China Jails Porn Site Leader For Life 324
eldavojohn writes "The AP has picked up the story of a man convicted of serving internet porn in China. They report that he has been jailed for life. Eight accomplices were given sentences ranging from a few months to almost a decade. Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence." From the article: "Xinhua reported that police said it was difficult to know the exact amount of profits the Web site earned. Police found about 200,000 yuan ($25,000) in the bank accounts of the nine. When the site was closed in October last year, it contained more than 9 million pornographic images and articles, the police said."
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
Earlier Reports of Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
From that website (dated December of 2005): I'm certainly not intimately familiar with these cases but I do hope that they are jailing the correct people and that these people deserve it. A life sentence is nothing to sneeze at, especially in China.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hypocrisy: Porn "Bad"; Prostitution "Good" (Score:4, Insightful)
Yet, the government gives an implicit "okay" to prostitution. About 33% of Chinese men returning from the mainland to Hong Kong have purchased the services of a prostitute [nih.gov].
Why is pornography worse than prostitution? Pornography is about fantasy. Prostitution is about reality, and in China, prostitutes are sometimes children.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
About 10 years ago, I lived in the PRC for a couple of months doing database work. I remember going one of those big Samusung stores--the kind that are like computer bazaars with tons of vendors--and there were cops who stood outside and searched everyone's bags as they left to make sure that they didn't have any porn.
Later on, I got pickpocketed at a bus stop. When I went to the police station to report the crime, there were a bunch of cops in a lounge t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hypocrisy: (Formatted this time) (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not hypocrisy in Chinese culture. It's because there have always been two major forces in Chinese governments. First is very strong moral conservatism. Because this is part of Confucianism the people involved are usually very upstanding and are not corrupt and generally quite idealistic though very very conservative. Then there is massive corruption because of the autonomy usually given to provincial and then local rulers. China's a big place with lots of people and the bureaucracy has always been too small to micromanage everything. Also because of its persecution by the First Emperor who was a Legalist Confucianism doesn't like legalism that much. The idea is to install good moral principles in the bureaucrats rather than have them follow strict laws. So local governors usually have a great deal of power. Also there is a saying in many parts of China "The world is big and Beijing is a long way away."
On the flip side, the moral conservatives are *very* conservative and controlling micromanaging bastards(see pre-Deng Xiao Ping Communist Party for an example). The very things that allow corruption to flourish are *also* the things that allow people freedoms from central control. There's also the very important role that families and local area affiliations and clans (well not so much now) have to play.
So in this situation you have a bunch of people in the central government who are not corrupt, idealistic and morally conservative trying to harshly enforce their brand of moral puritany. On the other hand you have the often much more free-wheeling provincial governors who don't care about what central government says. All of Chinese history has been a struggle to get a balance between the two extremes so that the micromanaging puritans can't control every aspect of people's lives and that corruption due to people not listening to central government doesn't get completely out of control. Both sides know this and there is a certain armed truce with the provinces and local areas listening to some things that the central government says (especially if sufficient force is applied) or at least pretending to and the central government tries to concentrate on the battles it can fight.
Also the prostitution is probably occuring in the Southern provinces, particularly Guangdong and those have always been especially independent of Beijing, so much so that Beijing gets pissed off. Strangely enough the Southern Provinces can also be some of the most fiercely loyal to China, more specifically Han Chinese. I just laugh when people expected that the fact that Guangdong is the most rapidly developing area of China is going to lead to actions to topple the Communists. Now, if the Communists were non-Han Chinese then well maybe yeah.
Re:Hypocrisy: Porn "Bad"; Prostitution "Good" (Score:5, Insightful)
You see, pornography is very prevalent in China; heck it is as prevalent as pirated movies and software in China (keep in mind the estimates that >90% of software is pirated), meaning that there are parts of China where you can literally see this stuff in plain view just be strolling down the street (there is a positive correlation between prevalence and distance from Beijing, so you probably won't see this in Beijing). China does piracy crackdowns every now and then to show people (mostly the congresscritters in Washington) that they do care and will take a tough stance on piracy. Piracy is illegal in China. And you face extremely severe consequences if you are prosecuted. And that, my friend, is the big "if", since it is not uncommon to see cops visiting one of the many small stores selling pirated goods to buy stuff (at a discount, of course) for their own consumption. As I said, porn is quite prevalent. A lot of the places selling pirated movies also sell pirated porn. And you can sometimes even see explicit covers of such products as you are walking down the street because the vendors will sometimes set them up so that they are street-facing.
