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MPAA Violates Another Software License

Journal written by Alien54 (180860) and posted by Zonk on Sun Feb 18, 2007 01:46 AM
from the that's-a-little-cold dept.
Patrick Robib, a blogger who wrote his own blogging engine called Forest Blog recently noticed that none other than the MPAA was using his work, and had completely violated his linkware license by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, not crediting him in any way. The MPAA blog was using the Forest Blog software, but had completely stripped off his name, and links back to his site. He only found about it accidentally when he happened to visit the MPAA site.
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  • by viking80 (697716) on Saturday February 17 2007, @09:48PM (#18056684)
    (Last Journal: Sunday September 16, @03:39PM)
    I am quite sure MPAA would fail in many similar regards if someone would take the effort to investigate.
    • by daknapp (156051) * on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:44AM (#18057812)

      Wouldn't it be nice to send the friendly folks from the BSA to do a complete software audit of the MPAA?

      Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up: the BSA investigates the MPAA, who investigates the RIAA, who invesigates the BSA, etc. ad nauseum, and they could just leave the rest of us alone.

      [ Parent ]
      • by eskayp (597995) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:10AM (#18057954)
        "Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up:..."

        Their circle is already a bunch of jerks.
        [ Parent ]
        • by Mistlefoot (636417) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:54AM (#18058180)
          While I hope this is true - it would look good on the MPAA

          1) The screencaps show very little detail
          2) "Dan Glickman Forum" from the screencaps turn up nothing in Google.
          3) The line provided http://www.mpaa.org/blog_default.asp doesn't exist, isn't found in google OR the wayback machine and the home page back in September 06 looks very much like it does today - I don't find any obvious links to this.

          If the MPAA accuses me of stealing files they had better produce some evidence and I damn well expect (not that they desterve it) that evidence has to be provided on this.

          Of course my Google skills might not be up to snuff - but come on community, find the evidence while it still exists - if it did at all.
          [ Parent ]
          • by Peet42 (904274) <Peet42 AT Netscape DOT net> on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:29AM (#18058478)
            The third screenshot is of an article that was published by Glickman in "Variety":

            http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117931921.html?c ategoryid=9&cs=1 [variety.com]

            Now, it's possible that he was lazy and just dumped an article he was paid for straight into his BLOG, but it's equally likely the screenshot was faked using data that was already out there. :-/
            [ Parent ]
            • by heroofhyr (777687) on Sunday February 18 2007, @05:05AM (#18058598)
              I have a strange question: why is the article he supposedly took a screenshot from dated September 29th, 2006, but the calendar for the archive of posts is February 2007? I thought perhaps the calendar in this software might display the current month regardless of which post you're reading, but if you look at this link to the author of the programme's own site, here [hostforest.co.uk], you'll see that the calendar does indeed change with the post you're reading. Which means the article on the MPAA blog is supposedly from over 3 months ago but the calendar is showing this month. Either the screencap is faked, the web admin who set up the software doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, or the software needs work. There's also no mention of the blog ever being there in Google or the Internet Archive despite the former surely having a copy and the latter already having an index of tens of thousands of pages from the MPAA site, and not a single one of them matching a search for this blog. Maybe the guy just wants to do some viral marketing, maybe he supports the MPAA philosophically and wants a bunch of overhyped, gullible nerds to get upset so he can make them look foolish later. Or maybe it is legitimate and he just happens to have stumbled upon the site, the link just happens to be taken down, and all mention of it from the face of the Internet has disappeared forever. That seems really likely.
              [ Parent ]
          • by Em Ellel (523581) on Sunday February 18 2007, @06:53AM (#18058870)
            After doing some similar research, I came to the conclusion it is either a clever marketing ploy by blog author, or more likely some hidden prototype site their web development team was using and as it was never linked from main page, it was never found by any spiders (yet referrers to authors site showed up in his logs, which is exactly how he found out about it), Turns out the latter is the case [patrickrobin.co.uk]

            -Em
            [ Parent ]
            • by Danse (1026) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:08PM (#18061158)

              After doing some similar research, I came to the conclusion it is either a clever marketing ploy by blog author, or more likely some hidden prototype site their web development team was using and as it was never linked from main page, it was never found by any spiders (yet referrers to authors site showed up in his logs, which is exactly how he found out about it), Turns out the latter is the case

              Yeah, well they had it set up on a public-facing web server, accessible by anyone. You don't test software on a public server. Given that the MPAA is not exactly known for being a forgiving bunch, I don't think their excuses amount to much. If they had some public goodwill, I could see giving them a pass on it, but they seem to feel so strongly about copyright infringement that it just wouldn't seem right to let them off on this. I'm sure they would agree, right? If copyright infringement is so terrible, surely they should be facing a really hefty fine here, right? Maybe some jail time? If they're going to insist on strict enforcement, then they had better get their own affairs and people under some seriously tight control too.
              [ Parent ]
              • by rtb61 (674572) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:41PM (#18063506)
                (http://www.on.net/)
                That idea reminds me of the commercials on DVDs saying that piracy supports organised crime. Well based upon the actual historical track record and organised crimes well known willingness and even desire to invest in the RIAA and the MPA members media, after all, "sex, drugs and rock and roll" or "the casting couch" or the media industries well known addiction to cocaine etc, the opposite is far more likely to be true.

