Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD

JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."

Yeah, right.

I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.

Re:Yeah, right.

I'm backing whomever gets sub $100 first. Blu-ray doesn't appear to be too aggressive in the pricing part of this war. The dvd's themselves are a stalemate are far as I'm concerned. I'll be surprised if any studio will actually fill up an entire blu-ray dvd to make HD-DVD look that much more inferior of a format so it all comes down to price for me.

The studios will go wherever the biggest user base is eventually.

Re:Yeah, right.

HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.

Re:Yeah, right.

> by Seumas (6865) on Tuesday August 21, @01:08AM (#20300997)
> My understanding is that HD-DVD does not do uncompressed audio
> like Blu-Ray. That alone is enough to sell me on Blu-Ray. I
> spent $20,000 on the audio system for my home entertainment
> center and I want the best quality media. I don't care if I
> can buy a HD-DVD player for $100 cheaper than a Blu-Ray --
> if the quality isn't there, it isn't of interest.

> by ResidntGeek (772730) on Tuesday August 21, @01:18AM (#20301043)
> HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.

I like how that guy spent $20,000 on audio equipment, but can't do 30 seconds of research. I really need some clients like him. :)

Re:Yeah, right.

LPCM support is mandatory for both standards. However, you maybe surprised to know that Dolby TrueHD, which is a lossless compression method, is mandatory for HD-DVD and is only optional for Blue-ray. As a result, most of the HD-DVD titles come with the audio compressed with TrueHD and no LPCM (selecting only one of the mandatory options), saving between 2:1 to 4:1 on storage space while blue-ray titles, should always carry the LPCM soundtrack and in practice rarely include a TrueHD track. Carrying only LPCM means that all other nice features of TureHD is going to be missed: dialog normalization, Dynamic range compression, downmixing to any arbitrary number of channels, etc...

Re:So which one do we support?

HD-DVD only have one level of encryption that keeps getting broken all the time.
Blu-Ray has two levels of encryption, one of them can apparently only be broken for an individual Blu-Ray disk and player.

So if you looking for something that can easily be ripped/ played on free software then you need to back HD-DVD.

Re:Yeah, right.

I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.

Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.

"Paramount's move comes weeks after Blockbuster, the DVD rental chain, said it would stock more Blu-ray discs to cope with rising consumer demand."

From the article here;
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8569e16-4f61-11dc-b485- 0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b 5df10621.html [ft.com]

Re:Yeah, right.

Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.

The real question is, will Blockbuster stay that way now that Paramount made the switch?

The "only" major backing?

I don't know where you heard this, but HD-DVD has many more backers than "only" Toshiba and Microsoft. Here is a short list [wikipedia.org]. Also, keep in mind that HD-DVD is the format supported by the DVD Forum [wikipedia.org], aka the DVD consortium, the builders and maintainers of the original DVD format, which means that every company that backs DVDs is indirectly backing HD-DVD, whether they want to or not.

And while it's true that a common misconception is that Sony "owns" Blu-ray, it's also true that Sony is THE major backer and has the most at stake in Blu-ray winning the format war. The movie studios are still on the fence. Even the studios that released Blu-ray versions of movies have only released minor movies and old movies, and could switch at the drop of a hat at any time. Ditto Blockbuster video. If Blu-ray suddenly and dramatically lost the format war to HD-DVD, they wouldn't be impacted very much. (They've planned it that way, incidentally.) However, Sony sold its soul in including the Blu-ray drive in its PS3, and if the format fails, they'll be FUBAR.

Of course, I personally don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will win the format war. The next major format is not media at all; it's network delivery of content. Ten years from now, the concept of having to put a disc into a drive to watch a movie will seem quaint.

The End of this Format War?

I sure hope so. I've been holding off buying into one of these technologies until the format war ends. This sounds like it could be the beginning of the end.

Re:The End of this Format War?

The end result is obvious: eventually every player is going to be pushing drives that handle both high-capacity/high-def formats as well as DVD and CD, much like we saw with DVD-R vs. DVD+R. I agree though: this has been the only good news on HD-DVD's side in a while.

Re:The End of this Format War?

The only BD advantages are 10GB of unused space, JVM and extra DRM... all of which add (mostly unnecessary/futile) costs/complexity in the player and media distribution chains.

Since both HD-DVD and Blueray streams have maximum bitrates of 18Mbps (nearly twice DVD's 1X spec), HD-DVD's 15GB is already (though barely) sufficient to store a 2h movie at the maximum allowed bitrate. From what I read though, it seems most HD movies (both HD-DVD and Blueray) are encoded at rates in the area of 5-6Mbps so there should be plenty of space left for extras even on HD-DVD - at current typical rates, HD-DVD would be good for 5-7 hours, plenty long enough for any of the LotR extended editions. I personally do not care which one wins as long as I can watch stuff in full HD without flipping discs half-way.

