Google "Loses" Gmail in Europe

Hippie Hippie Shake writes to mention that Google has just lost the right to use the name 'Gmail' in Europe, according to the EU. "Daniel Giersch, a German-born 32-year old entrepreneur, has just announced that his company received a positive ruling last week from the Harmonization Office supporting his claim that "Gmail" and his own "G-mail" are confusingly similar. G-mail is a German service that provides a "gmail.de" email address, but also allows for a sort of "hybrid mail" system in which documents can be sent electronically, printed out by the company, and delivered in paper format to local addresses." It looks like "Google Mail" from here on out, at least in the Old Country."

Google farts!

and slashdot smells it! news at 11!

Re:Google farts!

Of course, we're still able to use our @gmail.com addresses. All this means is that users in the EU who didn't sign up before 2005 (and are therefore much less likely to care) missed the boat. Nobody really loses. European techies will continue to call it GMail.

All in all, a non-issue.

Re:

Quit stealing my thunder [slashdot.org] (fart pun well intended!

it's not that big of a deal... is it?

Daniel Giersch, a German-born 32-year old entrepreneur, has just announced that his company received a positive ruling last week from the Harmonization Office supporting his claim that "Gmail" and his own "G-mail" are confusingly similar.

That's not something a few hundred million dollars can't fix.

Re:it's not that big of a deal... is it?

That's not something a few hundred million dollars can't fix.

You mean "That's not something a few hundred million dollars in stock can't fix."

Wrong Country, Wrong Law

Perhaps you should consider the fact that Europe and the US have different laws and systems of law? US Common Law is very different from European "Roman" civil law. Some issues are covered by international conventions and agreements. But this is an issue for german domestic law. Especially considering the fact that gmail.de existed prior to any Google application for a German trademark.

Well?

Congratulations Daniel. Looks like in EU at least the David can defeat Goliath.

Re:

It's kind of funny. If this had been a big corporation taking the name away from a little guy [wikipedia.org] everyone would be up in arms about how unjust this practice is.

Re:

Only if the little guy registered his domain first.

Unfortunately, in this case, denic.de isn't giving enough info in their whois lookups to tell when gmail.de was registered.

So it's hard to know who to root for.

Re:

That's not funny; it's sad. Intellectual property rights are demonized by those who don't understand them. While there are certainly intelligent arguments to be made about the scope of trademark, patent, copyright, trade secret, and antitrust law, you won't find it here.

Re:

Congratulations Daniel. Looks like in EU at least the David can defeat Goliath.

 

In the U.S., it takes The Donald to defeat the Rosi...errr Goliath. ;)

Translation -

"Daniel Giersch, a German-born 32-year old entrepreneur, has just announced that his company received a positive ruling last week from the Harmonization Office supporting his claim that "Gmail" and his own "G-mail" are confusingly similar."

Translation -

"Daniel Giersch, a German-born 32-year old entrepreneur, has just announced"

That he is now G-Uber Rich!

Lost rights to a beta product name...

I think this is the first time Ive ever heard of where a company has succesfully been challenged and lost the right to a name while a product was still in "beta". Its already Google Mail in the UK, no? I wonder if this large a swath of the world will cause google to just rebrand the whole thing google mail for everyone, just for continuity and branding's sake. As much as I like the name Gmail and would be sad to have to say something longer all the time, it does look to my first cursory glance like this was a legit claim as opposed to cybersquatting, so perhaps its the right thing.

Re:Lost rights to a beta product name...

As much as I like the name Gmail and would be sad to have to say something longer all the time

Um.... yeah. This definitely makes the list of things that make me sad.

Good for him!

...because he legitimately had use of the G-mail term in advance. But if he's smart, he'll either capitalize on the name recognition and make a really nice mail portal system, or sell to Google. Providing a somehow "inferior" product under that name might not work out so well in the long run.

This is news?

I heard about this quite a while ago. A quick google search reveals: Gmail Trademark in Dispute [internetnews.com] (if you don't want to click it, it's an article on the subject dated August 12, 2004). This may be another instance of someone claiming rights to it, but it certainly isn't the first place Google has lost the GMail trademark.

well, how nice

"Daniel Giersch, a German-born 32-year old entrepreneur, has just announced that his company received a positive ruling last week from the Harmonization Office supporting his claim that "Gmail" and his own "G-mail" are confusingly similar.

So when his rather stupid venture tanks (several people have tried his kind of service before), he can at least get some money for the domain name.

they should brand one for the Euro market then

Instead of 'g' for Google, they could use 'e' for Europe - and call it something like E-mail or somesuch.