                So the actual reality is closer to this idea, that if you really want to hurt organised crime, you a far more morally compelled to pirate media and distribute it for free and as a result, cut off a substantial portion of their income.

                As a bonus, just think of all the 'artists' (well at least in their own minds) you will be saving from a life of drunken, drugged up depravity ;-) (instead they will look forward to long healthy life as food service professionals and as a double plus, we get to avoid the endlessly monotonous exposure to their aberrant behaviour).

                [ Parent ]
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • by Patrick Robin (1065580) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:45AM (#18059196)
            I'm the creator of Forets Blog and, obviously, the author of this article so its only right that I respond to your queries.

            1) The screenshots show as much detail as possible, I can/could only view the output of my system and not the source.
            2/3) I came across the blog through my website referals when they accessed the RSS feed from my site. The site was live and online but I'm unsure whether it was ever linked to or if it was spidered by google, but it was on a live web server that was accessable by any member of the public. It has been removed from their web server since the article was written after some dialogue between myself and the MPAA.

            I have been in communication with Paul Egge and Richard Kroon (Director of Application Development) at the MPAA and have copies of all of the emails that were sent.
            [ Parent ]
          • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by ne0n (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @06:19PM
      • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Hognoxious (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @03:26AM
      • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by nurb432 (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @08:25AM
      • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by X.mpls (Score:1) Monday February 19 2007, @12:21AM
      • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by intheshelter (Score:1) Monday February 19 2007, @10:43AM
      • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by mpe (Score:2) Monday February 19 2007, @01:32PM
    • Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by chawly (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @03:21AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Well, not anymore... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rwven (663186) on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:48AM (#18057836)
    (http://www.rwven.com/ | Last Journal: Monday January 23 2006, @02:52PM)
    Apparently they're hiding now. I get a "Page cannot be found" on the MPAA blog...
    • Re:Well, not anymore... by frup (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @01:54AM
    • Re:Well, not anymore... by quadra23 (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:11AM
    • Re:Well, not anymore... by h2g2bob (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @05:54AM
      • Its sorta legit.... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Em Ellel (523581) on Sunday February 18 2007, @07:00AM (#18058890)
        The article needs update [patrickrobin.co.uk]

        short of it is:

        MPAA Response:

        The material has been removed from our Web server.

                * No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
                * The blog was never assigned a domain name.
                * The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
                * The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
                * The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
                * Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.


        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Its sorta legit.... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by TheRaven64 (641858) on Sunday February 18 2007, @07:39AM (#18058996)
          (http://theravensnest.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 07, @07:05AM)

          Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.
          So, presumably, that means it's fine for me to download films created by MPAA members as long as I say I'll buy the DVD if I like them?
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Its sorta legit.... (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Em Ellel (523581) on Sunday February 18 2007, @11:11AM (#18059998)

            Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.
            So, presumably, that means it's fine for me to download films created by MPAA members as long as I say I'll buy the DVD if I like them?
            First of all, bad choice of words on the title, I actually meant the claim against MPAA is sorta legit. But I'll bite and give you my thoughts on this. A better analogy would be "its ok to download films to watch a first few minutes and then say if I want to watch it, I would buy the dvd."

            The actual point of the software is to be used by large number of people to read/respond to postings - this was not done in this case, just an internal mock up of a site (which of course should not have been posted on a public website, but still).

            And despite my dislike of all things with AA in the title (sorry AAA, aardvarks) and given our collective thirst for revenge against THIS *AA, it does not seem to be THAT outlandish to use the software in this way, and even the author of said software agreed.

            -Em
            [ Parent ]
        • Re:Its sorta legit.... by borud (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @08:13AM
        • New Defense Offered by WebHostingGuy (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:36AM
        • It was found, how? by wytcld (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:44AM
        • Re:Its sorta legit.... SORTA by drunowho (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @03:15PM
        • Re:Its sorta legit.... by B.D.Mills (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @06:54PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ydna (32354) * <andrew@swe g e r . n et> on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:53AM (#18057862)
    (http://sweger.net/~andrew/)
    This is not the first time the MPAA has been caught pirating the copyrighted works of others. They got caught making and distributing copies of This Film Is Not Yet Rated [imdb.com] without permission (and after they claimed they did not make any copies).
    • Re:Not the first time by iminplaya (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:44AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:57AM (#18058188)
      I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring. Maybe if I post that the MPAA were caught red-handed drowning kittens and leaving the toilet seat up I can be modded "informative" too?
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)

        by great throwdini (118430) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:24AM (#18058298)

        I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring.

