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Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready!

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Sat Aug 18, 2007 06:37 PM
from the certainly-not-of-or-for-the-people dept.
rev_media writes to tell us that CNN has a few updates to the Real ID act currently facing legislators. The Real ID acts mandates all states to begin issuing federal IDs to all citizens by 2008. Costs could be as much at $14 billion, but only 40 million are currently allocated. Several states have passed legislation expressly forbidding participation in the program, while others seem to be all for it. The IDs will be required for access to all federal areas including flights, state parks and federal buildings. People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights.
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[+] Politics: More States Rebel Against Real ID Act 295 comments
Spamicles writes with a link to a Lawbean post about more rebellion against the Real ID act. New Hampshire and Oklahoma have joined Montana and Washington state in passing statutes refuting the ID act's guidelines. "However, these actions could eventually lead to drivers licenses issued in these states to not be accepted as official identification when boarding airplanes or accessing federal buildings. In addition to these four states, members of the Idaho legislature intentionally left out money in the budget to comply with the Act."
[+] NH Signs Bill That Rejects Federal Real ID 231 comments
jcatcw writes "New Hampshire is part of a trend to oppose the federal Real ID act. The governor this week signed a bill that forbids state agencies from complying with the controversial federal regulation. The Real ID law, first passed by Congress in 2005, currently requires that all state driver's licenses and other identification cards include a digital photograph and a bar code that can be scanned by electronic readers. Such a federally approved ID card or document would be required for people entering a federal building, nuclear power plant and commercial airplane. The New Hampshire bill, which labeled the Real ID Act as "contrary and repugnant" to the New Hampshire and U.S. Constitutions, was passed in the state Senate by a 24-0 vote in late May."
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  • Wow (Score:5, Funny)

    by UncleWilly (1128141) * <UncleWilly07 AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:38PM (#20280361)
    $14 billion seems a little expensive, I'm glad I already have a passport.
        • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Brian Gordon (987471) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:49PM (#20280957)
          That's approx $46.26 per person (according to census.gov numbers). That's more than 6 hours of work (at my minimum wage).. nice to know that the next time I go to work I'll earn nothing that day so that people can be forced to register their movements within their own country.
  • Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:38PM (#20280367)
    Did America lose a war I didnt hear about?
    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nurb432 (527695) on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:41PM (#20280405) Homepage Journal
      Yes, actually it did. Just no one noticed.

      It was the war to retain our prior way of life, which we obviously lost.
      • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:07PM (#20280621)
        At least you were free-range sheep before... soon you'll be factory farmed.
      • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lawpoop (604919) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:40PM (#20280879) Homepage Journal
        Otherwise known as the War on Terror. The terrorists won; we have lost our freedoms. They have changed our way of life.
      • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ElectricRook (264648) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:59PM (#20281041)

        I think you and I are the only persons to realize this.

        Al Queda struck a magor blow to the American way of life. While not an instant knock down, it may in fact be a mortal blow. More like a bee sting to a person allergic to bee venom.

        We Americans have enjoyed almost total security, in that our three neighbors consist of two good friends (Mexico and Canada), and a weak pseudo enemy (Cuba). This being our only injury since the Spanish American war (concluded 1846). December 7 1941 was actually smaller than September 11 2001. The response to the attack is the only thing we Americans could not withstand, a damage to our freedom.

        Like a bee sting, the root cause, is an over-active immune response to a relatively minor injury. This is driving a catastrophic systemic failure. The political body is consuming the peoples liberty due to an over reaction by the infotainment industry. Which in-fact creates a dangerous situation for the leadership.

        The infotainment industry (facing a loss in power to alternative internet new sources) over-reacted to terrorist acts, causing the politicians to make drastic reductions in freedom in order to appear effective. This in turn provided a positive feedback to the infotainment industry. The infotainment industry in a downward spiral has lost it's past power and glory. With every minor terror threat the press over-reacts again seeking another spike in power. It's a run-away system.

        All this over-reaction is causing a meltdown in the public confidence of congress (currently facing a 10% approval rating), the executive branch, and the press.

