Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

MPAA Kills California Anti-Pretexting Bill

Posted by Zonk on Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:22 AM
from the revealed-to-be-playing-dirty-pool dept.
IAmTheDave writes "A California anti-pretexting bill that got unanimous support in the state senate with a vote of 30-0 was struck down after heavy last-minute lobbying by the MPAA. The bill aimed to make deceptive 'pretexting' (lying) to gain personal information on another person illegal. The MPAA told legislators 'We need to pose as someone other than who we are to stop illegal downloading,' and thus killed the bill when it came up for a final vote. California passed a much narrower bill that 'bans the use of deceit to obtain telephone calling records, and nothing else.' In a final 'think of the children' bid, the Califonia Association of Licensed Investigators also opposed the bill, saying it needed to be able to use pretexting to help find missing children, among other things."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • History of Violence (Score:5, Informative)

    by udderly (890305) * on Friday December 01 2006, @11:24AM (#17065658)

    To paraphrase Ed Harris in the movie, History of Violence, "...how come the MPAA is so good at killing bills?"

    The answer is that succesful politicians are not developed, they're bought.

    • by ph1ll (587130) <ph1ll1phenry&yahoo,com> on Friday December 01 2006, @11:41AM (#17065976)
      I'm not an American nor do I pretend to understand American politics but how can a vote swing from 30-0 to the other way?

      And people say the European Commission is corrupt...

      • by JerkBoB (7130) on Friday December 01 2006, @12:26PM (#17066852)
        I'm not an American nor do I pretend to understand American politics but how can a vote swing from 30-0 to the other way?

        In the US system of government, at both federal and state levels, legislation must pass through both houses of congress (legislative branch) and then be signed into law by the president/governor (executive branch). There are variations on the path that aren't worth getting into for this discussion.

        So, the bill passed the CA state Senate, but was killed in the House of Representatives. Two completely different sets of people. The intent of having two legislative bodies is to get different perspectives on an issue. Representatives are (re-)elected every two years, and therefore tend to take a short-term perspective on issues, looking at what's going to look best to their constituents who will be voting on their re-election (or contributing campaign dollars, as the case may be). Senators are supposedly able to take a bigger-picture view because they have a longer term (six years), and aren't scrambling to please constituents as much as Representatives.

        This is the theory. In practice, I don't know how well it works. I think the only thing that's really going to make a major difference is some serious campaign finance reform, at both the State and Federal levels. And I have little hope for that happening because it's like asking pigs to vote on whether they'll voluntarily get less slop in their troughs. Yeah, right.
    • by Mr. Underbridge (666784) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:42AM (#17065988)

      To paraphrase Ed Harris in the movie, History of Violence, "...how come the MPAA is so good at killing bills?" The answer is that succesful politicians are not developed, they're bought.

      True. Although do bear in mind this is California, home of the movie industry. I'd be interested in seeing if they were quite as successful in getting a similar bill nuked in, say, Massachussets.

        • by Mr. Underbridge (666784) on Friday December 01 2006, @12:12PM (#17066578)

          Speaking of California and the movie industry, does anyone know if we're hearing anything from any of these actors/actresses who speak out so often about social injustice? What's the Governator's opinion on this? I haven't seen anything. I wonder if maybe it's too close to their own pocketbook (maybe it's true about the love of money...) or maybe it's just peer pressure from within their social circles?

          Those idiot actors speak out on social injustice when it gives them photo ops with starving children. Yeah, I'm talking to you, Angelina Jolie.

    • by bunions (970377) on Friday December 01 2006, @12:43PM (#17067188)
      > The answer is that succesful politicians are not developed, they're bought.

      There was an interesting piece on PBS some years back where they interviewed 4 former California governors at once: Davis, Wilson, Jerry Brown and ... uh ... someone whose name escapes me at the moment.