        Should you happen to rent or buy This Film Is Not Yet Rated [netflix.com] the "incident" discussed in-thread is detailed during the audio commentary (by the film's director and producer) and again within a deleted scene (the phone call from an MPAA lawyer that informed the director of unauthorized copying was filmed, though the MPAA's half of the conversation was not directly recorded).

        In a nutshell, the director had submitted the film to the MPAA for ratings review and was told that no one other than the raters would view the tape provided. He was also told that no copies would be made of the supplied materials. It came to pass that members of the MPAA admitted to not only screening the film for several non-raters but also to making at least one complete (and unauthorized) copy of the supplied tape.

        Wikipedia covers this same ground [wikipedia.org] though that summary is about as lacking as mine in terms of substantive references.

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Not the first time by Chelloveck (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:35AM
      • Re:Not the first time by Syberghost (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @04:36PM
    • Re:Not the first time by Martin G. 1984 (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @06:51AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Well... by Xenographic (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @12:41PM
      • Re:Well... by Maxo-Texas (Score:2) Monday February 19 2007, @01:08AM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:55AM (#18057878)
    At least *I* make sure that "grep GPL /dev/dvd" gets a match before I copy a DVD.
    • by SirSlud (67381) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:06AM (#18057930)
      (http://www.sirsonic.com/)
      Thats not the issue really. The issue is that strict copyright law is basically unenforcable. This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.

      If anything, this is like the futility to pointing out that MPAA or RIAA heads' family members pirate content. At the end of the day, what are people against the copyright lobby fighting for? Some say downright incorrect prosecution, which obviously happens, but underneath it all, its the result of a lack leniancy and less strict laws. The only reason that breaking a "Linkware" license is news is because of it highlites that copyright laws are, in the end, only selectively enforced, not because of some organizational hypocricy. The hypocricy basically is unintentional, and to me, thats really what the problem is. Its not some blatent flogging, its just the old adage of the impractibility of ensuring that those around you practise what you preach. Getting onto that soapbox and being adamant about how you live your life is in no way an argument against an organzation that is hypocritical for the very reason that it is not one single person but a large organization of people. Its like some company saying that j-walking in all cases, always, everytime, hurts their bottom line; it'd take you less than 10 minutes if you had full access to everyone at a company to spot apparent hypocricy, but that wouldn't be the time to point out, "Hey, *I* don't j-walk." Its not revelent, because at some point, the eagerness of enforcement is more relevant than the actual law.
      [ Parent ]
  • Maybe... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:57AM (#18057890)
    the author should extort the RIAA for $10,000 per byte that was pirated.
    • Re:Maybe... by log0 (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:52AM
  • It looks like a replay (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iminplaya (723125) on Sunday February 18 2007, @01:59AM (#18057904)
    (Last Journal: Friday November 09, @01:36AM)
    It looks like a replay of the times when Hollywood was flaunting the Edison patents. Anything new here?
  • Who's laughing now! (Score:3, Funny)

    by DimGeo (694000) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:10AM (#18057950)
    (http://dimiter.dyndns.org/)
    Who's the pirate now, MAFIAA?
  • Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:19AM (#18057996)
    If you hold the MPAA to the law on this, then it is a tacit acknowledgement that I.P. is a valid thing. You can't have it both ways, Slashdot.
    • Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by DA-MAN (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:29AM
    • Fair use? by R3d M3rcury (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:32AM
    • It's not about whether or not anyone supports or opposes copyright law. The MPAA has claimed in public that copyright infringement is immoral and unethical. Their motivation for doing this is obvious: If they inform the public that some action is illegal, while the public thinks there's nothing wrong with the action morally and ethically, then they risk having the law changed to reflect the public's opinion. Convincing people that they have the moral/ethical high ground ensures that they can continue to benefit from the current legal system, or even lobby successfully for stricter measures in their favour.

      Remember their ad campaign:

      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A TELEVISION
      YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A DVD
      DOWNLOADING PIRATED FILMS IS STEALING

      The message that they are obviously trying to advance is that copyright infringement is stealing, and therefore is immoral, unethical, and illegal. However, their blatant disregard for the exclusive legal rights of others under copyright law demonstrates the hypocrisy of this claim to the moral and ethical high ground. It shows that even the people behind the MPAA are not themselves convinced that the issue is as simple as "copyright infringement is stealing". How, then, do they expect the rest of the public to be convinced?

