Egypt Arrests More Bloggers 209
2think writes "The BBC is reporting that after bloggers highlighted recent public sexual harassment within view of Egyptian police, the government of Egypt has been arresting bloggers." From the article: "The most recently detained blogger, Abdel Kareem Nabil, was detained in Alexandria on 6 November and was charged with disrupting public order, inciting religious hatred and defaming the president. Amnesty International says Mr Amer appeared to have been detained for expressing critical views about Islam and Egypt's al-Azhar religious authorities."
Seems like a trend (Score:5, Insightful)
It certainly seems that blogger arrests are on the rise, such as the recent Greek blogger arrested for content he didn't write [newsvine.com], and the constant string of arrested bloggers and other internet users in China (such as documentary filmmaker Hao Wu [blogcritics.org]). This is probably an indication that Governments are just now learning about the influence commanded by a popular blogger rather than a change in policies around the globe
Re:Seems like a trend (Score:5, Informative)
Second: I imagine that the blogger knew that criticizing government officials &/or Islam was a bad career move.
As usual, TFA isn't that informative.
Google News [google.com] will usually lead you to a much better (Reuters) article [reuters.com]
Here's the essentials:
Egyptian police detained an opposition blogger in a chance security check on Sunday, a human rights group said.
Blogger Rami Siyam,
The area is home to the opposition Ghad (Tomorrow) party's headquarters, and security was especially tight in preparation for President Hosni Mubarak's speech to parliament on Sunday.
Police asked the four for identification.... They told Siyam their records showed he faced a court case in Sharkia province, and he would be transferred there for further checks. The other three were released.
It doesn't seem to me that the Egyptian Gov't went out of its way to nab this guy
Re:Seems like a trend (Score:5, Insightful)
Read between the lines. Of course the Egyptian government claimed it was random and a routine part of a security initiative. Seriously, what do you expect the Egyptian government to say? "In a targeted operation against political dissidents, we arrested members coming out of an opposition party's headquarters and took them away on bullshit charges, so that we wouldn't have to openly debate their ideas, and so we could discourage other people from speaking out".
It's exactly the same deal when the White House moves protesters to a "Free Speech Zone" (a name straight out of 1984) so nobody can hear them. They're never in a million years going to come out and admit they're trying to stifle dissent, they're going to claim it's for the safety of the public and the safety of the protestors themselves.
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I'll bold the relevant text from the article I quoted. As a bonus, I'll reorder the sentance so it is blindingly obvious: "a human rights group said Egyptian police detained an opposition blogger in a chance security check on Sunday."
As for your comment about frees speech zones... have you ever been to Cairo? Or talked to anyone who has? Their security measures are nothing like "Free S
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I visited Cairo in 2003 as part of a day package tour from Cypr
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Have you ever been confined to a "Free Speech Zone" ?
Why do you restrict this to "non-Western" countries? The phenomenon you're describing (media ignoring injustice unless there exists both governmental sanction to report it and a chance to get a ratings boost from it) i
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Steve Wiseman
http://www.windows-admin-tools.com [windows-admin-tools.com]
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Re:Seems like a trend (Score:4, Insightful)
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Funny. If I go to, say, Thailand to have sex with a teenager, upon my return I'll be arrested for having violated an American law. When a corporation goes to another country and fucks over its residents, that's just profit.
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Re:Seems like a trend (Score:4, Interesting)
Even by absolutist American standards of free speech, that's not a problem -- the party gets to make rules for what members are allowed to do, and kick out people who don't comply.
That's not a free speech issue. (Score:2)
However, with that said, I
Learn about Egypt (Score:2, Informative)
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You are wrong - they "rendered" prisoners to Egypt specificly becuase of the history of human rights abuses.
If you really want to see co-operation with a very nasty bunch take a look at what US troops are helping with in Algeria - let's hope they don't bring some bad habits home.
Wah' dijah get? (Score:3, Interesting)
All we need now is a set of 8 X 10 glossies, some turkey stuffing and a gang of father-rapers.
Face it - if a pair of handcuffs have your name on them, you're going downtown and the charges only have to stick for as long as it takes to throw you in the back of the paddy wagon. Once they find out how this all works, they'll put this guy, or someone like him, on their payroll with those otherwise shady tactics working for their own purposes.
Youtube to the rescue (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SGamUeMec [youtube.com]
nothing yet? (Score:4, Insightful)
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apparently not.
