Spotlight on Facebook Groups Affects Microsoft

NewsCloud writes "After Slashdot reported Facebook Exposes Advertisers To Hate Speech, the company removed its F**k Islam group for a day (it's back up now). According to the New York Times, 'Facebook declined to comment on Friday on the subject of hate speech or on what steps had been taken.' It turns out that Microsoft is the digital advertising provider for Facebook serving up ads for companies such as NetFlix, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon and Coca Cola. But for now, the Microsoft-served ads for all Facebook group home pages (even those complying with Facebook's Terms of Use) appear to have been taken off the site. For its part, NetFlix told me to address any concerns about its own ad placement along obscene speech with Facebook. T-Mobile said they would look into it."

ok but

This problem -- with user-generated content not being properly vetted by marketing departments before being juxaposed with ads -- is common to the "Web 2.0". Nobody has a "solution" to it, and the true solution is that advertisers need to buck up and learn that they can't micromanage every single waking moments of our day. Not to be some kind of bizarre technoutopian, but actually people think and act in ways that may be unpleasant to their fellows. The world doesn't actually look like one of those 1980s "Buy the World a Coke" ads.

Well that's too bad.

You'd think Microsoft would have known that a social networking site comprised mainly of college students would feature at least a few obscenities and outspoken and unpopular opinions. Personally I have no problem with a "Fuck Islam" group, but if Microsoft does, does anyone really think that a Microsoft-served ad provides an endorsement of the groups opinions? If it does, why hasn't anybody been all over Google?

Re:Well that's too bad.

Read TFA. See who posted the summary. The guy essentially fabricated a story out of nowhere. Tailor-made slashvertising... Nice.

Re:Well that's too bad.

Tailor-made slashvertising... Nice.

It's a DUPE too! We had this story before.

Is it just me or..

Havn't we seen this before?

Um

So Microsoft provides the advertising for a site whose users created a group called Fuck Islam. And they're at fault? Typical Slashdot spin...

This isn't just shooting the messenger. This is shooting the guy that made the uniform that the messenger wears.

Re:Discourse raped by political correctness?

I for one don't really mind if they believe whatever they like. After all, I believe in burning shrubs, talking snakes, and God that became a carpenter, walked on water, and died for my sins...

My problem with religion starts when its members begin to impose undue burden on non-members (I am looking at you, scientologists, sectarian fundies, and radical Muslims).

Silly

This whole "spotlight" on the group is silly. First off, the name notwithstanding, the group really isn't that full of "hate." But even if it was, who cares?! It's a group of people that think a certain way, and it's on a site that allows people to create groups to talk about whatever they want. Why should the group be censored? I don't want to have to worry about what somebody is going to let me say, on a social site.

Re:Silly

What's really scary is the reaction from the Muslim posters on Facebook.

The group in question simply objected to extremist Islam because they were killing civilians with car bombs and beheading innocents. The group directly confronted what it thought was a politically-correct reluctance to challenge extremist Muslims who wanted to kill Westerners and infidels. In response, lots of pro-Islam groups started to suggest killing Jews and Westerners. Existing Muslim groups (roughly paraphrasing, groups titled "Israel is not a real country, delist it") began to spout extremist threats. Even moderates on those boards refused to disavow terrorism, beheadings, car bombs, crashing airplanes into skyscrapers, killing Jews, and similar violence. The moderates said they were against violence, but you have to understand the kind of threats the Muslims are facing.

Anyone who dug into this would see the Muslim supporters on Facebook tend to be far more extreme and just flat-out crazy than anyone on "Fuck Islam." But it is too politically-sensitive to say this, thereby proving the point of the Fuck Islam groups.

Moderate away, my friends.

F**k taboo

Let the kids say whatever they want, even if you or I don't agree with it. This applies to the so-called obscenity as much as the derision for Islam. Humanity will someday grow up and realize we'll never all agree, and then we can stop being offended by our disagreement, including wanting each other dead.

good

I'm glad they put that group back up. It's not that I'm a bigot or anything. I just believe the old mantra that the freedom to criticize or hate is the greatest freedom.

Inappropriate overreaction...

Canceled NetFlix over this?

You'd think a /. submitter would understand the vagaries of such advertising relationships and the rotation systems employed. It's not like NetFlix specifically paid to be seen by members of "Neo-Nazi movie-lovers for the destruction of Israel."

Sending them snarky letters as if that was the case is pretty childish...

Meh

I find it hard to believe that MS would pull the ads so quickly, if at all. Perhaps Facebook rotates its advertising providers and today is Microsofts day off?

So what exactly constitutes "obscene speech"?

Simple question, really. You can choose to agree with speech, and you can choose not to agree with speech. I'll even stretch the concept and say that speech which wanders into explicit sexuality might be considered "obscene" under a traditional judicial concept of pornographic obscenity.

But what makes the Facebook site obscene? The use of the F-word alone?

Netflix is not the problem

I think the only real problem in this situation is the loser who closed his Netflix account because he doesn't understand how the web works...

Free speech

This is sort of thing is absolutely the point of having free speech. Of course, since FaceBook is a private entity, they do not have no legal obligation to be a forum for free speech, but it would be great if they were.