HD-DVD's 15GB capacity is sufficient for its primary purpose: cost-efficient HD movie distribution. Worst case, HD-DVD specs do allow for dual-layer discs should some titles (or disc writers) require extra space. For Joe Sixpack (at least those who do not have a PS3), the format war is likely to remain irrelevant until stand-alone players drop below $200. After this point, things could snowball towards HD-DVD - HD-DVD will almost certainly get there first, possibly this year.

Re:Not quite

Exactly, the 2:1 sales ratio doesn't mean much when they sold so few units. It would be like comparing Mac computer sales to Linux computer sales, and forgetting to mention that windows sales are still through the roof. The simple fact is that most people don't care about HD movies. Same way they didn't care about HD Audio. There's just too little of a quality difference for most people to justify the inflated price, and a format war doesn't help the situation in the slightest.

Re:The End of this Format War?

Links to top A/V sites:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p= 11351599
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=273
htt p://www.guidetohometheater.com/hddiscplayers/1206p s3blu/index3.html
http://www.insert25.com/playsta tion-3/ps3-better-console-or-blu-ray-player/
http ://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hd-dvd-bluray/1927/sh ootout-3-blu-ray-disc-players-page9.html

I could go on, but I don't need to. It says more that http://hdtvmagazine.com/ [hdtvmagazine.com] uses the PS3 as their "reference" player for BluRay. So does the fact that http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ [soundandvisionmag.com] used it as well.

No - the Beginning....

Previously Blu-Ray sales had been about 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray, though the whole year (66% to 34%, to be exact). Sony Blu-Ray players in the last few months have actually been outselling Toshiba standalone players, and that's not counting the PS3 numbers.

Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store, and Blockbuster was only going to offer Blu-Ray in store.

Now, with Paramount and Dreamworks the equation has changed. Blu-Ray still has really significant exclusives in Fox, Disney, and Sony (Star Wars/Pixar/Spider Man!). But, it will take much longer for Blu-Ray to win, if it can eventually. This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming tehre was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.

The rumor [deadlineho...ddaily.com] is that Microsoft paid Paramount $50M, and Dreamworks $100M, to make this switch (until now they had been neutral). Why would Microsoft do this? Pretty simple, if consumers are confused about which format to buy they are more likley just to download HD content from the only provider currently sellign HD content online. That provider is Microsoft...

Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.

Not Nintendo

They aren't selling below cost to kill a competitor, it's just that they've chosen to lose money on the consoles in order to make money selling games. That's nothing more than Sony and Nintendo have been doing for years.

I'm amazed the debate has managed to last this long without someone pointing out that Nintendo don't do this, and as far as I know, never have with their consoles. The 'profit on every console sold' manta is one of the fundamental pillars of their business. I thought pretty much everyone knew that one.

What if there was a war, and nobody came...

This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming there was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.

What if there was a war, and nobody came. [frogcircus.org]

The High Def format war seems more like a clown pie fight to me. Neither side is offering me anything that I want.

The technology is so laden with anti-customer "features" that, frankly, I hope the both lose. I think this is a realistic possibility as downloadable HD content becomes commonly available, which you hit on later in your post.

Peter

Re:No - the Beginning....

Ahahaha. Ooh, that's a good one. The vasy majority of people don't know how to work their HDTV's, if they even have them. They certainly don't download movies to an HTPC, and most 360 players don't either. It's hilarious and ridiculous to think MS is doing this to sell online movies. They would literally be business retarded if that were the case, and they're anything but business retarded. Seriously, that's the most ridiculous, lame-brained conspiracy theory I've read in a while.

I wonder...

Will this make Sony feel...blue?

What's the Motive?

I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?
It seems to me that they are trying to steer towards a format that contains half the data storage capacity with the goal of having yet another format go obsolete sooner rather than later. They must make a ton of money when people re-purchase titles on a new format. Soon these same studios will be 'crying' because they don't have enough data space on a disc, therefore they have to push a new standard.

Re:What's the Motive?

Really? Has there really been a major outcry among studios that DVD was just too small? If there has been, I haven't been aware of it.

Besides, do you really think there will be another physical format after this? I'd be willing to bet that by the time this format war is finished and another one ready to begin, digital distribution will be quite ubiquitous.

Does anyone even care at this point?