      [ Parent ]
    • There is a difference. by bheekling (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @03:52AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by 91degrees (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @04:06AM
    • Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by David Jao (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @05:05AM
    • Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by element-o.p. (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:34PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Middleman? (Score:1)

    by noidentity (188756) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:24AM (#18058022)
    What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of the code available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original code with intact copyright notices?
    • Re:Middleman? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by devilspgd (652955) * on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:46AM (#18058138)
      What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of Epic Movie available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original movie with intact copyright notices?
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Middleman? by Farmer Tim (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @04:39AM
        • Re:Middleman? by devilspgd (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @04:47AM
      • I'm sorry by beakerMeep (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @06:55AM
      • Re:Middleman? by mollymoo (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @09:44AM
    • Re:Middleman? by DamnStupidElf (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @03:26AM
    • Re:Middleman? by dosboot (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @02:40PM
  • well yeah.... (Score:1)

    by Grinin (1050028) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:27AM (#18058030)
    (http://www.chrisllorca.com/)
    Its ok for the MPAA to steal whatever they want, duh!

    Its not ok for you to download crap that you wouldn't have paid to see in the first place.
  • Civil (not criminal) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cdn-programmer (468978) <terr.terralogic@net> on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:29AM (#18058046)
    In spite of the fact there is criminal legislation in place for copyright infringment, I expect the prosecutors will look the other way and declare it to be civil. This will just be another example of the double standard.

    As a civil issue ( the only other legal avenue ), you can only hope to obtain justice through the courts. It will cost $1000's to get a judgment, perhaps $100,000's. There is no justice. All we have is persecution it would seem with the powerful pretty much doing whatever they like with impunity.

    While its not fair, the question any prosecutor is going to ask is if spending the taxpayers money on this is a good idea. Of course, spending the taxpayers money prosecuting a person charged with a traffic incident is always considered a good idea because its cheap (usually) and meant to keep the sheep in line and paying the fines.

    Am I a cynic?
  • Contact MPAA about piracy (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:32AM (#18058054)
    Here, I suggest contact MPAA about the whole piracy issue and point them to the offending party; themselves.

    http://www.mpaa.org/ReportPiracy.asp [mpaa.org]
    Please feel free to let them know about their own transgressions.
  • Here's the MPAA response: (Score:5, Informative)

    by All_One_Mind (945389) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:37AM (#18058084)
    (http://www.agaresmedia.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 15 2006, @04:05PM)
    From the next blog post [patrickrobin.co.uk] on the authors site:

    Well, I must say I'm surprised;to after getting no response to my previous emails to the MPAA about their use of Forest Blog at the tail end of last year I got a result within five hours this time, unless they were just replying to the original email?

    Anyway, thanks to Paul Egge and Richard Kroon the situation has now been resolved and they've removed Forest Blog from their web server.

  • traditionalist thinking (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drDugan (219551) * on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:44AM (#18058120)
    (http://yro.slashdot.org/~drDugan/)
    I've concluded that the traditionalist forces and thinkers (read: MPAA, "follow the rules without question simply because they are the rules and everyone follows them") are evolved in such a way as to be unable to adapt once the traditions have been set. Such people simply need to die off more quickly now that the world is changing more quickly thus significantly reducing overall conflict. Rather horrifying, but an unavoidable conclusion.

  • Apply MPAA logic (Score:3, Interesting)

    One respondent to TFA suggested using the MPAA's own logic against them in court. Another suggested suing them in small claims court which is apparently much easier.

    I submit that a software author is the same as a music CD author on an artistic level, perhaps more so since he does not have all the studio people to massage his work into something palatable.

    If this artist is left on his own, he could make some cash in small claims court, or at least his 150 pound license fee [hostforest.co.uk] if he is not the litigous sort perhaps.

    However I think this is also a very good opportunity for a big guns lawyers supplied perhaps by the EFF to find the paper where the MPAA writes down its killer legal strategies, and tear it up into tiny pieces, much as IBM is doing to SCO.

    Equate software to music. Equate running softare or viewing a webpage as a "performance" in the legal sense. Use MPAA rules. Since the license costs about $100, calculate based on a 300% markup over a $35 average MPAA cd price. The sum will be punitive damages for theft, plus the 300% of what the MPAA sues for a song, plus the price of a "performance" multiplied by the number of visits to any of the blog's pages, based on the evidence of the MPAA's server logs which is must produce in court. Although this sounds over the top, it is simply using the same non-common-sensical strategy the MPAA is using in court, and I think a judge and jury might just see justice in that, or at least a reason not to throw the case out.

    I think this ought to net a nice award for the author.

    When you think about it, SCO has lasted this long because it is like a pathogen that bends the organism that is the legal system to its intent, far beyond the realm of common sense: If they don't show the infringing code it is common sense that they ought not be able to argue beyond that. The MPAA also also exhibits pathogenic qualities; it sues its own customers for such outrageous sums that it is not only beyond common sense, you have to wonder if their worth is based more on legal games than actually what their members sell. Unless we take advantage of such amazing incidents as this one and use their own weapons against them, it will just continue. We now have a chance to stir up some talk about whether the MPAA is also over the top, and what to do about it.
    • Re:Apply MPAA logic (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:15AM (#18058260)
      (http://slashdot.org/)
      Another suggested suing them in small claims court which is apparently much easier.