  • Papers please! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BWJones (18351) * on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:41PM (#20280391) Homepage Journal
    Papers please!

    The slow slide to fascism began some time ago, but has really accelerated over the past six years or so. We have fewer rights now than ever before in the USA and I fear for where we are going.

    For instance:

    1) We now torture as part of imprisonment along with imprison people without the protections that the Geneva Convention provides and appear to detain people without formally charging them or letting them know what they are being charged with.

    2) We have a fear mongering national obsession with security that despite all the money and bureaucracy spent and created still leaves us wide open to security threats while taxing business and limiting travel. Threat levels are increased without justification to apparently further political goals.

    3) We have politicized education and science for political gain while at the same time stifled scientists from telling the facts/truth/scientific findings.

    4) We have completely conflated religion and government funneling money into religious groups with strong ties into the government.

    5) Taxation is only low for corporate and the most wealthy, while at the same time we have suppressed labor power and limited funding for intellectual and artistic pursuits.

    6) We have rampant government corruption and funneling of government "no-bid" contracts to companies with strong ties to government.

    7...... How much more do we have to add to really start becoming scared?

    • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:47PM (#20280451)
      As an old guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's I must say this nation is beginning to sound (and act) like the nation I was taught to fear... the soviet union.
      Showing papers to travel within the country is not what a free people do.
      • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Informative)

        by BWJones (18351) * on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:51PM (#20280479) Homepage Journal
        "What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. " ~ an anonymous German Professor from 'They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945', by Milton Mayer

    • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gardyloo (512791) on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:56PM (#20280531)

      We have fewer rights now than ever before in the USA
      Careful. African Americans and women can own property, vote, and enjoy the rights that white males do. Gay marriage (and civil unions) is legal in some states now. A woman's right to choose the fate of her unborn child is protected. There are probably more rights which are guaranteed now which I can't think of off the top of my head. So although I agree that things aren't perfect in this country, most of the points raised by the parent poster are in no way new, and some things are much better than they have been at various points in the country's history.
      • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BWJones (18351) * on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:02PM (#20280583) Homepage Journal
        Careful. African Americans and women can own property, vote, and enjoy the rights....

        Indeed. I should have qualified that to say that we have fewer rights now than at any time before in the last 50 years.

      • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lawpoop (604919) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:16PM (#20280697) Homepage Journal
        You're totally correct, but I don't really want to say anything that would dampen the vigilience of the American people against tyranny. For example, In Hussein's Iraq, women were allowed to drive cars, walk around alone, go to school, become doctors, etc. He had a secular progressive state in a region full of Islamic theocracies and kingdoms. However, that doesn't mean that Hussein wasn't a brutal dictator who ruled with fear, megalomania, torture, secret police, etc. etc.
      • Re:Papers please! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BWJones (18351) * on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:59PM (#20280567) Homepage Journal
        And if you think any of that is going to change by electing Democrats, you've got another thing coming.

        Republicans....Democrats.... it does not matter. What matters is that we as a people take back those freedoms granted to us. Remember that the Constitution was not so much a document that granted individual rights, rather it was a document that described what government can and could not do. To paraphrase Jim Garrison who was speaking of Nazi Germany when he said that it was not a German phenomenon, "It is not a Republican/Democratic phenomenon, it is a human phenomenon and the slide to a proto-fascist state can happen here."

  • by arthurpaliden (939626) on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:43PM (#20280419)
    Sir, your papers are not in order, please come with us..... No, this is not happening in 'Soviet Russia' this is happening in the United States of America One of the things that the US goverment kept on about during the cold war was that in the United States you did not need 'internal travel documents and passports' because it, the United States, was a free country..
  • remember when? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lecithin (745575) on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:44PM (#20280435)
    Borodin: Do you think they will let me live in Montana?
    Capt. Ramius: I would think they'll let you live wherever you want.
    Borodin: Good. Then I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman, and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pick-up truck, or umm... possibly even...a recreational vehicle, and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
    Capt. Ramius: Oh yes.
    Borodin: No papers?
    Capt. Ramius: No papers. State-to-state.
  • by b0s0z0ku (752509) on Saturday August 18 2007, @06:55PM (#20280519)
    I don't agree with all of his politics, especially his stances on abortion and public health care, but he may be the least authoritarian out there. If you think that most Democrate will be better, they're just as bad.
    • by lawpoop (604919) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:14PM (#20280673) Homepage Journal

      I don't agree with all of his politics, especially his stances on abortion and public health care...
      I don't agree with Ron Paul about a lot of things, either.

