Google's Data-Storage Fuels Privacy Fears

taoman1 writes "Facing worries about its tracking Web surfers' every move, Google Inc. is now offering a feature to track Web surfers' every move. Its free Web History service is strictly voluntary — Google users can sign up to have the Internet giant keep detailed records of every website they visit so they can easily find them again later. Web History's quiet debut this week came as privacy advocates continued to raise alarms about the prospect of Google combining its collection of information on individuals with that of DoubleClick Inc. Google has agreed to acquire the New York-based company, which distributes Web ads and tracks where the majority of people go on the Internet, for $3.1 billion."

Stricly Voluntary

It's strictly voluntary. Privacy advocates should put their tin foil hat back on and switch off their computers.

Re:Stricly Voluntary

The privacy advocates arnt worried about themselves. They're making a scene because they want to make sure people who do 'volunteer' know what they might be signing away.
Some snippets FTA: -
"most Google users don't know that their search queries can be tied to them"

"When Google users were asked whether they believed that the company captured data that could be used to identify them, 77% said no."

Because as we all know...

Every sensible human being wants every chance to get context-free, "damning evidence" stored in perpetuity. How the hell can you even call this a "feature" for 99.99% of the people out there since it's more likely to result in them getting in trouble for something, than being able to say "oh, that's the search I made a year ago that was really good at getting what I wanted!"

Re:Because as we all know...

Its an awesome feature, by looking at the history its obvious what content I researching and what content I am interested in on a daily basis for work and play. I cannot wait until the next step where it can use this data to refine my actual searching using this, my gmail, and bookmarks ... or maybe a personalized 'news' portal, effectively like a digg.

I am glad Google has the balls to be the one who is honest about having it and bold enough to display a tool for it.

Others Features We All Want to Volunteer For

Google says you can opt in for this. They suggest other great ideas to opt in for:

• Extra Fuel Burner - Your car uses twice as much fuel as the stated MPG
• Credit Broadcaster - A great tool to notify internet users about your credit rating, account balances, and account numbers
• Wife Notifier - lets your spouse know every chat room you go to

Why does this surprise anybody?

I've been suspicious of Google's "do no evil" motto from day one, but my suspicions were confirmed when it was announced that Google Mail would be storing your emails ad-infinitum even if you deleted them. It is quite clear and obvious (and it has been for a long time) that Google is in the datamining business, the targeted advertisement part of which is only the tip of the iceberg. Anybody who's surprised by this announcement has been living in a cave...

Re:Why does this surprise anybody?

but my suspicions were confirmed when it was announced that Google Mail would be storing your emails ad-infinitum even if you deleted them.

And this announced policy outrages you more than the fact governments want the same exact thing forced upon all ISPs?

Re:Why does this surprise anybody?

I've been suspicious of Google's "do no evil" motto from day one, but my suspicions were confirmed when it was announced that Google Mail would be storing your emails ad-infinitum even if you deleted them. It is quite clear and obvious (and it has been for a long time) that Google is in the datamining business, the targeted advertisement part of which is only the tip of the iceberg. Anybody who's surprised by this announcement has been living in a cave...

So, I've seen the thing work...in quite a spooky way...first hand...several times...

The search? Various hot women by their name. I did a search once for pics of and it came up with 3-4 pages of results, and only one or two pictures of interest.

Skip forward several months (I haven't deleted the searching history) and I do another search for Eva Longoria I think it was, and on the first page was the --entirely unrelated-- picture of that other woman I had searched for earlier. I've seen this happen on two different occassions before when searching under the same category. Very interesting, it's like they programmed it to know when you were searching for a hot celebrity and to insert previous pages you had visited under the same category in that search. Depending on how you look at it, kinda useful, but nonetheless creepy.

Creepy is as creepy does.

Depending on how you look at it, kinda useful, but nonetheless creepy.

Almost thirty years, back in the Apple ][ days, ago a friend of mine was playing a text adventure game (I forget which one). So, after he played the thing for a while, it asked him a question using his first name. He got all freaked out, "How did it know my name?!!"

I told him "Because when you started the game it asked you for it."

"Oh."

Re:Why does this surprise anybody?

Wait, I'm missing why keeping your data for services you choose to use while knowing the terms you're using them under is considered "evil".

Perhaps if they showed themselves to be doing something evil with that data... but they haven't. Just having the data is not evil in itself.

Re:Why does this surprise anybody?