      It might be, if it were even possible. You can't sue anyone for copyright infringement in small claims court. There is exclusive federal jurisdiction for copyright suits, which means you'd have to go to federal district court.

      Equate software to music. Equate running softare or viewing a webpage as a "performance" in the legal sense.

      First, why? What possible advantage would that get you? Second, that is not likely to work. Merely running software could only infringe the reproduction and perhaps derivative rights, but there's an exception under 117 which may well be applicable here. Viewing a webpage is pretty much reproduction only. Having a globally-accessible webpage could be considered a performance or display (depending on precisely what it consisted of) but the present caselaw leans toward distribution instead. But it could be a moot point anyway; this author didn't write the web pages at issue, he wrote the program used to write the web pages. Portions of the page are based on his work, but probably not enough, given the whittling-away effects that a decent lawyer could achieve by using things like merger and scenes a faire, to matter much.

      Since the license costs about $100, calculate based on a 300% markup over a $35 average MPAA cd price. The sum will be punitive damages for theft, plus the 300% of what the MPAA sues for a song, plus the price of a "performance" multiplied by the number of visits to any of the blog's pages, based on the evidence of the MPAA's server logs which is must produce in court. Although this sounds over the top, it is simply using the same non-common-sensical strategy the MPAA is using in court, and I think a judge and jury might just see justice in that, or at least a reason not to throw the case out.

      No, it sounds utterly moronic.

      There are two ways to compute damages for copyright infringement suits. First, you can get actual damages and profits. This means you get money in the amount you were actually damaged (in this case a paltry sum, since the software was available so cheaply) and also in the amount of net profit realized by the defendant that is attributable to the infringment (Gross profits, and profits that are attributable to other sources don't qualify). Since this is MPAA's blog, there are likely to be no awardable profits. Maybe $1 as a token sum.

      The other way is statutory damages, which range from $750 to $30,000 per work infringed, and can go down to $200 or up to $150,000, depending on certain factors. But you have to have registered your work within a certain time limit in order to be eligible for this, and although I don't know either way, I'd be willing to bet that this work wasn't registered within the time limits. That means these damages would not be available.

      RIAA does bother to register their works, however, which is why they routinely ask for the maximum amount of statutory damages ($150,000 per work infringed) which can add up if you infringe on a lot of works.

      The crap you're talking about is just that; made up crap without a basis in reality. You don't get to arbitrarily name figures and multiply them by whatever. And there isn't even any such thing as punative damages in copyright, so that's out the window too. RIAA has a solid basis for what they do, even if you don't like it and don't understand it. You don't.

      I think this ought to net a nice award for the author.

      The reality is that this is probably not worth suing over; the author would probably lose money or at best break even. The best strategy is probably to write a nasty letter and then ignore it. A victory wouldn't be hard to get, but wouldn't be worthwhile either.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Apply MPAA logic by TheoMurpse (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @11:20AM
  • Sue them (Score:1)

    by Jehosephat2k (562701) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:48AM (#18058148)
    He should sue them into oblivion. $100M
  • sue for damages (Score:1)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:50AM (#18058152)
    sue them for $1000 for each post claiming it's lost revenue. after all theres no telling how much work or job offers this guy has lost due to the lack of exposure from them removing his links. it's the exact same reasoning they use when sueing people for p2p traffic.

    taste that? it's irony

  • MPAA existential dilemma (Score:5, Insightful)

    P.S. Personally I think there is a major problem with the existence of an industry association like the MPAA and it being able to generate limitless lawsuits against customers on behalf of its members. I say Sony or Toshiba EMI ought to be required to do the suing, and see if they really have the stomach to do it and get caught out.

    As it is now, the MPAA appears to exist for the sake of making lawsuits; its profit is based on the success of the lawsuits, and it is presumably paid by its members the startup cash needed to hire all those lawyers, to generate enough income to eventually make the lawsuit engine self-sustaining. Sounds like Microsoft/Baystar and SCO doesn't it? Or a recent RAM patent company?

    When Sony embeds a rootkit they get clobbered with bad PR, and when EMI's copy protection sucks they get clobbered. Conversely, when EMI considers removing all copy protection they get even more, positive, PR. But when the MPAA sues soccer moms, the record companies seem to be wearing some kind of armor. All the bad PR sticks to their stalking horse, the MPAA. (Which like JASRAC in Japan has been the number one impediment to online distribution.)

