Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Australian Teachers Try To Shut Down Website

Posted by samzenpus on Wed May 02, 2007 11:51 PM
from the teachers-leave-them-kids-alone dept.
DeathElk writes "New South Wales teachers are attempting to have a website based in the United States closed down due to "defamatory" content. The site in question encourages students to rate teachers at their school, which obviously results in some colorful content. Now the story has hit the media, with some insightful quotes such as "The president of the NSW Secondary Principals Council, Jim McAlpine, said the Federal Government should block access to 'scurrilous American websites'."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Great Firewall of Oz (Score:5, Interesting)

    by m0rm3gil (567905) on Wednesday May 02 2007, @11:55PM (#18967671)
    I was just listening to Radio National (oz public radio station) do a story on this. One of the people interviewed said that China is capable of blocking websites from overseas so maybe something similar should start up in Australia. I find it kind of disturbing that people believe that the great firewall is a rational response to the potential slander of some teachers.
    • by mjwx (966435) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:48AM (#18968101)
      Wont happen,

      Those kind of nut cases are the vocal minority of Australians. Family and/or religious groups like the American Family Association but with a much smaller member base per capita (but just as loud and annoying). Most Australians don't care, in fact not giving a crap is our national past time.

      The whiners will continue to whine and the govt will pretend to do something but when push comes to shove, the businesses of australia (which have a vested interest in unfiltered traffic) will push little Johnnie or heavy Kevvy (doesn't really matter who wins the elections) that much more harder than the whiners.

      All that could possibly come out of this is a taxpayer funded opt in service which given our governments inability to do anything technical, would be completely useless.

      I'd just like to say to the govt that if you're going to spend money stupidly, spend it on FTTN ((optic) Fibre To The Node, FIOS I believe is the Yank equivalent) and cut telstra (AU's largest phone Co.) out of it But like the firewall, that will never happen.
  • oops (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wizardforce (1005805) on Wednesday May 02 2007, @11:57PM (#18967683) Journal
    every time you try to censor something in today's tech world you end up attracting more attention than if you had left it alone. besides, how can they possibly enforce this? they cant block the site at home or any cyber cafe or anywhere but the school's computers.
    • Re:oops (Score:5, Insightful)

      by catwh0re (540371) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:38AM (#18968013)
      I didn't know this website existed, that is until I read the article on SMH.com.au. While they don't mention the website's url a quick google for "school teacher rating" pulled up the right page.. a few links down and I was writing reviews for some of the poorest teachers I had ever experienced.

      Just like the HD-DVD hex code, once you start giving these things publicity (no matter how you direct it) you'll always get people doing whatever they want with the newly found information.

      If they wanted this problem to go away they should have ignored it, not plea with the government to have the website banned.

  • Support? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ktappe (747125) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:11AM (#18967799)
    It's interesting that their primary response is to shoot the messenger instead of listening to the message. We're not hearing from the teachers and administrators who get the highest marks on the website, are we? Just the bad ones who are trying to save their jobs not by improving but through censorship.

    As a side note, it's also interesting that the first two posts in response to this story seemed to advocate the censorship instead of considering whether the "defamed" teachers might in fact be unfit. Are Aussies really that OK with censorship?

      • Re:Support? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by femto (459605) on Thursday May 03 2007, @01:36AM (#18968411) Homepage
        That's overstating the facts. Each week there are a couple of slots set aside for religious education in public schools. Each religion is responsible for providing its own teachers for that time. Children attend the class of choice, and have the freedom to do a non-religious activity during that time. It's a good system. Freedom of religion includes the freedom to be religious as well as the freedom not to participate in religion.
  • by jddj (1085169) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:13AM (#18967817)
    We'll just post the defamatory content in hexadecimal poems and songs on You Tube!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:22AM (#18967881)
    I'm an Aussie myself and I'm entirely not surprised. A lot of Australians are well-meaning but conservative, especially the older ones in office - their kneejerk reaction to a situation is to try to make it go away, rather than address the underlying issues.

    It is my hope that websites like this will encourage quality teaching and improvement in teacher training/practice, but a lot of people think it's better to brush it under the carpet rather than do the hard yards to satisfy the students.

    That said, there's no excuse for spreading falsehoods about teachers who don't deserve it. I really don't rate students to give fairly assess the short-comings of someone who just assigned them homework.
  • by Greego (698947) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:26AM (#18967927)
    ... what a fucking joke. Look, I can understand that the teachers feel they are being defamed - they certainly are - but some of the quotes illustrate why this is just an emotional reaction:

    (From TFA) "It is clearly an absolute disgrace that people are anonymously able to make comments about teachers that are quite atrocious," she said.

    So what? Why should someone's anonymous statement on some website mean anything to these teachers? Can't they just ignore it?

    The quote from Jim McAlpine at the end of the article is an absolute disgrace and shows that he is completely out of touch with internet governance, or lack-thereof.

    I'm sure Slashdotters will make plenty of disparaging comments towards Australians but this comes down to an irrational, emotional reaction by a small bunch of luddite fuckwits who should know better.
  • Sounds about right. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CaptainDefragged (939505) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:32AM (#18967971)
    As with many stories, there is more to this than meets the eye.
    The NSW Teachers Federation, which is a fairly powerful union here, has been vigorously fighting any attempts to rate the teachers performance and that of their students. Report cards for students are virtually meaningless nowdays and they have fought tooth and nail to prevent the return of the old system. I can't see what justification the Dept of Education has for blocking access to these sites, but as someone who went through the NSW system, I think having a rating site is a great idea. Many of the teachers are less than competent to be teaching our children.
  • Free speech (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wall0159 (881759) on Thursday May 03 2007, @01:00AM (#18968177)
    Many people favour free speech. Fewer support it when people say things they don't like.

