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Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Aug 20, 2007 07:43 PM
from the eggs-and-baskets dept.
JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."

Related Stories

[+] NYT Confirms Movie Studios Paid to Support HD DVD 441 comments
An anonymous reader writes "The New York Times has confirmed the story that Paramount and DreamWorks Animation were paid $150 million for an exclusive HD-DVD deal that will last 18 months. 'Paramount and DreamWorks Animation declined to comment. Microsoft, the most prominent technology company supporting HD DVDs, said it could not rule out payment but said it wrote no checks. "We provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks whatsoever," said Amir Majidimehr, the head of Microsoft's consumer media technology group.'" We discussed Paramount's defection on Monday.
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  • Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by taskiss (94652) on Monday August 20, @07:46PM (#20299027)
    I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.
    • Re:Yeah, right. by cyphercell (Score:3) Monday August 20, @07:50PM
      • Re:Yeah, right. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday August 20, @07:55PM
      • Re:Yeah, right. by taskiss (Score:3) Monday August 20, @07:56PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Araxen (561411) on Monday August 20, @08:28PM (#20299345)
        I'm backing whomever gets sub $100 first. Blu-ray doesn't appear to be too aggressive in the pricing part of this war. The dvd's themselves are a stalemate are far as I'm concerned. I'll be surprised if any studio will actually fill up an entire blu-ray dvd to make HD-DVD look that much more inferior of a format so it all comes down to price for me.

        The studios will go wherever the biggest user base is eventually.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Yeah, right. by ResidntGeek (Score:2) Monday August 20, @09:33PM
          • Re:Yeah, right. by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Monday August 20, @11:03PM
          • Re:Yeah, right. by Seumas (Score:3) Tuesday August 21, @12:08AM
            • Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Informative)

              by ResidntGeek (772730) on Tuesday August 21, @12:18AM (#20301043)
              HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.
              [ Parent ]
              • > by Seumas (6865) on Tuesday August 21, @01:08AM (#20300997)
                > My understanding is that HD-DVD does not do uncompressed audio
                > like Blu-Ray. That alone is enough to sell me on Blu-Ray. I
                > spent $20,000 on the audio system for my home entertainment
                > center and I want the best quality media. I don't care if I
                > can buy a HD-DVD player for $100 cheaper than a Blu-Ray --
                > if the quality isn't there, it isn't of interest.

                > by ResidntGeek (772730) on Tuesday August 21, @01:18AM (#20301043)
                > HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.

                I like how that guy spent $20,000 on audio equipment, but can't do 30 seconds of research. I really need some clients like him. :)
                [ Parent ]
              • Lack of capacity is a limiting factor by aristotle-dude (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @12:21PM
              • Re:Yeah, right. by Whiteox (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @12:51AM
              • Re:Yeah, right. by Kris_J (Score:3) Tuesday August 21, @01:11AM
              • Re:Yeah, right. by MayorDefacto (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @12:37PM
              • Re:Yeah, right. by Seumas (Score:1) Friday August 24, @03:38PM
              • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)

              by WARM3CH (662028) on Tuesday August 21, @02:40AM (#20301767)
              LPCM support is mandatory for both standards. However, you maybe surprised to know that Dolby TrueHD, which is a lossless compression method, is mandatory for HD-DVD and is only optional for Blue-ray. As a result, most of the HD-DVD titles come with the audio compressed with TrueHD and no LPCM (selecting only one of the mandatory options), saving between 2:1 to 4:1 on storage space while blue-ray titles, should always carry the LPCM soundtrack and in practice rarely include a TrueHD track. Carrying only LPCM means that all other nice features of TureHD is going to be missed: dialog normalization, Dynamic range compression, downmixing to any arbitrary number of channels, etc...
              [ Parent ]
            • Re:Yeah, right. by donaldm (Score:3) Tuesday August 21, @03:27AM
            • Re:Yeah, right. by rufo (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @07:22AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Yeah, right. by Charcharodon (Score:3) Tuesday August 21, @04:53AM
        • Re:Yeah, right. by LordSnooty (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @06:45AM
        • Sub $100? Don't waste my time. by stewbacca (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @10:01AM
        • Re:Yeah, right. by Alzheimers (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @10:28AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • So which one do we support? by Ed Avis (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @03:30AM
      • Re:Yeah, right. by jellomizer (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @06:46AM
    • Re:Yeah, right. by Virgil Tibbs (Score:1) Monday August 20, @07:51PM
    • Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Technician (215283) on Monday August 20, @08:20PM (#20299281)
      I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.

      Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.

