China Censoring Flickr 218
An anonymous reader writes "It would appear that the Chinese government is currently censoring all photos on the site Flickr. A notice has been posted in a Flickr help forum about this, but the service currently doesn't have a fix for this. It would appear that China has turned on their Golden Shield Project to censor the site. 'Jain Hua Li, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, said he hadn't heard of Flickr until told about it in a conversation with a Chronicle reporter, and then suggested that the blocking may be because Chinese authorities are trying to protect children from racy images. Lucie Morillon, the U.S. representative for Reporters Without Borders, a French group that promotes free expression, said that the Beijing government often censors Web sites under the guise of protecting children or national security. She called the blocking of Flickr "one more blow against the free flow of information online by Chinese authorities" and added that it is particularly lamentable in light of promises by China to loosen restrictions before the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.' Thomas Hawk has a well-considered opinion to offer on this issue."
Come on China, (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Come on China, (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Come on China, (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm confused. (Score:2)
It doesn't need to be illegal. There's no reason for them to spend money to do it in the first place.
I mean, I've never had problems with pornographic ads on non-adult sites back when I was a wee teenager even during the wild-west days of the internet.
It's just puritanical bullshit, same as always.
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You:
There is a section of the American population who is not content with just living their own lives by their own morals. No, they work tirelessly to make everyone else live by their morals as well. No drinking, no drugs, no
Re:Come on China, (Score:5, Informative)
I actually thought the first post was quite funny but I suppose anyone suggesting that the US govt might like to censor anything is offensive to some people. The reality is that the US goverment and certain states in particular have a long history of censorship.
As usual, wikipedia has a pretty decent page on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Un
I am not saying that the US is as bad as China, but no government is above trying to censor things they dont aggree with for any number of reasons.
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Why doesn't anyone talk about how the CHINESE government, who is actually killing people for censorship, should be stopped ? Where is the left's support for the people of China ?
Please show me, for once, that you are capable of actually thinking about something bad without blaming it on Bush or the American government ?
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I suppose we could strike first with our nuclear weapons but it is a bit hard to justify doing this using the argument of helping the Chinese people. There are a great many injustices in the world but for the most part we can do nothing about them. I try and avoid buying Chinese produce but this is bloody difficult nowadays being that the seem
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If you mean this as a small crusade to economically punish the Chinese state into your way of thinking, I'd view it as counter-productive - the state censorship was *strongest* when China had the weakest economy, and when it had the least amount of contact with the outside world. If China's export market crumbled the economy would take a big hit, but that would not mean the censorship would
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That is one of the reasons why their was a bitter war between Iran and Iraw for years.
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Unfortunately this is exactly how bad it really was. Yes nobody dared attack anyone. But that was because Saddam had installed cannons aimed at markets, schools, etc. If a Sunni muslim from baghdad district A attacked anyone, that meant that the kindergarden would get 5 minutes of automatic fire. He "only fired" those guns on
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As usual, wikipedia has a pretty decent page on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Uni ted_States [wikipedia.org]
I am not saying that the US is as bad as China, but no government is above trying to censor things they dont aggree with for any number of reasons.
I'm currently in China and therefore I cannot view your Wikipedia link, but I'll take your word for it.
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Everyone look at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1350 794/posts ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/1_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/2_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/14_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/4_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/3_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/5_1.shtml ; http://www.boxun.com/hero/picshock/6_1.sht
Thank God that wouldn't happen in the US (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh... er...
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That's how it's done in America: they don't use guns. They use lawyers.
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My wife was wondering a week ago if it was really ok to state my opinion here on slashdot. She was worried about me getting sued.
I told her it will be a cold day in hell if I ever cave in and lose my freedom of speech or opinions.
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Sites like MySpace and LiveJournal have been pressured to take down various profiles and users because they have iffy content or they have a name SIMILAR to a person listed on the sex offender registry. The FCC regularly limits what can be said on television and radio.
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Example?
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Now, we're down to... "Well, at least we're not as bad as China".
Well, on the plus side, we don't have secret lists that prevent you from traveling on airplanes. Nor do we do secret wiretaps without judicial review.
Anyway, at least the terrorists won't have to "hate us for our freedoms" much longer.
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Not News (Score:3, Informative)
The great Firewall (Score:2)
Quick everyone make flickr clones! Oh wait...
Olympics will be exempt (Score:5, Insightful)
The rest of the country? No.
A month later? No.
BTW, don't check your business email or log in to the corporate VPN from China. You know the story: "all your trade secrets are blong to us".