    It happens on slashdot too - look how people abuse the moderation system to supress opinions with which they disagree..
    • by OldManAndTheC++ (723450) on Thursday May 03 2007, @02:01AM (#18968577)
      The Muse of Irony demands it!
      • Re:Free speech (Score:5, Insightful)

        by wall0159 (881759) on Thursday May 03 2007, @01:30AM (#18968383)
        "You're confusing your ability to write what you want with my ability to call you an idiot when I read your opinion."

        No I'm not. As I said, people use "offtopic" and "troll" moderators to (effectively) remove posts with which they disagree. This is not what the moderation scheme is for - it's intended to reduce the incidence of trolling, abusive posts, etc. Modding down a legitamate post just because you disagree with it is really a form of censorship.

        You're an idiot. ;-)
  • Critical thinking (Score:5, Interesting)

    by paylett (553168) on Thursday May 03 2007, @04:57AM (#18969557)
    (If it were technically possible,) how would you react to a website where anyone (including potential employers) could search for you and see what your average bug count per 100 lines of code was?
    • Guessing you've never actually lived here...
      Australia has thousands of stupid laws that the majority don't agree with, we have an effective way of dealing with these, ignore them.
    • Constitution-itis (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Goonie (8651) * <robert.merkelNO@SPAMbenambra.org> on Thursday May 03 2007, @01:00AM (#18968179) Homepage
      Citizens of the United States, even otherwise sensible ones, have this obsession with "but we have a Constitution that protects blah blah blah..."

      Your constitution was a remarkable document, granted, but its role as the absolute guarantor of everything under the sun is exaggerated. It didn't protect you from McCarthyism, it didn't protect you (and the rest of the world) from Gitmo, it didn't stop Lenny Bruce from being arrested repeatedly, it didn't stop Lady Chatterley's Lover from remaining unpublished in the United States for decades, and so on. In practice, all it means much of the time is that when community attitudes finally change, it's more often judges rather than politicians who give effect to the change.

      • Re:Constitution-itis (Score:5, Informative)

        by btempleton (149110) on Thursday May 03 2007, @01:45AM (#18968483) Homepage
        Well, actually it _did_ protect the Americans from McCarthy, it just took its time in doing so. Likewise over time the likes of Lenny Bruce and Lady Chatterley's lover were vindicated.

        And I fervently hope (with some merit) that thanks to a free press, Gitmo will become the Manzanar of this era, reviled and used for a century as an example of what not to do. I wish the constitution could stop Gitmo in advance, but it has powerful enemies, and it is not strong enough to stop them immediately, but if things go OK, it will stop them in time, and leave them in the history books as a story of evil.

        Of course, those who remember history are sometimes condemned to be the only ones in horror as they watch it repeat.
    • Re:Sad State, (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ashridah (72567) on Thursday May 03 2007, @12:57AM (#18968161)
      Having worked (briefly) in the Victorian education system as an IT support lackey, I can definitely say that teachers here have security issues and closet inferiority complexes.

      Some of the general reasons that lead to this include, but are not limited to:
      * The advancing average age of secondary teachers
      * The general lack of tech savvy amoungst teachers and supporting staff
      * The ultra-low wages, high-volume classrooms.
      * The mentality from the general public that the teachers are given an 'easy go' and should be teaching their kids how to read/write (nevermind that this should have been done BEFORE the student reaches primary school, let alone secondary school, IMHO)

      Case in point. One time, I was in a secondary college, and a group of teachers were discussing general causes of problem students. I casually remarked "You have to admit, sometimes it's not the student that is the direct cause". I didn't get a chance to elaborate, all three teachers immediately assumed I'd accused THEM of being incompetent (when i was going to discuss an event from high school where a teacher had shown up drunk for work)

      Teachers tend to be very protective of their egos, so the incident in this slashdot story doesn't surprise me in the slightest (and, I'll also suggest it's being overblown here, it's no-where near what some US schools have done, such as suspending/expelling students, etc, over similar incidents)

    • Re:Poor buggers (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MLease (652529) on Thursday May 03 2007, @03:20AM (#18969075)
      A teacher who starts at 8:30am and knocks off at 3:30pm isn't doing the job. There's time spent preparing lessons, quizzes, tests, etc.; then there's the time spent correcting the aforesaid. There are parent-teacher meetings that normally happen outside of school hours, continuing education requirements (many of which require using up some of that "12 weeks annual leave", or night classes or whatever), and supervising extra-curricular activities (athletic coaches usually get paid extra, but it isn't that much, and non-athletic activities usually don't entail extra pay).

      Being a teacher entails acting as a mentor, an arbitrator, a cop, a counsellor, a confidante, a social worker, and many other professions. And then they have to put up with bozos who complain that they are overpaid.

      I'm not actually a fan of the public school system; I think it's designed primarily to create sheep who will be docile and obedient workers for industry (for further discussion of that, see the works of John Taylor Gatto and John Holt). My wife and I homeschooled our own children, because we could see that public school wasn't serving their needs or helping them achieve their potential. But to assert that teachers have it easy and don't deserve what they make is utterly ridiculous. It is a demanding, high-stress, low-respect job, and anyone who does it (and doesn't just go through the motions) deserves more respect and salary than they probably get.

      As for making $10,000 more than you, without knowing what that is or what you do to earn it, that's a meaningless comparison.

      -Mike