      "Paramount's move comes weeks after Blockbuster, the DVD rental chain, said it would stock more Blu-ray discs to cope with rising consumer demand."

      From the article here;
      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8569e16-4f61-11dc-b485- 0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b 5df10621.html [ft.com]

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Yeah, right. by donaldm (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @02:41AM
    • Re:Yeah, right. by Bertie (Score:3) Tuesday August 21, @04:52AM
      • Re:Yeah, right. by Wiseman1024 (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @05:46AM
      • Re:Yeah, right. by Serengeti (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @08:18AM
      • The "only" major backing? (Score:4, Informative)

        by KingSkippus (799657) * on Tuesday August 21, @10:04AM (#20304821)
        (http://skippus.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday June 19 2005, @07:25AM)

        I don't know where you heard this, but HD-DVD has many more backers than "only" Toshiba and Microsoft. Here is a short list [wikipedia.org]. Also, keep in mind that HD-DVD is the format supported by the DVD Forum [wikipedia.org], aka the DVD consortium, the builders and maintainers of the original DVD format, which means that every company that backs DVDs is indirectly backing HD-DVD, whether they want to or not.

        And while it's true that a common misconception is that Sony "owns" Blu-ray, it's also true that Sony is THE major backer and has the most at stake in Blu-ray winning the format war. The movie studios are still on the fence. Even the studios that released Blu-ray versions of movies have only released minor movies and old movies, and could switch at the drop of a hat at any time. Ditto Blockbuster video. If Blu-ray suddenly and dramatically lost the format war to HD-DVD, they wouldn't be impacted very much. (They've planned it that way, incidentally.) However, Sony sold its soul in including the Blu-ray drive in its PS3, and if the format fails, they'll be FUBAR.

        Of course, I personally don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will win the format war. The next major format is not media at all; it's network delivery of content. Ten years from now, the concept of having to put a disc into a drive to watch a movie will seem quaint.

        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Yeah, right. FUD by aristotle-dude (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @12:17PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • The End of this Format War? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by the eric conspiracy (20178) on Monday August 20, @07:49PM (#20299047)
    I sure hope so. I've been holding off buying into one of these technologies until the format war ends. This sounds like it could be the beginning of the end.

  • I wonder... (Score:1)

    by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) on Monday August 20, @07:51PM (#20299063)
    Will this make Sony feel...blue?
  • What's the Motive? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Rorzabal (1138403) on Monday August 20, @07:51PM (#20299067)
    I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?
    It seems to me that they are trying to steer towards a format that contains half the data storage capacity with the goal of having yet another format go obsolete sooner rather than later. They must make a ton of money when people re-purchase titles on a new format. Soon these same studios will be 'crying' because they don't have enough data space on a disc, therefore they have to push a new standard.
  • Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FreeKill (1020271) on Monday August 20, @07:55PM (#20299083)
    (http://www.bookmarkbliss.com/)
    I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...
  • by AskChopper (1077519) * on Monday August 20, @07:56PM (#20299101)
    (http://www.askchopper.com/)

    "''Spider-Man 3'' will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format when it is released by Sony Pictures, while people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller ''The Bourne Ultimatum,'' which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD."

    I hear a slow, solemn, lazy church bell ringing in the background.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, @07:56PM (#20299105)
  • by SyncNine (532248) on Monday August 20, @07:57PM (#20299121)
    I don't think this was the best time for Paramount to jump ship on the Blu-ray line. While they _may_ have looked at the numbers involved, units sold, etc., all of that data was over the last year or so. What they didn't really consider was that a lot of non-videophile (aka., people who would buy a specific HD-DVD / Blu-ray player) purchasers were going to start purchasing PS3s...

    With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources [kotaku.com]., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.

    Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined. [deadlineho...ddaily.com]

    I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.

    Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then ...
  • Money Talks (Score:5, Informative)

    Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.

    - js.

    http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm [tvpredictions.com]
  • Interesting (Score:1)

    by Stevecrox (962208) on Monday August 20, @08:00PM (#20299143)
    (Last Journal: Monday May 07 2007, @07:13PM)
    I has thought HD DVD was dead, in m home city in the UK there are only four shops selling "next gen" disc's. Virgin Megastore which only has a collection of Blue Ray films at the insane price of £25+, Anouther Virgin Megastore (yes my city centre has two) which has Blue Ray discs and a small bay of HDDVD discs (half the display of blueray) and the other two are Woowoths and Game both of which sell them because they sell PS3's. Afer nosing around those places as wellas Son,panasonic,comet,dixons and a audiophile shop I've only seen blueray players.