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Uh, isn't this what encryption is for? (God help you if your company doesn't encrypt it's VPN)
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So let me get this straight (Score:2, Informative)
You guys want us to buy all the stuff you make, and you don't want to allow your people access to the ideas we make.
How much longer are you going to let this authoritarian bullshit go on? Do you realize how powerful China could become if it embraced concepts like "the free exchange of ideas"? You guys could be mining helium on the Moon, then building interplanetary transportation and communication networks with the Europeans and the Africans (if they can also get their act together in the next few dec
How much longer? (Score:4, Insightful)
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A fix? (Score:3, Funny)
Techincally if fickr circumvents this, they are violating China's wishes, and could be sued charged with treason and extradited.
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there is something greater in importance (Score:2, Insightful)
namely, it is the wishes of the average chinese person
your words are basically "shut up and respect the guy in charge"
no, fuck you. the guy in charge needs to respect the guy on the street. in china, he does not do this. that's wrong
that's not wrong according to western values, that's wrong period, according to all human values
it's called democracy, and it is the right and provenance of every single soul on this planet
do you understand? or are you still so
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your words are basically "shut up and respect the guy in charge"
Yes, evil China. In the west, we never let the guy in charge decide, we always look for what the average person wants. There will never be a war that isn't supported by a vast majority... Err...
that's not wrong according to western values, that's wrong period, according to all human values
According to western human values. The human rights of the UN are very strongly western values. When they were drafted, few non-western countries had a say.
it's called democracy, and it is the right and provenance of every single soul on this planet
According to which universal truth?
Hold the flamethrower for a second. I don't say tyranny is great. However, this blind love with "democracy" is not productiv
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name one. otherwise, stand up and stand behind democracy
What kind of argument is that? Oh wait, the one of the fundamentalist, of course. Just because it might be the best option now doesn't mean it will be forever. The words and works of man are not eternal truths. Thus I prefer to not stand behind any -ism or -y, because it restricts your field of vision.
if you can articulate something better than democracy, you have a valid point. but if you criticize democracy without a better option, you're some sort deluded asshole
Yes, I realize that "deluded asshole" is a synonym for "open minded person" in the fundamentalist POV.
however, i don't think you are necessarily evil, just stupid
I like this point in the discussion, you know? Aside from the fact that you know almost nothing about me
actually you probably are smart mensa wise (Score:2)
you want us to not champion democracy, because there is the possibility that SOMEDAY something better may come along
wtf!?
ok, i'll go tell my dad to stop taking lipitor, because they may cure heart disease with nanotechnology in a future centuries
SAME THING MORON
wow! i feel the bathing glow of your estreme superior genius!
(snicker)
you're fucking retarded
there are math profressors who can't balance their checkbook, i don't consider th
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but, like most asperger's syndrome morons, your social sense is utterly zero
Hihi, you really fall into every trap someone puts down for you in a flame war, right?
It just happens that my day job is ensuring proper social treatment of about 3000 people.
Really, you shouldn't try ad hominem attacks against someone you know nothing about.
leave the commentary on politics to human beings who actually know the fucking BASICS of human nature, ok einstein?
Politics and psychology are the main elements of my daily work.
Now, did we lose track of the actual argument entirely? I think it was largely whether or not human rights are a universal truth. Aside from the usual semantic problems about "universal" a
if you are responsible for 3000 people (Score:2)
here it is, the rock of gibraltar that your words cannot move, and defeats your position:
either you have a positive affirmative belief in humanity, or you don't. if you don't, then you forfeit your right to comment on the efforts on those who are working to improve humanity's lot. for if you don't believe in human potential or human progress, then why are you talkin
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i fear for those people. for if they are in YOUR care, they will suffer. because you yourself ascribe to notions that that are rather nihilistic
Hihi, baited again. This is getting boring, can't you make it a little more difficult?
I actually hold an elected office. This is my second term, and the people I'm responsible for don't agree with your sentiment, because the last election was pretty much a landslide victory for me, with almost twice as many votes going to me as to the 2nd ranked.
I prefer to think that these people know more about the results of my work than you do.
here it is, the rock of gibraltar that your words cannot move, and defeats your position:
True, the rock can not be moved by words alone. Yet your "rock" is just mor
"Rights are a fabrication" (Score:2)
by saying that, you've just declared intellectual and moral bankruptcy
congratulations, you're a moron
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so you tell me (Score:2)
is there another way to look at this issue?
please, i'm all ears, enlighten me
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all people SHOULD BE equal?