I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

The thing I can't believe is that they expect anyone to make any sort of investment as long as there are two formats. Too many of us remember being burned by VHS/Beta. That's one of the reasons CDs were such a huge hit--when the CD came out it was a tremendous improvement PLUS there was no format competition. I won't even consider either format until it is the only format. Until then, I could care less about the details.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

Bluray and HD-DVD have virtually identical technologies in almost all ways except data density and software. The scratch proof coating is actually pretty scratch proof on both. The only difference is in HD DVD it's optional. So really cheap HD-DVD's will be as bad as really cheap DVD's while Blu-ray has to be coated if they want to stamp it bluray.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

1080p is nowhere NEAR film grain quality. That's still only in the 2 megapixel range. When you start seeing video where each frame is in the 10-20 megapixel range, then you might be talkin'.

I held off on LaserDisc way before the DVD even began development, because I was certain that within a few years someone would come out with a format that put LaserDisc quality on something the size of a CD. That was a good decision. However, I'm actually pretty happy with DVD. Yeah, I can see artifacts on my 100" projector, but I don't have any problems ignoring them and just watching the movie.

I'll get an HD player at some point but it won't bother me in the least if it's 5 or 10 years from now. I probably won't bother until I can buy an HD-R drive for my computer for $50.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

Wrong. People keep saying this, but 35mm motion picture is nowhere near 20 megapixels when you're talking about the third or fourth generation prints that go to theathers.

Many, many films today use digital color correction or digital effects at 2k (2048x1080p) resolution. Major films, including Mann's Collateral and Miami Vice, Episode III, and others are 'filmed' digitally at 2k resolution with great success.

Go see a digital cinema. It is shockingly better - sharper, no gate jitter, and no noise. 2K is more than adequete.

Nowhere near 20MP, not even 10. Not even 2.

Most hollywood films you would see now in the cinema were edited using Digital_intermediates [wikipedia.org]; film scanned at either 2K or (probably more common now) 4K and then recorded back to film. That is 4000 pixels wide, not 4000 lines. So at the now popular 1:2.35 aspect ratio, that is less than 7MP.

Plus when projected, the actual resolution of film as seen off the silver screen is very, very low. This is simply because running at 24 fps through a projector and being stopped for a brief moment it is on screen, the frame is never completely flat or motionless. Plus the frame is tiny and the much larger magnification needed compared to a digital projector's CCD/whatever brings with it a lot of unsharpness due to lens flaws. Not to mention the positive film you see in the theater is a 3rd or 4th generation copy from the original negative.

This is why even 2K digital scans in the theater are a lot sharper than any project 35mm/24fps film will ever be. Not to mention far less black time in between frames.

Back to HD-DVD:

If you have a computer or laptop capable of playing it back and an HDTV with HDMI or DVI input (or a converter plug) you should try a downloaded HD rip. (search for "1080p" on any torrent site) I only have a 37" 720p TV with a rather good upscaling HDMI DVD player. But even at just 720p, downloaded 4 mb/sec x264 movies ripped from BR/HDVD played back on this TV using DVI from my MacBook Pro look a lot better than any upscaled DVDs.

I also can't wait for Dolby TrueHD audio from the actual discs!

That said, a far cheaper upgrade would have been h.264 on the same 9GB disk. No room for TrueHD audio, but any feature film would have fit at a high enough bitrate to put any DVD to shame.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

I've noticed at all the rip you off outlets (Visions) HD-DVD movies tend to be more expensive then blurays ones for exactly the same movies. I wonder why? 300 was $29.95 cnd for blue ray but $39.95 for HD-DVD at visions electronics.

Curse of the Combo Disc

I've noticed at all the rip you off outlets (Visions) HD-DVD movies tend to be more expensive then blurays ones for exactly the same movies. I wonder why?

Because HD-DVD ships you combo discs that play in both normal DVD players and HD-DVD players - and you get to pay extra for the priviledge.

As a bonus, sometimes the layers seperate and destroy the disc 300 had that issue. It's not common though, just like the Blu-Ray layer seperation issue was in small batches. Still, paying extra for discs where you only want the HD content is really annoying.

Re:Does anyone even care at this point?

$100 does not get you a good upconverting player. For that you are in the $200+ range. If you rent more than buy, the cost of movies is the same. There is no significant reason not to go with a HD-DVD player if you rent.

No more bets please...

"''Spider-Man 3'' will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format when it is released by Sony Pictures, while people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller ''The Bourne Ultimatum,'' which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD."

I hear a slow, solemn, lazy church bell ringing in the background.

Microsoft 'bribed' the two into dropping Blueray

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html# dp [thedigitalbits.com]

I'm not sure it was the best timing ...

I don't think this was the best time for Paramount to jump ship on the Blu-ray line. While they _may_ have looked at the numbers involved, units sold, etc., all of that data was over the last year or so. What they didn't really consider was that a lot of non-videophile (aka., people who would buy a specific HD-DVD / Blu-ray player) purchasers were going to start purchasing PS3s...

With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources [kotaku.com]., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.

Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined. [deadlineho...ddaily.com]

I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.

Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then ...