Here We Go Again? (Score:2)
The media was much more direct and local (mostly word of mouth, except the church sermons and monarch's decrees), the population smaller, the expectations of free expression and even justice much lower.
But people were still people. I wonder how much more support people in places like Egypt get from freer people outside, proportionately, than in similar situat
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Read:
http://biblia.com/christianity/inquisition.htm#Pr
or
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ247.HTM [ic.net]
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So if you'll drop your dogmatic view of the Protestant/Catholic relationship during "the" Inquisition as simply domestic oppression of non-Catholics, you'll have a chance to learn something about the actual dynamic. Which could help us in learning about today's dynamic.
Don't replace the Catholic catechism with a new master o
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Same as Europe or Canada... (Score:2)
Why bloggers are being arrested... (Score:5, Informative)
The Egyptian government was embarrassed, but its response was to completely deny the incident and censor its press from reporting it. Hence, the outrage came out in the blogs. Note that this happened almost 4 weeks ago on Oct 24 and it's just NOW starting to come out. The government has also taken the stance that the bloggers are trying to "humiliate" Egypt and Islam by talking about the incidence and that's why they are persecuted. Please read these articles for more information
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/15/world/africa/15c airo.html [nytimes.com]
http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=56301& SelectRegion=Middle_East [irinnews.org]
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/10/30/the-eid-sexua l-harassment-incident/ [sandmonkey.org]
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Western values not really adopted in many countrie (Score:2)
The one thing that holds those countries back is religion. Religion is a prison in those countries: it does not let you think on your own.
The real battle is not to fight for free speech, but to fight religions...
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Some other background (Score:2)
I heard a program on the BBC World Service a couple of weeks ago, when this public sexual harassment was taking place.
Apparently, according to one of the people being interviewed, there is very high unemployment amongst young men in Egypt at the moment. This leads them to gather in large groups with nothing to do. Also, because sex before ma
Contact information for the Egyptian embassy (Score:2)
3521 International Ct. NW
Washington DC 20008
Phone (202) 895 5400
Fax (202) 244 5131
Email: embassy@egyptembdc.org
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I always find it odd that Americans needed an amendment to get these rights instead of them being included from the start.
Constitutional engineering (Score:3, Informative)
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There's the theoretical world and the real world- and in the real world arresting people for speech the government doesn't like is actually a pretty measured and modern response- considering what Arabs in Africa and the Middle East have become famous for when it comes to dealing with free speech issues.
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Of course in the UK they don't even go so far as to arrest people for speech the government doesn't like; they only have to declare it 'antisocial behavior' and they can make up a new law just for that one person, without it even going through parliament.
As Tony Blair would say; "of course criticising the government is antisocial beh
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To be fair to two-faced-Tony, he has not yet, so far as I know, actually *said* that (my exact words included 'as Tony Blair would say').
But he will. This is where the whole game is headed in the UK; criticism of the government declared 'antisocial behavior' and punished under the same laws.
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HAHAHAHAHAHA.... what? you don't get the joke? oh nevermind
And what's with the beheading crap, that's for murderers (with full intent, not accident or self-defense).
On other note the Egyptian government is FUBAR, and you should take any Islam (or any religion for that matter) related stuff from them with a whole sack of salt.
Example: A 'fatwa' from them said smoking is OK for the rich but prohibited for the poor.
See, a government full of shit.
P.S: Smoking is prohibited
Re:How apppropriate (Score:4, Informative)
Tell that to Mirza Tahir Hussain, who just got released from Death Row in Pakistan for a self defence incident when he was being sexually assaulted at gunpoint by a taxi driver. It took Prince Charles, Tony Blair and many more before them to get him freed, not killed, after being found innocent but then retried under Islamic law.
Take two... (Score:2)
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I've never heard of Christians beheading people- though this response does seem mild in comparison to what other Islamic sects do.
It's savages like them and like the christian right who are going to plunge the world into the next dark age (we've already got the tools for an inquisistion set
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Nevermind that whole crusades thing...
Face facts- the reason why Islamic terrorism is so popular is precisely because atheists have become common.
That's a subjective, self-serving, bullshit statement if I've ever heard one.
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Which was started by the military expansion of Islam after General Mohammed figured out that a common morality and belief system was important for troop morale.
That's a subjective, self-serving, bullshit statement if I've ever heard one.