      Anyway, there was an interesting discussion about what they'd do to 'fix' California if they could, and one of them was to -increase- the amount of time legislators were elected for. They said that the situation now was that the legislators were there for such a brief amount of time between elections that they basically had no time to learn how to do their jobs. When faced with this dilemma, these freshman legislators turn to the only people there with experience at the job at hand - the lobbyists, who have typically been around Sacramento for many years and know how to get things done. As the governors explained it, this is the mechanism by which lobbyists essentially buy laws.

      Another thing they thought would be a good idea: pushing the legislature back to part-time, so they had less time to pass useless laws. Say what you will about Arnold, he's like the veto king. He vetoed more laws in his first month than previous governors did their entire term.
      • by bwt (68845) on Friday December 01 2006, @12:57PM (#17067478) Homepage
        I wonder how many marriages began with a guy telling lies in a bar to get a girl's phone number only to realize later that he actually likes her.
          • by krell (896769) on Friday December 01 2006, @01:30PM (#17068238) Journal
            "Actually, no, since it's only illegal to lie to law enforcement or in court"

            It is legal to lie in court if you are not specifically under oath. Otherwise, a lot of lying is done in the courtroom: from the typical business practices of attorneys to the large percentage of the accused who did the crime (and know they did it) but lie and plead "not guilty" anyway.

            A courtroom without lies would be very very different.
  • by jonnythan (79727) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:25AM (#17065666) Homepage
    I never realized the MPAA was a law enforcement organization.

    I wonder what else they need in order to enforce laws. Prisons? Armed agents? The power to arrest and seize property?
  • by mikelieman (35628) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:25AM (#17065670) Homepage
    It's the only way to make sure the Legislators even PRETEND TO TRY to give a shit about us.

    We're fucked.

          • by Shakrai (717556) on Friday December 01 2006, @12:04PM (#17066416)

            The only problem with that is that it will never happen for the same reasons that this bill was killed: it requires politicians to do what is in the best interests of the citizens, instead of what is in the best interests of their reelection campaign (read getting money).

            The only problem? His amendment is so broadly worded that it would probably outlaw credit histories as well. Do you lend money to people? Is this something you'd condone?

            Likewise, there were probably very compelling reasons not to pass this bill but we won't hear about them because of the four letter word known as the MPAA. Because they got involved I predict the chances of this being a fruitful discussion on /. at 100 to 1 against.

        • by RareButSeriousSideEf (968810) on Friday December 01 2006, @01:13PM (#17067886) Homepage Journal
          Damn, I had to blow off Mod points to respond to this, but...

          "Too bad they take it to the other extreme. Zero regulation of businesses, the complete abandonment of any sort of social safety net and privatising everything are just a few of the disagreements that I have with the Libertarian Party."

          The nature of government past and present tends toward eternal scope creep. If Libertarians were to sweep all 3 branches of the US government tomorrow and hold power for a decade, we would still not live in a system that actually *had* zero regulation of businesses, complete abandonment of any sort of social safety net, or total privatization of all that is currently in the civic sphere.

          Despite my heavy Libertarian sympathies, I do believe that some things *belong* in the public sector. The Libertarian philosophy may appear extreme to you, and it may in fact be extreme. However, Democrats and Republicans alike have lost sight of any sort of sane boundaries on what belongs in the public sector. I can't imagine a pure Libertarian philosophy ever really being actualized, but I think an extreme dose of it would bring sobriety and balance to bear against government's inexorable tendency to intrude further and further into what should be the private sphere.

          Think about it - you surely can see extremity of some sort in the Democrat and Republican parties alike, no? But does this country look entirely like an incarnation of the desires of either one of them? No; it's a hodge-podge of policies -- sometimes contradictory -- hailing from all over the political spectrum. So in the end, infusing the system with a bunch of anti-scope-creep politicians would merely introduce some friction to retard the expansion. Like any other party, if they took it too far, populism would push the pendulum of power away from them and things would drift back in the other direction.