Money Talks

Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.

- js.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm [tvpredictions.com]

Interesting

I has thought HD DVD was dead, in m home city in the UK there are only four shops selling "next gen" disc's. Virgin Megastore which only has a collection of Blue Ray films at the insane price of £25+, Anouther Virgin Megastore (yes my city centre has two) which has Blue Ray discs and a small bay of HDDVD discs (half the display of blueray) and the other two are Woowoths and Game both of which sell them because they sell PS3's. Afer nosing around those places as wellas Son,panasonic,comet,dixons and a audiophile shop I've only seen blueray players.

Since I now own a PS3 I might buy a Bluray film if its as cheap as a DVD but to be honest I can't see a difference, i is bugging my that Shrek the Third, Transformers and Bourne Ultimatium are alll goingto be HDDVD only they were the only three films I've liked all year.

Why?!

Too much porn on Blu-ray now?

Hey, Toshiba!

The Victor Company of Japan called.

They said they want their market disruption techniques back.

That is kinda strange

that they would choose HD-DVD, when Blu-Ray's the one that hasn't been totally pwned, yet.

But yeah, doesn't matter to me, I'll just download for free until they make the price more convenient than dealing with the piratebay.  Not that hard to do, really.  Three or four bucks?  I'd go for that, every time.

All day long.

Baby pay twice *sings*

I guess in the end we will end up with both formats, just like with DVD+ and -.

Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!

What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap :)

Sure, keep changing things, that will win loyalty.

(That's irony).

Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.

As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.

Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.

As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.

It is nowhere near over yet.

Neither format has caught on at all, and the only players that are in homes in any sort of numbers are the PS3. I think that most people who have a PS3 bought it as a gaming machine and don't care that it can play any sort of DVD. Any format decision made by any studio is subject to change without notice; if Blu-Ray becomes dominant I am sure that Paramount will make Blu-Ray disks. Other than all of the major studios going to only one format, the only significant format change by a studio would be if Sony started to sell their movies in HD-DVD.

It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.

Any hopes of having this it legal . . .

to use on Linux, after having paid for the appropriate hardware? Or are we required to pay for the hardware + Windows + software + disk?

Are we there yet?

It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.

Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.

It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.

Cheers,

b&

The people who want Blu-Ray for storage purposes..

Are missing out.

Last I checked, physical disks costs $100 for 500GB in a USB enclosure. That's faster than Blu-Ray can write, cheaper, and portable. Most games and media will fit onto an HD-DVD EASILY. If you're backing up to Blu-Ray discs then I think you silly. Even USB sticks can hold 4GB on them, and the next generation will 'up' that even higher. Again, faster writes, and cheaper pricing.

Personally, I want HD-DVD to win the 'format' war, because in reality, it's going to be the LAST physical format. The 'next' generation is going to be streaming media entirely. Look at how long it took for people to move from VHS to DVD -- oh wait, they still haven't! The same is true for a physical format like HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I just want what will be cheaper in the long run. I can go to WalMart now and pick up a DVD for $5. Do you think I will ever be able to pick up a $5 Blu-Ray disc? Won't happen. Sony has a bad history in terms of media and closed formats, and BR will be no exception. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce, and that means as factories convert, it will be even MORE cheap. And the plus is that a lot of HD-DVDs are dual sided, one side being the HD content, the other being a regular DVD.

This 'war' is just idiotic -- just choose the cheaper format and move on. Or do you want to get higher pricing on your media, so that when the streaming content comes along and costs virtually NOTHING, that you are arguing it down from a higher price?

It's going to be harder to say "Hey, you were paying $30 for that BR disc, now you can pay $20 for streaming media."

Or would you rather say "Hey, you were paying $15 for that HD-DVD, now you can pay $10 for streaming content."

I know which one I'd pick.

The funny thing is...

now that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the studios pretty much split between them, they guarantee that the best selling players are going to be the dual format players. If you consider that most people don't have an HDTV, by the time they do such players will be plentiful. Who wouldn't buy one under those conditions? Executives at Paramount and other studios can look forward to many bidding wars for exclusives on the releases of blockbusters. All they have to do is not sell total studio commitment to a format and just do it piecemeal via movie.

The only way to win is not to play

Just reiterates my resolve that I'll buy a player when there's a decent dual-format player.

I'm backing whoever defeats DRM

I am backing whoever defeats DRM so I can connect an HDMI cable to my MythTV box and record.watch Hi-Def content. Until that happens I will record analog only and get the High-Def content through other channels.

irrelevant...

I mean, the disc, any format, is obsolete, and this just helps push downloading as the primary format. HD-DVDs are cheaper to manufacture? Downloads have no manufacturing cost.

