Vonage May Have Way Around Patent Disputes

nevillethedevil writes "Bloomberg is reporting that Vonage may have found a way around the current patent issues they have been facing with Verizon and others. They are applying technological solutions to a legal problem, changing the way that Vonage's communications software operates at a basic level to ensure that they no longer infringe on patent claims. 'Vonage's new technology can be installed through software downloads and shouldn't be costly to deploy, Citron said. The company will continue to appeal the court decision that requires it to pay Verizon damages for infringing patents on technology that translates Internet-based calls to standard lines.'"

Way around...

The could just tape a speaker to a phone, unless at&t has a patent on that too.

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The could just tape a speaker to a phone, unless at&t has a patent on that too.

Well there's always two cans and a string. Unless some kid has a patent on that too.

They could sell pet food online!

That's a Sure Thing! Y'know, with Web 2.0 and all that . . .

Hired SCO Developers

With their vast experience of finding copywrite-infringing code - they found the offending 3 lines of codes in a few hours. // Copywrite 1997 Bell Atlantic
if (switch = "5eSS") {
phone_home("Bell Atlantic Law Dept", hostname);
} //

Two Useful Links

Of course there's a way around it! It's software after all.

I worked in a company that did software in the banking/finance world and the lawyer literally spent all her time working with engineering to figure ways around patents or otherwise write code that stuck to as many standards as legally possible.

Apparently this presented great complexity from a coding perspective.

Two informative links for those that want a bit of substantive background on the topic.
http://ipurbia.com/2007/03/verizon-patent-analysis .html [ipurbia.com]

http://herot.typepad.com/cherot/2007/04/verizon_se rvice.html [typepad.com]

That this kind of litigation has to happen at all is another indicator of how bad the business climate is in the U.S.

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I would read the background in the links with a grain of salt. The author of the top one missed the well known industry fact of "Noone in his sane mind sues Level3 on VOIP IP". I bet a lot of people had the itch, but AFAIK noone ever did.

The reason is that

Missing The Point

If Verizon tries to sue Level3 it will be presented with code which does what is described in some of their patents and is dated at least several years prior to that.

I wish Verizon would sue Level3, but they won't. They'll sue every ISP/VOIP provider that

bullshit

If Verizon tries to sue Level3 it will be presented with code which does what is described in some of their patents and is dated at least several years prior to that.

So what? If it's not been disclosed, it doesn't matter.

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Not quite so. There was a commercial product implementing the function. So as a matter of fact the disclosure has occurred.

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Not quite. Making a commercial product does put you at risk of losing patentability, but it may not be sufficient to establish prior art. It's kind of a worst-of-both-worlds situation. So, either publish or patent.

What other patents are they violating?

It's too bad the new approach violates patents from Nokia, Microsoft, and Apple...

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I have to agree with this one, it's likely that whatever they're doing may infringe someone else's patent. Then again, perhaps Vonage has learned its lesson and have properly licensed the new technology that is being implemented.

A final point, Vonage be

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You are a Patent Lawyer, yes?

I thought so...

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Is that doctrine actually good for anything besides stifling innovation? I mean, shouldn't we be encouraging people to come up with new methods that produce the same result in a way that isn't already patented?

Short-term solution

This just means that 1) Vonage's new implementation could unknowingly fall under somebody else's patent, and they'd have to play the whole game over again, and 2) Vonage will patent their new implementation (to try to avoid this mess again, since that will at least make it so that only pre-May-2007 patents can sink Vonage), but that will just cause more headaches for the next organization who thinks that implementing VoIP/POTS integration can be done in an obvious / non-patentable way.

patent workarounds...

How come you read about companies violating patents one day and then finding "work arounds" the next? Seriously, if a patented technology is a crucial component in an application, how is it that the expected reaction is to bypasses it and yet keep the application functioning *exactly* like it was before.

If that doesn't show that software patents are bogus, I don't know what will.

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The patent system incentivizes would-be infringers to "invent around." Indeed, it's arguably one of the goals of the patent system. That is, one of the benefits of having patents is that it forces inventors to invent some more. This has lots of benefits:

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Where is your proof for your second claim? It MAY produce a better, more efficient solution, but a "work around" is just that, working around a roadblock. I would really doubt that it often creates better solutions. And your third claim is just bullshit

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The patent system incentivizes would-be infringers to "invent around." Indeed, it's arguably one of the goals of the patent system. That is, one of the benefits of having patents is that it forces inventors to invent some more.

Sadly in the software world

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it incentivizes "inventing around" existing patents because if your idea is new YOU can patent it! Often the ideas "invented around" are good for the company and take it in new directions, with new experience. In the business environement the goal is to

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OR if you need to work harder(devise ridiculous scheme) to not use the OBVIOUS solution, the patent is heading on a path of self-invalidation, isn't it?

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hmmm you have hit upon a fascinating loophole. I wonder if this would apply to more traditional patents as well? Could I get your expert opinion on possibly reinventing an apparatus like a wheel and yet it would be in an octagonal formulation rather than a

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The work around to the wheel is simple. You just need a shape that has ~100k flat sides. No round services at all, yet it work just as well provided the size isn't too big. If it is, you must implement the technology of using more than 100k sides.

