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Linked List Patented in 2006

Posted by Hemos on Mon Mar 19, 2007 08:11 AM
from the good-thing-that's-protected-now-as-well dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Congratulations are in order to Ming-Jen Wang of LSI Logic Corporation who, in patent #10260471 managed to invent the linked list. From the abstract, "A computerized list is provided with auxiliary pointers for traversing the list in different sequences. One or more auxiliary pointers enable a fast, sequential traversal of the list with a minimum of computational time. Such lists may be used in any application where lists may be reordered for various purposes." Good-bye doubly linked list. We should also give praise to the extensive patent review performed by Cochran Freund & Young LLP."
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  • Prior Art? (Score:5, Funny)

    by tedgyz (515156) * on Monday March 19 2007, @08:13AM (#18400031) Homepage
    I would show the prior art, but I can't read the reel-to-reel tapes.
      • by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:47AM (#18400281)

        I think you misunderstood. To make the links, you take about 5-6 inches of reel-to-reel tape, wrap it around to form a loop, and then seal it with a bit of sticky tape. Then you take the next piece of reel-to-reel, and loop it through the first before sealing it, thus forming the link. The prior art the GPP mentioned is found in every school for five-year-olds in the country, around 15 December every year, and has been since long before your new-fangled punch cards were invented! :-)

          • make cast? (Score:5, Funny)

            by norminator (784674) on Monday March 19 2007, @10:11AM (#18401017)

            In my day we had to make cast the bronze ourselves

            make cast? I've done make, make install, make clean, make menuconfig, make xconfig, make modules make modules install, but I've never done make cast...

            But obviously I've never compiled anything with a linked list in it anyhow, since this dude just barely invented them.
      • Re:Prior Art? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Fordiman (689627) <fordimanNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday March 19 2007, @08:57AM (#18400381) Homepage Journal
        Well, if your read the patent, it's for triply-linked lists, the purpose for which I can only fathom. Possibly, it's easier to sequence them for block encryption or somesuch. Though, I also imagine that the patent will get killed for its obviousness; adding a tertiary pointer when you need to access a list via another sequence is pretty damned obvious.
        • Re:Prior Art? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by kripkenstein (913150) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:45AM (#18400787)
          Well, if your read the patent, it's for triply-linked lists

          True. So it is just slightly less ridiculous than the headline makes it out to be. For crying out loud, I implemented various sorting methods on my linked lists by adding multiple pointers to them two decades ago as a teenager, and I don't believe for a second that I was doing anything remarkable at all. Once you have heard of linked lists then doubly-linked lists, triply-linked lists or whatever-linked lists are pretty much obvious.

          Anyhow, what is really missing in all of this discussion is a response from the patent submitter or the persons in charge of accepting the patent; we never get this on Slashdot nor the stories referred to. Since the patent appears to be so unbelievable, I am very curious as to what their official response would be. Perhaps some IT journalist can get one?
  • by erroneus (253617) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:15AM (#18400059) Homepage
    People are immediatly shouting "prior art!" I don't care about prior art as much as I care about the fact that it's another software patent and unworthy of being patented.
    • by dreamchaser (49529) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:29AM (#18400133) Homepage Journal
      You're absolutely right. Patenting an algorithm like this would be like me patenting, "A method of transportation involving the repeated placement of one foot in front of the other, thereby conveying motion upon the transportee."
      • by ThePiMan2003 (676665) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:51AM (#18400315)
        Patenting y=mx+b as a method of drawing a line is wrong. Patenting a device that uses this to draw a line, that is different. Algorithms that describe basic ways of doing things are not novel. The biggest difference though is that with a device, if someone discovers some neat effect they can patent a certain way of doing it, but others can come an innovate on that device, inventing something that has the same effect but does it differently and is therefore not covered under the original patent. In software they are patenting the effect, here we have a mutli-way linked linked list, something that CS students have to do in freshman level classes. But now, we can't use it in any way without having to worry about defending ourselves. As someone who writes software for a living I would rather give up on ever getting a patent than having to worry for the rest of my life about implementing something someone else came up with and patented.

        The there is the issue that computer science moves along at such a clip that one company having a monopoly on an idea for the standard patent term could seriously stifle innovation in the field, which is directly against what the entire point of patents are.
          • by montyzooooma (853414) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:44AM (#18400769)
            Aside from old age, heart disease and cancer are the big killers in the developed world and they both see major improvement by simply eating healthy and exercising more. Now when someone comes up with a drug that cures cancer as effectively as healthy living prevents it happening in the first place then you can try convincing me about the benefits of drug research.

            Now the more likely scenario is that the drug companies are mainly working on chemical solutions to psychological conditions like depression which were often previously treated with counselling. Those 100 million dollar drugs aren't curing anything, they're alleviating symptoms marginally better than the previous patent-protected drug did.

            • by Fnkmaster (89084) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:45AM (#18400797)
              Finding compounds that are potentially active against some disease, especially compounds with relatively new mechanisms of action, is considered "basic research" - academia does a good job in this area, because it makes for good papers, PhD dissertations and academic plaudits.

              Taking those compounds and ensuring they are safe to administer in humans (rather than just animal models), and that they are as efficacious or more efficacious than other existing treatments is a costly, time-consuming process that requires managing a huge staff, coordinating clinics and hospitals, managing information systems, etc. This is not something universities or most research labs are set up to do properly.