I've been suspicious of Google's "do no evil" motto from day one,

Indeed. Every time I hear something like this about Google, I have a vision of an old decrepit geek sitting inside a tin shack fifty years from now. In the light of flickering screens that cut in and out as the pirate net connection goes in and out, he regards the semi-circle of small children who have come to hear him regale them with tales of how it used to be. "Tell us again, Grandfather, of the days when no-one was tracked on Googlenet and anyone could say anything," they cry in Los Angeles pidgin, a mix of English, Spanish, and Mandarin. The old man smiles but his eyes look haunted. "Oh children, once there was a time when the network wasn't even called Googlenet and the Watchers were just a company called Google! Back then, they had a motto: 'Do No Evil.' If only we'd known, little ones. If only we'd known what was coming and that they meant to stop anyone from doing 'evil'". The old man reaches up with a shaky hand and rubs his fingers over the scar where his Googlenet access chip was forcibly removed. Almost inaudibly, he whispers "Who knew that protesting the government was evil?"

And then sometimes I just get a vision of the Deathstar with a giant 'G' on it and the Imperial March playing, which is a bit more amusing.

Hmm, perhaps I think about this stuff too much!

Privacy Advocates

There are far worse threats to privacy than Google. Watch out for continued government laws that require ISPs of all flavors to maintain data for long periods of time, and to turn it over to law enforcement for less and less stringent requirements. If you are worried about your privacy, don't sign up for the stupid service. Rotate your search engines. Use random Wi-Fi hotspots. If people want their privacy protected, they need to take responsibility for it. You reduce your privacy, and you get free services and make some services easier to use. Most people are ok with that. Whether its because they don't care about their privacy or they are stupid doesn't really matter. They made a choice, they don't need advocates fighting to put the cat back in the bag. They most certainly don't need corporations looking out for their privacy interests, unless its a selling point. Businesses provide services and make money. They don't take care of you. Take responsibility for yourself.

OHMY GOOOD!!!

I might have to...

Clear My Cookies!!!!!!!!!

Y'know. You don't have to use Google and you don't have to retain all the cookies your machine is sent.

 

Why can't I

Why can't I get the same storage service Alberto Gonzolez gets at the RNC?

DoubleClick = eViL

Sorry folks, if Google pays 3.2 billion to obtain DoubleClick for any reason, that's just evil, because DoubleClick has ALWAYS been evil. So? By correlation, I guess that makes Google evil too, huh?

methinks so. I sure as Hell ain't trusting Google with my data so much as I can help it.

Like Capitalist... --in collusion w/ da Feds'-- Big Brother needs a name?

----

vote with your default search engine of choice [apache.org] folks

so what?

The web history feature is completely consistent with what Google has been striving for - i.e. to provide smart services operating at large scales, in exchange with the role of the 'indexer' of all internet experiences.

And you forget - that this feature us purely voluntary, and by default is set to off.

PR Decoy

What a relief. The option to be voluntarily surveilled proves they weren't already doing it. Those silly tinfoils hats were bent all along.. Phew.. I knew it!

CustomizeGoogle

For the paranoids I'd recommend the CustomizeGoogle [customizegoogle.com] firefox extension - among other things (like removing those pesky ads) it can reduce the ability for Google to track what you are doing.

Dumb question... why would anyone use this?

You can alway just type "ctrl+h" (ctrl+shift+h" for IE) (or click the button at top of your browser)and get your history of sites visited... Heck, Both IE's Firefox's are even searchable.

Money?

So the question is: How is Google planning to get away with selling this information to companies?

Beagle?

How is this different from the Search tool in Gnome called "Beagle". Sure I realize Beagle is stored locally on "your" hardware, but remember when you get in trouble there is no more "your". A raid at your residence, or a court order to google / your isp gets you in the same place at the end if you are indeed "evil". In the US the SS is always in power ladies and gents. If your some kind of hacker of some sort where you need to protect yourself and privacy because you are engaging in illegal activities on the net, you have got major problems to begin with. If your connected to some sort of maffia, you have got major problems to begin with as well.

It IS 1984 in all respects of the book and film. You realize the net tracks everything and knows everything about everyone. Unless your living up in Montana, working at the local grocery store getting paid in cash off the books (no credit card, no phone, no electricity etc...) you have NO PRIVACY already.

Good luck on ranting about teh Google, they are simply making it easier for you to research your search history on the net.

Future Hauntings

"We see here that 10 years ago you searched and perhaps retrieved an article about xyz. Yes, do we realize it was legal information at that time, but it is not currently and you might have retained that knowledge. Please come with us."

"We see that 10 years ago you did a search on such and such item. Yes, we realize you may never intended to have acted on this information at the time, but the laws have chagned and we can now arrest you under the new 'homeland security intervention intent act'. Please come with us"

No thanks, i think ill pass.

