Facebook Photos Land Eden Prairie Kids in Trouble

slim-t writes "The Star Tribune is reporting that students have been disciplined for photos of them on Facebook. 'Eden Prairie High School administrators have reprimanded more than 100 students and suspended some from sports and other extracurricular activities after obtaining Facebook photos of students partying, several students said Tuesday.' Is the school right to do this? My opinion is that the students should know not to post pictures of yourself breaking the law." I'd just like to know what all those administrators are doing cruising Facebook pages looking at the students in their school.

Hah.

"I'd just like to know what all those administrators are doing cruising Facebook pages looking at the students in their school."

Looking for delectable jailbait, of course.

Re:Hah. [[ Supposedly pics were delivered

Supposedly the pics were delivered on a CD (maybe a DVD) to school administrators. The person who delivered it is either unknown or not being identified. (disclosure/source: My sister-in-law attends EPHS. I'm anonymous for her sake.)

Re:Hah.

> I'd just like to know what all those administrators are doing cruising Facebook pages looking at the students in their school.

Masturbating, of course. The internet means you don't have to wait for the goddamn yearbook any more!

Re:Hah.

I know you're joking, but I've seen it happen. I worked at a high school for a while and we monitored all traffic looking for keywords. Also, any AIM traffic was logged, and any traffic to/from myspace was logged. We caught a bunch of kids doing some really stupid shit because they updated their myspace pages from school. I believe some of them lost scholarships over it. Oops.

Isn't it easy?

I don;t use Facebook, but don't they have a feature to group people by what school they attend? An administrator would just have to sign up for his own school then just browse profiles while filling out detention slips.

Maybe it will be a good lesson to these idiots not to document their wrong-doing.

Re:Isn't it easy?

I wouldn't necessarily be too keen about my own child drinking under age, but I wouldn't be at all happy about his invasion of privacy either - I'd consider that stalking.

If the pictures are posted to a profile with public access, what privacy is there to invade? You can't put these pictures up on display, then get upset that people see them.

My wife is a high school teacher...

She scans her students myspace pages all the time. It's pretty incredible what kind of information they put up.

She doesn't do it because she's out to get them, though. If she learned that a student was smoking weed at a weekend party, it's not like she'd call the cops on them. I think she does it just to get a better sense of who her students are as individuals, and can then better tailor her instructions to each individual.

Let's say Katie is really emotional, and loves to answer questions in class. However, Katie has just gone through a rough breakup with her longtime boyfriend (we learn over myspace)... My wife would be a bit more understanding about why Katie is acting so depressed.

Or, she may learn that a student routinely smokes pot in the bathroom every morning before class. She might pay extra attention to that student, and if she smells pot on the kid while he's in class, she can certainly get the administration involved.

Or kids might comment about a stolen test. Or how they hacked into the computers and changed grades. It's crazy what they'll write about.

The point is, of course, don't put up information that you don't want your boss, teacher/SO/parents/whoever to read.

Posting anonymously for hopefully obvious reasons. :)

Re:My wife is a high school teacher...

Flamebait. You're obviously not a teacher or any type of leader/instructor so I'll just assume you're ignorant and tell you why it is important to know about student's lives.

First, this isn't just a good idea for a teacher... if you want to communicate with someone... be it as a Supervisor, Boss, Teacher... understanding that person as an individual will greatly help you communicate with them and create a rapport that will allow them to trust you as well. As for teaching... it is an incredibly intimate subject, everyone learns differently and you play to each person's strengths and weaknesses to help them learn best. The young boy who loves art might learn from hands on activities more than the girl who sits with her nose in a book and would rather just do rote worksheets to learn.

One of the hardest jobs I ever held was a substitute teacher. As a sub you rarely make those connections with students and you are just a person in the room covering for the teacher... who knows them best. You don't know the kid who lives in a motel room because they are too poor to afford an apartment... and how that might affect his learning. No, I'm sorry, but from my experience you are completely wrong... in fact Schools probably need more of the OPPOSITE... more teachers need to understand their students and their backgrounds. Public Education has its problems that need repair... but needing more teachers detached from their student's personal lives is NOT one of them.

Bizarre

Being Swedish I find your alcohol policy absolutely bizarre. Schools policing students about what they do in their spare time? If a teacher did that over here they would probably get into legal difficulties as a result of it... Heck, my physics department has a student run pub in the basement and one of my lecturers even gave the students some time to advertise it. Despite of this ( or maybe because of ) we have a lower rate of alcohol induced diseases and a lower alcohol related crime rate.

I'm guessing this is the consequence of some "traditional" political opinions, much like Sweden insisting on having a state monopoly on alcohol, despite it being quite clearly demonstrated that it does nothing to prevent minors from obtaining it ( which is pretty much the argument in favor ).