    Since I now own a PS3 I might buy a Bluray film if its as cheap as a DVD but to be honest I can't see a difference, i is bugging my that Shrek the Third, Transformers and Bourne Ultimatium are alll goingto be HDDVD only they were the only three films I've liked all year.
  • Why?! (Score:1, Troll)

    by erroneus (253617) on Monday August 20, @08:03PM (#20299157)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Too much porn on Blu-ray now?
    • Re:Why?! by redneckHippe (Score:2) Monday August 20, @08:28PM
      • Re:Why?! by Tofuik (Score:1) Monday August 20, @08:53PM
  • Hey, Toshiba! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mr. Roadkill (731328) on Monday August 20, @08:07PM (#20299187)
    The Victor Company of Japan called.

    They said they want their market disruption techniques back.
  • that they would choose HD-DVD, when Blu-Ray's the one that hasn't been totally pwned, yet.

    But yeah, doesn't matter to me, I'll just download for free until they make the price more convenient than dealing with the piratebay.  Not that hard to do, really.  Three or four bucks?  I'd go for that, every time.

    All day long.
  • I guess in the end we will end up with both formats, just like with DVD+ and -.

    Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!

    What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap :)
  • (That's irony).

    Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.

    As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.

    Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.

    As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.
  • It is nowhere near over yet. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Secrity (742221) on Monday August 20, @08:30PM (#20299361)
    Neither format has caught on at all, and the only players that are in homes in any sort of numbers are the PS3. I think that most people who have a PS3 bought it as a gaming machine and don't care that it can play any sort of DVD. Any format decision made by any studio is subject to change without notice; if Blu-Ray becomes dominant I am sure that Paramount will make Blu-Ray disks. Other than all of the major studios going to only one format, the only significant format change by a studio would be if Sony started to sell their movies in HD-DVD.

    It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.
  • by pembo13 (770295) on Monday August 20, @08:34PM (#20299379)
    (http://www.pembo13.com/)
    to use on Linux, after having paid for the appropriate hardware? Or are we required to pay for the hardware + Windows + software + disk?
  • Are we there yet? (Score:4, Insightful)

    It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.

    Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.

    It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.

    Cheers,

    b&

  • Are missing out.

    Last I checked, physical disks costs $100 for 500GB in a USB enclosure. That's faster than Blu-Ray can write, cheaper, and portable. Most games and media will fit onto an HD-DVD EASILY. If you're backing up to Blu-Ray discs then I think you silly. Even USB sticks can hold 4GB on them, and the next generation will 'up' that even higher. Again, faster writes, and cheaper pricing.

    Personally, I want HD-DVD to win the 'format' war, because in reality, it's going to be the LAST physical format. The 'next' generation is going to be streaming media entirely. Look at how long it took for people to move from VHS to DVD -- oh wait, they still haven't! The same is true for a physical format like HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I just want what will be cheaper in the long run. I can go to WalMart now and pick up a DVD for $5. Do you think I will ever be able to pick up a $5 Blu-Ray disc? Won't happen. Sony has a bad history in terms of media and closed formats, and BR will be no exception. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce, and that means as factories convert, it will be even MORE cheap. And the plus is that a lot of HD-DVDs are dual sided, one side being the HD content, the other being a regular DVD.

    This 'war' is just idiotic -- just choose the cheaper format and move on. Or do you want to get higher pricing on your media, so that when the streaming content comes along and costs virtually NOTHING, that you are arguing it down from a higher price?

    It's going to be harder to say "Hey, you were paying $30 for that BR disc, now you can pay $20 for streaming media."

    Or would you rather say "Hey, you were paying $15 for that HD-DVD, now you can pay $10 for streaming content."

    I know which one I'd pick.
  • by Bullfish (858648) on Monday August 20, @08:44PM (#20299459)
    now that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the studios pretty much split between them, they guarantee that the best selling players are going to be the dual format players. If you consider that most people don't have an HDTV, by the time they do such players will be plentiful. Who wouldn't buy one under those conditions? Executives at Paramount and other studios can look forward to many bidding wars for exclusives on the releases of blockbusters. All they have to do is not sell total studio commitment to a format and just do it piecemeal via movie.

