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Microsoft and LG Electronics Sign Linux Covenant
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Jun 07, 2007 03:29 PM
from the another-company-of-the-willing dept.
from the another-company-of-the-willing dept.
rs232 wrote with a PC World link discussing another alliance between Microsoft and a vendor via Linux. The vendor this time around is electronics maker LG, and marks the fifth company to license unspecified patents relating to Linux or Linux devices from the OS giant. "'This agreement is focused only on exchange of patent rights,' said David Kaefer, general manager of IP licensing at Microsoft. 'The open-source elements of the deal do utilize a covenant model similar to the Xandros and Novell deals, but this deal is most similar to recent agreements with Samsung and Fuji Xerox.' Those deals were signed this year in April and March, respectively. Both covered general access to intellectual property contained in patent portfolios and included protection for customers using Linux-based software."
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Linux: Linspire Signs Patent Pact With MS 386 comments
RLiegh sends us to an AP article reporting that Linspire has signed a patent deal with Microsoft. The company, which started out life as "Lindows," joins a growing list of patent agreements reached between Microsoft and vendors. Linspire will be granted a license to use True Type Fonts and "various code" that would allow for Linspire users to use voice on Windows Live Messenger as well as the usual patent protection for Linspire's customers. In return, among other things, Linspire will make Microsoft's search engine the default search on PCs shipped with their OS. Kevin Carmony, the CEO for Linspire, approached Microsoft a year and a half ago, according to the article.
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Help! I'm confused (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Help! I'm confused (Score:5, Insightful)
Novel pays MSFT $100 odd million. MSFT pays novel $240 million.
Novell nets $140 million dollars, and MSFT literally spews FUD, when MSFT did the paying.
Xandros and LG are just cashing in on the deal. Not for Linux's sake but for free money from MSFT.
Parent
First they came... (Score:4, Insightful)
I remained silent;
I did not use OpenSUSE.
When they locked Xandros into a deal,
I remained silent;
I did not use their software either.
When they came for LG Electronics,
I did not speak out;
As I did not think it meant anything.
And finally when the suits came for Ubuntu,
there was no one left to speak out.
Embrace, Extend, Destroy.
One quick point... (Score:4, Interesting)
Before I get my qwerty in a knot over this, am I not correct in pointing out these covenants and agreements apply only to companies who deal with the U.S.A., while doing business in said state?
Last time I checked, I live elsewhere, my current distro is E.U. based, and my probable future distro is based in the Isle of Man, so why should I care about Americans shooting themselves in the foot?
The OS Wars (Score:5, Funny)
Debian: We've got to wait it out for reinforments.
Linspire: They killed Private Xandros and Assimilated General SUSE! We've next!
BOOOOOOOOM!
Debian: LG Electronics!
Linspire: They're gone...
Red Hat: (removes his hat)
Ubuntu: (plays a funeral tune on his bugle)
OK, What's going on here? (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps all these deals are to give an aura of legitimacy to their patent claims, enabling them to spread FUD more effectively.
Perhaps they want to get enough people to continue Linux support under GPLv2.
Perhaps it's an attempt to tie Linux to some actual companies, which they can later undercut and drive out of business (which is how they've dealt with their traditional competitors until now, but which hasn't worked against open source.)
Honestly, I haven't been able to figure out what this is about.
Re:The cascade effect has started. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:The cascade effect has started. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:The cascade effect has started. (Score:5, Informative)
Anti-trust.
MS is pressuring people to sign these agreements under the veil that they could get sued by Microsoft -- even though none of their claims have been released or validated.
Snidely imply that Linux violates your patents, get people to sign up and cross license their patents with you, then use that as further pressure to get other people to sign up for licensing agreements. These companies didn't go to MS and say "hey, we'd like to do that" -- I bet thy got told that if they *didn't*, then they could be subject to legal action.
Illegally using your market dominance to unfairly compete -- too bad the USDOJ lost their balls to actually do anything. Notice, they still haven't complied with the EUs requirements.
Basically, they're just thumbing their nose at people who are pointing out what they are doing is supposed to be illegal.