Some clarifications

1) There are ongoing disputes still in court. This is not the end of the story

2) according to discussions on heise.de this guy has probably registered his trademark between the start of gmail.com and the time google wanted to register gmail.de, they DO own g-mail.de

3) the trademark actually is "G-Mail ... und die Post geht richtig ab!" whole slogan WITH hyphen.

4) German trademark law DOES provide ways to see if registering was in "bad faith", and that is not dealt with in the EU, but Germany. That could turn the whole story.

5) He DOES NOT provide service. What he announced is "ready next month" for like all the years since he registered the domain. Probably vaporware.

6) Registering a trademark s.o. else is using in another country and designing vaporware is what 4) is about: straight way to lose the tm.

Some people also told he sort of knew that gmail in the internet was "taken", but discussions did not provide promised sources and no one at heise.de jumped in.

All in all looks like david-goliath, but also symicron-explorer so stay tuned. But keep in mind actual deals of Mr. Giersch are tell tale by himself and not at all confirmed. He might just be some greedy jerk with a rip off scam in trademark law.

Trademark is longer and situation more complex

Actually, Giersch's trademarked string in full length is "G-Mail ...und die Post geht richtig ab".

This is a pretty lame phrase translating approximately to "G-Mail ...it really kicks ass", playing on the meaning of the phrase "die Post geht ab" = "it kicks ass" and "Post" = "(snail) mail".

Due to the fact that his trademark in principle only covers the full length of the phrase, his standing in courts is not as strong as he pretends, and his registering was very close to google's announcement of their gmail service. His trademark is still challenged in court.

Also, Giersch's company is in "we'll launch very soon, honest!" state for years now, the only progress being in regularly changing website designs. This is not as clear a "innocent David" vs. "corporate Goliath" situation as people outside of Germany tend to see. To me, this guy more looks like our very own tiny SCO.

Re:$250K?

Article says he was offered $250K [wonder if that's cash?]... damn I'd sold. Used the money to tour the world, then apply for a job at Google.de

You'd be throwing away a bunch of money. A few years ago, a small mom-n-pop cable tv company out in New Mexico owned the roadrunner.com domain. My employer, a certain other, much larger cable modem company was understandably interested in that domain and they offered the owner a similar 250K low-ball figure.

The owner had an idea of what it would be worth to them so she declined. Then the larger company tried the bully approach, taking her to court and citing trademark infringement, etc. She knew she would probably win since it's the state bird of NM and had been part of the name of her company all along. She was right and she won the case. The larger company knew they were going to have to cough up the dough if they wanted that domain and they did. 8 figures worth.

Re:

doubt it. Something tells me google isn't the company to reach out twice.

I mean yeah, it's good that the guy has character and defends his creation [G-mail that is]. But I dunno, if google wanted to give me 250K for libtom.org I'd be finding a pen.

Tom

Re:

Saying 'very evil' is a bit of a strech.

Maybe when you say "bad" in German it literally translates to "very evil!!!!" Ever see a German say "I love you" to another German? I'm not sure but it always looks like the couple wants to tear each others throats out when they say it.

Re:

The @googlemail addresses are too long and clumsy. I made use of a US based proxy when I signed up for my account to ensure I'd get the more succinct gmail version. Bloody Germans.


Yeah damn the Kraut for having the name first, as well as a legitimate trademark and a business in full operation. Don't blame Google for failing to do their homework, or for assuming "the little guy" would let himself be bought out for a relatively trivial sum ($250,000; yes it's a large number but the "gmail" name is worth man

Re:How will this affect gmail.com?

> How does this affect gmail.com, registered in the US?

Not at all. Nobody claimed otherwise.

> The company is based in the US;

But they operate in the EU as well and have quite some offices, so Google as a cooperation has to adhere to local laws for business they do in the EU. The physical location of the server does not matter.

> they're not marketing gmail.de, it's gmail.com

They are marketing a "GMail" service (no TLD). Google wants to use "GMail" as a name (the domain is just a bonus, the dispute is about the trademark "GMail"), the current owner claims to have older trademark rights to the name in Germany.

> How can the EU prevent its citizens using gmail.com,

They don't prevent you at all. You can go to the US site and register and use this access.

> and require that they use g-mail.de (or whatever) instead?

Currently, Google may not use the name "GMail" for its service in Germany (= advertising and offering a service to the people in Germany under the name "GMail"), as this would infringe an older trademark hold by some other guy. A trademark must not be 100% identical (gmail vs g-mail), if it concerns the same field of business and bears a high probability of being confused (and some other additional conditions). This is the current situation in this legal dispute.