Facebook A Black Hole For Personal Info

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times has an article on how Facebook is so sticky it is nearly impossible to get loose. While the Web site offers users the option to deactivate their accounts, Facebook servers keep copies of the information in those accounts indefinitely. Many users who have contacted Facebook to request that their accounts be deleted have not succeeded in erasing their records from the network. 'It's like the Hotel California,' said Nipon Das, a user who tried unsuccessfully to delete his account. 'You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.' It took Mr. Das two months and several e-mail exchanges with Facebook's customer service representatives to erase most of his information from the site, which finally occurred after he sent an e-mail threatening legal action. But even after that, a reporter was able to find Mr. Das's empty profile on Facebook and successfully sent him an e-mail message through the network. Facebook's quiet archiving of information from deactivated accounts has increased concerns about the network's potential abuse of private data, especially in the wake of its fumbled Beacon advertising feature."

Easy Solution

When you want to leave, start adding bogus data. Friend people you don't know. Change the bio data. Tag yourself in pictures you aren't in. Basically, generate random activity. Defriend your actual friends. Change your name. After a time, it becomes very difficult to determine what is real and what is fake.

Re:Easy Solution

Yes, so now my would-have-been boss thinks that actually I'm a 15 year old girl who does not know when to use CaPiTaL lEtTeRs.

Re:Easy Solution

The definition of "easy" seems to have changed since last I checked.

Re:Easy Solution

When you want to leave, start adding bogus data. Friend people you don't know. Change the bio data. Tag yourself in pictures you aren't in.

Leaving Facebook sounds a lot like what I did when I joined Facebook.

Facebook Terms of Service

The Facebook Terms of Service can be found here [facebook.com].

Here is an interesting excerpt:

When you post User Content to the Site, you authorize and direct us to make such copies thereof as we deem necessary in order to facilitate the posting and storage of the User Content on the Site. By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

Here's the rub:

You may remove your from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content.

The legal question here is: what is the definition of an "archive", as the term is used by Facebook?

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

Quoted from the parent of my original post:

If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire

So in fact the license expires as soon as you remove the content. From reading some of the other posts here, it seems that Facebook tries to make a difference between "removing" material and "deactivating" material. I guess if all you do is "deactivate" you account, you're technically not removing it and thus Facebook retains its license, so one must remove their material. If Facebook then retains that information, I would say they are then in violate of copyright.

hating facebook

I'm really starting to hate facebook. Friends have posted photos I want to see, other friends have commented on those photos and I want to read them. But I don't see any notifications on my main news feed about any of this. But I get tons of crap about vampires and I seem to get notified about people I don't know becoming friends with people I hardly know.

Can someone suggest a cleaner, more useful alternative to facebook that I can try and talk all my friends into joining?

Re:hating facebook

Here's the best one for all your local friends to join: The Pub. It's great, you get to talk to each other face to face! I joined this group when I was about 15, and I've enjoyed it ever since. Only real friends join my group and we can buy each other REAL drinks.

If you like you can write on the wall, but I don't think the publican will be too happy.

And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

Oh, that's right...you cant't [slashdot.org].

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

Funny in this context? Yes. Seriously though, Slashdot has a lot less information about its users than Facebook. You don't have real names, or pictures with people's real names, or graphs of who knows who and when they met, or anything to that effect on Slashdot. Using my Slashdot account or posting history, I'd be impressed if you could figure out where I live or go to school to within less than 300 miles; compare with Facebook, which has my real name and the name and location of my school.

Not to be a fanboy.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

and how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

Who'd want to?

What a business model

I'm pretty impressed with their business model. To get the most out of a social network, you have to plug in as much data about yourself as possible, which point Facebook can turn around and either sell that information sell to advertisers, or use it to advertise to you directly. Even if you realize what's going on, you can't leave without feeling socially ostracized. And finally, even if you get past that, they won't delete your stuff anyway.

Really, the only thing you can do to throw a wrench in the works is to falsify the entire contents of your profile. It would be very interesting to see if you could use that to influence the behavior of advertisers. For example, I wonder what would happen if every account suddenly added "Cowboy Neal" to the Interests field. Facebook bombing, anyone?

Kicked out?

The worst part is that if you are permanently banned from the site, they still keep all your data on their servers. That is as low as they can get, because once banned a user cannot come back to delete their personal info, as they could if they voluntarily leave. The only real answer is to simply not use Facebook, at all. Flood it with false information to mask the real info., and then leave and never look back.

FINALLY!

Finally, someone semi-credible has done a story about this. It's really about time. I've done just about everything to rid myself of their evil clutchs, but I have to go through thousands of records myself and delete everything. It would take an entire day to totally rid myself of facebook, and truth be told, I know my info would still be stored somewhere. When I wanted out of MySpace, I went in and pushed a button that said "delete account". If Facebook would just give me access to their databases, I'm sure I can get rid of my information in 10 minutes... and probably just about everything else. One word - EVIL.

I closed my account and get nagged all the time

I deactivated my account a few years ago, once Facebook opened to high schools and (more recently) the general public. I never used it anyway, and it was turning into an annoyance.