Re:Bizarre

Almost every single USA law is based on Puritan ideals that started a long time ago. WE firmly believe that restricting people and controlling them is for their own good. Restrict alcohol, hell we even banned it for a few years for incredibly stupid reasons. We are doing the same now for drugs and sex and anything else deemed to be "unholy" or "bad" based on old Puritan ideals from over 300 years ago.

It's the root of our obesity, and almost every other problem that the rest of the world seems to not have.

Problem is , today you are called a nut for questioning the puritanical ideals.

The other problem is the whole point of the article shines light on a bigger problem.. Our children are incredibly stupid. They do things they know are wrong and will get them in trouble if their parents or officials find out about it, and then they publish it with incredible detail in a public forum and then SIGN IT!

The current crop of children here are incredibly stupid.... I blame the use of Corn syrup.

Re:Bizarre

I believe this is real reason for prohibition,

"... John D. Rockefeller was not concerned with family dynamics in the working classes. But he was influential in changing the goals of the movement from temperance to prohibition. As we know, his contribution to the outlawing of the production and sale of alcohol was successful. Of course, Rockefeller and the oil companies reaped tremendous profits as a result. Remember that the period covered by the 18th Amendment (1919-1933) coincided with the huge rise in the sale and operation of automobiles. America was on the move, and all of these cars were now operated solely on gasoline. By the time that the 21st Amendment was passed, ending the prohibition of alcohol, the standard was already set and worked completely in the favor of the Rockefeller family" (http://dgrim.blogspot.com/2007/06/great-scheme-alcohol-based-fuels-ford.html)

Rockefeller the leader of Standard Oil wanted to stop the public (mostly farmers at the time) from producing their own alcohol which was widely used as a fuel for cars and farm equipment. This is a pattern to manipulate public opinion and use the government as an enforcement tool to benefit the rich and powerful. See Randolf Hurst, DuPont and hemp prohibition.

Your rights do not apply at School

Personally, at my school, they have a policy that if you violate a policy outside of school grounds within sight of a school official, or a school official is latter reported of the policy you broke, you will be reprimanded as if you were on school premise. People don't seem to remember that youth are still citizens, and are granted all the rights of the constitution. Schools extend and deploy their power in scary ways, forever under the umbrella "For the Children."

Revenge of the nerds

You say you're a nerd who is picked on by the popular jocks. Do I have a plan for you!

1) Take a buddy nerd and sneak into a party where your victim will be (since you're a nerd you obviously weren't invited)
2) Hand the jock a beer, have your friend snap a picture during that second he's holding it (but before you're being pounded with it)
3) Post picture to Facebook using a fake account
4) Wait for jock to be suspended

I'm still trying to figure out how to fit "Profit!" into there as well. Maybe blackmail?

All these "well you shouldn't have posted the picture" posts are forgetting the very common case where someone snaps pictures of a bunch of people and posts them all onto Facebook. It's amazing how fast the camera phones can go off if you do something stupid even for a second at a party.

Student need a bill of rights

I can attest that student rights are frequently struck down in the name of In Loco Parentis. IMO, if it doesn't happen at school or occur while traveling to/from thereof, the school should not have the right to discipline those actions. Having spent K-12 in Fairfax County Public Schools (VA), I endured the most strict, archaic and otherwise bass-ackward rules outside of private schools. Examples:

• A fellow fourth grade student was caught possessing a beeper at school. FCPS believed the only reason anyone would possess a beeper would be to facilitate selling drugs. The student was expelled. His mother had given him the beeper the previous day so he would know when she was ready to pick him up from soccer practice. FCPS kept the ban on cell phones and beepers until 9/11, but not before threatening to suspend students who were trying to contact parents who worked in the Pentagon that day.
• A girl at my middle school was caught with a can of pepper spray. Her parents had given her the mace because she lived less than one mile from the school (FCPS does not provide transportation to students less than 1 mi from school) and had to walk through a rough neighborhood each day. She was suspended.
• My school once let out early and had a student fair on the soccer field. Attendance on the field was not mandatory, but students could not leave school grounds without a note from a parent. The administration was so concerned with our attendance that every student who left early had their car fully searched to make sure they weren't taking home other students.

Unfortunately, FCPS holds all bargaining chips before students even enroll. They force each student sign a "Student Responsibilities and Rights" document essentially stating you understand FCPS has the right to deal with you any way they please should you screw up. If you don't sign it, they won't give you a locker, a parking spot, nor allow you to participate in after school activities.