Cheers
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:4, Interesting)
When all is said and done MSFT is PAYING Novell 140 million dollars.
That's right people MSFT is paying protection money to Linux vendors, while telling the press the exact opposite.
read the facts for yourself. not MSFT PR spin only.
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is basically buying rights to all of the patents owned by the companies they sign these deals with, so MS can go ahead and infringe on them at will. Pretty sweet deal when you're Microsoft. If anyone else violates the patent, those groups will have to fight against Microsoft's competition.
They also create the perception that anyone who hasn't signed such an agreement is likely to be in violation and therefore in a sketchy legal position. They haven't proven it or anything, merely asserted it and gotten some credibility by having people sign up and appear to agree.
Microsoft is NOT paying protection money to Linux vendors. They're making it look like those companies got something in return for giving up a whole lot more in the end. They're buying the perception that it's in the interest of everyone else to do the same, as well as access to a load of patents in others portfolios. If Microsoft is offering you cash, they're not doing it for altruistic reasons.
Sure, the vendor got the candy bar
Cheers
Parent
Being pedantic... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have paid for the right to use a patent then you cannot possibly infringe by definition.
Microsoft is buying rights to other people's patents because it makes a huge amount of stuff and there is a significant probability that they would otherwise infringe.
Other people want access to Microsoft because there is a significant chance that the stuff they build on top of Linux might infringe even if Linux does not.
Microsoft has a metric crapload of patents. The chance that Linux does not infringe at all is rather small. The real issue there is not infringement but what attempts they will or can make to enforce.
I don't think that the regulatory regime is going to be such that Microsoft can safely engage in SCO style tactics even if they wanted to.
Parent
Re:Being pedantic... (Score:4, Interesting)
BTW, how much does it cost to fight a patent invalidation suit when you have some clear prior art? Is it possible to ask the USPTO (we are almost always talking US software-related patents) to re-examine a patent in light of some newly found prior art?
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:5, Insightful)
They are essentially extorting the IP from these guys while making Linux the bad guys. This is wrong and people should be pushing back at these companies for entering into such baseless agreements. They are going after some of the little guys (Xandros) in order to try to put more weight behind their current situation.
If anyone knows much about Xandros they know these guys are nothing in the Linux industry yet it made headlines. It is simply due to the Linux vs Microsoft names.
We need to know those IPs so we can push back. People should be putting a concerted effort into suing Microsoft for abandonment of the IP since they won't bring forward any evidence. They should be sued for slander (making false accusations that they know to be false in an attempt to have others believe those accusations to be true and to intentionally do harm.) They then need to be sued for libel for getting that material printed and not making an effort to correct it.
I don't think there should be no closed proprietary software. I just think that Microsoft is just wrong in pushing the industry by misleading vendors and others.
Parent
False Statement (Score:5, Insightful)
Your statement is very clever, but untrue.
Yes, microsoft is paying linux vendors. But history has shown that Microsoft has an end-game in mind that will harm everyone.
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is because Microsoft knows that they have peaked in the software industry, and they are desperately seeking a way to continue their unprecedented growth. We all know it's not going to happen; most of Microsoft's hardware products (aside from keyboards, joysticks, and mice) have been duds in the marketplace. They are looking for other proven markets where they might be able to get a running start. They tried WebTV - it was a good idea, but a poor implementation (okay, my 94-year-old grandma uses webtv, but it's amazing she even knows what the Internet is, let alone uses it). They tried search engines and failed miserably, even though the MSIE default page was MSN. They tried to get into media, but between the MSNBC channel never gaining on CNN and Fox, their DRM schemes breaking compatibility steering people even MORE to iTunes (Plays for Sure, a semi-established standard not working with their own Zune media player), and the Xbox floundering in the marketplace, they don't know what to go to next for growth.