Sure, they'll throw a few guys in jail now and then, but this is just a show to tell people that the government is Mr. Tough Guy and that violating the laws is Bad For Your Health. But in practice, nobody--including most of the people in government--gives a damn.
The central government is also not that dumb. They know that if they strip people of their sources of pleasure, they will be in trouble (they already have more than enough boiling discontent that they are trying to keep a lid over), so I'm not surprised if they are purposefully limiting their action to a few show cases to just nominally assert their authority while unofficially condoning it. Of course, that probably isn't any consolation for the bloke in jail.
Re: (Score:2)
In the USA and a lot of other places this happens too and it is also seen as criminal behaviour. In a suprising number of places around the world some prostitutes are also literal slaves - unpaid and imprisioned - but in nearly every one of these places that is also criminal behavior. If you are going to criticise the Chinese government there are a lot of real things they endorse you could bring up instead.
We should never criticise the USA as whole for som
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
All the parent claimed was that they're sometimes children, something you can hardly claim is untrue.
The point remains that prostitution is more of an underground market with the problems that imply.
I personally think that if any culture should try stop any of those two, it should be prostitution.
1st world countries have a low birth rate (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know the dynamics, but probably it has to do with the cost of bring up kids as a middle/upper class family (it's more expensive to pay for college/toys/etcetera than what a low income family usually gives their kids), the fact that women are more likely to work a job, and other such factors.
So China really just has to become a 1st world country to reliably lower the birthrate. The other factors I have seen don't seem to count for much.
China has a low birth rate (Score:2)
BTW: The second world countries (the old "Eastern Bloc") has in general even lower birth rates that the first world countries, so imitating Western lifestyle is not the only option.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Here in the UK, the Government plans to criminalise possession of certain types of images it has labelled "extreme" (covered on Slashdot here [slashdot.org]) - even though the images feature consenting actors or are faked/simulated; this is about censoring "obscene" images because they are inherently seen as harmful to those who view them (more information at http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/ [backlash-uk.org.uk] ).
My understanding is that t
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Earlier Reports of Cases (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Earlier Reports of Cases (Score:5, Interesting)
Many a time, long lasting civilizations actively support pornography - they tend to understand that it is a basic need for humans, and is not a taboo.
Erotic art was there in many [wikipedia.org] temples [khajuraho.org.uk] and caves [wikipedia.org] in India, Japan [wikipedia.org] and other civilizations.
But with the advent of Christianity with its much more constricted views of right and wrong, other civilizations changed.
Ironic that what west sees as backwardness in other cultures is actually introduced by west itself.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
a) Christian countries aren't locking porn sellers up for life.
b) China isn't Christian.
c) Arab/Islamic nations, another 1.5 billion people, are also not porn friendly.
But, of course, it's all Jeebus's fault.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ignorant, biased tripe (Score:4, Insightful)
But with the advent of Christianity with its much more constricted views of right and wrong, other civilizations changed.
Ironic that what west sees as backwardness in other cultures is actually introduced by west itself.
This is the kind of tripe that a gross ignorance of foreign history and prehistory and of comparitive religions will get you.
First of all, the presence of erotic art does not denote a broad cultural acceptance of erotica. Second, cultures go on swings of greater and lesser acceptance of erotica -- even Western civilization went from the period of the Inquisition to the period of Renaissance to the period of Puritanism. Japanese culture, which you cited in particular, had numerous shifts in culture to accept and reject sexuality in various forms without the influence of Christianity playing a major role (being actively driven underground for centuries by the Shogunate after a brief introduction in the 16th century).
Furthermore, you apparently have no understanding of the greater influence of Confucian mores (originated in the 5th century BC) on Eastern views of sexuality. Confucianists widely viewed the act of sex itself as meant only to be used for procreation and had very similar views to the West on the "dirtiness" of sex, on the necessity of sex being only between a man and a wife, on the subservience of women to men, on the persecution of homosexuality, etc. two millenia before China had contact with the West. While Taoism was far more accepting of sex, it is Confucian mores that have been the dominant. These mores, developed independently of the West, also happen to be a large part of why the Chinese are so willing to accept authoritarian systems -- Confucianism is inherently a hierarchical system -- and have been a driving force behind many of Communist China's morality laws.