Everything else aside, I realized I don't buy DVDs to watch them again. How many times can you watch one thing? I buy stuff when I like it enough that I want to hand to other people I think should watch it. And on occasion to kind of show support for something like a show that was cancelled.. but that's not that common. 99% of the time they just sit there, taking up space.

Frankly, I hope they both die.

Preferably, in a long, extremely expensive way. Then, maybe, a standard without all the fancy DRM nonsense laced into it that actually gives purchasers a benefit might come out.

While I'm dreaming, maybe Microsoft will adopt the Linux kernel and open source its next OS as well.

Weaker DRM in HD-DVD

HD-DVD has a weaker DRM system since it doesn't have the BD+ capabilities of BluRay. Hey, that's a plus for the (worse) standard.

As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.

Adobe went with Blu-Ray

Adobe went with Blu-Ray as the only high definition recordable disk supported by their Adobe® Premiere® Pro CS3 editing suite. You can see the list of what works here [adobe.com].

This is big as Paramount is the biggest studio

Paramount is the biggest studio of 2007 with 18% market share.

January 1-August 19, 2007
Overall Gross: $6.585 billion
Rank Distributor Market
Share Total
Gross* Movies
Tracked 2007
Movies**
1 Paramount 18.1% $1,189.5 15 11
2 Warner Bros. 14.8% $974.8 23 13
3 Buena Vista 14.1% $930.6 16 8
4 Sony / Columbia 14.0% $924.6 19 16
5 Universal 11.3% $745.0 13 11
6 20th Century Fox 10.9% $719.9 17 9

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/ [boxofficemojo.com]

$150M Bribe to Switch

_Deadline Hollywood Daily_ is reporting that HD-DVD promoters paid Paramount and Dreamworks $150M to switch [deadlineho...ddaily.com]. At least $150M: that's just a couple of immediate deals. $150M is enough for those studios to produce at least one or two movies, either of which could return $300-500M even before being released... on HD-DVD.

Taking too long

First the spec development process, then the time-to-market, and now the market shakeup are all making certain that both standards will be obsolete by the time that one of them has one their little war.

Neither one is anywhere near cutting edge any more, as technology marches on.

The Real Winner is Neither BluRay or HD-DVD

These competing standards (that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) are both losers. When I go buy movies, I still buy DVDs (despite having an HD TV for 3+ years). Know why? Because it plays in my player.

Eventually, a common player will be affordable for both HD and Blu. At that point, do you know who will win my business? That's right... Netflix. With the industry proving to me that ownership is dumb... I've gone from buying 3-5 DVDs a month to 1 every three months. When I get an upgraded player, I don't expect that there will ever be a movie that I'll want to own.

Am I wrong, or has the format "war" done nothing but alienated consumers and shown that companies are too egotistical to work together to create standards that are actually beneficial to the end users... and for that, I trust them as far as I can throw them.

Out for a quick buck

I think paramount is probably accepting a wad of cash for a limited exclusive period. I mean really, 100mil and maybe a 1 year lockin to HD-DVD. If bluray has won in a year, they'll start pressing BD's again. If HD wins, then they just keep pressing HD's. I doubt they'll make 100mil off bluray this year, so its a big win money wise, and really thats all the suits care about.

what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this

As soon as I read the headline, I was reminded of the DreamWorks clan( Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg ) all wearing Microsoft "BoB" hats back when Microsoft reinvented the user interface of the future. It was a short time after that when we all saw Bill Gates join in the mug shots as they all announced the DreamWorks Interactive partnership( Microsoft and DreamWorks ).

So, what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this? Is there any wonder why Katzenberg is committing to back the HD DVD format of a very wealthy financial partner? HD-DVD is as much Microsofts format as it is Toshiba's IMO.

LoB

Blu-ray is the future

Plus the PS3 can run Linux! I wonder why the Xbox 360 doesn't have a linux distro to tie in with?

Who cares? No DRM infested nonsense for me.

Who cares? Until BR/HD are completely broken like DVD is today, I won't spend a penny on them. Crippling my ability to backup my own media is a sure way of pissing me off and looking elsewhere. I can't tell you how many times the kids have scratched or damaged a DVD, only to be replaced by a backup I'd made. Thanks but no thanks.

What a pile of doo-doo

I tell you what, neither of these s.o.b.'s are getting my money. Priority one: get the player price down. Priority two: drop DRM. Priority three: get the hell out of the way.

I was arguing with an audiofile the other day. He was saying how awful digital music is, especially mp3s and other compressed formats. I know he's right, of course. Give me a $20,000 system in an acoustically prepared room, and it'll blow the socks off the 1% of the population (or less) that can afford it.