  • The only way to win is not to play (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vanyel (28049) * on Monday August 20, @08:47PM (#20299493)
    (Last Journal: Thursday August 28 2003, @02:54PM)
    Just reiterates my resolve that I'll buy a player when there's a decent dual-format player.
  • I am backing whoever defeats DRM so I can connect an HDMI cable to my MythTV box and record.watch Hi-Def content. Until that happens I will record analog only and get the High-Def content through other channels.
  • irrelevant... (Score:2)

    by aapold (753705) on Monday August 20, @08:49PM (#20299509)
    (http://agh2o.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday September 19 2006, @02:56PM)
    I mean, the disc, any format, is obsolete, and this just helps push downloading as the primary format. HD-DVDs are cheaper to manufacture? Downloads have no manufacturing cost.

    Everything else aside, I realized I don't buy DVDs to watch them again. How many times can you watch one thing? I buy stuff when I like it enough that I want to hand to other people I think should watch it. And on occasion to kind of show support for something like a show that was cancelled.. but that's not that common. 99% of the time they just sit there, taking up space.
  • by Starker_Kull (896770) on Monday August 20, @08:50PM (#20299527)
    Preferably, in a long, extremely expensive way. Then, maybe, a standard without all the fancy DRM nonsense laced into it that actually gives purchasers a benefit might come out.

    While I'm dreaming, maybe Microsoft will adopt the Linux kernel and open source its next OS as well.

  • Weaker DRM in HD-DVD (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Monday August 20, @09:05PM (#20299653)
    HD-DVD has a weaker DRM system since it doesn't have the BD+ capabilities of BluRay. Hey, that's a plus for the (worse) standard.

    As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.

  • by Skapare (16644) on Monday August 20, @09:06PM (#20299661)
    (http://linuxhomepage.com/)

    Adobe went with Blu-Ray as the only high definition recordable disk supported by their Adobe® Premiere® Pro CS3 editing suite. You can see the list of what works here [adobe.com].

  • by llZENll (545605) on Monday August 20, @09:11PM (#20299705)
    Paramount is the biggest studio of 2007 with 18% market share.

    January 1-August 19, 2007
    Overall Gross: $6.585 billion
    Rank Distributor Market
    Share Total
    Gross* Movies
    Tracked 2007
    Movies**
    1 Paramount 18.1% $1,189.5 15 11
    2 Warner Bros. 14.8% $974.8 23 13
    3 Buena Vista 14.1% $930.6 16 8
    4 Sony / Columbia 14.0% $924.6 19 16
    5 Universal 11.3% $745.0 13 11
    6 20th Century Fox 10.9% $719.9 17 9

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/ [boxofficemojo.com]
  • _Deadline Hollywood Daily_ is reporting that HD-DVD promoters paid Paramount and Dreamworks $150M to switch [deadlineho...ddaily.com]. At least $150M: that's just a couple of immediate deals. $150M is enough for those studios to produce at least one or two movies, either of which could return $300-500M even before being released... on HD-DVD.
  • Taking too long (Score:2)

    by ishmalius (153450) on Monday August 20, @09:43PM (#20299959)
    First the spec development process, then the time-to-market, and now the market shakeup are all making certain that both standards will be obsolete by the time that one of them has one their little war.

    Neither one is anywhere near cutting edge any more, as technology marches on.
  • by RobBebop (947356) on Monday August 20, @09:54PM (#20300063)

    These competing standards (that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) are both losers. When I go buy movies, I still buy DVDs (despite having an HD TV for 3+ years). Know why? Because it plays in my player.

    Eventually, a common player will be affordable for both HD and Blu. At that point, do you know who will win my business? That's right... Netflix. With the industry proving to me that ownership is dumb... I've gone from buying 3-5 DVDs a month to 1 every three months. When I get an upgraded player, I don't expect that there will ever be a movie that I'll want to own.

    Am I wrong, or has the format "war" done nothing but alienated consumers and shown that companies are too egotistical to work together to create standards that are actually beneficial to the end users... and for that, I trust them as far as I can throw them.

  • by stabiesoft (733417) on Monday August 20, @10:03PM (#20300119)
    (http://www.stabie-soft.com/)
    I think paramount is probably accepting a wad of cash for a limited exclusive period. I mean really, 100mil and maybe a 1 year lockin to HD-DVD. If bluray has won in a year, they'll start pressing BD's again. If HD wins, then they just keep pressing HD's. I doubt they'll make 100mil off bluray this year, so its a big win money wise, and really thats all the suits care about.
  • by Locutus (9039) on Monday August 20, @10:21PM (#20300255)
    As soon as I read the headline, I was reminded of the DreamWorks clan( Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg ) all wearing Microsoft "BoB" hats back when Microsoft reinvented the user interface of the future. It was a short time after that when we all saw Bill Gates join in the mug shots as they all announced the DreamWorks Interactive partnership( Microsoft and DreamWorks ).