Also, if you think that India is a hotbed for free-love just because it was the home of the Kama Sutra, tantric sex traditions, and erotic temple art, you have a LOT to learn about the many forms of Hinduism and how dominant their various influences have been as well as the way that most polythestic cultures respected the idea of "a time and a place" for sex rites while leaving marriage as the dominant institution.
Next, I'd just like to note that while it was Jesus that said that if your eye leads you to sin, you should pluck it out, it was the millenia old tradition of Judaism that Christianity inherited most of its sexual mores from. All monotheistic religions that we have good records of the beliefs of have had strong prohibitions against sexual immorality, and you'd probably be surprised to find out how many still existing polythestic and animistic religions have VERY strong prohibitions against pre-marital and extra-marital sex in spite of existence of fertility rites and primitive porn.
All human cultures have, with time, developed some sort of bias towards sex primarily between husbands and wives. All human cultures have had porn, prostitution, and adultery in spite of their society saying it's wrong in the general case. Very, very few cultures have accepted polyamory outside of ritualized days and events, and yet people have left evidence that they indulged anyway. It's like there's competing biological needs involved or something...
Spammers, too? (Score:2)
I thought they didn't censor? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
that's pretty unreasonable, but it isn't censoring, it's law enforcement.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Double-edged sword of justice... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Double-edged sword of justice... (Score:5, Funny)
I think there's a paper towel or two involved as well.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, that's it. No one would EVER visit a pornographic website if those crafty spammers didn't trick them into it.
Tell that lie to your "significant other" if you need to, but we here know better.
LK
Feh... (Score:3, Funny)
Tsk. Slackers. That's hardly worth buying a new spindle of DVDRs for, let alone going to prison for life.
What about Marijuana then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some view smoking marijuana as morally wrong but people spend decades in prison here for smoking a joint.
Re: (Score:2)
The fact that we have stupid laws in the US doesn't make China's stupid laws any more sensible.
If any potential "harm" doesn't go outside your own body, ALL humans, whether Chinese or American or whatever, should have the right to do whatever the hell they want to themselves. If that means wasting time by smoking pot (because, let's all admit it, you can't really say anything worse about it), not a
Re:What about Marijuana then? (Score:4, Insightful)
This might make it a little more clear on what he was saying:
"Hello, kettle? This is pot. You are black."
Larry Flynt [wikipedia.org] and Marvin Miller [wikipedia.org] may have some interesting tales to tell you about prosecution of pornography in the U.S.
Perhaps China is just "applying contemporary community standards" in determining if this man should have been punished.
See also: moral relativism [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2)
If the people that chose this life were left to fend for themselves and starve, that would be fine with me. Telling me that I need to pay to feed, clothe, house and buy drugs for these people is a bit much, don't you think?
Unfortunately, I am very much in the minority. You can retire from life in the US and live off w
faulty logic (Score:2)
1. Manhours. We could easily cut our police force in half if they didn't have to worry about drugs (see point #4.)
2. Imprisonment. It's DAMNED expensive. It includes welfare (food, shelter, medical care) and a whole lot more. You might be in favor of a more barbaric prison system, but some of us still believe in huma
Re: (Score:2)
Would you also extend that to people who get injured playing sports, skiing, driving a car, walking across the street, or making any other voluntary choice? Or only drugs?
Or are you just one of those... well, I can
Re: (Score:2)
Decades inside just for smoking a joint? Do you have any sources to back that claim up?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It also bears mentioning that shortly after 9/11 it was revealed that law enforcement agencies were holding seminars to ill
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Article Summary (Score:5, Funny)
"Oh, we'll punish the naughty boy," said the tall blonde one, stroking her gun suggestively.
is porn merely a Western invention? (Score:5, Interesting)
But isn't it interesting how governments of two of the most important nations of the world have strict controls on pornography.
China, because they like censorship in general.
But India has always put tight controls on sexually-related material. I don't know if they have a decency/obscenity code that webmasters need to follow. But certainly there is next to no production of porn-related material (especially when compared to Japan and US).
We cannot call India "backwards" or "repressive" with regard to free speech or sexual expression. They just haven't warmed up to porn.
Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare. Then again, I have no doubt that people in these countries are freely downloading Western porn; they just aren't producing it themselves.
One has to ask whether tolerance of porn/erotica is less a measure of liberalism than social norms. On the other hand, I feel pretty sure that in Asia/India and Arab countries prostitutions is rampant.
So pick your poison: prostitution/AIDS or porn/stripping.
One might even make the argument that whereas porn has been infiltrated by lots of feminists/actresses-turned-directors, brothels have remained a bastion of male rule.