Look at DoubleClick's IP - it gets clearer

Key DoubleClick assets from a recent post we did:

US Patent 7039599 - Automatic Placement of Advertising [patentmonkey.com]
Highlight: Claim 1. "A method for advertisement selection, comprising: (a) receiving from an advertiser Web site feedback representing user transactions at the advertiser Web site, the user transactions resulting from user response to at least one of a plurality of direct advertisements; (b) receiving a request to display a direct advertisement to a user; and (c) selecting, in response to the request, one of the plurality of direct advertisements for display based at least in part upon the advertiser feedback."

Analysis: This patent has a priority back to 1997 and allows for advertiser feedback from users on a website. Given Google's move into CPA, this patent would clearly provide added leverage to allow more data to flow between the advertiser and Google's system to optimize which ads should be displayed at a publisher.

US Patent 7085682 - Analyzing Website Activity [patentmonkey.com]
Highlight: A large number of independent claims covering the tracking and reporting of user activities to provide analysis of event level detail, which includes the addition of the retaining details of users' adding products to shopping carts, and repeat usage of a client site.

Analysis: In addition to the above, Google's analysis and reporting features for a tool like Analytics for a CPA advertiser become even more robust allowing for unique visitor tracking and loyalty. A robust addition to Google Analytics to be sure.

US Patent 5948061 - Delivering, Targeting and Measuring Online Ads [patentmonkey.com]
Highlight: What all consumer privacy folks have feared for the last 12 years. The tracking of user specific information and the performance and ongoing management of ad delivery based on user information.

Analysis: Whether we like it or not, Google retains a lot of information about our searches connected to our profiles. This technology does what the original vision of DoubleClick was built on: user-level targeted ads.

This announcement was easy to see coming.

Is it wrong of me to actually like this service...

What exactly are people searching for that they are afraid of having tracked? I use google all the time, the more it tracks my searches, the more it seems to know what I'm looking for. For instance, google suggest has gotten excellent at guessing what I want to search for.

I just don't understand the fear you people have of someone knowing what you searched for. And so what if they buy DoubleClick? I don't consider google ads to be intrusive in the least and with adblock I don't think I've seen a doubleclick ad in ages. Worst case scenario: if a doubleclick ad does gets through adblock it may just be relevant.

I am trying out Google Web Search

I signed up for it this week, to give it a trial run. Well, actually I've been using Google's Search History since its inception and I really like that. Being able to find things I searched for in the past makes my life a lot easier sometimes. I know it could potentially be a big privacy problem for me but it's something I choose to do and I know the risks. Anyways, Google Web Search, their new feature, requires the Google Web Toolbar, which I don't use on any of my computers, because I never really saw the point of it once I moved over to Firefox years ago and it had a built in search bar. I installed it at work and tried to make it as minimalistic as possible while still keeping its functionality, which I'm not sure how to exploit yet. I'll probably tinker with it this week at work and see if it's worth it for me to use. I'm guessing I will not keep it at the moment.

use scroogle scraper...

When you're really worried about tracking from google, why not use scroogle scraper?: http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm [scroogle.org] Mark

Did anyone actually check out this feature?

...Before getting all pissed off about privacy violation? Google has always logged your web history, the only thing really new about this is the fact that you can view it all from one page and, more importantly, you can choose to delete your entire history and pause it indefinitely. Explain to me how adding this is a bad thing.

Aggregate data only

These companies only care about aggregate data, not your data. That use doesn't violate any individual's privacy. On the other hand, aggregate data is all about "violating" collective privacy, what people in general want, what will push their buttons to get them to buy/use something. Of course there are others who would be interested in data on individuals, but they probably have their own arrangements with ISPs already.

No centralization!

This can be done without centralization, with a firefox extension, maybe even something pcap/ethereal based which records even what torrents might have been downloaded, rss feeds that might have been read through an rss client, etc... This needs to be a feature of the OS or my browser or my rss client or my bittorrent client, not a way for Google to collect data. Clearly, desktop search hasn't gone far enough if there actually is a demand for this sort of a feature. If the privacy concerns get loud enough, OSX will probably be the first to have this sort of capability.

Unless they're willing to provide a VPN tunnel for all of my websurfing needs, and promise to delete the all of the data when I ask, thanks but no thanks. Let me know when you start personalizing news and web search using the newly collected data.

Google hates your privacy

I am starting to feat that the real issue with google is not that they want to spy every move we make but that they actually tell us about the way they handle our information.

What if the other web services do things that endanger our privacy in similar or worse ways without telling us? Reminds me of the AOL data leak...

I don't understand what the problem is...

Look, any deleted e-mails can be found if you searched hard enough. I talked with a recruiter for an e-mail security firm, and he confirmed this statement. Maybe Google is eliminating some of the detective work involved in this issue, but otherwise they're not offering anything a good Computer Forensics or Information Networks course can't teach you.