That said, I'm kind of curious to see how far this tolerance goes. I think a FaceBook group attacking overly conservative Islamic culture is a perfectly valid and topical political point. Can I have a FaceBook group called "F**k Negros", to attack the inner-city black youth culture that fills the city I live in with violence? Can I have a "F**k GWB" group to attack the dumbass president who is screwing things up in the Middle East? Can I have a "F**k the Jews" group attacking the whiny Jews who scream "anti-semitism!" in order to stifle legitimate debate? If so, I have a lot more respect for FaceBook than I used to...

Smells like FUD

Facebook, like many of these sites, uses an advertisement service. In this case, as mentioned in the summary, it uses Microsoft. So let me get this straight, someone is mad because a vaguely random placed ad is on some hate speech group thats part of user-content created website? From that Idealog link, it really sounds like he thinks some marketing guy up at Netflix said to himself, "Hey, look at this F**K Islam group, lets buy an ad space there." More likely they just bought ads with Microsoft to be place anywhere that uses Microsoft's ad service. Its not facebook's fault, and definitely not Netflix/T-Mobile's fault. This isn't television where you can specify during what show you want your ad on. Its a dynamic ad, it places it randomly among whatever sites use the system. Netflix bought a service from Provider A, doesn't mean they support Random Hatespeech Facebook Group B. This really must be a slow news day.

Ummm... as for the advertising part...

Who cares? It means I am less likely to see an ad when I log in to FaceBook. Hooray!

To blame any of MS's ad placement on MS is ridiculous. That they (possibly) took their ads offline because they did not want them associated with a hate site is a good thing - regardless of anyone's view on "Freedom of Speech".

Free speech.

I'm not too sure but did free speech just trump economic interest and aggressive religious interests?

Should we celebrate? I'm so confused.

I think the real reason this guy is angry

is because somebody removed him from their top 8. :)

Double-edged sword

Facebook is in a unique position here. If they start vetting groups based on "hate speech" or some other term, they will be accused of pandering to a bunch of whiney liberal bitches, resulting in a loss of popularity, and therefore, ad revenue. However, if they continue to allow these groups, the whiney liberal bitch types will whine to the advertisers, resulting in pulled ads, and lost revenue. My solution - incorporate a moderation system like the one on slashdot to filter out the dickwads. If they bitch, all you have to say is that you were not censoring them, that it was a community decision. And to the whiney liberal bitches, if they start complaining, all you have to do is tell them to get off their pot smoking asses and mod them down. They should probably limit this to groups, though. It would suck if one day you check your facebook profile and see that it had been moderated to -5: Geek whos probably still a virgin.........

Strange...

This is odd. I thought free speech in America only applied to those opinions with which a significant portion of the general public agrees.

For the site to be back up suggests that at least someone in America values free speech to the extent that they would tolerate an opinion with which they disagree.

Truly strange indeed!

"Free Speech"

Everybody wants to go on and on about free speech. For the record, the first amendment to the US Constitution reads as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

See, it's about what Congress can not do. It has pretty much no effect on how a privately owned website operates. Facebook could ban all groups or user profiles with the word "gun" or "fuck" or "Linux" in them and it still wouldn't be a "free speech issue."

Why does Slashdot keep posting this crap?

"Fuck Islam" is not hate speech, any more than "Fuck Christianity", "Fuck Scientology" or "Fuck Atheism" is. If you don't like a set of ideological beliefs and superstitions (ie, a religion) then you have the right to voice that opinion, and the people who try to silence that are the ones who ought to be punished. If you can't handle that not everybody likes what you like, then I recommend you don't read it. In any case, stop perstering us about it.

That said, "Fuck Islam" is obscene speech, but maybe the site in question has a policy of tolerating obscene speech. It is their choice after all.

Whole Atricle is a Troll!

I think this whole article is a troll. Someone didn't like criticism of Islam, and it taking every avenue to censor and suppress it -- and trying to get the rest of us to go along. Islam is richly deserving of criticism and scholarly discussion, but try that in an actual Islamic country and you may easily find yourself in jail, if not having already had your head cut off. If you support Free Speech on the Internet, then you must be against this censorship, even if you find the site itself distasteful.

It's Not Hate Speech

"Fuck Islam" is no more hate speech than "Fuck Creationists" or "Fuck Republicans". They both are ways to express strong rejection of a certain belief system. Merely because people label their beliefs religious doesn't magically make them immune from criticism.

More precisely the concept of hate speech is incoherent. It is impossible to at once give a definition of hate speech that makes it clear why it is significantly worse than things like "Fuck Republicans" but yet also makes it obvious that the things termed hate speech, e.g., "Fuck Islam", qualify.

I agree that speech that involves the phrase "Fuck Islam" is more likely to be motivated by thoughtless prejudice than other sorts of speech but mere correlation doesn't get you very far. There is going to be a correlation between "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" and ignorant prejudice as well but this doesn't make the statement of evangelical beliefs hate speech.

