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WordPress 2.3 Does Not Spy On Users [UPDATED]
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:37 AM
from the if-you-don't-like-it-fork-it dept.
from the if-you-don't-like-it-fork-it dept.
Marilyn Miller writes "Popular open-source blogging engine WordPress has been upgraded to 2.3 — with some unexpected nasties in the mix. As of version 2.3, WordPress now periodically (every 12 hours) sends personally identifying information (blog name & URI) to the mothership, along with an alarming amount of information including $_SERVER dumps, a list of installed plugins, and your current PHP/MySQL settings. Most unfortunately, it does not provide any way of disabling this functionality, and WordPress does not have any privacy policy protecting this information. In a thread about the issue, lead developer Matt Mullenweg defends his actions and staunchly refuses to add an opt-in interface, telling users to 'fork WordPress' if they aren't willing to put up with this behavior." Update: 09/25 17:52 GMT by KD : This article is misleading enough to be called "just wrong." Matt Mullenweg writes: "As mentioned in our release announcement, the update notification sends your blog URL, plugins, and version info when it checks api.wordpress.org for new and compatible updates. It does not include $_SERVER dumps, or any settings beyond version numbers (for checking compatibility), or your blog name, or your credit card number. We do provide a way of disabling this feature; in fact I link to one of the plugins in the release announcement and in my original response to Morty's thread."
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WordPress 2.3 Does Not Spy On Users [UPDATED]
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Surprised/ (Score:2)
(http://wellhellosailor.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday November 08, @03:23PM)
Re:Surprised/ (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Surprised/ (Score:5, Informative)
(http://literalbarrage.org/blog)
disable WordPress version check [wordpress.org] and disable plugin version check [wordpress.org], both of which were mentioned by Matt in the thread above.
Suggestion (Score:5, Funny)
Fork (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/~Spy+der+Mann/journal/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 07, @12:32PM)
Alternatives, in that case? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/~Spy+der+Mann/journal/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 07, @12:32PM)
Anyway, i googled and found this link:
http://www.mitchelaneous.com/2007/09/19/9-wordpress-alternatives/ [mitchelaneous.com]
Now, my question is - how secure are they for you, sethawoolley? Which one would you choose?
This thread would be longer... (Score:5, Funny)
fork (Score:3, Interesting)
Consider it done.
I nominate the fork name to be: (Score:5, Funny)
well (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://thepeckfamily.us/ | Last Journal: Thursday November 08, @11:19AM)
and wordpress isn't that complicated that this is something that no one but the most hard core will do. tons of wordpress users regularly go in and tweak it for their own uses. i haven't moved to this new versions with my site yet - i always wait a bit for things to shake out, and stuff like this is why. when i do upgrade, i'll just fix my install.
Guys, the information is all really essential... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/)
The blog's URL
A list of all plugins and versions
A list of the $_SERVER env variables
How is this information not necessary for a robust autoupdating/autonotifying infrastructure? Since the plugns are the source of so many vulnerabilities, you need to know their versions etc.
Since so much incompatibility may be caused by funky $_SERVER variables, you need to know their contents.
And the blog URL tells you who it is.
Windows Update has to send far MORE intrusive information.
Re:Guys, the information is all really essential.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pyblosxom (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://commandline.org.uk/ | Last Journal: Wednesday May 30, @05:49AM)
- its really light and fast
- I can edit posts in a text editor rather than a web based interface
- its in Python and very easy to customise
- theming far simpler, just rip your HTML template into a header and footer, rather than having to make 12 files with Wordpress.
Plug over... Move along...
That product is doomed (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, really, WTF. They might as well have named it slakdfjalskdjflaskjdf!
Basically, go fork ourselves? (Score:1, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
My thought is that though information wants to be free, my information wants to be more private, so any software that blatantly violates my privacy rights tends to not get or stay installed on my workstation.
Who cares? (Score:1)
Tempest in a teapot.
Breathless Hyperbole. (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.grump.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday January 22 2002, @10:57PM)
Matt Mullenweg is being very reasonable and reasoned in dealing with a small but vocal groups paranoia. In the same breath that he mentioned forking Wordpress, he also mentioned that another option is using a plugin that disables this behavior.
The submitter should be ashamed.
Re:Breathless Hyperbole. (Score:4, Insightful)
It should be easy to turn on and off.
It should default to off.
It can ask one time during the upgrade, or first login after the upgrade, to be turned on, with an explanation of what it does and why he thinks it can be turned on.
There is no good reason the above cannot or should not be accomodated.
Re:Breathless Hyperbole. (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't this the point of FOSS? (Score:4, Insightful)
OTOH, the idea of using FOSS (good!) as a venue for spyware (bad!) is enough to make a guy's head explode...
What Matt wrote (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What Matt wrote (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks for your flamebait kdawson, really mature and appreciated.
WTF.