Or take the other tack: exchange mp3s over the internet, or buy them cheaply. They sound good enough on a system that costs a few hundred. The cost of becoming an expert is a few thousand, and largely free. Paricipate in the music of your generation. Swim in it. Is that not more important than the snobbish moron who spends all his money on the REPRODUCTION of sound, which is an industrial process that makes you passive, or listen to a wide swath of music, and if someone special's in town, hear them in perfect fidelity: go to hear the music, live. That's music is the digital age. The price we pay is less-deatiled sound. But it's also more participatory. Learn to make music. Be a fan. Get to understand flatted fifths, diminished ninths -- or learn to play, for God's sake. Most of the musicians I know DON'T have fancy stereos. They hear the real thing every night, coming out of the end of their fingers.

In other words, that old guy Marshall McLuhan knew what he was talking about after all. TV was cool, but it's not "cool" anymore. Sharing stuff over the net is REALLY cool.

It's the same with movies. The catalog is very big now. Thw world movie library is enormous. Do you want to give up your living room to an absurdly large screen, and pay someone twenty dollars to see a movie that you will watch in glorious color once? No. Give me lower detail that can be shared and swapped. Make a Library of World Cinema that can be copied and watched. I'll download Bergman, if you don't mind. I'll even pony up three or four dollars, though I'd prefer to use a lending library formula. Maybe my city government, or state, could pay, just like public libraries.

Anyway, who cares about Hi-Def? It's nice, no doubt, but if the cost is paying these idiots a fortune for Steve Gutenberg in 1080p, I'll sit this dance out.

Sony pictures is a competitor

That is probably why they are being dropped and they played along wiht Sony so far because they did not want to miss out in case it became standard.

This is how Sony lost to VHS. All the vcr makers viewed them as competitors so they supported VHS. Same with IBM and OS/2 vs WIndows. IBM is a mean monopoly so support the underdog which is windows.

Good? Bad? Can't decide...

There is only one thing that has prevented me from buying a player: There is no single format supported by all of the movie studios. Give me that, and I'd be much more willing to buy in.

Unfortunately, this is a step away from that. As usual, it's all about the software, not the technology. Unless the software I want is available in the format I want, I can convince myself to keep waiting. I'm inclined towards HD-DVD, but this doesn't help motivate me.

Just insane

This decision makes no business sense at all unless someone is lining their pockets with a lot of money to switch over. Certainly it can't be because HD-DVD is superior or anything else because it isn't. If Microsoft is behind the move, I predict lawsuits over this. If they're manipulating the HD format wars to prolong them so that their download service wins out, that would strike me as absolutely anti-competitive behaviour.

Star Trek II

I don't care about any of this HD format stuff. I've got an HDTV but I'm not going to plunk down hundreds of dollars on something that may, or may not, be the format for the next ten years. Until Star Trek II comes out on one of the formats. Then I buy a player the next day.

It's the universal player stupid

I don't think the format war will ever be *settled*. Instead, there will be a universal player/writer that solves the format problem.

I was at a MicroCenter and decided to grab some DVD D/L. There was this guy holding two CD spindles looking at one and then the other then back again. He asked me, "Do you know the difference?".

I went through the CD+ versus CD-, CDR / CD R/W and then the Audio CDs where they were exactly the same except a flag (and tax) preventing it from working in some players... The look I got was a Deer staring into headlights.

Do any of us really have a format loyalty or do we just want it to work? I can understand this crap and even I'm waiting for the universal player/writer. Maybe two formats is a good thing. I might use one format for active data and another for archiving.

I'll use neither until there's a universal player/writer.

-[d]-

Region Encoding

I'll switch when they decide to drop region encoding. I can deal with the copy protection to a certain extent, though I am not going to upgrade my TV just to be compatible with the players. For me the deal breaker is region encoding, since I do a fair bit of traveling and not being able to watch the movies I bought in Europe in Canada and vice versa is just a pain. DVD is cracked and available is a suitable form, so I will stay until there is sufficient incentive to switch.

To weigh in on this discussion...

...A buddy of mine is of the "must have everything new right this second" school of thinking...he owns one of the hybrid players. His reasoning is that certain movies only come out on blu-ray, while certain movies only come out on HD-DVD...the amount of disposable income that he has is entirely disgusting (he is a contract lawyer, his wife is an MD) so the money really means nothing to him.

In watching movies both on blu-ray and on HD-DVD, the picture quality is more or less identical. Sure, there are some subtle things here and there that an audio/videophile magazine might be critical of, but to the "normal" person the difference wouldn't really be anything to write home about.

As it stands, the only reasons why I would see someone going with one option over another option is thus: which flavour has the movies that you want on it, and how much money you are willing to spend up front. The presentation of either format is practically the same, and the differences are tiny enough that it shouldn't really matter.

I will, however, say this: while it COULD be considered only a marginal increase over DVD quality, if you play a movie that is on DVD, then play it's HD counterpart, and then play the DVD again...that "marginal increase" becomes "a massive difference."