    So, what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this? Is there any wonder why Katzenberg is committing to back the HD DVD format of a very wealthy financial partner? HD-DVD is as much Microsofts format as it is Toshiba's IMO.

    LoB
  • by Orthuberra (1145497) on Monday August 20, @11:07PM (#20300599)
    Plus the PS3 can run Linux! I wonder why the Xbox 360 doesn't have a linux distro to tie in with?
  • by liftphreaker (972707) on Monday August 20, @11:54PM (#20300939)
    Who cares? Until BR/HD are completely broken like DVD is today, I won't spend a penny on them. Crippling my ability to backup my own media is a sure way of pissing me off and looking elsewhere. I can't tell you how many times the kids have scratched or damaged a DVD, only to be replaced by a backup I'd made. Thanks but no thanks.
  • by Swift2001 (874553) on Tuesday August 21, @12:21AM (#20301061)
    I tell you what, neither of these s.o.b.'s are getting my money. Priority one: get the player price down. Priority two: drop DRM. Priority three: get the hell out of the way.

    I was arguing with an audiofile the other day. He was saying how awful digital music is, especially mp3s and other compressed formats. I know he's right, of course. Give me a $20,000 system in an acoustically prepared room, and it'll blow the socks off the 1% of the population (or less) that can afford it.

    Or take the other tack: exchange mp3s over the internet, or buy them cheaply. They sound good enough on a system that costs a few hundred. The cost of becoming an expert is a few thousand, and largely free. Paricipate in the music of your generation. Swim in it. Is that not more important than the snobbish moron who spends all his money on the REPRODUCTION of sound, which is an industrial process that makes you passive, or listen to a wide swath of music, and if someone special's in town, hear them in perfect fidelity: go to hear the music, live. That's music is the digital age. The price we pay is less-deatiled sound. But it's also more participatory. Learn to make music. Be a fan. Get to understand flatted fifths, diminished ninths -- or learn to play, for God's sake. Most of the musicians I know DON'T have fancy stereos. They hear the real thing every night, coming out of the end of their fingers.

    In other words, that old guy Marshall McLuhan knew what he was talking about after all. TV was cool, but it's not "cool" anymore. Sharing stuff over the net is REALLY cool.

    It's the same with movies. The catalog is very big now. Thw world movie library is enormous. Do you want to give up your living room to an absurdly large screen, and pay someone twenty dollars to see a movie that you will watch in glorious color once? No. Give me lower detail that can be shared and swapped. Make a Library of World Cinema that can be copied and watched. I'll download Bergman, if you don't mind. I'll even pony up three or four dollars, though I'd prefer to use a lending library formula. Maybe my city government, or state, could pay, just like public libraries.

    Anyway, who cares about Hi-Def? It's nice, no doubt, but if the cost is paying these idiots a fortune for Steve Gutenberg in 1080p, I'll sit this dance out.
  • That is probably why they are being dropped and they played along wiht Sony so far because they did not want to miss out in case it became standard.

    This is how Sony lost to VHS. All the vcr makers viewed them as competitors so they supported VHS. Same with IBM and OS/2 vs WIndows. IBM is a mean monopoly so support the underdog which is windows.

  • There is only one thing that has prevented me from buying a player: There is no single format supported by all of the movie studios. Give me that, and I'd be much more willing to buy in.

    Unfortunately, this is a step away from that. As usual, it's all about the software, not the technology. Unless the software I want is available in the format I want, I can convince myself to keep waiting. I'm inclined towards HD-DVD, but this doesn't help motivate me.
  • Just insane (Score:2)

    by DrXym (126579) on Tuesday August 21, @04:31AM (#20302243)
    This decision makes no business sense at all unless someone is lining their pockets with a lot of money to switch over. Certainly it can't be because HD-DVD is superior or anything else because it isn't. If Microsoft is behind the move, I predict lawsuits over this. If they're manipulating the HD format wars to prolong them so that their download service wins out, that would strike me as absolutely anti-competitive behaviour.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Star Trek II (Score:1)

    by FiveLights (1012605) on Tuesday August 21, @07:26AM (#20303013)
    I don't care about any of this HD format stuff. I've got an HDTV but I'm not going to plunk down hundreds of dollars on something that may, or may not, be the format for the next ten years. Until Star Trek II comes out on one of the formats. Then I buy a player the next day.


  • I don't think the format war will ever be *settled*. Instead, there will be a universal player/writer that solves the format problem.