Rip out the code? (Score:2)
Fork we shall (Score:3, Informative)
The second way that the open source model has won, is that users who disagree with the direction the application is heading in can now fork. In fact, the head developer of the project suggests it. I'm pretty confident that this will happen and happen fast. Given that people "fork" (some say hack/crack) closed source software all the time to leave out all of the "evil" modules (See Kazaa > Kazaa Lite > Kazaa Lite K++; and don't forget cracked Windows XP) forking an open source project to leave out all of the "evil" modules should be pretty easy. I'm no developer, but I could see this being as simple as taking the original source, commenting out/removing the bad stuff, and then redistributing.
This is SENSATIONALISM (not Sparta) (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://gentoogeek.net/)
As to what the summary refers to, where Matt suggests a person fork Wordpress:
Again, he gives the solution to the original poster's complaint (Moritz 'Morty' Strube). If this Moritz is really concerned, he can fork and remove the new code that transmits this information - or if he isn't too concerned, just install the plugins matt suggested.
This is making something out of nothing. Definitely nothing to see here, please move along.
Fork Them! (Score:1)
B-)
Why is this even an issue? (Score:2)
(http://www.angelfire.com/il/macroman | Last Journal: Friday March 30 2007, @07:17PM)
You have the source code, right?
If you don't like the way the software behaves, you can change it. This is one of the fundamental freedoms the FSF endorses. In fact, I would say this is a perfect example of the open source model in action:
The sad thing is that Microsoft and other proprietary vendors have been so successful at convincing the general public that they should be at the vendor's mercy when it comes to bug fixes and feature requests that even Open Source users have come to believe the software originator's blessing is required.
Un-warp your brains. Experience freedom. Fork it if you don't like it, and let the people decide which version they like better.
But you're little? (Score:1)
Ironically, I was considering global site licenses of this product for our public relations agency. Thanks for dropping out of the running!
Where did he say to just go fork?! (Score:5, Insightful)
So - did I miss something, or did everyone else not RTFA?
The Actual Quote (Score:2, Informative)
(http://www.michaelkpate.com/)
> If you don't trust wordpress.org, I suggest you do one of the following:
> 1. Use different software.
> 2. Fork WordPress.
> 3. Install one of the aforementioned plugins.
Hey don't worry, Barry will protect you! (Score:1)
(http://www.televisio...com/show.cgi?show=44)
Or as the author of WordPress puts in TFA:
"In 2 years of running WordPress.com and Akismet, two extraordinarily
high-visibility targets, there has never been a problem on a server
Barry set up."
Uh, right.
Don't worry (Score:4, Funny)
So... As a rule spying on users is always a security concern =P (name it WordPress or Windows Update).
Fork This! (Score:2)
I think I'd rather "fork" him -- right in a tender spot.
It's bad enough to do it in the first place.
It's worse to do it in secret. (Did he really think it wouldn't be discovered?)
It's worst of all to actually defend it afterwards. (Who does the think he is? Dan Rather?)
You can't program people (Score:2)
(http://technical-writing.dionysius.com/ | Last Journal: Monday November 05, @03:35PM)
In the case of WordPress, it's advantageous for them to be able to get diagnostic and statistical information. They will learn more about their users's needs, and will be able to see where bugs crop up and eliminate them more quickly. I have no problem with people I trust having this kind of information about my servers, especially if I trust them to keep it securely. But I don't know the WordPress team, so it could be a problem.
There are no solutions you can implement from the couch for this issue. People keep looking for from the couch solutions like "no one should retain any information about us" or "trust the government, no more 911s." But these are not realistic answers. You will have to trust some leader and there will always be both good and bad leaders, and the only way to remove the bad ones is with a sword. Oh well. Life is struggle, get used to it.
Fork (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Tuesday November 06, @08:12PM)
If you can't wait for a Fork, there's a nice package called Textpattern [textpattern.com] that I used to use. It's kinda like WordPress. I liked it. Give it a spin and see if it works for you. :D (End shameless plug for favorite php app).
I'm too sexy for... a privacy policy. (Score:1)
(http://www.secure-computing.net/)
Google Cloaking (Score:5, Informative)
(http://pyile.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 19 2006, @01:33PM)
Summary Is A Troll (Score:5, Informative)
Actually RTFA Matt's reasoning gives the opposite impression of the summary. Fork the submitter and Kdawson for greenlighting this.
--
BMO
Well that makes it easy for me (Score:2)
Privacy?! (Score:2)
I can understand the complaints about how this may be an additional security risk, or at least would make an assholes job a bit easier if they hacked that central WP database. What I find somewhat irritating is that some people have voiced privacy concerns over this. I was under the impression that if you're running a blog, it means you're one of those Web 2.0 exhibitionists that tell everyone in the whole wide world all their daily activities in embarrassing detail anyway. Am I missing something?
A little php snippet (Score:2)
(http://www.webgeekworld.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 27 2006, @07:47AM)
wouldnt be too long until someone produces a 'fix'.
