EU Commissioner Calls For Censorship of Web Search 212
An anonymous reader sends us a Reuters story on a statement yesterday by Franco Frattini, the EU Justice and Security commissioner, who believes that Internet searches for bomb-making instructions should be blocked across the European Union. The commissioner "intend[s] to carry out a clear exploring exercise with the private sector... on how it is possible to use technology to prevent people from using or searching dangerous words like bomb, kill, genocide or terrorism..."
Cannot read the article (Score:5, Insightful)
bomb, kill, genocide or terrorism [google.co.uk]
It got me the intended results, but if this is implemented how will I find the article in the future?
If I cannot search for terrorism, how will I know if I am safe?
Addition to this, note that they think we should not be able to useor search the words, so if something does unfortunately happen, how can we warn others?
"Theres a man in the back with a skimask on holding a complex exothermic chemical compound over there, run for your lives" ???
Re:Cannot read the article (Score:4, Funny)
Makes sense. I was thinking more of calling the police first on a phone, but I must be getting something wrong.
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"Theres a man in the back with a skimask on holding a complex exothermic chemical compound over there, run for your lives" ???
I don't agree... (Score:4, Insightful)
What if somebody needs to learn about terrorism for a paper or something like that.
Also... if any terrorist really wanted to make a bomb there are plenty of other ways to learn how to create one. I think this is just another attempt to have government closer to total control of the Internet. Maybe we will eventually see taxes on it in other ways. Maybe I'm going to far?
Re:I don't agree... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I don't agree... (Score:5, Insightful)
I want to thank the EU for reminding me again how censorship of ideas doesn't work, unless you actually have a human read the content, and even then...
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Also... if any terrorist really wanted to make a bomb there are plenty of other ways to learn how to create one. I think this is just another attempt to have government closer to total control of the Internet. Maybe we will eventually see taxes on it in other ways. Maybe I'm going to far?
Wait, not at all, collecting taxes on terrorism would be a great idea. Set them high enough to kill it dead.
I'm sure you could sell the idea to a politician, especially with the current crop we have in the "western" countries.
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Seriously, has this guy never heard the old adage: "Know your enemy so you may face them."?!?
Re:Cannot read the article (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that this has more to do with another old saying: "Knowledge is power."
If there's one thing a politician hates it's an informed public, because such public is not as thoroughly in his power as an ignorant one. That's why every story about "redesigning the Internet" makes me scared: the Internet happened because it managed to "sneak" into common usage behind the backs of powers-that-be, and if it gets redesigned now it gets tracking, surveillance and censorship built-in.
Don't forget, the Internet was originally built by US Government as their communication tool. It was built for military use and sure as Hell not meant for civilians. It is every politicians worst nightmare: a communication medium in which everyone can get their voice heard to the other side of the world. Enjoy it as long as you can, for it won't last.
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bomb, kill, genocide or terrorism
Wow. Your post is now 7th on the list of links in the search it linked to. Well done!
Franco? (Score:4, Funny)
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Chris Mattern
Good name for a facist. (Score:2)
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Crackhead (Score:2, Interesting)
Ever since Barosso and the Italians came in the EU Commission, the only thing they care to chime about are rules and legislation about civil liberty rights. Lastly they were in favor for a rating system that would ban violent video games, now this. I'd rather vote for the inclusion of Turkey than to vote for Italian commissioners.
Search (Score:5, Insightful)
Student doing research for school on the atom bomb or genocide for ww2 project
Some people are so stupid.
Re:Search (Score:5, Insightful)
How do people this dumb get appointed to such high office?
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C6H2(NO2)3CH3. (Score:5, Funny)
will they block slashdot now?
Re:C6H2(NO2)3CH3. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how stupid people in power are. Do they really think censoring that sort of information on the web will stop anyone who wants to build a bomb? My university chemistry textbook has plenty of instructions for things that can be used for terrorism.
The next step would have to be to stop teaching science and burn all science books. The dark ages were several centuries ago, maybe it's time for another one.
Re:C6H2(NO2)3CH3. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, of course they don't, that is not the real purpose of the exercise. Let me try to explain.
Suppose that you are a politician and you are being interviewed on the TV. The interviewer says "Minister, what steps is your government taking to stop terrorists acquiring bomb making instructions?". Now, you basically have two options:
If you try option 1, then 1% of the viewers will understand the technical impossibility and agree with you, whilst the other 99% will get the vague impression that you are soft on terrorism or, at best, hear a strange buzzing noise. With option 2, OTOH, 1% of viewers will be outraged by such a pointless and stupid idea, whilst the rest will get the impression that you are tough on terrorists.
Now, you are a smart politician and wish to be re-elected. Which one are you going to choose?
Of course, you know full well that in a few years time you will get a question like "Minister, in the recent terrorism trial it was revealed that the terrorists obtained their bomb instructions from the internet. I thought that you had introduced legislation to prevent this?", but fortunately there are lots of ways out of this:
One flaw in your story.... (Score:2)
B) anyone who asks your dumb questions is really a CIA/DHS stooge planning the next STASSI
C) I would answer by saying, all this stuff has been invented EONS ago, nothing is secret or hard to do, you cannot go back to 5000BC. Info is useless anyway without materials.