What's next? Cellphones? Televisions? Razor-thin margins are not Microsoft's style, and certainly are not going to maintain the long-term growth they are looking for. Automobiles? Aside from GPS devices on WinCE, there isn't much opportunity there. Oh sure, you could have a WinCE-based ECM managing your engine and accessories, but does anyone really want to drive an automobile so dependent upon Windows with its history of defects? I'd rather have the ECM be very, very good at running the engine, where it focuses on nothing but keeping the engine running. What else is there? PVRs? Tivo and the dish and cable companies have that maarket locked up. Medical devices? Not on your life; Windows is not known for security and stability, do you really want a neurosurgeon using robotics based on WinCE operating on your brain if you get into an accident? I didn't think so.
I think the Novell deal is something different though. I think that they want to focus more on services and become a solutions provider like IBM did, so that way no matter WHAT the techology choice is, Microsoft still get at least a slice of the pie, and then other forces at Microsoft who are desperate to maintain their positions and power at Microsoft are using this development to spread anti-Linux FUD.
In any event, the future will reveal what is going on. Everything above may be totally off base, but really, I do think that these moves are out of desperation because they see the strength of their stock eroding very quickly. The smart money for long-term growth would be to invest in open source solution providers, sponsors of Linux distributions, and alternative choices such as Apple Computer, where they don't try to dominate the market, but to maintain gradual long term growth and foster customer retention by delivering a quality product that just works.
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite; the scales are still tipped in the developer's favor.
Here's why: the resolution for the patent infringement is to cease distribution of the infringing patent, to license the patent, or to reimplement in a non-infringing way.
The resolution for copyright infringement is to pay damages for _each_ instance of infringement (every unit shipped/distributed/downloaded) AND cease distribution of the infringing product until it is reimplemented in a non-infringing way.
Parent
So there's still some justice in the world (Score:5, Funny)
235 patents.
I say again: 235 patents.
Considering how rock solid Windows has been since Windows 2000, and that Linux is still a little flaky, I'm guessing the kernel developers didn't have access to the stability patents by Microsoft.
Well, I'm really only surprised that LG didnt just license Windows instead and be rid of all the issues at once.
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:5, Insightful)
once GPL3 is out?
Question: Can Samsung/LG/etc legally use Linux in their product once
1) They have signed one of these satanic "patent deals"
2) GPL3 is out
If not, have Microsoft have effectively cornered the entire embedded systems
market? Maybe they finally figured out that the future of computing is not
necessarily on the desktop...
I stall can't figure out what's in it for LG.
Parent
Re:Just wasting their money... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they're not trying to crush Linux.
What they're trying to do is pry the whole of FOSS development out of the community and into the commercial arena by creating a mesh of patent agreements with other commercial organisations.
They've used the SCO lawsuits to move the focus of software IP from copyright to patents, and now they're establishing a financial base to a massive collection of patents as transactions between them and their partners. What that does is create a value for the lost revenue which they can claim as a result of any infringement. Once this is in place, Microsoft themselves don't need to sue anyone directly. They can use a sock-puppet partner, or just wait for the inevitable, given the US's litigious patent history. In either case, it will provide a massive chilling effect to independent and FOSS software.
By indemnifying those who've established those transactions, they can do this in a way which won't invite reprisals from their existing competitors. However, any developer not affiliated with one of MS's patent partners will be treading a minefield, and a minefield in which the cost of a false step is clearly established and very large.It's a very clever move, and I think it will succeed in marginalising FOSS developers who aren't protected by large organisations.
Microsoft know it can deal with businesses, they're terrified by the amorphous mass of developers fostered by licenses like the GPL. By isolating small developers and hobbyists, they can make community software development irrelevant. This also explains why there's been so much astroturf trying to demonize GPL3 lately, both here and in the wider computer community. I suspect however, that GPL3 will be too little, too late, given the scope of Microsoft's patent strategy.
It will be interesting times ahead, but I think Microsoft's picked a winner here.
Parent
Re:I may be the only one but (Score:5, Funny)
What on Earth are you doing on Slashdot?
Parent
Re:What a deal (Score:4, Interesting)
Both companies are simply saying we could sue each other but we won't.
Parent
Re:Isn't extortion illigal? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oops. Here, let me fix that for you:
There. That's better.
Parent