    I say the MPAA is a menace to the public and serves no purpose other than to make frivolous lawsuits on the behalf of big record companies while insulating them from the media. It does not exist to protect authors at all, but rather seeks to cause enough mayhem to scare people from trying other distribution mechanisms, by grabbing "rights" that never previously existed for music before the digital age. This is remembered well by anyone who grew up with cassettes or 8 track tapes.

    I posted elsewhere in this thread that the MPAA's logic should be used against them to generate a huge award for the theft and performance of the Forest Blog software for a potentially huge number of page views. This model, in which a software author is granted the same rights as a music author, turns software downloading and web page views into something much more insidious than trite torrent sharing, in a legal sense. So I think now is a good time not only to make a legal case against the MPAA, but in fact to start aiming at them with big cannons like RICO and public opinion. Let the record labels do their own dirty work and pay for it individually when their customers get mad.
  • Update on his site (Score:5, Insightful)

    by creativeHavoc (1052138) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:06AM (#18058224)
    (http://kozo.apparitiondesigns.com/)
    http://www.patrickrobin.co.uk/default.asp?Display= 5 [patrickrobin.co.uk] The MPAA claim that it was in use only privatly and they had no advertising. Good to know. If they ever come knocking, I will tell them I watched the movies and home and never sold them to anyone.
  • Read the update as well (Score:4, Funny)

    by Rogerborg (306625) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:11AM (#18058248)
    (http://slashdot.org/)

    The material has been removed from our Web server. [patrickrobin.co.uk]
    • No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
    • The blog was never assigned a domain name.
    • The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
    • The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
    • The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
    • Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.

    ORLY? Note the lack of anything resembling an apology. Also, I must remember that defence when I get a P2P Tax demand from them: "Oh, sure, I copied your memebers' work, but only for testing purposes, and now that I've been caught, I can totally assure you that I intended to buy licensed versions."

  • Rejoice! (Score:1)

    by toejam316 (1000986) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:15AM (#18058262)
    We now have a plausable defense vrs organisations like the MPAA! "You! You did xxxx with our video, we demand compensation! etc.etc." "No. I used it privately!" "Foiled." Yay! Download like mad!
  • Story isn't up to date (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ace905 (163071) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:38AM (#18058340)
    (http://prettybored.com/)
    Just so everybody knows, this story does have a happy ending. The MPAA responded, finally, to his inquiries after a very long wait - by saying essentially that they were only using his software for 'testing' purposes and that the offending site was never made live, advertised on the internet etc.

    The Forest Blog Author retorted, in his update to this story, that he doubts they would have been so kind if he 'borrowed' some movies for 'testing' purposes but never distributed them to anybody. He makes a valid point.

    The entire trial over those dvd-codec software coders was based on them 'circumventing' a DVD's protection mechanism - it had nothing to do with them actually committing piracy, and were it not for the Digitial Millenium Copyright Act the MPAA would have had no case at all. Essentially they sued and won, establishing for the first time in history that you can purchase intellectual property but essentially not have ownership of the rights to even use it, however you see fit.

    Remember that all laws previous to the DMCA were to protect against piracy, (bootlegging, distribution, etc). But now the DMCA actually limits your freedom of use, even for personal use. And it's been proven. If they can do that, why can they abuse fair-use of software they essentially got just by agreeing to it's terms of use?

    I say he still send his case to the EFF and hope that they can use something in this as ammunition against the MPAA.

    ---
    DMCA Doesn't Protect Against This! [douginadress.com]
  • DMCA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dekkerdreyer (1007957) <dekkerdreyer.gmail@com> on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:36AM (#18058502)
    Simply send a DMCA take down notice to their ISP requesting that the site be taken down because it is infringing.
    • Re:DMCA by Shemmie (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @05:33AM
    • Re:DMCA by indaba (Score:3) Sunday February 18 2007, @06:08AM
      • Re:DMCA by cpt kangarooski (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:47AM
        • Re:DMCA by indaba (Score:2) Monday February 19 2007, @06:21AM
          • Re:DMCA by cpt kangarooski (Score:2) Monday February 19 2007, @09:40AM
      • Re:DMCA by dekkerdreyer (Score:1) Sunday February 18 2007, @12:52PM
    • Justice by BCW2 (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @08:22AM
      • Re:Justice by F34nor (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @11:58AM
  • *PAA (Score:1)

    by yoprst (944706) on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:51AM (#18058562)
    Mean Pirate Assotiation of America? Who's gonna come up with better M* word?
    • Re:*PAA by mean pun (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @05:26AM
    • Re:*PAA by Robber Baron (Score:2) Sunday February 18 2007, @10:27AM
  • Reduntant blurp. (Score:2)

    by Fizzl (209397) <fizzlNO@SPAMfizzl.net> on Sunday February 18 2007, @05:45AM (#18058696)
    (http://www.fizzl.net/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 24 2004, @07:26AM)

    and had completely violated his linkware license by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, not crediting him in any way. The MPAA blog was using the Forest Blog software, but had completely stripped off his name, and links back to his site.