That is the current consensus in western society, yes.
is there another way to look at this issue?
Hundreds. In fact, mankind has lived 99% of it's existence subscribing to non-equality. The very same way we would call someone antisocial or insane if he claimed that group X is more or less valuable than other humans, the same way you would have been looked at as a nutcase in most of human history. People would be upset and consider you endangering their very morals if you had claimed that slaves, jews, christians, greeks, women or whatever they oppr
do you believe in progress? (Score:2)
you seem to championing stasis: no change. of course change is difficult, of course it is messy, people's feelings get hurt. therefore, no one should attempt to improve the world?
and how do i define equal? very simply: equal in rights and priveledges. equal in a
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slavery still exists. it always will, under the radar, in some form or another. does this mean you stop fighting slavery? furthermore, at some point in the past, slavery was more prevalent than it was today. so is this proof of progress in the world?
It is an excellent argument against your "universal human rights". Because for millenia slavery was perfectly acceptable in most human societies. How do you dig that? By claiming "progress"? That the "universal human rights" have only been discovered recently?
Now, there are only two ways to parse this: Either, progress is inherent and any future state is by definition advanced to any past state.
Or, you include a judgement by deciding what you consider progress and what not. Judgements are always based on v
Re:i think i'm beginning to understand your proble (Score:3, Insightful)
universal human rights always existed, exists everywhere now, and always will exist
Is that a belief or a fact? :-)
If it is a fact, please point me to the evidence of universal human rights, say, 200 million years ago, when there were no humans.
Ok, that's an invalid argument you say, so let's kill your second all-quantor. Please point me to the universal human rights in the Andromeda galaxy. Hey, you said "everywhere", not me.
No, I'm not just playing stupid here. There's a point. The point is that your definition lacks. If you agree that "universal human rights" can't have existed before
again, your essential problem: asperger's (Score:3, Insightful)
you want to reduce humanity to a math problem
"Compassion is an emotion evolved through natural selection to facilitate the survival of the species. The same goes for all of our primitive moral instincts. They are nothing more than techniques that improve our fitness for natural selection."
yes, agreed 100%. and? is it ever another way?
"You can kick and scream all you like (and that's all you have done here) but in the end your position isn't logical."
no, it's not logical. nor will it ev
2 things (Score:2)
#2: "It is their right, unfortunately, to decide that some information and expression is detrimental to society, that it is devoid of value."
you were very careful not to call me stupid. i see no need for such c
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what i am saying strictly depends upon UNIVERSAL human rights. understand?
Hihi, this is too easy.
You know, there exists no such thing as "universal human rights". Oh, you can call something that, just the way I can call a hamster the king of England. It just remains a hamster. You're confusing the map with the territory. The "universal human rights" are a collection of words describing how a certain group of people thinks a general ethics should work.
Wait 100 years and that consensus will change. Oh, not dramatically, but in the details. Just like "freedom" had a different meani
how can you be so stupid? (Score:2)
HOLY SHIT NO WAY
what, is this supposed to be amazing to me? is this supposed to change my view?
lots of MINOR issues remain different, but across ALL cultures, ALL times, past present, AND future, certain bedrock principles remain the FUCKING SAME
because you can say the japanese are not so pro-women's rights as the americans are, that means that say murder is also morally relative?
what a fucktard!
you must be some sort of racist
ALL humanity, ALL times, ALL cultures, ALL countries DESERVE basic hu
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lots of MINOR issues remain different, but across ALL cultures, ALL times, past present, AND future, certain bedrock principles remain the FUCKING SAME
Name one.
that means that say murder is also morally relative?
Totally. Even today. When 3000 americans die, it's the worst terror attack in history. When 300,000 iraqis die, it's collateral damage. What do you call that if not relative?
Back in history, there are many, many, many cases of murder that were totally acceptable. Heck, even the stupid bible contains a lot of "if X does Y, kill the fucking bastard".
you must be some sort of racist
I have a solid dislike for white anglo-saxon protestants with a subscription to righteousness, yes. :-)
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according to you, person a is worse than person b (numerical comparison alone). which is of course, nonsense
Yes, but your example is flawed. Driving a schoolbus (a device for travelling) and having an accident (killing someone, which is not what a schoolbus is designed for) is one thing. Throwing a bomb (a device for blowing things up) on a town (a place for people to live) and blowing up some people is not exactly an accident.