    I was at a MicroCenter and decided to grab some DVD D/L. There was this guy holding two CD spindles looking at one and then the other then back again. He asked me, "Do you know the difference?".

    I went through the CD+ versus CD-, CDR / CD R/W and then the Audio CDs where they were exactly the same except a flag (and tax) preventing it from working in some players... The look I got was a Deer staring into headlights.

    Do any of us really have a format loyalty or do we just want it to work? I can understand this crap and even I'm waiting for the universal player/writer. Maybe two formats is a good thing. I might use one format for active data and another for archiving.

    I'll use neither until there's a universal player/writer.

    -[d]-

  • Region Encoding (Score:2)

    by Midnight Thunder (17205) on Tuesday August 21, @09:55AM (#20304673)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday February 05 2005, @03:50AM)
    I'll switch when they decide to drop region encoding. I can deal with the copy protection to a certain extent, though I am not going to upgrade my TV just to be compatible with the players. For me the deal breaker is region encoding, since I do a fair bit of traveling and not being able to watch the movies I bought in Europe in Canada and vice versa is just a pain. DVD is cracked and available is a suitable form, so I will stay until there is sufficient incentive to switch.
  • by Pojut (1027544) on Tuesday August 21, @10:12AM (#20304923)
    ...A buddy of mine is of the "must have everything new right this second" school of thinking...he owns one of the hybrid players. His reasoning is that certain movies only come out on blu-ray, while certain movies only come out on HD-DVD...the amount of disposable income that he has is entirely disgusting (he is a contract lawyer, his wife is an MD) so the money really means nothing to him.

    In watching movies both on blu-ray and on HD-DVD, the picture quality is more or less identical. Sure, there are some subtle things here and there that an audio/videophile magazine might be critical of, but to the "normal" person the difference wouldn't really be anything to write home about.

    As it stands, the only reasons why I would see someone going with one option over another option is thus: which flavour has the movies that you want on it, and how much money you are willing to spend up front. The presentation of either format is practically the same, and the differences are tiny enough that it shouldn't really matter.

    I will, however, say this: while it COULD be considered only a marginal increase over DVD quality, if you play a movie that is on DVD, then play it's HD counterpart, and then play the DVD again...that "marginal increase" becomes "a massive difference."
  • by wizman (116087) on Tuesday August 21, @10:45AM (#20305493)
    Toshiba has also been pushing some deals and promotions on their entry-level HD-DVD player. As an example, when I recently purchased an LCD HDTV, I had the option of buying an HD-A2 for $0.01. Of course I accepted.

    And no, this wasn't a "build the player cost into the TV" trick. The price I paid was $500 less than MSRP and about on-par with what the major online sites were selling the set for.

    I personally think the format war is really hurting both camps. Just look at some past format wars...

    SACD vs DVD-A? Neither, both are dead.

    DVD+r/-r? Neither, both are equally supported after many years.

    56Flex vs X2? Neither, we now have v.90 and of course broadband.
  • I'm waiting.... (Score:2)

    by scharkalvin (72228) on Tuesday August 21, @10:55AM (#20305649)
    (http://www.qsl.net/wa2mze)
    My response to the format wars was to buy an Oppo DV-981HD dvd player. This is the best upconverting dvd player you can buy, it's better than many selling for twice the price. This player will buy me time by making my current dvd collection viewable on my new HDTV. Eventually more companies will produce dual format machines and the format war will be over, as far as the consumer is concerned. Some patent holder will be left holding the bag, T.S.!

    To answer a question, there is NOTHING obsolete about spinning disks. The process of mastering and pressing DVD/CD's is the most cost effective way to produce read only copies of media. On-line downloading of video content requires lots of bandwidth that is not available on the current inferstructure. Buying dvd's or renting them is a choice up to the individual. But with it being cheaper to buy a dvd then to take the family to the movies, dvd's will still sell. Even better, borrow a dvd from your public library!
  • by Snaffler (311068) on Tuesday August 21, @11:11AM (#20305959)
    Wake me up when a single player emerges that plays both formats and costs about $250. Until then, this is just so irrelevant. Except for the fact that this lack of a standard will delay my purchase of products in either format another year.
  • Publicity (Score:2)

    by heroine (1220) on Tuesday August 21, @12:16PM (#20306967)
    (http://heroinewarrior.com/)
    They never supported BD in the first place. They're restating their policy to get attention.
  • by GuyverDH (232921) on Tuesday August 21, @02:36PM (#20309229)
    Which will be the one who removes DRM entirely from their media.
  • by guidryp (702488) on Tuesday August 21, @03:43PM (#20310279)
    This was indeed a paid for choice, they are probably making little money on either format right now so it seemed like easy money I guess:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21dis ney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800 &adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=118769814 3-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ [nytimes.com]

