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Amazon's A9 Drops Retained Data Methods

Posted by Zonk on Tue Oct 03, 2006 09:39 AM
from the my-favorite-methods dept.
eldavojohn writes "The recent update to Amazon's A9 service has removed its ability to record searches. A9 (which now uses Windows Live & Alexa) used to tout the ability to save every single search the user made, which required a login. Now, they no longer require you to log in and have dropped the recording of searches from their toolbar. What they added was aesthetic changes to the search site. What they dropped was the A9 Instant Reward, the A9 Toolbar, the A9 Yellow Pages, the A9 Maps (including Block View), the user diary, bookmarks, and history. Although they claim that A9 is merely 'shifting its priorities to areas where it can provide the greatest benefit for customers,' this smacks of a move to avoid the ethical controversies and pressures that come with retaining your user data. What does the rest of Slashdot think about retaining search data? Is it a liability or an asset?"
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[+] Technology: Gap Between Google and Competition Widening 188 comments
eldavojohn writes "Business Week has up an article trying to explain why it is getting harder and harder to 'catch' Google in the search engine game. We've heard of many different kinds of search engines and many different companies entering the market but: '... Google keeps gaining share in the face of newly launched capabilities on other engines. In August, Google sites gained 6.8 percentage points of search share from a year earlier, according to researcher comScore Media Metrix. Meantime, Yahoo lost 1 percentage point, Microsoft's sites lost 3.3 percentage points, and Ask.com lost one-half of a percentage point.' All of this on the heels of recent news that A9 scaled back its features. Is it possible to think of a number better than a one with a hundred zeros behind it?"
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  • Depends... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EaglemanBSA (950534) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @09:41AM (#16290807)
    I suppose that depends on what data is being stored, and why...in the case of Amazon, I personally could care less if someone else could look at which CD's I'm interested in. I think the decision should be left to the end user.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      ANYTHING can be either used, or abused. And one way to ensure something is not abused, is to not have it around.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        ANYTHING can be either used, or abused. And one way to ensure something is not abused, is to not have it around.

        I have a feeling Amazon was less worried about "abuse" of its retained data by authorities than it was profits. I have a feeling they thought the data they were retaining could be mined for profit - when they found out storing the data was more costly than the money they could make from it, they dropped it.

        One way to make sure extra storage isn't costing money is to not have it around.

    • I suppose that depends on what data is being stored, and why...in the case of Amazon, I personally could care less if someone else could look at which CD's I'm interested in. I think the decision should be left to the end user.

      Well, I popped this question because I think the recent news with the governments of multiple countries demanding search results has put a hampering on this data-mining-for-good-reasons initiative that so many companies have started. You didn't cover what would happen if the data u

      • by LordEd (840443) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:10AM (#16291189)
        The government> I accuse Mr. White in the Conservatory with the CD!

        A search is not a purchase. For purchases, there are already records. It doesn't matter if you're searching for that new-fangled satanic rock and roll. If it matters at all, it will be if you purchase (or download) the CD.
        • And government officials will care about this difference? If I check Mein Kampf out of the library and return it the next day without reading it I'll still be on a list if a government official requests it.

          WE know what the data means. THEY do not care.
          • No, you won't. Libraries (at least in the US) don't keep your checkout information once the book has been returned, to avoid exactly this situation. I just contacted my local library to help my wife find a book she had checked out and read but could no longer remember the title. They verified that they don't keep that information, in large part to avoid uncomfortable and expensive litigation with government subpoenas.
  • by iamjoltman (883526) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @09:42AM (#16290817)
    So are they saying that you no longer get the A9 discount at Amazon if you use the search page? That's the only reason I was using it! Without that discount, I, and I'm sure others, will no longer use their search.
    • That's how I read their statement, but I still see the π/2% logo on Amamzon pages. So I don't know how much longer the discount will last.
    • .. how people will jump through hoops for something free/money off. The site offered about 1.5% which is pretty piss poor. I sure as hell wasn't going to dump google just for the sake of discount that wouldn't even cover postage.
      • by iamjoltman (883526) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:08AM (#16291161)
        Hey, when you have a family to support, every penny counts! And besides, I hardly ditched Google, I just sent a search through there once or twice a week just to keep the discount active, then I usually ended up putting the same search into Google anyway :P
      • by bigbigbison (104532) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:38AM (#16291525) Homepage
        When A9 first debuted, it used google results, so it didn't really matter. Now it uses msn's search, it isn't nearly as good, but once or twice a week instead of typing in a url, I'll just search A9 for the title of the website.
        1.5% may not be much, but it takes so little effort that it is worth it.
        I just checked and the pi/2 discount is still in effect, so I'm not sure if that actually is going away or if they just aren't promoting it any more.
  • by Chrisje (471362) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @09:47AM (#16290899)
    Let's assume I'm not searching for too outlandish things. Let's pretend I do not look for 70's pr0n featuring dogs, or if I do, that my fiance is aware of it and condones it. Being fairly normal and open means I have nothing to hide. They can retain all the data on me they like. It's no skin off my back, if you will.

    The only but in that statement is that I don't want them to retain search- or private data under two circumstances:

    1) If the search data affects the answers given in future searches
    2) If it results in spam or theft of any kind

    Now, providing it's securely stored, doesn't affect answers to future queries and helps them enhance their services, I really don't mind.