A better (though still not good) example would be:
Person A:
"Oh, I totally wanted to kill some people, so I took this schoolbus and drove it straight into a group of kids. I think I wacked
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fundamentalism is my enemy
That is weird, you know? Because usually the position of absolute moral values is the position of the fundamentalist. Actually, that's pretty much what the word means.
at the same time, i hew to moral equivalency: that humanity has more in common in values than differences.
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks. Yes, humanity has lots in common. If more or less depends on how you enumerate, so let's just ignore that. It seems the whole thing is that we approach from different directions. I'm trying to understand humanity by what Korzybski calls extension [wikipedia.org], while you appear to define the world according to the prin
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Who wins when there is a disagreement? Who get to make the decision of what is the 'right' way to live and the 'wrong' way? ( ill give you a hint, its not you )
Re:there is something greater in importance (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. The individual Chinese have every right to live however they want, until they try to force their preferences onto others, or make threats against them. If some (or all) of them don't want to be censored, they have every right not to be.
dear moron (Score:2, Funny)
SOME ASSHOLE IN BEIJING IS DECIDING FOR THEM
do you fucking understand the fucking obvious?
the chinese have every right to live how they want, just as you say
AND THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
(slaps forehead)
what a fucking idiot
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Do you feel the same way about the US government. They also violate peoples human rights. The two most current examples are Gauntanamo Bay and the rendition torture express flights being operated by the CIA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendit
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Sue a website? (Score:2)
Now, i agree its hard to get somone transferred out of the country to face charges, but it DOES happen on occasion, and it doesnt mean they cant at least try, even if the request is denied.
If you don't like the Chinese Government... (Score:4, Insightful)
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I believe the word you were looking for was "politics". Economic science is predicated on ethical behavior, although I will admit that it -- like all other forms of science -- is essentially amoral (though not immoral -- it simply leaves morality up to the individual participants).
Your war on economics is badly misguided.
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I can think of some paperpads sold at Staples and OfficeMax by Amco. Everything and I mean everything is made in China. Nothing is made in the us anymore.
My fiance used to live in North Carolina a decade ago which had the lowest unemployment in the nation at under %3 with many factory jobs to chose from in a tiny small town.
Now that same town has a %70 unemployment rate as they all went to china as minimal wage workers were viewed as expensiv
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Not Surprised (Score:3, Funny)
I've yet to know if they know what human rights means.
Shorter list (Score:5, Funny)
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The Reason is Obvious (Score:5, Informative)
We are the ones blame (Score:2)
I wonder what happened to Occident, great promises of freedom and equality are fading away in our old and corrupt society.
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So I see it represents our values quite well. Unless your not an American.
OK, Fess Up (Score:2)
Using Censorship against them (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously: I have a friend who just got back from a visit in China. He said the Communist Party is very scared about losing its grip on society. They've very, very worried about losing control. Something you haven't heard in the mainstream media: Chinese, particularly the poorer ones, are really sick of the rich getting richer. When the Chinese Government wants to build a road, they pick a poor area, flatten it and kick the poor locals out. Increasingly, people are getting sick of it and the government is worried: This is why they're banning things left, right and center: http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/2275.asp [indiadaily.com] http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK16528
Not sure what's worse... (Score:2)
Golden Shield not Advisable (Score:2)
A warrior venturing into battle with a golden shield would bear a heavy burden in more ways than one. Lends new meaning to the exhortation, "Come home with your shield or on it. [straightdope.com]
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China has a group of hackers that do nothing but make viruses, spyware, to try and infiltrate and sabotauge foreign computers.
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In the real world, or just in Command and Conquer Generals?
I thought that most spyware originated in the US where you could sell marketing data you gathered for the greatest returns.
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But it does only speculate as to Chinese involvement in the Code Red worm. I got the impression from hacking incidents over the spyplane that the people participating on both sides were just silly little script kiddies (on both sides). I would hope that any US or Chinese government hacker could find better things to do than deface some random websites.
It is also interesting that at the bottom of the article they have a note saying that the first version of
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But the real situation is much less spectacular (obviously). Bush, and the American public, actually listen to your self-important dribble, and give you a "mission". The mere fact that you accuse your government is something Hong Kong would kill, or at least imprison you.
So please, join the real world. You'll find it to be a much more logical place than that scary illogical hole you occupy right no
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Re:what chinese see googling for "Tiananmen Square (Score:2)
When you Google 'Whitehouse' you don't get pages about how the British burned it down in the War of 1812, so it must be a cover up since the British supported the war on terror.
For most Chinese internet users, the tourism aspects of the square and the nearby Forbidden City are probably more significant than a 1989 protest, which is the only reason westerners have ever heard of it.
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