    Though Paramount joins my shit list for extending the stupid war.
  • Michael Bay (Score:2)

    by Trogre (513942) on Tuesday August 21, @07:04PM (#20312471)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Well I've just read that this move may cost them Michael Bay, for better or worse... [engadget.com]

  • dvd-blu-ray (Score:1)

    by jesse285 (1145913) on Sunday August 26, @07:19PM (#20366653)
    (http://hotmail.com/)
    This just like a bank being rob in our eyesight,they use us by telling us about a new dvd and then change in the middle of the game
  • by G Fab (1142219) on Monday August 20, @08:55PM (#20299559)
    You would have had a point if you mentioned UMD, but Sony made a lot of money on the Minidisc. Just because something isn't true in the United States, does mean it isn't everywhere.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Typical Sony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iamhassi (659463) on Monday August 20, @09:32PM (#20299877)
    (Last Journal: Thursday February 16 2006, @06:22PM)
    "BluRay, please meet betamax."

    I wouldn't call blu-ray the new betamax just yet, with Blockbuster already announcing they're carrying only blu-ray titles [forbes.com] primarily due to PS3 sales.

    But you have a point. Sony doesn't have a great history of making formats that eventually become the standard. Minidisc? DAT? UMD movies [arstechnica.com]? If I was Sony I'd practically give away Blu-ray players just to get them out there, then in a year or two once it becomes a standard re-coop their costs in license fees. Microsoft has been doing this for years with the Xbox and Xbox360 [businessweek.com] but it was necessary to make them a major player in the console wars and at times Xbox has had the most sales [computeran...ogames.com].
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Typical Sony by Ralph Spoilsport (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @07:00AM
      • Re:Typical Sony by Ralph Spoilsport (Score:2) Tuesday August 21, @12:33PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • While Sony got an exclusive on HD standalone players from Target for this holiday, Target has had will continue to sell the Xbox 360 HD DVD accessory and HD DVD titles.

    It's amazing how much Sony can spin out of buying some retail end-caps :).
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:What are the odds? (Score:3, Interesting)

    Your missing a few facts:

    You are talking about consoles and watching movies, however, the battle will not be won there but with stand alones. Right now you can get a HD-DVD stand alone for $299 at Best Buy. The corresponding Blu-Ray player goes for $599 (double the cost). In just two months it will be Christmas season and guess what people will be buying? That's right the cheaper one. The $299 cost is the price point at which consumers jump on these things. That's why there has been a huge increase in sales. Blu-Ray may be ahead right now, but they will price themselves out of the market. The selling point for the HD-DVD will be something like this?

    Why pay $600 when you buy ours for $300 and buy 15 movies to go with it for the same cost of just buying the other?

    What's that? Your favorite movie isn't on this format yet? Wait to next year, they release it then.

    And, btw Bourne Ultimatum is one of the movies which will be on HD-DVD, not Blu-Ray.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:What are the odds? by Enderandrew (Score:2) Monday August 20, @09:58PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • FYI by stabiesoft (Score:1) Tuesday August 21, @09:55AM
  • by Shados (741919) on Monday August 20, @09:50PM (#20300031)
    Those 2:1 ratio come from a world where a vast amount of the mainstream "next gen" movie players were sold as a trojan horse, so to speak. On top of (most likely) background deals, these studios MAY (thats the key word here, im just saying an hypothesis) feel that this is a situation that wont last...once most of those players sold are stand alone, blu ray would not be in their best interest (that is, it would have crushed HD-DVD, but only because no one aside hardcores and PS3 gamers got players...which isn't good in the long run), and thus they decided to try and shift the market.

    A large amount of people buying blu ray disks didn't "choose" their player, it was "forced" on them, so to speak.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:What are the odds? (Score:3, Informative)

    by docdude316 (836485) on Monday August 20, @10:25PM (#20300279)
    Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc. I think you need to get your facts straight. Lets go through that list of movies: 1. Pirates 3 - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 2. Spiderman 3 - Sony so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 3. Harry Potter - WB format neutral. In fact many of us are already enjoying the 4th Harry Potter movie on HD DVD 4. 300 - WB format neutral but with a better feature set on the HD DVD 5. Ratatouille - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 6. Simpsons - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 7. The Bourne Ultimatum - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 8. Die Hard - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 9. Knocked Up - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 10. Oceans 13 - WB so it is format neutral 11. Fantastic Four- I'm not sure on this one. It might be Blu-Ray exclusive since it is a Fox movie, but the first one was as well and it is available for import on HD DVD, so I'm going to guess this movie will be format neutral 12. Surf's Up - Sony so it's Blu-Ray exclusive 13. Rush Hour 3 - WB so it is format neutral As you can see less than half of the movies you listed are exclusive to Blu-Ray. I say the race is pretty even now.
    [ Parent ]
  • by karmatic (776420) on Monday August 20, @10:40PM (#20300377)
    Dropping Blu-Ray for HD-DVD is like dumping your super model girlfriend to date Rosie O'Donnell.