If school administrators stumble upon pictures of a student doing something illegal, but not while at school, they should report it to the police, and the buck stops there. If a student's "extra-cirricular" activities don't interfere with school, then schools shouldn't interfere with them.

My Two Cents

When I was a teenager, I had a friend who saw the school principal at the grocery store. After making eye contact, he gave him the middle finger. The principal was understandably irate and the following Monday suspended him.

When his parents found out, they called the principal and made it abundantly clear that he was far, far outside his bounds and pushed until the school rescinded the suspension. Don't think he didn't suffer consequences, they were just delivered by his parents whose duty it is to do so outside of school.

The duty of school officials is to discipline and teach students within the school environment. From 8-3 or on school grounds, that's it. Period. The minute the child leaves school grounds, he's under the purview of the law and his guardians. The second school officials leave the school grounds, they're just average folks. No legitimate power over and above any other schmo.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

Also, if the students are breaking the law outside of school hours, isn't that a matter for the police and not the school?

This is the crux of the matter. Yes, those kids are idiots for posting evidence of illegal behavior for all to see. But the administrators have no jurisdiction over what goes on outside of school. He should have reported these pictures to the police, if anything.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

You're all missing the point. The reason the school administrators are punishing the kids instead of reporting them to the police is to avoid giving (or adding to) the kids' criminal records. Kids do all kinds of things and sometimes these things are illegal. In this case, these kids may have been doing something illegal. The administrators are trying to punish the kids so they learn not to do it again.

What if your parents caught you doing something illegal? Should they not punish you? Should they instead go straight to the police and turn you in? What kind of Gestapo bullcrap is that? Do you really want to live in a police state where you can't even confide in your own parents?

Consider the options. "You take the punishment we are dishing out or we turn these photos over to the police. Which do you prefer?" Most kids will take the school's punishment and they would be right and smart to do so. The school may or may not be dishing out appropriate punishment and that needs to be figured out. But they are at least trying to do the best thing for these kids and that is to discipline the kids without the extreme of getting the police involved.

There will be some who decide to not post their photos on facebook/myspace/etc... But most will still take pictures and that's still a liability. The school wants them to just not do these things in the first place. While they can't control people like that, they can influence and that's exactly what they are trying to do and that is the whole damn point of punishment.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

he reason the school administrators are punishing the kids instead of reporting them to the police is to avoid giving (or adding to) the kids' criminal records.

Incorrect. Guess what the police would do if they obtained pics of these underaged kids drinking? Absolutely nothing, because it would be impossible to prove that what's in those containers is alcohol.

As others have said, this all has to do with one thing: power. It's a lot easier to control kids than it is to teach them, so that's what schools do.

Fucking pathetic.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

The lesson is not to stop "wrong" behavior. The lesson is not to get caught.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

Kids have no privacy.

None whatsoever?

Note to administration: warrantless-wiretap the children to get the dirt on their parents.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

From the Minnesota State Legislature: [ros.leg.mn]

340A.503 PERSONS UNDER 21; ILLEGAL ACTS.
Subd. 3. Possession. It is unlawful for a person under the age of 21 years to possess any
alcoholic beverage with the intent to consume it at a place other than the household of the person's
parent or guardian. Possession at a place other than the household of the parent or guardian creates
a rebuttable presumption of intent to consume it at a place other than the household of the parent
or guardian. This presumption may be rebutted by a preponderance of the evidence.

Re:Don't they have anything better to do?

In the USA the drinking laws vary on a per-state basis. In all of them it is illegal to buy alcohol to under the age of 21. In some states it is illegal to drink under the age of 21, even in the privacy of your own home supervised by your parents (although this is rarely enforced).

Here in the UK you are not allowed to buy alcohol until you are 18 but you are allowed to drink on private property from the age of 5.

Re:Won't somebody think of the children?

Yes Helen, they ARE thinking of the children.

WHAT they're thinking of the children, though, you probably don't want to know.

Re:Rights not online

Kids taking pictures of themselves demonstrating that they aren't mature enough to drink responsibly...

How is that? According to the article one kid was just holding a drink. Another was standing behind a bar. The article makes no mention of any crazy antics. You're making that assumption because they're young and got in trouble.

The problem here is the system, not the students.

Re:Rights not online

21? What country is this? Iran?

Surely you're not telling me the legal drinking age in the US is 21? Hell.. I the worst hangover of my life was the day of my 16th birthday when I could finally drink legally (everyone in this country drinks illegally from about 14). The second worst hangover was at the school party that year where they'd thoughtfully provided free drinks..

You'll never learn to drink responsibly unless you've drunk irresponsibly a few times when you're younger. OTOH I was drinking wine with meals at 7 years old, so was kinda used to it by then.