After deactivating the account, I saw that a lot of my information is still retained, and I'm CONSTANTLY getting e-mails from facebook saying "so and so wants to be your friend! reactivate your account!" and also messages from "Facebook" on AIM saying essentially the same.

I really wish that they took the hint "If someone deactivates their account, odds are they want to stop being involved in the site"

Shocking, just shocking

You mean that if I upload all kinds of personal information and data to a third party's web servers that I have no direct or even indirect control over, I might have trouble later removing that info at my whim?

Seriously, even if Facebook did have a motivation for fully scrubbing users data when asked, I would think just Facebook employee incompetence would result in a certain percentage of information being left. And from Facebook's perspective, how many times do you think they have to deal with a user wanting everything they ever posted/uploaded gone forever one week, then wanting it all back and restored perfectly the next?

If you don't want it in the public realm, don't upload it/post it. Simple as that.

Take it easy

Is it True?
All Night Long I was worried about this. Is my privacy Already Gone? It made me feel like a Certain Kind of Fool to think that I had put my personal data on a site that would Take It To The Limit in terms of giving away info about me. The Outlaw Man that runs Facebook has erased my Peaceful Easy Feeling. In The Long Run, After the Thrill is Gone, Facebook will learn. Untill then, I won't Get Over It and I Can't Tell You Why.

I've run out of Eagle's songs now....

Not just in facebooks servers

Your data isn't just in Facebook's servers, but also potentially those of all the third part apps you've ever added to your profile. I've stripped out all my personal info so my profile is bare bones... but it's kinda too late since I had it in there before.

Not just personal data, but your relationship to all your friends list. If you 'went to school with' so and so, then it's easy to find out what school you went to based on what school your friend went to. If you have cousins on there... odds are one of them has a last name the same as your mother's maiden name. Yeah... the 'how do you know this person' info is bad too.

One encyclopedia for me

Facebook is a black hole, yet facebook leaks information to the outside. Thanks, Hawking!

Re:The one lesson

...don't let anyone take naked photos of you, 'cuz they *will* end up online, and it will be *hilarious*.

I was hoping for "awe inspiring", or at least "impressive". Way to dent a guy's ego...

Re:It's been done

Here's what you must do to get rid of your account, THEN mail Facebook and ask for complete removal:

        1. Delete your photo
        2. Delete Comments and messages you wrote
        3. Delete your friends from your friends list.
        4. Leave all your networks and groups you have joined.
        5. Delete all your photo albums.

Sounds like an awful lot of work. Here's an alternate suggestion...also a bit of work, but definitely more enjoyable.

From the Facebook Terms of Service:

In addition, you agree not to use the Service or the Site to:

        * harvest or collect email addresses or other contact information of other users from the Service or the Site by electronic or other means for the purposes of sending unsolicited emails or other unsolicited communications;
        * use the Service or the Site in any unlawful manner or in any other manner that could damage, disable, overburden or impair the Site;
        * use automated scripts to collect information from or otherwise interact with the Service or the Site;
        * upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available any content that we deem to be harmful, threatening, unlawful, defamatory, infringing, abusive, inflammatory, harassing, vulgar, obscene, fraudulent, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
        * upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available any videos other than those of a personal nature that: (i) are of you or your friends, (ii) are taken by you or your friends, or (iii) are original art or animation created by you or your friends;
        * register for more than one User account, register for a User account on behalf of an individual other than yourself, or register for a User account on behalf of any group or entity;
        * impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent yourself, your age or your affiliation with any person or entity;
        * upload, post, transmit, share or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, solicitations, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;
        * upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make publicly available on the Site any private information of any third party, including, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, Social Security numbers and credit card numbers;
        * solicit personal information from anyone under 18 or solicit passwords or personally identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes;
        * upload, post, transmit, share or otherwise make available any material that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;
        * intimidate or harass another;
        * upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law;
        * use or attempt to use another's account, service or system without authorization from the Company, or create a false identity on the Service or the Site.
        * upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that, in the sole judgment of Company, is objectionable or which restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Site, or which may expose Company or its users to any harm or liability of any type.

The solution is simple. While being careful to stop short of outright illegality, violate as many of these prohibitions as possible, as often as you can manage it. Then send abusive email to the Facebook sysadmins, mocking them for their inability to stop you. Account deletion should follow rather quickly. ^_^

Re:It's been done

ah, yes... the goatse technique...

Re:New Idea

Funny, but also a bit scary, as just this morning I read about this: [bbc.co.uk]

Tech giants Microsoft, IBM, Google and Yahoo have joined the board of the Open ID Foundation which aims to streamline login systems across the web.

The Foundation wants to bring about a system that could mean one ID acts as a guarantor of a person's identity across all the sites they have signed up for.

Oh good, so I only have to have one online identity compromised in order for them all to be compromised. I hope it's not just us slashdotters who think this is a bad idea.

Re:Good

If you haven't read "The Light of Other Days" by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter, I suggest you do. It might become your new catechism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days [wikipedia.org]