      But the wonderful thing about him is that, as a libertarian, he believes that the federal government has no role in deciding these issues. He would leave them up to the states to decide. In favor of women's reproductive rights? Create a petition to get the matter into your state legislature or constitution. Want single payer health care? Pressure your state representatives, or, again, get enough signatures to get it on your state's ballots.

      Wow, people might actually start to feel like we have a representational democracy again, instead of a bunch of Washington insiders bought by corporate lobbyists!
  • by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:00PM (#20280569)
    From the article:

    "For terrorists, travel documents are like weapons," Chertoff said

    But, Walsh said, "any state that's refusing to implement this key recommendation by the 9/11 Commission, and whose state driver's licenses are as a result used in another terrorist attack, should be held responsible."
    What a fucking fear-mongerer!

    So, if the next terrorists have one of these internal passports, what are the consequences for the people promoting the Real-ID program? Will they be held responsible? Another 9/11 and will the people running DHS be convicted of manslaughter? Can't have it both ways Cheeseoff!
  • by soldoutactivist (1137475) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:28PM (#20280773)
    There was a time when I couldn't imagine living in another country, not even as an exchange student. I've even turned down fantastic job offers from other countries because they simply weren't in America. But almost everyday now something happens, a law is passed, or another degree shaven off of what once made this country great is added to "Why isn't this the greatest country in the world anymore?" The next time a foreign job offer comes around, I'm probably going to take it, there's just not enough reasons not to these days. And even if one doesn't, Vancouver, BC is a very beautiful city. Get out while you still can.
  • by Stanislav_J (947290) on Saturday August 18 2007, @07:35PM (#20280835)

    Y'all are missing the real Catch-22 here. How could a passport substitute for Real ID? A passport is a federal document. Once Real ID is in effect, no doubt you will need one to obtain or renew a passport, no? So if you have no Real ID, you can't use your passport instead, because you will need the ID to get or renew the passport. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    This battle isn't over yet by far, because in addition to the few states that have explicitly refused to participate, many others are discussing it in their legislatures, and some of those are leaning towards saying "drop dead" to the Feds as well. Sooner or later, we will reach a critical mass of states that represent a significant enough percentage of the U.S. population (and, hence, of voters) that would be classified as second-class citizens, and that will put the kibosh on the whole mess. I just hope those legislatures have some backbone....

    You can keep up with the current status of Real ID legislation in the various states at the Real Nightmare [realnightmare.org] website.

  • by Inoshiro (71693) on Saturday August 18 2007, @08:14PM (#20281211) Homepage
    Every single 9/11 terrorists highjacker had a valid passport.

    This is security theatre -- worse still, it removes freedoms from us non-terrorists.
              • by karmatic (776420) on Saturday August 18 2007, @08:04PM (#20281107)
                I'm sorry, but the more I hear of him, the more Thomas Jefferson sounds like a dangerous, deranged psychopath.
                Well, the founding fathers committed an armed overthrow of the legitimate government. If you were to ask England, they were murderers, terrorists, and they committed treason. Had they not succeeded, they would have been executed as traitors to the crown.

                The difference between a traitor and a patriot is often a matter of how successful one was. Fortunately for the United States, the people who started it's government did so because they wanted freedom from an oppressive government, rather than simply freedom to institute their own oppressive government. Unfortunately, there has been a sever slide towards tyranny in recent years.

                We could use a few more patriots in this nation, even if it did result in some people dying in a revolution. The safest life is a solitary one in a padded cell, but I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. Besides, if it's acceptable for a soldier to fight (and give his life) to "preserve our way of life", why is it wrong to fight to better our way of life?