    For $100 Million, I'd date Rosie O'Donnell. Apparently, so would Paramount.
    [ Parent ]
  • by I'll Provide The War (1045190) on Tuesday August 21, @12:11AM (#20301003)

    The last big showdown was supposed to be two months back when The Matrix movies were all released exclusively on HD-DVD the same weekend as Pirates 1 and 2 being released exclusively on Blu-Ray. Pirates stomped all over HD-DVD.
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your omission of the price disparity between these two products ($25 each for PotC vs $100/$120 for Matrix) was an accidental oversight.

    [ Parent ]
  • by Qfour20 (181633) on Tuesday August 21, @12:55AM (#20301245)
    "Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc."

    Ummmm... HDDVD has 300:
    http://www.amazon.com/300-Combo-HD-DVD-Standard/dp /B000Q6GXW2/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0798074-8278442?ie=UT F8&s=dvd&qid=1187675216&sr=8-2 [amazon.com]

    It doesn't have the Bourne Ultimatum, but it at least has The Bourne Identity... I figure "Ultimatum" is coming soon:
    http://www.amazon.com/Bourne-Identity-HD-DVD/dp/B0 00QEIOTO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_11/002-0798074-8278442?ie=U TF8&s=dvd&qid=1187675303&sr=8-11 [amazon.com]

    And I don't give a rat's ass about "Pirates 3" because HD-DVD has "Pirates":
    http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Three-Collectors-Unr ated-All-region/dp/B000NY7L8C/ref=pd_bbs_7/002-079 8074-8278442?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187675216&sr=8-7 [amazon.com]
    CHICKA BOW BOW!

    The pr0n industry WILL be the deciding factor in the hi def wars. Remember... for every family out there that is looking at getting a hi def player, daddy needs to be able to watch his pr0n. ...and yes, I did just buy into the HD-DVD camp. I put my money where my mouth is on rootkit-bastard hating, TYVM.

    -q
    [ Parent ]
  • BluRay is bundled with PS3; that's the only reason that the market "chose" it.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:uh oh (Score:2)

    by drakaan (688386) on Tuesday August 21, @10:20AM (#20305033)
    (http://www.myspace.com/chrisstovall)

    I'd have to say "too bad" to Mr. Bay, seeing as the last paragraph of the article mentions that Universal backs HD-DVD exclusively...I'm not sure what percentage of all "major" motion pictures in existence fall under the umbrella of Universal + Paramount, but that's got to be a significant slice of the pie. Maybe he won't direct a "Transformers 2", but I'm thinking they can probably scare up a director worthy of the task, if it comes to that.

    I'd watch for Blockbuster to change their "Blu-Ray only" stance in the future once customers realize that they can't rent a significant number of new titles there because of them being in the wrong format.

    Not saying that Blu-Ray can't pull a rabbit out of the hat and come back from this, but it does seem to be a big setback for the format and its current supporters.

    [ Parent ]
  • Consumers have spoken and they prefer Blu-Ray by a 2-to-1 margin.
    And who are these consumers? Essentially PS3 owner who don't have any games.

    Sony should pray that their fanbois continue to buy the PS3 and hope that no third party studio releases games that people actually want to play, the moment that happens the market for the Blu-Ray discs will fall away.
    [ Parent ]
  • Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc.


    Harry Potter --> Warner Brothers, so it will be on HD DVD as well, and in the past the HD DVD releases had more features than the Blu-Ray releases, Video was the same as Warner does only one encode.

    300 --> Warner, on HD DVD as well, and again with more features than the Blu-Ray version.

    The Bourne Ultimatum --> Universal Studios, definitely not going to be on Blu-Ray anytime soon.

    Knocked Up --> Universal Studios again, so no Blu-Ray for you!

    Oceans 13 --> Warner Brothers, so it will be dual format again.

    Hire a fact checker next time.
    [ Parent ]
  • 11 replies beneath your current threshold.