    • What if the government wants to troll through your search queries to see if you committed a crime? I assume that's ok with you.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        Yes,

        That is OK with me. I don't commit crimes. Misdemeanors in the realm of speeding, smoking where I shouldn't and taking a leak against a tree aside, I am pretty much squeaky clean. The government can definately look through my google search history.

        For the past 48 hours they will learn where to find bronze ore in MapleStory, they will learn I bought a Denon 1906 DTS 7:1 Receiver at a decent price, and they will learn quite a bit about the Wharfedale 3-way speakers I am currently looking at. Lastly, they
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          IT DOESN'T MATTER. They should not be watching even this mundane information without probable cause. What if the movie review you read was for "Fahrenheit 9/11" and some government agents decided to punish all conspiracy theorists. Nothing of what you do or search for is the government's business until you break a law (over-simplified, but still basically true). And even then they're limited by your rights.

          History has taught us many lessons. And one of them is that information and power will be abused.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          It doesn't matter if you believe that you don't commit crimes. The problem is that government should not be invading your privacy without a warrant or probable cause of imminent harm. Not possible illegal activity. If the government was worried that you are doing something wrong, let them go through the proper channels and get a judge to issue a search warrant.
      • What search proves I committed a crime? Or even hints I committed a crime? They'll probably incorrectly use this data to determine which citizens need to be watched. But I doubt they'll be able to use it effectively in criminal trials.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          What if a couple of dogs go missing in the neighbourhood, will you be pissed when the government comes to your door with a subpoena to search your premises? What if they come in to your work, and feel the need to talk to your fellow employees? (Maybe it was the Bushs dogs, Cuddles) Do you start to get annoyed now? What if they want to talk to your family about your strange habits, and your sister no longer wants you to hang around with your nieces and nephews?
  • Amazon would be downright stupid not to save the search data; they're just not visibly saving it anymore (thus, less questions), that's all.

    By this same argument, one might say "oh, look, google isn't saving search data either; if I can't see it, it's not there!". Yeah, riiight.
  • The big issue on recording searches is that a third party is storing (and possibly selling/revealing) information on you. So what if the system were changed to store your searches locally, run the analysis locally, and report back only links between data, not the data, or personally identifiable information.

    For example, you search for David Bowie, then you search for 'The Cure'. The analysis process determines that you have linked David Bowie and The Cure and reports that link back to the search engine. Eve
  • by davidwr (791652) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:20AM (#16291295) Homepage Journal
    Web sites that do collect "non-essential" data should give the customer the opt in or opt out, depending on the nature of the site. Sites like banks that must create audit trails for certain transactions need to have full disclosure.

    Slashdot gives me the option of posting and submitting stories under my user-id or anonymously. Everyone knows that I, davidwr, posted this message at the time indicated above. Any paying subscriber can look up "davidwr" any time in the future and see all the messages I posted. If I wanted to be private, I could be "Anonymous Coward."

    I avoid newspaper sites tha require a login because I want to eliminate the possibility they will tie what I read today with what I read tomorrow.
  • by Comboman (895500) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:25AM (#16291351)
    What they dropped was the A9 Instant Reward, the A9 Toolbar, the A9 Yellow Pages, the A9 Maps (including Block View), the user diary, bookmarks, and history.

    It's a shame to lose A9 maps, the block view was a very useful feature. Google Map's integration of satellite photos is impressive but lets face it, most of us view the world from the ground not the from the sky, so the block view is helpful for seeing what your destination looks like. Unfortunately, they only got around to photographing the downtown core of a handful of major US cities.

  • by blueZhift (652272) on Tuesday October 03 2006, @10:58AM (#16291781) Homepage Journal
    Most of the time the stuff I look for isn't anything special as near as I can tell. But I'd ultimately prefer that my search data is not saved. What's innocuous today, could get one landed in jail, embarassed, or worse years later. When I browse a real bookstore, no one is following me around noting every book I pick up or cover I glance at. I'd like the same consideration given to my online searches. I have nothing to hide (right now), but I still don't want to be spied on, unless it's by attractive women with amorous intent! ;)
  • Slashdot blinders (Score:4, Informative)

    by deblau (68023) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Tuesday October 03 2006, @11:17AM (#16292113) Journal
    What does the rest of Slashdot think about retaining search data? Is it a liability or an asset?

    This is a classic case of Slashdot blinders, thinking the entire world is black or white. Here, let me help you:

    Retaining data is obviously a liability. It's invasive of my privacy. It gives companies data on me that they can sell to other companies without my permission, and those other companies send me annoying pre-screened offers of credit. My info will eventually end up in a big database in the basement of the FBI, where they'll try to link me to terrorism by playing a big connect-the-dots game. 'He searched for the Anarchist Cookbook and Catcher in the Rye. Arrest his ass.'

    On the other hand, retaining data is obviously an asset. It allows companies to cater their services to my personal needs. It lets them suggest products that I may not have even known existed. My information builds company worth, which stimulates the economy and provides employees with jobs. It facilitates retailer/customer trust and loyalty, which benefits both parties.

    I'm sure I could go on and on with more arguments for both sides, but I hope you've gotten the point by now: the world isn't black and white, business decisions are hard, and the rest of the world already knows these things.