And also, most of the money Google earns is through advertising. The better and more accurate it can advertise a product to you, the better job it's doing, and the more money it makes. It isn't as though the company became rich simply by programming a search engine (a damn good one, at that), so you can expect Google will want to keep track of its users' behaviors in order to maintain its profit margin.

at least they are open about it

There are probably half a dozen institutions collecting this kind of data about you: your ISP, a couple of federal and state agencies, several advertising networks, etc. At least Google is open about it and you can have a look at the data.

TrackMeNot

Another reason to get the TrackMeNot Firefox extension [mozilla.org], which performs random Google queries constantly in the background. It frustrates attempts at identifying a user through search term frequency analysis.

"Do no evil" is a huge misdirection

I'll be dramatic: Google is a huge threat to human freedoms.

And now defend it:

Google is effectively an information black hole - collecting information and letting it back out for more money. They are now sitting on $12B in cash to buy other information collection systems (companies). Most founders and owners can be bought for much less. The one with the most information almost always can win any game/competition.

Unfortunately, the problems that google will be able to cause people/companies are enormous, therefore, the money they will be able to get to "avoid" those problems is similarly enormous. Frankly, unless they change their one-way information collection toon quickly, there will be a loud and growing cry to ban/avoid Google rising in the next few years.

While services from the "big" Internet companies offer are often great and useful, the real tradeoff people are making is a one-way street: making these giant companies so powerful. They are not necessarily working in the best interests of ordinary people, rather in the interest of making even more money.

Eventually, there needs to be some capitation on capitalism for the world to be truly global and to balance local interests with common global ones.

It's not "Strictly" voluntary

The voluntary part is only about whether you want to see your web history or not. Search history is already stored, whether you wanted it or not.

On first login you'll see all the past search queries you made starting from some 2-3 years back.
However, after signing up, you can clear your entire search history or selectively delete certain queries.

And with Google toolbar installed, you can have it track not only search queries but also all the web pages you'll ever visit.

why blackboxsearch was invented

Google and AOL we salute YOU! http://www.blackboxsearch.com/ [blackboxsearch.com]

use a proxy

heres an easy to use one.

http://www.mysecureisp.com/ [mysecureisp.com]

Data storage fueling fears?

No, I don't think Google's data mine fuels fear so much as it fuels envy. Just think of the corporations and government agencies and ... well, just about everyone who would like a fat pipe right into the GFS root. Yeah. I know I would.

I've always maintained that when you start concentrating something, anything, at a certain point it becomes dangerous ... if nothing else, to the status quo. Now, having said that, there is Bill Gates, who has accumulated a lot of money, and is doing his level best to maintain the status quo. But he's still dangerous, and Google in it's own way is no less dangerous, just for having collected all that stuff. Google may never again do anything evil ... but that accumulated data is still there. It would be hard to get rid of it even if we wanted to, seeing as how it's distributed all around the planet. Worse from a privacy perspective, it looks like it's about to be combined with DoubleClick's database. That's really a terrifying amount of information to be in anyone's hands, however honorable they may be.

For now we're probably safe enough, but Page and Brin won't be around forever, and those who eventually end up in charge of their brainchild may not have the same scruples.

On another note, that might make an interesting story ... a post-apocalyptic setting where the survivors are literally mining ancient datacenters for knowledge that would help them rebuild. Oh, I've read some novels with a plotline similar to that, but it would be fun to have the protagonists digging up an old Google facility, maybe firing it up by reactivating a nearby hydroelectric power plant.

Google? What about Axiom, Experian, etc?

You know all those club cards people sign up for? Not to mention the records of your credit card purchases and god knows what else? All that data is munged together by companies like Axiom and Experian, who use that data to create extremely details profiles about individuals, and then sell that data to marketing firms. And this has been going on for decades.

Seriously, anyone afraid of Google, today, simply hasn't been paying attention.

Just another way

This is gust another way to track everything you do, like others said about the bank details ecte ct. But I really cant see that being a problem. What it is they have had to start doing it as Alexa left them, so now they dont have that resource they have to make there own.

Re:What data storage?

Over 150 emails, going back over 2 years, disappeared from my inbox one night and they said there was nothing they could do to restore them....

Yep, same here. I hope that their paying customers are treated better than that!

-b.

Re:What data storage?

because the NSA are not very good at giving back the hardware to the company from which they subpoenaed it.

Voluntary???

I signed up for this today and not surprising it shows history from march itself. I guess that's when Google launched it. I fail to understand why google asks people to sign up for it and says that its voluntary when they have already collected my data for more than a month now. I feel they should have better covered this up. I guess some developed at Google got too enthusiastic to show off his capabilities when you sign in the first time itself. They are sure to get a few law suits for this.