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I mean, if only people were a little more honest and open about things, the world would be a better place (not to mention a little less stupid).
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the answer to 2 is in fact
2. Say, "We intend to carry out a clear exploring exercise to see if we can introduce legislation to force ISPs to block access to such reprehensible material"
"We intend to" isn't we are
Then the exercise will say "it's impossible really"
And all will be over.
In the meantime we have Slashdotters frothing like the law has already passed.
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My high-school O-Grade Chemistry textbooks had plenty of instructions for such things, and we had teachers that encouraged us to make them. One of the few things I can still remember from all those years ago is how to make mustard gas...
Re:C6H2(NO2)3CH3. (Score:4, Interesting)
2. Hard to purify. The isomers really screw up the quality of the product and getting rid of them in non-industrial environment is cumbersome. The unpurified product is unstable and dangerous to handle.
3. Harder to produce than a number of higher power explosives (Hexogen aka T4 comes to mind).
4. Even if they restrict the search on the Internet any University library will contain everything needed for the purpose and any chemistry major can give it to you anyway as most of these are standard reactions
5. The chap is a "Prodotti di Berlusconi" (I apologise for my bad Italian). Idiots begat more idiots. Ignore and move along.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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What about other languages? (Score:4, Insightful)
And what if someone is searching for the title of a Monty Python movie where they used, for example, Holy hand grenades? Or a scene from a novel, or a TV show?
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Re:What about other languages? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Genocide (Score:2)
Say
Page rank to the rescue! (Score:2)
That's easy, they'll only block the ones that www.alqaeda.org link to.
Xix.
What about searching for memes? (Score:2)
Somebody set up us the bomb!
And HOW (Score:2)
Next up... (Score:3, Insightful)
burying head in the sand? (Score:2)
like they tried to ban prOn err... *cough* porn?
Right!
Erosion of civil liberties IS terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
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Because we know thought police work...right? (Score:2)
The waste of time and money on this is just disheartening (though not unexpected).
All so some silly little fool can feel "safe".
Most people understand that "safe" is a myth. You can't protect everyone from everything (least of all, themselves).
Go ahead and chase that unicorn if you want.
Genocide? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Wrote a book? [wikipedia.org]
Everything already prepared ... (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, they sometimes do, in different countries, like Germany, France or China. Sometimes, specific content is censored globally (including US results, e.g. in the case of certain censored newsgroup messages)."
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-03-02-n19.html [blogoscoped.com]
1984 is calling.
CC.
Censorship (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't Censor, Don't Allow Anonymous Web Use (Score:3, Funny)
Make using the web at all require a login.
It is easier to misinform. (Score:2, Interesting)
In fact this s
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Things that are apt to blow up while being mixed, or things that will emit fumes that slowly kill/dull the bomb makers
Are you seriously suggesting this? For years there have been a series of busts of bomb-making rings in urban settings. These people were cooking, preparing to cook, or actually had, explosive materials. The last thing I want is for those people who are right in the middle of the city to cause a huge explosion because somebody gave them bogus information. That's not any better than if the
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The Solution! (Score:4, Funny)
so I cannot find: (Score:2)
A joke that kills me with laughter
Information on the Genocide in the second world war
The effects of terrorism on current society?
Or does he propose an intellectual limit to the searches? That'd be fun. We'd get all kinds of _smart_ terrorists...
B.
holocaust denial? (Score:5, Insightful)
"I do intend to carry out a clear exploring exercise with the private sector
So in other words, Frattini is in fact trying to make information on holocaust inaccessible, among other things. Score one for neo-nazis!
Dangerous Words? (Score:2)
Every time I see a call for censorship, I think... (Score:2)
Ev'rybody's 'neath the trees,
Feeding pigeons on a limb
But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here,
All the pigeons gonna run to him.
A cat's meow and a cow's moo, I can recite 'em all,
Just tell me where it hurts yuh, honey,
And I'll tell you who to call.
It's about a pusher and his clients.
free speech in any form, especially on the internet, will just route around censorship one way or the other.
Seems like we lost the war after all (Score:2)
Quoting the article: "I do intend to carry out a clear exploring exercise with the private sector ... on how it is possible to use technology to prevent people from using or searching dangerous words like bomb, kill, genocide or terrorism,"
In what way is blocking words like genocide going to help preventing terrorism? Does our friend the commisioner even know what the word means? Is he serious that covering up the WWII holocaust or the whole Yugoslavia disaster is the best way forward? The last parties t
it's a good job.... (Score:2)
Anyhow, all you have to do is pickup a good encyclopaedia to find out the same info.
Languages? (Score:2)
Second, who is to say an EU IP uses an EU search engine?
This looks like bureaucratic window-dressing to me. Brussels is trying to be worse than Washington. Stiff competition.