Not at all- listen to an Islamic street preacher sometime. It's the immorality and amorality of western culture, and the atheism of socialists, that forms the very basis of the hatred for infidels today. Of course, you're too sma
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Nothing to do with the fact that we arm and support tyrannical governments that violate Islamic laws about giving people trials before punishing them?
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That's upper crust thinking- I'm talking about the street preachers who recruit the terrorists to begin with. To them, it's the infidels threatening their daughter's virginity with immoral and immodest clothing, the idea of anybody other than God making law, and the idea that the best infidel is a dead infidel. A different Koran than you've read, I'm sure-
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Congratulations for the brilliant non sequitur, sir. Not only did you manage to pull atheism completely out of the blue, but you also managed to use it to contradict yourself. I am nothing compared to you.
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You're offering this nonsense as "facts"?
Ultimately, Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism is an explosion of resentful rage against the success of Western civilization (e.g. the prosperity of Israel built out of a small non-oil-bearing corner of the desert).
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Yes- and what exemplifies Western Civilization above all else? SECULARISM.
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Islam is today where Christianity was a little over 500 years ago; it takes itself *way* too seriously.
They've lost their sense of humor and perspective. They just need to lighten up a bit.
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It's not a case of them "taking their religion too seriously", it's a case of their religion and their state becoming seriously intertwined. In the West, we had that under the catholic church (and to a lesser extent, some other denominations). The problem when you have church and state together, is that when someone criti
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When I was a kid at school, I once used the epithet 'son of a bitch' to another kid who, as I discovered, was a Muslim.
The phrase was so offensive to him that this started a war. A very serious war.
It turns out that dogs gave the prophet away when he was trying to sneak back into Mecca, so by implying that his mother was a bitch I was implying that he was a dog and hence a betrayer of the prophet. This was enough for him to risk life and limb over.
Thats
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That might be so; I wasn't really arguing that point, I don't know enough about Islam to do so. The main point I was making was that most modern religions "take themselves seriously"; it's just that what they take seriously isn't generally as confrontational as that which Islam does.
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I guess we should get rid of all the atheists, because that's what our enemies want, right? But wouldn't that mean "the terrorists have won"?
In any case, you are pretty off-the-planet with that argument. Muslim extremists hate Jews (and Christians, for that matter) more than they hate atheists. Also, there aren't very many atheists in the world - most of the world is religious, and nearly all countri
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Please make the acquaintance of the stories of Anne Boleyn [wikipedia.org], Marie Antoinette [wikipedia.org], and Monsieur Robespierre [wikipedia.org].
Of course, there's also burning [wikipedia.org] people [wikipedia.org] alive.
I'm sure that (most) modern Christians would be appalled at what has been done by their co-religionists in the past.
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For someone with your username, you obviously don't know too much about Marxism!
"Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again [wikipedia.org]". -- Karl Marx
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Then why did the French move the center of the Church to Avalon, if Rome was so powerful? Why did the Spanish hold Inquisitions against the will of Rome, if excommunication of powerful kings was so easy? Best yet, how did Henry VIII kick the Church out of England and name himself, in essence, the Pope, if the Church were so powerfull?
Science didn't progress as it couldn't be afforded.
Funny, Coperni
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What about the Spanish in the 1300s? What about King Herod for that matter, beheading John the Baptist? Or all of those martyrs in the first 200 years? In fact, I can find no time that the C
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Re:Freedom of speech, or freedom to hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
On the contrary, if you choose not to defend this person's free speech, you are personally doing what you can do to destroy the bedrock value of Western culture. You can argue against his ideas. But when you support his imprisonment for those ideas, you might as well move to Egypt. You clearly don't support the values of Western culture. You actually appear to be a force seeking to destroy Western culture.
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Which may be why grandparent is called "Bad Analogy Guy".
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It seems to me that you're engaging in a bit of ethnocentrism.
Egypt is not a stable Democracy, like many Western cultures. Hosni Mubarak*, the current President of Egypt, is a former Air Force Officer and ascended to office when his predecessor (Anwar Sadat) was as
Freedom isn't a minor issue. (Score:2)
I agree with all your points, right up until you said this. I don't think that any of the other issues that you mentioned, are necessarily more important than freedom of speech. If anything, freedom of speech is their biggest issue, and in order to secure that, they'd need to fix the rest of their government: because a corrupt government generally isn't conducive to a free soci
Re:Freedom of speech, or freedom to hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Interesting definition of a secular state- do you think they'll be abandoning the Koran in their constitutions anytime soon? Or will the Turks accept the Kurds and the remaining few Armenians with open arms? I think if they did, they could help solve one of President Bush's major problems by annexing the northern third of Iraq. I'm now convinced that America has no friends in the middle east- only trading partners controlled by the enemy of us all, the petroleum corporations.