Toshiba HD-A2 deals

Toshiba has also been pushing some deals and promotions on their entry-level HD-DVD player. As an example, when I recently purchased an LCD HDTV, I had the option of buying an HD-A2 for $0.01. Of course I accepted.

And no, this wasn't a "build the player cost into the TV" trick. The price I paid was $500 less than MSRP and about on-par with what the major online sites were selling the set for.

I personally think the format war is really hurting both camps. Just look at some past format wars...

SACD vs DVD-A? Neither, both are dead.

DVD+r/-r? Neither, both are equally supported after many years.

56Flex vs X2? Neither, we now have v.90 and of course broadband.

I'm waiting....

My response to the format wars was to buy an Oppo DV-981HD dvd player. This is the best upconverting dvd player you can buy, it's better than many selling for twice the price. This player will buy me time by making my current dvd collection viewable on my new HDTV. Eventually more companies will produce dual format machines and the format war will be over, as far as the consumer is concerned. Some patent holder will be left holding the bag, T.S.!

To answer a question, there is NOTHING obsolete about spinning disks. The process of mastering and pressing DVD/CD's is the most cost effective way to produce read only copies of media. On-line downloading of video content requires lots of bandwidth that is not available on the current inferstructure. Buying dvd's or renting them is a choice up to the individual. But with it being cheaper to buy a dvd then to take the family to the movies, dvd's will still sell. Even better, borrow a dvd from your public library!

wake me up . . .

Wake me up when a single player emerges that plays both formats and costs about $250. Until then, this is just so irrelevant. Except for the fact that this lack of a standard will delay my purchase of products in either format another year.

Publicity

They never supported BD in the first place. They're restating their policy to get attention.

Eagerly await the winner of the format wars...

Which will be the one who removes DRM entirely from their media.

$150 Million payout confirmed by NYT

This was indeed a paid for choice, they are probably making little money on either format right now so it seemed like easy money I guess:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21dis ney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800 &adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=118769814 3-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ [nytimes.com]

Though Paramount joins my shit list for extending the stupid war.

Michael Bay

Well I've just read that this move may cost them Michael Bay, for better or worse... [engadget.com]

dvd-blu-ray

This just like a bank being rob in our eyesight,they use us by telling us about a new dvd and then change in the middle of the game

Re:Don't forget about me!

You would have had a point if you mentioned UMD, but Sony made a lot of money on the Minidisc. Just because something isn't true in the United States, does mean it isn't everywhere.

Re:Typical Sony

"BluRay, please meet betamax."

I wouldn't call blu-ray the new betamax just yet, with Blockbuster already announcing they're carrying only blu-ray titles [forbes.com] primarily due to PS3 sales.

But you have a point. Sony doesn't have a great history of making formats that eventually become the standard. Minidisc? DAT? UMD movies [arstechnica.com]? If I was Sony I'd practically give away Blu-ray players just to get them out there, then in a year or two once it becomes a standard re-coop their costs in license fees. Microsoft has been doing this for years with the Xbox and Xbox360 [businessweek.com] but it was necessary to make them a major player in the console wars and at times Xbox has had the most sales [computeran...ogames.com].

Target sells HD DVD

While Sony got an exclusive on HD standalone players from Target for this holiday, Target has had will continue to sell the Xbox 360 HD DVD accessory and HD DVD titles.

It's amazing how much Sony can spin out of buying some retail end-caps :).

Re:What are the odds?

Your missing a few facts:

You are talking about consoles and watching movies, however, the battle will not be won there but with stand alones. Right now you can get a HD-DVD stand alone for $299 at Best Buy. The corresponding Blu-Ray player goes for $599 (double the cost). In just two months it will be Christmas season and guess what people will be buying? That's right the cheaper one. The $299 cost is the price point at which consumers jump on these things. That's why there has been a huge increase in sales. Blu-Ray may be ahead right now, but they will price themselves out of the market. The selling point for the HD-DVD will be something like this?

Why pay $600 when you buy ours for $300 and buy 15 movies to go with it for the same cost of just buying the other?

What's that? Your favorite movie isn't on this format yet? Wait to next year, they release it then.

And, btw Bourne Ultimatum is one of the movies which will be on HD-DVD, not Blu-Ray.

Re:Free Market Chose Blu-Ray

Those 2:1 ratio come from a world where a vast amount of the mainstream "next gen" movie players were sold as a trojan horse, so to speak. On top of (most likely) background deals, these studios MAY (thats the key word here, im just saying an hypothesis) feel that this is a situation that wont last...once most of those players sold are stand alone, blu ray would not be in their best interest (that is, it would have crushed HD-DVD, but only because no one aside hardcores and PS3 gamers got players...which isn't good in the long run), and thus they decided to try and shift the market.