Bomba in Spanish.... (Score:2)
Genocide? (Score:2)
Also will CSI be banned over there? It gives all sorts of ways to mu
Do you censor libraries and bookstores too? (Score:2)
Unintended consequences: explosions and poisoning (Score:2)
Next thing you know, he'll be banning the use of dihydrogen monoxide
Making a bomb the MacGuyver way (Score:2)
Gunpowder consists of charcoal, sulphur and salpeter. [wikipedia.org]
To get charcoal, burn the chair. Without matches, rub pieces of broken chair together- this may not burn the chair but it will char it.
Instead of sulphur, phosphorus will do- you can obtain it by evaporating urine [vanderkrogt.net].
Shit is a good source for salpeter (KNO3) [wikipedia.org].
Phosphorus, charcoal and salpeter are then mixed in a 1:2:9 rati
Ban this, Mr. Frattini! (Score:4, Funny)
www.how-to-make-a-bomb.eu [how-to-make-a-bomb.eu]
(The domain's freshly registered so DNS might not be working everywhere yet).
Let's wipe the periodic table.... (Score:2)
He wants to block "how to make a bomb" or "how bombs work"? Not very successful, if you are interested you already know at least 1-2 components, and then search on them.
But wait, let's block everything related to a bomb. So first we have to block the whole periodic table, as most of the elements probably are contained in a bomb at the end.
Then can continue with keywords that will most likely be mentioned in the simplest instruction to do anything with any project as well:
contai
Italy and freedom (Score:2)
For instance, in Italy anonymous internet access is not allowed. When you want access internet in a public place you will be asked for ab ID which will be written manually into a huge big register. The forms in these registers were designed around the time Mussolini was around. In Mussolini's time traveling and communicating wer s
Censorship in the Anti-Terror coat. Nothing else (Score:2)
I taught my students how to make bombs! (Score:5, Funny)
I was a substitute teacher for a chemistry class. We were discussing reaction rates [wikipedia.org] as part of the class material, and I pointed out that a local flour mill explosion was the result of a flour/air mix that was ignited by a spark or over-heated equipment. The flour particles could oxidize (burn) extremely quickly because they were suspended in air, and being contained in an inflexible building the pressure from all those hot gases shattered the building, as opposed to another local fire in a grain silo that was still smoldering after two weeks because the paticles were large and air supply was limited.
On my return to that school, some days later, I was blamed for teaching the students how to blow up the trash barrels! Extrapolating from my information that flour/air mixes can go KABOOM, they shook flour into a barrel from a large kitchen shaker (the kind used for powdered sugar spreading), jammed on the lid, and gave it a spark from a battery-powered circuit. It was apparently an impressive KABOOM, although maybe not an earth-shattering one, and the trash barrel looked like it had been run over by a large truck.
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Time to (Score:2)
This failed in the past, and it will fail again (Score:2)
Years ago, I worked for ${BIGGEST_PHARMA} when they were making the switch to users having to have 2 authorizing signatures on a form before they were given Internet access, and allowing all users access to the live Internet. This was back in 1997/1998 timeframe, when most people were still using dialup at home to get to the net.
Initially, the Powers-that-Be that ran the network topology, fed a list of 'bad words' into their filters, and blocked any content based on that. They filtered on words like breas
Newspeak++ (Score:2)
Your search for "rwanda genocide" returned no pages. It never happened.
The EU's own documents? (Score:2)
http://europa.eu/index_en.htm [europa.eu]
EU members would not be able to get documents such as
Council Decision 2002/494/JHA of 13 June 2002, setting up a European network of contact points in respect of persons responsible for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes [europa.eu]
Then again, perhaps he's a proponent of Turkish and Serb membership? Neither of those nations like the term "genocide" applied to their past... or maybe he likes revisionist history which claims Holo
CYA (Score:2)
Oh, and don't forget to put "censorship" in the list. That should be right at the top!
The slippery slope (Score:2)
Yep, that's how it always starts. Then pretty soon, it devolves to this:
"I do intend to carry out a clear exploring exercise with the private sector ... on how it is possible to use technology to prevent people from using or searching dangerous words like free, fr
There goes history. (Score:2)
A harbinger of problems to come (Score:2)
I would venture to say that anyone who can seriously put forth such a proposal doesn't "get" the notion of liberty. Amazingl
Will this affect news websites? (Score:2)
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Knowledge only leads to questioning religion and authority.
How It Protects Kids... (Score:4, Funny)
We wouldn't want the kids to accidentally start wiping out entire races by accident, you know with those genocide machine schematics online.
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Note to Mods:
This is totally off-topic so feel free to mod me down, preferably after you've modded the aforementioned good posts posts up though.
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One thing we learn from the past is that it's always distorted. Is there anything really new about internet censorship?
Do Europeans consider free speech or free press important enough to kill, die, dissolve political alliances or revoke currency in order to protect them?
Freedom of speech is one of the very few things actually *worth* killing or dying to protect. But do Europeans feel that way? Or are they willing to surrender their rights?
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These sites would contain incorrect information on making bombs, but close enough to be mistaken.
Most of the "anarchist handbooks" in circulation contain recipes that either don't work or are too dangerous to attempt without a full explosives lab. Either the authors were really bad chemists or they were deliberately planting bad info. A good chemist would use the widely available "CRC Handbook of Laboratory Safety" and the "CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics" to doublecheck any recipe for efficacy an
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