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I'm now convinced that America has no friends in the middle east- only trading partners controlled by the enemy of us all, the petroleum corporations.
Bring on the Magnetic [rexresearch.com] Over-Unity [www.fdp.nu] devices [pureenergysystems.com]!
Why would we ever be friends? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course America has no "friends" in the Middle East, at least not unless you count Israel. But why should we? I don't mean this in terms of 'america is evil, blah blah blah,' but in terms of what, exactly, do Americans and most people in the Middle East (Muslims in particular) have in common, in terms of political philosophy? Precious little, at least from w
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There is Indonesia: over 200 million people, world's 4th most populous country behind the United States, and the most populous Muslim country. Indonesia is a democracy with guarantees of freedom of religion for all in their constitution. Of course Indonesia is not part of the Middle East which is wh
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How secular would you consider the US to be if GW gave Pat Robertson the exclusive power to seize/ban/destroy everything "non-Christian"?
Yes, played like a fiddle (Score:2)
This guy:
Has a screenname that happens to also be part of the name of someone America killed, as confirmed by "a quick check"
Is a socialist, as confirmed by "a quick check"
Is being persecuted for criticizing the "secular state" of Egypt
ergo, he's part of some propaganda machine seeking to destroy Western culture on behalf of a socialist agenda.
Nevermind the fact that he's being detained without any given reason. Nevermind that Al-Azhar is very much not a secular institution.
Cl
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Take your own advice (Score:2)
News Flash: projecting your own foot-dragging apathy on the rest of the world isn't very productive.
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Or perhaps Egypt is being vilified to distract from the situation at home (e.g. free speech zones, FBI visits, communications decency act, etc. in the USA)?
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Egypt secular? (Score:2)
I agree about anti-Islamic sentiment fueling a knee jerk reaction but didn't Egypt pass an amendment to its constitution in 1980 that prohibits any law that contravenes the prevailing principles of Islamic Law [wikipedia.org]
Doesn't sound too secular to me. But then again I suppose you could say the same thing about a lot of countries. UK law prohibits Catholics from being monarchs, for example.
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But this does raise an interesting point: Free speech isn't exactly a universal value, and we shouldn't expect it to be so. Just because our own secular religion "holds these truths to be self-evident" doesn't mean that they are either self evident or truths.
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The term "universal value" is generally understood to refer to the general population of civilized people, with the understanding that individual sociopaths might be exceptions -- for example, the fact that Charles Manson had no problem with killing people, Jesse James had no problem with robbing people, or Josef Stalin had no problem with oppressing people does not invalidate respect for life, property, or free speech as unive
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True enough- but I'd argue that there are MANY civilized peoples around the world that don't value free speech- and even see such freedoms as a danger to civilization itself.
Are fascists civilized? (Score:2)
Then we have to wonder if such fascists (who deny such a basic human right) can even be called civilized.
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Can they please arrest some
Re:From what I've seen (Score:4, Funny)
Yep, in some parts they regularly execute the victims.
Re:From what I've seen (Score:4, Interesting)
In Saudi Arabia, a 17 year old girl was recently sentenced to death for killing one of the three men who attempted to rape her and her cousin. The remaining two men were not charged with any crime.
Don't pretend for one moment that women have any legal rights in an Islamic country. The laws do a better job of protecting horses than women. I'm not being sarcastic. That is an honest fact. Horses have a higher rank in Islamic societies.
Islam is a religion of oppression and hate. We can all sit in a happy circle and sing kumbaya wishing for peace, but that is a fantasy. The stated goal of Islam is to convert the entire world, by the sword if necessary.
I will hold this stance against Islam until the major leaders of that sick religion denounce all forms of violence to obtain their goals.
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As for misunderstanding, since the koran (now in two-ply) specifies that conversion by the sword (along with lots of other "fun" stuff) is perfectly acceptable, I don't see how I misunderstood a damn thing. Since major islamic religious leaders repeat this sentiment, it's reasonable to assume the belief is alive and well.
I simply don't understand the extreme left. The islamic world is
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