    Stupid blurp. If it doesn't have 100 words, no need to forcefully add them by adding reduntant content.
  • Don't fool yourself (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QuietLagoon (813062) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:06AM (#18059062)
    Anyone who thinks the MPAA (and the RIAA) are really concerned about protection of the creative rights of the artists is fooling themselves.

    The MPAA and RIAA are concerned about nothing more than maximizing revenues for the organizations they represent. Period.

    The mention of the artists is only to make it appear as if the MPAA and RIAA have some sort of noble purpose. The MPAA and RIAA represent the media content industry executives, not the artists.

  • lol (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jschwetz (1046640) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:12AM (#18059080)
    *By 2007, IDC Research expects Internet users will access, download, and share information equivalent to the contents of the entire Library of Congress more than 64,000 times every day.
  • by Tomis (972713) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:32AM (#18059154)
    Back in ye olden times when they captured a known pirate, they'd hang 'em as an example for all. So why don't we just hunt down the members of the MPAA and make 'em an example for all to see eh? That'd stop their piracy for sure.

    I mean hey, if America can invade random countries for economic interest alone, heartlessly slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians, why can't the rest of us, y'know?

    You can only fight fire with fire.
  • MPAA Arguments (Score:2)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Sunday February 18 2007, @08:32AM (#18059156)
    (http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
    From their letter:

    No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
    The blog was never assigned a domain name.
    The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
    The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
    The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
    Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.

    Remember #2 and #6, use it against them the next time the come knocking on your door. They violated his agreement ( and the law in general ) and ADMITTED it, yet its ok for them to do so because 'we were going to pay later if we liked it'. wtf? ( the internal use only arguement is irrelevant )

    Well fine, that means i can sample YOUR wares for testing purposes and pay later if i like it.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by BobSutan (467781) on Sunday February 18 2007, @09:32AM (#18059360)
    I guess the appropriate thing to do would be to contact their ISP and have the site taken down until the layers work out your settlement payment.

    Fat chance in that ever happening.
  • by Zotos (1020751) on Sunday February 18 2007, @10:08AM (#18059582)
    If convicted of copyright infringement, I recommend those involved at the MPAA be sentenced to 5 years of watching the FBI warning on copyright infringement, non-stop.
  • In soviet russia, the MPAA pirates from you!!! ...oh wait...
  • by mliikset (869292) <mikelist@tds.net> on Sunday February 18 2007, @10:56AM (#18059904)
    ...??AA should reconcile this unauthorized use to their enforcement policies. Their unauthorized use is little different from what they are prosecuting and litigating from others. How to get people worked up enough to ask for something to be done, via legislative or judicial means?
  • by rdean400 (322321) on Sunday February 18 2007, @11:31AM (#18060154)
    The program code is copyrighted content, clearly being used in violation of the license. I think the author should get a lawyer and do a DMCA take-down to the MPAA's ISP.
  • by darrenkopp (981266) on Sunday February 18 2007, @11:54AM (#18060312)
    (http://blog.secudocs.com/)
    Time to go download a movie and strip off the start of the movie where it shows the companies that produced the movie.
  • Time for Justice (Score:1)

    by dasunst3r (947970) on Sunday February 18 2007, @12:30PM (#18060546)
    (http://www.cyeungrun.com/)
    I suggest that Patrick pushes an "update" that will detect whether the script is running on MPAA's servers or not; and when it is, it'll only show a picture (goatse or a parody of their "You can click but you can't hide") and talk about how hypocritical they are.
  • A small step (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bluepinstripe (637447) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:48PM (#18061452)
    Not that there should be any doubt, but we can all take a small (which may become large) step to let the MPAA know how we feel by sending an e-mail to the MPAA to report the their theft of intellectual property. The e-mail address is hotline@mpaa.org. You can also find the e-mail address on their fim theft page [fightfilmtheft.org]. The contents of my e-mail are as follows:

    To Whom It May Concern:

    This e-mail is not to report the theft of a movie, but the theft of another type of intellectual property: software. The perpetrator is your organization, the MPAA.

    By using the Forest Blog bloggin engine, either directly or as the results of the actions of another party, you have violated the linkware license to the Forest Blog blogging engine by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, failing to credit the original author in any way.

    Until such time as the MPAA can develop and implement a plan that demonstrates an understanding of the importance of intellectual property rights for all types of intellectual property, your efforts to guard against the theft of your intellectual property in light of your theft of intellectual property will be viewed as the farce it is.

    Sincerely,
    [your name here]

  • by grolschie (610666) on Sunday February 18 2007, @03:04PM (#18061530)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday April 22 2003, @12:52AM)
    Dear MPAA,

    I have now deleted downloaded movies from my harddrive. They were proof of concept that bittorrent and divx works on my computer. Since deleting the movies, I now look forward to you dropping your lawsuit against me.