I'm glad Matt updated us on this... (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.xjowners.com/ | Last Journal: Friday October 12, @12:15PM)
Up here, we (being the government) can't buy any software package that stores the data in the USA. I can only imagine the tens of millions of lost dollars in contracts because of the Patriot Act. I would of hate to have added Matt's awesome editor to that list. Rock on Matt!
How does this affect WPmu? And hosted sites.... (Score:2)
(http://www.fiestyturtles.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 23, @09:07PM)
Glad to see the update BUT... (Score:1)
I read the forum posts and still disagree (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Monday February 27 2006, @03:52PM)
Yes Sir (Score:2)
Ok easy enough :) curling old source now.
OpenPress (Score:1)
(http://jaroche.wordpress.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday September 19, @11:56PM)
it's not that hard to write your own blogtool (Score:2)
(http://www.karastathis.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 05 2005, @07:51PM)
Moderate kdawson -1 Troll (Score:1)
kdawson has a penchant for posting 'stories' linking to shady blog postings, archived emails and usenet messages that tend to be little more than flamebait. If he's got anything going for him, he doesn't discriminate who he spreads FUD against.
For extra enjoyment when you read slashdot, try to pick out which stories have been posted by kdawson without peeking at who it was. It's a very easy game.
Why send, instead of retrieve? (Score:2)
honourable goal, but why exactly does WP need to *send*
any data in order to do this? Wouldn't it be enough to
*retrieve* a text file containing the latest version of
everything, compare it to what it's running on and inform
the user accordingly?
In this particular case, concern for security is a cheap
excuse for invading privacy and actually causing a security
problem.
Forking hell (Score:1)
Shut up, it's open source! (Score:1)
(http://fnarg.com/)
If someone's so darn concerned about the information in $_SERVER, then they should just grep the source and rip out the offending code.
And if they don't know how, then they should shut the hell up about $_SERVER. In the end, it's really not a huge deal, nothing an attacker couldn't figure out on their own in about ten seconds with readily available scripts.
Re:Which is why... (Score:1)
Re:There's no money in it ... (Score:1)
(http://obsessivemathsfreak.org/ | Last Journal: Friday June 09 2006, @08:15PM)
I recently installed Wordpress 2.2.3 on a site server. I'm now going to have to consider uninstalling it. Even though 2.3 is the only version confirmed as effected, as of now, the entire Wordpress name is justifiably tainted. I can't really allow a piece of software on the server to send out a deluge of sensitive information to a third party server. It's asking for trouble.
Re:Welll, I'll be... (Score:1)
Re:good! (Score:2)
(http://skippus.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday June 19 2005, @07:25AM)
Okay, I'll bite. Which, pray tell, "real language" would be better?
Re:YAY! This saves me work. (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.devnetwork.net/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 26 2002, @08:43AM)
Thank you Mr. Did-Not-Read-The-Fscking-Article.
Re:YAY! This saves me work. (Score:2)
http://blog.plasticmind.com/cms/why-you-should-upgrade-to-mt4/ [plasticmind.com]
Re:You get what you ask for. (Score:2)
(http://www.lepertheory.net/)
It's pretty much inevitable at this point. Lead developer looks like an ass because of an overblown headline on a site with over 100,000 visitors a day who are known for not reading the article, which is the only thing that shows that it's Slashdot that's screwed up. Somebody is going to fork it. Later, they'll realize they overreacted to an overreaction, but have a lame justification for their position and continue anyway, before eventually falling dead after pulling a few developers away from WP.
Re:YAY! This saves me work. (Score:1)
I thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/journal.pl?op=list&uid=911325 | Last Journal: Monday October 29, @02:52PM)
Try Serendipity (Score:2)
(http://judebert.com/)
But, if you want a blog with a central, auto-updating plugin repository, try Serendipity. [s9y.org] It uses Smarty for its templates, and has a very involved developer base. It's also light, fast, and security-conscious. It's largely compatible with Movable Type, too.
For the record, its auto-update feature downloads the list of available plugins, then lets the local installation decide what needs to be updated. No private information required.
Re:YAY! This saves me work. (Score:2)
(http://honeypot.net/ | Last Journal: Friday April 07 2006, @09:33AM)
Go with Drupal. Get all the blogging goodness plus photo albums, iGoogle-like portal pages (that support iGoogle plugins!) and pretty much anything else you could ever possible want in a personal site. See my link above for an example.
Re:Not first time Matt Mullenweg has been stubborn (Score:2)
(http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/ | Last Journal: Tuesday September 11, @05:30PM)
Um... not exactly. What you're probably thinking of is the time when he had keyword-spam "content" on hidden areas of wordpress.org. All WP blogs had, by default, a link back to wordpress.org, and that site (not anyone's own blog) had the hidden links to the spam.
Someone called him on it while he was on vacation, there was a huge controversy, Google de-listed them, and WordPress.org scrambled to take the links down from their site. When he got home, he pulled everything down and issued a public apology.