              If you eliminated patents, you clearly wouldn't stop the scientists, but you'd put a huge damper on industry and financiers wanting to back the latter part of this process. This would result in far fewer drugs getting through the FDA approval process.

              It may be the case that there is a more societally efficient way to do this than the current system, but I'm not sure what it is. One problem with the current system is that one effect of it is that the US effectively subsidizes other countries drug availability, because drug companies expect to earn a large portion of their profits here, and have to deal with centrally negotiated pricing and other issues in foreign markets. But I don't see how you'd think that eliminating patents entirely would help the situation.
  • by sco08y (615665) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:16AM (#18400061)
    I read the claims... somebody submit a patent for insertion and deletion operations.
  • by Paul Crowley (837) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:17AM (#18400071) Homepage Journal
    If you RTFP, what's actually being patented is the idea of using multiple pointers so that the same item can be in more than one linked list at a time. This idea is also a long way from being novel, but it's slightly different from patenting the linked list. Arguably a doubly-linked list is prior art...
    • The same patent was mentioned in this Slashdot article [slashdot.org]. What is new since then?
    • If you RTFP, what's actually being patented is the idea of using multiple pointers so that the same item can be in more than one linked list at a time. This idea is also a long way from being novel, but it's slightly different from patenting the linked list. Arguably a doubly-linked list is prior art...

      Back in lat 70s when I was a junior programmer, I did some hacking in SNOBOL to produce a list of thinkgs that had to be sorted two different ways. I had nodes that were in two separate list at the same time. Had I known I would have patented it (unfortunately I lost the card deck with the source).

      • by nickovs (115935) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:08AM (#18400473)
        ... if your solution doesn't infringe leaf nodes in the tree of claims, it doesn't infringe.

        That's simply not true. Patent claims are frequently built upon prior claims in the same patent; if a later claim is built on an earlier claim (e.g. in this case where claim 2 cites claim 1) then you need to infringe both parts in order to fall fowl of the later claim. That said, infringing a stand-alone claim (like claim 1 here) is sufficient in itself.

        As far as I can tell claim 1 really does hit a standard doubly-linked list; you have the plurality of data items, a primary order of traversal and an auxiliary order (e.g. reverse traversal). There is obvious prior art for this and the claim should be invalid. Claim 2 is therefor also invalid, irrespective of it's novelty, since it cites an invalid claim. Claims 3 and 4 also have obvious prior art.

        Personally I think that patents like this are great, since they add substantial support to the argument that the USPTO are, despite their avowed best efforts, incapable of assessing the novelty of software patents, and that they should stop trying.
  • Oh yeah (Score:5, Funny)

    by eeyore (78059) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:28AM (#18400131) Homepage

    I read about this technique about 23 years ago. What is going on here? This looks like material for a slashdot poll, viz:-


    Why do you think that the latest LSI is bogus?
    • (o) It isn't. Free enterprise musn't be regulated by stupid rules, such as "prior art"
    • (o) I read about this in Knuth
    • (o) I slept through a college lecture about this.
    • (o) You woke me up, you insensitive clod!
    • (o) It is an attempt to boost LSI's share price
    • (o) It is a pathetic attempt to dis' LSI!
    • (o) Cowboy Neal has prior art

    What about it, guys?

    --
    E.
  • by TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:29AM (#18400135) Journal
    I've got so much code modifying to do.
  • Two things... (Score:5, Informative)

    by thebdj (768618) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:39AM (#18400213) Journal
    The patent # is actually 7028023. The summary quoted number is the application number. Also, this is OLD, issued almost a full year ago. I actually think we had an argument about this long before now. I am starting to wonder if some of these anonymous submissions for these are actually coming from examiners with a clue. (Trust me there are some.) And look, I found it. [slashdot.org]
  • Texture mapping [google.com].

    How about slocate [google.com]?

    Or rsync [google.com]?

    Oh and data muxing [google.com].

    Fantastic!
  • by Greyfox (87712) on Monday March 19 2007, @10:17AM (#18401061) Homepage Journal
    Should be forced to eat a printout of every example of prior art ever published, including the 70s era data structures book I still have on my bookshelf which details the structure in assembly language and the Java, C++ and Linux kernel code bases. Then for dessert he should be forced to eat a printout of the patent. I'd say the applicant should too but he was probably just being sarcastic.

    My regime would require this for patents that are blatantly obvious or have as much published prior art as linked lists do. You can be there'd be a lot fewer frivolous patents issued if the examiner and the applicant were forced to eat the printouts if the patent turned out to be retarded.

    • by larryboymi (1026734) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:20AM (#18400543)
      I was an examiner for awhile. Got out after 9 months because I saw the path. A lot of $, but a lot of OCD people, and stress due to quotas.

      I had a B.S. in C.S. and I was simply working on GUI patent apps. They wouldn't hire someone with a degree in an outside area (like Business or something) to do C.S. work, although there were a lot of EE's doing C.S. work (although I see that in the commercial realm a lot too, not always to great success, but sometimes).

      Wouldn't recommend it for anyone other than an anti-social who wants to make bank and doesn't mind a boring, high-stress job.