A religious belief is a belief like any other and it's explicit rejection of evidence or proof doesn't means if anything it deserves less protection from criticism than our other beliefs not more. Of course we need to combat hate directed against the people who are muslim, christian or whatever. The fact that they believe something stupid doesn't warrant hating them, most of us believe some stupid shit. However, the way to do this isn't to treat phrases criticizing the belief differently than phrases criticizing conservatism. That just encourages people.

Hate speech is nothing

I don't see what is so bad about "Fuck Islam". I mean, if I said "Fuck religion", would that be worse because it includes all religion? Should I outline and elaborate on the countless people who have been killed in the name of God to give you an idea why I hold this sentiment?

I mean, people act like forming an online community of people who dislike the beliefs of Islam is a crime against humanity. They are just as justified in harboring a dislike of people who believe in Islam as you are in disliking them for their dislike of people who believe in Islam.

At least I don't see any "Fuck Islam" online communities killing innocents and claiming credit for it. They have at least found a nonviolent way of expressing their opinions which is more than I can say for the other extreme.

Also see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfG-FEQedyI&mode=related&search= [youtube.com] and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upbq9bwBxkA&eurl= [youtube.com]

(Incoming -1)

Definition of hate speech

If you dont watch it, most any religious group will be considered to spew hate speech.( which they all do at one point or another )

Personally i say if words hurt you, there are more fundamental issues going on. Dont like what is being said? Then dont read it. Its that simple.

Fuck Islam

I couldn't care less what happens at Facebook or if Microsoft gets unfairly tarred as a supporter of so-called hate speech. The fact is that what some people call hate speech others call free speech. So, in the spirit of free speech, FUCK ISLAM.

Win for one group...

At least the F**k Advertising group now doesn't show any ads on their group page

thinkers:idiots

The thinker to idiots ratio on that group is better then 50:50 so I think it aught exist and be supported by people who respect the ability to voice an opinion without censure.

Seriously, when is Jeff going to back off?

Why is this guy throwing his weight around? Is he trying to spread his Islamic beliefs? That's the only possible explanation for his hyperactive opposition to my group. He has more influence than he merits. His site automatically censors the word fuck when you post it there, and he hasn't responded to any of my comments, even though I'm the one that made the group and I'm here with a white flag. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Jeff, but my opposition to Islam doesn't really stop you from doing anything in your life. It just seems like you've made it a goal to stop me from saying "Fuck Islam", but you aren't really defending Islam are you? We both agree about the worth of Muslims, and we might even agree about the worth of their belief system. It seems like the only difference between us is I'm willing to say "Fuck", and you will do almost anything to stop that word from being uttered. What's so threatening about an atheist's point of view, may I ask? Why aren't you out there campaigning against the sites that say "Fuck Variable Variable" (facebook.com/group.php?gid=4042647661) , which actually qualify as hate speech. If you were I would ask you to let them be, since it really doesn't matter, and trying to keep people quiet just makes them louder.

Yet more astroturfing

I've been reading about this over on the OP's site [newscloud.com]. He's a one man campaign on this one. Here's the post I just made on that site:

Jeff writes:

I've just been writing about the fact that they don't seem to be enforcing their own policies and the impact this has on their brand and business partners.

That's pretty disingenuous. You're pursuing Facebook, via the advertisers, yourself and drumming up publicity for your pursuit as a campaign tactic, as the admins who deleted your post to Metafilter [metafilter.com] recognised (and the admins of Slashdot haven't recognised, but they never were the sharpest tools in the box). Neither are you interested in the details of Facebook's TOS. I'd be more impressed if you'd been up-front about what this is about, namely that you don't like the way Variablast has expressed his dislike of Islam.

So, what of Variablast? I agree that what he's done is crude, but here's the thing: the propensity of some Muslims to be offended is their problem, not his. He may be a troll who knows exactly the effect his words are going to have, but sane people, even religious ones, know when they're being trolled and don't start riots or issue death threats as a result.

Islam is not a race and non-Islamic Arabs and Pakistanis in the UK are a bit fed up [vanityfair.com] of the authorities' bumbling attempts to be multi-cultural by asking the imams what "the community" thinks. So the group cannot be racist, any more than the "Fuck Christianity" group is. Do you also object to that group? What is it about "Fuck Islam" that has you so riled?

False equivalence.

"Fuck hate speech" is not hate speech. Hate speech is an action, freely chosen by its perpetrators, that targets a set of people on the basis of characteristics that they either do not choose (skin color), or which, in the face of their perpetrators, are so central to their identity that they cannot easily or sincerely choose otherwise (religion). To make things worse, in the latter case, the definition of the victim group in terms of religion, something where technically they could choose otherwise, is just a scapegoat; racists (religious chauvinists, xenophobes, whatever you want to call them) aren't very well known for being very precise and discerning about who they target; in the racist mind, "muslim," "towelhead" and "sand nigger" might as well mean the same thing. Just ask Christian Arabs who get shit for speaking Arabic.

MOD PARENT DOWN AS SPAM

Wow, I was on the edge of my seat trying to figure out how you'd get Ron Paul involved in this story.

Mod parent down, SPAM.

I'm so tired of hearing about Ron (no chance) Paul.