  • by yagu (721525) * <yayagu@gmEEEail.com minus threevowels> on Friday December 01 2006, @11:25AM (#17065674) Journal

    Seems odd when a committee (in this case, an entire senate) deems a law pragmatic enough it goes up for vote with a unanimous (30-0) sendoff and subsequently because of special interest (MPAA allegedly) the final vote skews not only away from unanimous but actually flips the sentiment (bill loses 27-33).

    Consider the gist of the bill (from the article):

    The bill, SB1666, was written by state Sen. Debra Bowen, and would have barred investigators from making "false, fictitious or fraudulent" statements or representations to obtain private information about an individual, including telephone calling records, Social Security numbers and financial information. Victims would have had the right to sue for damages.

    This means the MPAA and others argued for the right to make "false, fictitious or fraudulent" statements...! Amazing!

    There are legitimate ways for the entertainment industry to obtain data when prosecuting alleged piracy activity. This isn't one of them. So, the practice (pretexting) remains legal and the MPAA prevails in yet another seamy side of big business buying milquetoast government.

    I've lost the ability to record FM on my Creative Zen with my last firmware update... ostensibly, though I can't confirm it because of industry pressure on Creative -- it was one of the features I bought it for.

    The threat continues to loom for providers of excellent technology like TiVo to rein in their features, also ostensibly under pressure.

    The better the technology gets, the less they want us to use it.

    • by PFI_Optix (936301) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:44AM (#17066024) Journal
      I've lost the ability to record FM on my Creative Zen with my last firmware update... ostensibly, though I can't confirm it because of industry pressure on Creative -- it was one of the features I bought it for.

      This is one of the best examples yet of why one should not upgrade firmware on a device unless there is an immediate need for an update.

      I should think that removing a feature from a purchased item after the fact is grounds for a lawsuit, especially if the packaging and manual list it as a feature. I'd suggest a class action suit demanding the functionality be restored or a refund of your money. Hey, everyone else is suing someone, let's get in on the action!
  • by FatSean (18753) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:26AM (#17065688) Homepage Journal
    But now companies and PIs can too? Can the average guy 'pretext' as well, or will he get punished? I can't really tell from the article.

    Makes me want to break more laws....let's see...what can I do that has a low chance of getting caught...

      • by Vengeance (46019) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:40AM (#17065954)
        You've hit upon something which I've long believed is important:

        Legislators rarely suffer from the effects of their actions, while the rest of us are slowly whittled down.

        We've got a huge percentage of our population in the prison system, in a 'free country' where putting something into your body is considered a criminal act.

        This all falls under the theory that you cannot rule a free man, but if you make SOME aspect of every free man's life technically illegal, you can keep them in line.
  • by bhmit1 (2270) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:32AM (#17065794) Homepage
    If you need to stop something illegal, it shouldn't be necessary to lie and impersonate someone to prevent the activity. Why is it necessary to impersonate another to "think of the children" or to stop illegal downloads? If you have proof of a wrong doing, you take it to a judge, get a warrant, and put an end to it. If you don't have proof, then lets end all the witch hunts.
  • But, but, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SengirV (203400) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:42AM (#17065980)
    Wouldnt' any bill allow for exceptions like the use of pretexting for criminal investigations? Seems like a pretty flimsy excuse for downgrading the bill.

    So it all just comes down to who has the biggest pockets.

    Current breakdown of the California State Senate - 25 DNCers, 15 GOPers. But I thought only GOPers who bow to big business?

    Wake up people, no party is free of Big Business.
    • Re:my thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MrTester (860336) on Friday December 01 2006, @11:42AM (#17065978)
      Oh really? So its OK if I call your phone company pretending to be you and get a copy of your phone records?
      Its OK if I call your Satelite/cable provider and get a list of all of the services you signed up for?
      Its OK if I call you bank and get a list of all of your acounts and their balances?

      The problem is not that these people are pretending to be someone they are not, the problem is that they are pretending to be some one in particular and useing that to gain information they could not otherwise gain.

      What the MPAA has just done is say "There is information out there that we cant gain through normal legal channels, so we want to be allowed to gather the information through semi/non-legal channels" and the governemnt said "Oh, OK".