A large amount of people buying blu ray disks didn't "choose" their player, it was "forced" on them, so to speak.

Re:What are the odds?

Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc. I think you need to get your facts straight. Lets go through that list of movies: 1. Pirates 3 - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 2. Spiderman 3 - Sony so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 3. Harry Potter - WB format neutral. In fact many of us are already enjoying the 4th Harry Potter movie on HD DVD 4. 300 - WB format neutral but with a better feature set on the HD DVD 5. Ratatouille - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 6. Simpsons - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 7. The Bourne Ultimatum - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 8. Die Hard - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 9. Knocked Up - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 10. Oceans 13 - WB so it is format neutral 11. Fantastic Four- I'm not sure on this one. It might be Blu-Ray exclusive since it is a Fox movie, but the first one was as well and it is available for import on HD DVD, so I'm going to guess this movie will be format neutral 12. Surf's Up - Sony so it's Blu-Ray exclusive 13. Rush Hour 3 - WB so it is format neutral As you can see less than half of the movies you listed are exclusive to Blu-Ray. I say the race is pretty even now.

Re:Free Market Chose Blu-Ray

Dropping Blu-Ray for HD-DVD is like dumping your super model girlfriend to date Rosie O'Donnell.

For $100 Million, I'd date Rosie O'Donnell. Apparently, so would Paramount.

Re:What are the odds?

The last big showdown was supposed to be two months back when The Matrix movies were all released exclusively on HD-DVD the same weekend as Pirates 1 and 2 being released exclusively on Blu-Ray. Pirates stomped all over HD-DVD.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your omission of the price disparity between these two products ($25 each for PotC vs $100/$120 for Matrix) was an accidental oversight.

Re:What are the odds?

"Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc."

Ummmm... HDDVD has 300:
http://www.amazon.com/300-Combo-HD-DVD-Standard/dp /B000Q6GXW2/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0798074-8278442?ie=UT F8&s=dvd&qid=1187675216&sr=8-2 [amazon.com]

It doesn't have the Bourne Ultimatum, but it at least has The Bourne Identity... I figure "Ultimatum" is coming soon:
http://www.amazon.com/Bourne-Identity-HD-DVD/dp/B0 00QEIOTO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_11/002-0798074-8278442?ie=U TF8&s=dvd&qid=1187675303&sr=8-11 [amazon.com]

And I don't give a rat's ass about "Pirates 3" because HD-DVD has "Pirates":
http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Three-Collectors-Unr ated-All-region/dp/B000NY7L8C/ref=pd_bbs_7/002-079 8074-8278442?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187675216&sr=8-7 [amazon.com]
CHICKA BOW BOW!

The pr0n industry WILL be the deciding factor in the hi def wars. Remember... for every family out there that is looking at getting a hi def player, daddy needs to be able to watch his pr0n. ...and yes, I did just buy into the HD-DVD camp. I put my money where my mouth is on rootkit-bastard hating, TYVM.

-q

In the same way it chose Internet Explorer

BluRay is bundled with PS3; that's the only reason that the market "chose" it.

Re:uh oh

I'd have to say "too bad" to Mr. Bay, seeing as the last paragraph of the article mentions that Universal backs HD-DVD exclusively...I'm not sure what percentage of all "major" motion pictures in existence fall under the umbrella of Universal + Paramount, but that's got to be a significant slice of the pie. Maybe he won't direct a "Transformers 2", but I'm thinking they can probably scare up a director worthy of the task, if it comes to that.

I'd watch for Blockbuster to change their "Blu-Ray only" stance in the future once customers realize that they can't rent a significant number of new titles there because of them being in the wrong format.

Not saying that Blu-Ray can't pull a rabbit out of the hat and come back from this, but it does seem to be a big setback for the format and its current supporters.

Re:Free Market Chose Blu-Ray

Consumers have spoken and they prefer Blu-Ray by a 2-to-1 margin.

And who are these consumers? Essentially PS3 owner who don't have any games.

Sony should pray that their fanbois continue to buy the PS3 and hope that no third party studio releases games that people actually want to play, the moment that happens the market for the Blu-Ray discs will fall away.

Re:What are the odds?

Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc.

Harry Potter --> Warner Brothers, so it will be on HD DVD as well, and in the past the HD DVD releases had more features than the Blu-Ray releases, Video was the same as Warner does only one encode.

300 --> Warner, on HD DVD as well, and again with more features than the Blu-Ray version.

The Bourne Ultimatum --> Universal Studios, definitely not going to be on Blu-Ray anytime soon.

Knocked Up --> Universal Studios again, so no Blu-Ray for you!

Oceans 13 --> Warner Brothers, so it will be dual format again.

Hire a fact checker next time.