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If somebody were to patent a process that involves converting thing A into thing J, that patent could be circumvented by a process that converts thing A into thing B, which then converts it into thing C, and so on into J. Each step would have to be distinc

Go Vonage!

Go Vonage. I doubt anyone believes for a moment that Verizon is doing anything with these patents to make VoIP calls, cheaper, better, or easier to use. Most likely just the opposite -- which is completely anti-consumer!

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Not exactly. Actually, in the USA it is for neither of those reasons.

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

The key portio

Re:Totally Off-topic

What ad [adblockplus.org]?

Blame Flash on Linux.

My guess is you're running Flash9 on Linux like me. The implementation is more than a little buggy.

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I'm viewing this on a machine running XP and the same damned thing happens.

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Nah I'm using XP and whatever most recent version of flash is. I hate it when ads interfere with websites. If this wasn't /., I wouldn't be coming back.

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What's special about this site? Not tired of Russia verbing you?

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Happening on Win2k as well.

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it's happening in lynx too.

wait that's a smudge on the screen.

Re:Totally Off-topic

Because slashdot has sold out!!

Actually slashdot uses some dynamic ads that simply trust the ad provider won't do shit like that. The admins here will fix it soon I bet.

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I've had it happen at odd occasions over the last year. I don't think they're fixing it, unless you've redefined fixing to mean "counting their stacks of ad cash."

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Click on the title and bring it up in a new window. It's pretty lame.

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I don't see that ad. However, awhile back I saw some sort of moving ad zipping across the screen. Reminded me of those "punch the monkey" ads. I closed the browser and went off to another site. I suppose I should have noticed WTF the ad was, so I know

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Adblock and Noscript are your Firefox friends!

Thanks to them, I barely remember what you are complaining about....give them a try!

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Vonage has at least two problems.
1. They operate like Big-Business (2.5 million customers, and losing money like a drunken sailor)
2. Vonage is destoying Big-Telco's cash cow.

I think the technology is great, but Vonage will be taken down by people who have

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Full of penis enlargement advertisements?

I sure hope not.

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A quick check on the stock history shows that it started falling within a few days of the IPO due to investors selling short. It had already fallen 50% by the time of the first lawsuit and then another 50% from that point before the Verizon suit.

http://fin [google.com]

Offtopic Trivial Info Message:

"....bathe a stray tom cat."

Try a window screen. As long as the screen itself is not resting on a solid surface (ie: up on small blocks) this works most of the time. The theory is that the cat will cling to the screen and allow you to bathe, examine, draw blood, admin meds, etc. Works amazingly well!

why yes IAAVT (I Am A Veterinary Technician)!

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Glad I could make your day!

BTW, it's true, though I wasn't trying for funny. Even funnier is actually seeing it in action!

Two minor things I forgot: 1. don't work well with declawed cats, 2. have to set the screen on solid surface before they will let go.

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How do people read this in a manner that would be critical of the patent system?

It was working just fine before, and there was no good reason to put all those customers in jeopardy of losing their phone service (or having to pay more to license something as obvious as sending audio over a network). And it's just as likely that the wo

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I figured if the patent is on translating IP address to telephone numbers, Vonage just needs to translate IP addresses to account numbers and then translate the account numbers to telephone numbers. Easy!

Re:Heads up, Vonage is a scam

I'm sure the cancellation mess was frustrating, but I take exception to your assessment of the quality of Vonage's phone service. I have no idea why you had so many problems with yours, but I have been using Vonage for nearly two years now, and it is by far the best phone service I have ever used. The calls are nearly always crystal clear, except when I have a bittorrent session running, thus sucking up all my bandwidth. It never loses its connectivity, unless I lose power. The call-forwarding and simul-ring features have made managing my phone numbers incredibly easier, and the convenience of receiving my voicemail through e-mail is wonderful. Free overseas calls (at least to some countries), and you can take your home phone with you wherever you go, given the right VOIP adapter. Adding a second phone number is a piece of cake (although admittedly having a secondary number converted to a primary number is quite cumbersome, and requires a good amount of arguing with some blokes ostensibly in India). I have even been able to use a modem through it with no trouble (after dialing *99). I've gotten several months of free service by referring other folks to Vonage, who have also been very happy with the service. There may certainly be better VOIP providers than Vonage (I really don't know), but I would highly encourage anyone here to ignore this comment, as I am quite sure there are many other customers who have had a great experience with them.

Re:Vonage is a leech - NOT!

Then maybe Verizon should not subsidize their DSL service? Verizon DSL should provide access to the Internet. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

If Verizon DSL is a money loser, WTF are they doing supplying it?? It doesn't make sense. Companies are there t

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Agreed. If the DSL service doesn't make money without the Phone service, then business model that is messed up is with the carrier.

If a DSL, Cable Modem, or FIOS service does not pay for itself purely based on the data service, then the provider is not ch

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What a load of twaddle. If you want to be a sucker paying the telco's rates, go ahead.

Anyway, your premise about the maintenance of the copper is utter BS. Vonage requires that one has an internet connection. That is where the telco or cable company or

Re: I have both

I am both a Vonage and Verizon customer, and there is no traditional concept of copper at all involved that needs to be maintained. I have business class internet over fiber optic cable to the house. Verizon is the data provider and Vongage is the phone