    Best regards,
    Joe Sixpack
  • DMCA should have been the response (Score:3, Insightful)

    by real gumby (11516) on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:22PM (#18062052)
    I don't agree with the folks who say he should have sued. He's just a nice guy.

    He should have filed a DMCA "Takedown" notice [wikipedia.org] and then sued.

    Sauce for the gander and all that....
  • site down (Score:1)

    by PharmerWithTractor (1065100) on Sunday February 18 2007, @06:44PM (#18062872)
    (http://www.drive-bypharming.com/)
    This is what I am getting when I go to his site. Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][DBNETLIB]SQL Server does not exist or access denied. /Includes/inc-dataconnection.asp, line 22
  • Report It! (Score:1)

    by jeppster (1031326) on Monday February 19 2007, @09:41AM (#18067180)
    (http://www.jeppys.com/)
    Be sure to report this piracy! http://www.mpaa.org/ReportPiracy.asp [mpaa.org]
  • by woboyle (1044168) on Monday February 19 2007, @12:21PM (#18068758)
    I hope the developer of the violated product issues a take-down notice to MPAA's ISP. Turnabout is "fairplay", IMO.
  • by timmarhy (659436) on Sunday February 18 2007, @02:54AM (#18058182)
    actually dipshit, it is free, but they can't even stick to using someone elses work for free and abiding by the copyright holders license, which states they must leave logo's and links back to his website intack.

    so it would appear the mpaa doesn't think their own rules don't apply to them.

    [ Parent ]
  • by semiotec (948062) on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:40AM (#18058516)
    what hole have you been hiding in? RIAA has been claiming damages to the tunes of %750 PER SONG, I have no idea how much MPAA has been claiming. The point is both about the amount and not about the amount. It's about that the MAFIAA have been claiming that piracy has put such a dent in their God-given right to make tonnes of money, that they should be asking for such disproportionate amount of damage to cover their losses. And YET, when THEY are the ones "stealing" other people's work, all of a sudden, it's not such a big matter? Do you think the MAFIAA would let people get away if they just say that they never put links to the songs they downloaded, they never publicised it and it was purely for personal use?
    [ Parent ]
  • by hughk (248126) on Sunday February 18 2007, @04:52AM (#18058564)
    (Last Journal: Sunday September 16, @04:44AM)
    And a DVD costs what? 12 bucks or so.
    [ Parent ]
  • by freedom_india (780002) on Sunday February 18 2007, @05:07AM (#18058606)
    (Last Journal: Monday January 23 2006, @02:12AM)
    You are wrong. Here's why and also how a Good Lawyer can sue and win atleast 1.2 million dollars from MPAA.

    First, the fact that MPAA violated his license. According to the DMCA under section 1204 penalties range up to a $500000 fine...

    Next, each visitor to MPAA pages could have been a POTENTIAl licensee of the software. This POTENTIAL was lost by the author since no link backs were provided. Assuming a good lawyer subpoenas' MPAA website administrator and gets a total of number of visitors to the page(s) from date of violation till date of verdict, takes a very conservative estimate that atleast 50% of the people visited could have licensed the software, (same calculations that MPAA uses to send take-down notices and suits for damages), the author can easily claim atleast $1.2 million.

    Now, once the case goes to court, by that time it has been proven MPAA had violated his copyright. The judge would have no qualms declaring MPAA guility under DMCA. The second play is for more damages outside the $5000000 fine.

    If only 1,000 visitors visited the site since the day of violation the fine would stand reduced, however i bet it is more.

    A more serious lawyer can pursue it even further and argue that since the MPAA in its role as a guardian of digital copyrights has ITSELF violated the DMCA (thus a case of fence eating the flock), it must be criminally tried and asked to pay a more amount as fine to the poor author.

    One sympathetic judge is enough to screw MPAA in this case.
    I would say, first get a GOOD lawyer.

     
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:The Big Picture (Score:2)

    by Headcase88 (828620) on Monday February 19 2007, @10:50AM (#18067682)
    (Last Journal: Friday January 13 2006, @02:08PM)
    This is totally true, as demonstrated but this excerpt of a typical court case that didn't use the /. post as evidence method.

    MPAA: Is it true you downloaded these movies?
    Defendant: Yes, but I don't feel that it's morally wrong.
    Crowd: *gasps*
    MPAA: Fuck. Well I guess we don't have anything on you, you're free to go.
    Defendant: Really? I didn't expect that to make a difference legally
    Judge: There's a clear precedent in Vice City vs. Tommy Vercetti. He didn't feel his rampant killings were morally wrong, so we let him back on the streets with a clean record... several dozen times.
    [ Parent ]
  • 12 replies beneath your current threshold.