Maybe it boils down to the technological issues; once enough people are armed with videocameras and ftp accounts, mores will change. But until that time, people in China and India will go gaga over Paris Hilton and Western porn stars.
Re:is porn merely a Western invention? (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny, I was just thinking that Japanese pornography strikes me as bizarre.
Re:is porn merely a Western invention? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
That does not explain why the Indian government restricts porn sites today. If it were only China, I would say, the ban is just symptomatic of repressive society. But India is not considered a repressive society. It is also a democracy.
There is probably more victimization (and disease) in the brothel than in the video production studi
Re:is porn merely a Western invention? (Score:4, Funny)
Not if you're doing it right. Hold on, I think the pizza guy is here.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you have not heard of certain Japanese perversions..perhaps Asia didn't invent porn
(although I think Indian murals are prior art!), but they certainly wrote some damn fine manuals.
Re: (Score:2)
I used to think it was a bit weird until I saw this [snopes.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare.
There's no "Asia". China and India are so huge and diverse that they have very little in common. The US and France probably have more in common than China and India.
Re: (Score:2)
Try Paleolithic. It's as cross-cultural as alcohol.
wtf???? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare. Then again, I have no doubt that people in these countries are freely downloading Western porn; they just aren't producing it themselves.
What? Asia is full of porn. Porn, love hotels, brothels, hostess bars (i.e. emotional prostitutes), strip clubs. Seriously. How were you not aware of this? And no. The bars don't cater to only a a foreign clientel. Many Japanese bars frequently put up big Jim
What is morally wrong? (Score:4, Interesting)
I find this part of the story submission rather peculiar.
What is morally wrong is to impose your own morality (like porn is bad) on others.
Regardless whether this imposition is by a government or by an institution.
As long as such a thing as the consumption and serving of porn is done between consenting adults there is morally absolutely nothing wrong.
(Yes I know some in Holland, Michigan differ with me but I'm from the Original Holland)
As long as a society, like here the Chinese, is of the opinion they can meddle in the private affairs of their people they are at best suspect.
Re: (Score:2)
According that definition, you are also morally wrong because you are saying that it is morally wrong to say porn is morally wrong, ie imposing your own morals on people. As long as they don't get the government involved, who really cares if someone says porn is wrong. If they want to go on their little crusades, let them. Want to make "porn rehab centers" and whatnot, who cares. They want to boycott businesses that dee
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think porn is morally wrong, but I do find people that get on high horses to be extremely abrasive. Including myself
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with this assumption is the question; your or his or maybe my God?
And what about those that do not know (a) God, are they per your (absolute!) code without moral?
Now who is imposing on others?
Re: (Score:2)
Jail time. (Score:3, Interesting)
In my supposedly free country, if I understand things correctly, and I have chatted with a lawyer about it, one can get 4 or 5 years of jail time for each non-genuine DVD or CD that you have in your posession. I don't think that is warranted either myself.
I don't even think the statutory damages are warranted myself.
all the best,
drew
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/262954 [ourmedia.org]
Sayings - Deterred Bahamian Novel
Re: (Score:2)
Are all of your country's laws perfect? All the politicians honest over that way?
all the best,
drew
http://musicians.opensrc.org/DrewRoberts [opensrc.org]
Laws != morals (Score:2, Insightful)
China and Porn as Crime (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Not necessarily. From what I've heard, you can buy in Sanlitun (Beijing) cheap films on DVD. More openly American films and a little bit more hidden (i.e. not on the open street) pornography. This, of course, is all illegal. But a crackdown happens only every now and then and only if a big-wig will show its face, or some international event comes. The reason, why there won't be mass-arrests is, that almost
Re: (Score:2)
On a larger scale, there are societal
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A. Murder:
- If you kill someone, you go to jail, unless it was self defense.
- If you
B. Rape:
- If you have intercourse with someone who was of a clear head and refused, you will be killed.
- If you drug someone into unconsciousness in order to have intercourse with them, you will b
Depends... (Score:2)
What type of porn are we talking? For relatively vanilla stuff, I'd agree that life in jail is way off...in most countries generic smut peddling might be seen as unsavoury, but AFAIK it's not a crime.
However, if we're talking snuff, paedophilia, or beastiality, I don't have any objection myself to the idea of someone involved in such to go away for a long time. Maybe not life, but I wouldn't see 2
Re: (Score:2)
I have an uncle who was put away for a dozen years for what he did to his teenage niece, and said niece's dog. I was also quite naturally able to closely observe the damage that said acts caused to my cousin and the rest of her family.
I'm assuming you do not come from a background of similar experience. It gives a person a somewhat unique perspective on such things.
This thread... (Score:4, Funny)
9M (Score:2)
And someone got to count them all. They'll probably throw him in jail next for obviously being corrupted by what he saw.
Obviously they couldn't have edited, even viewed, that much material individually with the number of people involved. I have to question that number at all. Sounds like an estimate of losses due to filesharing by the RIAA. Overall a good reason not to be
In communist china, you plea bargain for death. (Score:2)
So, you think the judge shouldn't have been so lienient?
Re:The Chinese government did the right thing. (Score:4, Insightful)
What about an off-color remark on Slashdot? You're polluting the site! LIFE IN JAIL. How about a turn on red, with a sign that says "no turn on red?" Those stupid drivers need to spend their lives in jail! The entire cast of Lost or Battlestar Galactica need to be sent to prison as well, because their shows show too much skin!
Seriously dude, don't you have any fucking compassion? So, just because you don't want to run into any porn sites on the Internet (boo hoo), you think people should rot in jail for life over it? You're on scary son of a bith.
Don't you realize that it's the very freedom of information (whether you like it or not) that has made the Internet as popular and useful as it is?
Re: (Score:2)
No, they need to be sent to prison because their shows suck.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty strong to have these two sentences on one line.
If I'd be living in your neighbourhood I would consider moving to a more enlightened place.
And that's something these poor Chinese victims of your type of 'Morality' can't do.
Re: (Score:2)
I think that this rubbish might get the faster packets. Careful what you wish for. It may not turn out as you think.
all the best,
drew
Re: (Score:2)
Him? Polarizing the issue? What do you think you've been doing by advocating prison terms that are wholly disproportionate to any real measurement of the crime?
I hope net neutrality doesn't pass in any form through congress so that this rubbish gets shafted with slower transfer of packets.
This represents a total failure at understanding net neutrality. If the ISPs break net neutrality, then they'll send you packets based on who pays them the most, not what they are, s
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The spirit in which pornography is created and viewed promotes immorality.
That's what YOU believe. Personally, I believe that sexuality shouldn't be suppressed, and I feel that the proliferation of pornography simply underscores our desire to be more open about sex. It shouldn't be a taboo. We're living and breathing organisms and it's a part of who we are. To deny that is to deny our very existence.
I don't believe pornography is created in a "spirit of immorality." I believe that some of it is over the top, as happens in anything, but I don't believe it's immoral any more
Re: (Score:2)
Two-faced weasel is a pretty close translation.
But Troll will be the verdict.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I hazard the guess He is also known as the God of Abraham.
In that case I declare you are the perfect example of a Pharisee.
Re:The Chinese government did the right thing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know no murderer has eternal life in him" (1 John 3, 15).
Now why don't you think a little more and judge a little less...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The Chinese government did the right thing. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm still trying to figure out why she should swallow though, but she wants it because it taste good!
You're forgetting some important factors. (Score:3)
No one said that pr0n sites are for children, and any adult that gets negatively affected by pr0n is under no obligation to view that material again. It's not to everybody's liking, but that doesn't mean that it should be banned just b
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Uh, are you referring to the porn sites, or slashdot?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You believe they mock a diety you've freely elected to worship.
Please keep in mind that the rational part of the world, the one which has has never chosen to believe in the existence of idols or gods, doesn't necessarily want the "moral values" your fellow cultists have invented forced upon them.
If you stopped searching for trivial things which you claim are offensive to you then life would probably be alot better for everybody.
You like to hang out in a building on Sundays and s
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not trying to troll. If I were, I would be an Anonymous Coward. These crass web sites not only typically have no value as information, they are crass in the way that they mock God's evolution. They go against my ethics. I know I'm not alone in this.
Ok. Here's my counter example.
Not only does your religous verbal defacation have no value as information, you are an ass in the way you think that because you don't agree, it's ok to send people to life in jail. Your intolerance goes against my ethics, I know I'm not alone in this. Hey everyone, let's lynch this person for being an ass.
Oh wait, I forgot...Free Speech.
You have the ability and the right to not view porn if you don't want to. You have the ability and right to install internet filterin
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
who dont offend against God's regulations because
of other reasons than believing in God will not be
saved. Removing the sites will do no good, excepting
in removing one source of temptation to you ( and me ).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)