Paypal Agrees to Consumer Protections

davidwr writes "Paypal settled a suit with Maryland and 27 states. Among other things, they'll conspicuously advertise a contact phone number and staff it 14 hours a day and be much more forthcoming about when they will debit your bank account. For those of you who think Paypal Sucks, well, starting soon it sucks just a little less."

finally

The US is clamping down on thier branch of paypal, those who provide bank like services should be treated like banks.

Re:finally

But that's still not the case. If they were "being treated as a bank" the regulators would have said "thou shalt follow Reg E and all of it's consumer protections" instead of reaching an agreement.

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The US is clamping down on thier branch of paypal, those who provide bank like services should be treated like banks.

Yes! It's about time this clamp-down happened. I'm glad that PayPal will now be forced skin me alive according to the best principles.

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Hell no! PayPal has gotten worse and worse since it's been trying to be more like a bank. I'm constantly being annoyed with calls 'Did you make this purchase - it doesn't fit your profile.' and constantly having to dig up information to prove my account is

Suckage

"For those of you who think Paypal Sucks, well, starting soon it sucks just a little less."

Do people really think that when a corporation gets ordered by a court to behave in a different way, that the organisation will really change? At best, the scre

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So you trust some unknown person with your banking information, but not a company. Do you realized that everytime you give out that information you are risking being taken for all that you have in the bank. One of the Nigerian scams involves getting you

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If I pay someone on ebay by a bank transfer, they give me their details, not the other way round (so my privacy is actually maintained, of course they get an address to post the goods to). I don't use ebay much, but from my recent use it appears that a rea

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no (British) bank should let funds be removed from an account with just the a/c name, number and sort code

The obvious exception here being the Direct Debit scheme, although that does require specific written approval and carries significant consumer prot

o (British) bank should let....

o (British) bank should let funds be removed from an account with just the a/c name, number and sort code

How do you think I setup all those direct debits on my girlfriends bank account then?

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Direct debit - here in Britain - is subject to vigorous protection. It requires you to give permission to your bank, and if you contest any of the charges then your branch is obliged to immediately refund them. To use it to steal money you would have to fi

Re:Suckage

The 419 scam is usually more work for them than that. The scam usually runs like "Hey, I have all this money, and I'll give you some if you front me the money to get it out of the country". All they steal is the money you send, though frequently they get even more when they ask for money for "additional unexpected circumstances". Once they've found somebody sufficiently greedy or gullible, they milk them, not the account.

Occasionally it's been known to turn to kidnaping and ransom when people visit Nigeria to try to get their money back or even follow an invitation to "help".

It's also called "Advance Fee Fraud". I still don't know why it's the Nigerians who make it so famous, since the scam has been played for centuries, even without bank transfers. They just seem to have turned it into a national industry.

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From TFA:
"Under terms of the settlement agreement, PayPal said it is not admitting any liability for the allegations in the dispute."

From the actual court transcript: "Your Honor, my client PayPal is sorry, but not sorry for what the plaintiffs thought we

Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929)

Nope, they'll still suck if they continue to:

- locking out accounts for 'attempted signing in from another country' - yeah, without even getting a correct password
- only use a password to secure accounts
- only provide a national rate number in the UK, although you can get them on 0800 358 7929 for free
- expect you to send absolutely everything by fax yet they won't talk to you except by email
- not allow you to speak to anyone in the dispute or resolution centre, leaving you arguing with sales staff who don't have a clue
- make it impossible to close your account if it is locked, even after providing all the information you can and no money left in there

I'm disgusting with Paypal and going through the process of deleting my account. It's not easy, but I'll keep trying. Paypal will always suck in the UK it seems... :(

Dug

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You forgot blaming eBay for problems and vice versa when they are both the same company.

If there's a payment problem on eBay, eBay will say "No, it's Payal's problem."

You go and contact Paypal, they say "No, it's eBay's problem."

See here [clarkhoward.com]

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To be fair, that's often the case with any large organisation. While it certainly shouldn't be the response that a customer gets, internally that'll almost certainly be exactly how things are set up. Certainly it is where I work, and my company was bought

Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929)

My favourite - sending you an email, dated "day 1". Saying that for whatever reason, they'll action a direct debit on your account in "5 working days, so please ensure sufficient funds". The very next day, you get a call from your bank manager. "A direct debit from PayPal has been dishonoured and you've been charged a fee". Wow, that 5 working days went fast. And of course PayPal bills you for the dishonour fee. And when you ask why, when you eventually get an answer, "Well, we could bill it at any time. We send that email as a courtesy. We chose to do so before then, as is our right."

Bleh. Asshats.

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"This is a notice to inform you we will process a direct debit from your account five days from now, so please ensure there are sufficient funds..."

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Tell me something.. how the hell do you delete a paypal account? I've had one for a while and not used it. So where the hell are the interface options for killing the account? I don't feel comfortable having an idle paypal account linked to my bank acco

Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929)

Except they still keep the bank account info. I deleted an account from my PayPal account, then for some reason (stupid me) tried to use it on a different account I set up later. So I registered the account and then wham I couldn't use that debt-card because it was tied to the old account.

I went into the old account and apparently someone had complained that the printer I sold on ebay and advertised as "broken, parts only, as-is" didn't work upon recipt. So they charged me back the $20. So now, 4 years later, I have a PayPal account with a -120 balance, an "open collections" account on my credit history, and will never ever EVER use PayPal again.

The worst part is, even after I deleted that checking account, they tried to withdraw the 20 dollars for the charge-back from it. They tried four times! I was broke at the time, didn't even have 20 dollars in the account, so I got charged 25 dollar "insufficent funds" from them also. They can rot for all I care I will not pay that. I would have paid the $20 originally because it was my mistake for using eBay... but I will not pay the additonal fees. I filed a complaint against PayPal at my bank, and they told me that "they hear that a lot about them" and that they've blocked PayPal from ever touching my account...

Re:Nope, they'll still suck (0800 358 7929)

I'm disgusting with Paypal and going through the process of deleting my account. It's not easy, but I'll keep trying. Paypal will always suck in the UK it seems...

They will continue to suck, but you don't have to let them get away with it over here. Unlike in the US, the UK holds Paypal responsible for nonsense like this. Screw their "customer support" lines, go directly to the Financial Ombudsman [financial-...man.org.uk] - Paypal is permitted 8 weeks from the time you initially state your complaint, and then the Ombudsman can take over. This is a tax-funded service that is free to you as a consumer; Paypal is obliged to cooperate with them as a condition of doing business in the UK at all. Any decision made by the Ombudsman is binding on Paypal in the same manner as a court judgement would be.

Having taken care of that, feel free to report the whole affair to the Financial Services Authority [fsa.gov.uk]. Where the Ombudsman takes care of your case, the FSA shakes the company by the neck until they stop creating more cases. This one in particular:

not allow you to speak to anyone in the dispute or resolution centre, leaving you arguing with sales staff who don't have a clue

is an offence that already carries a hefty fine if proven. A company regulated by the FSA is not allowed to create barriers like this; they are required to have a clear and efficient complaints procedure and follow it precisely.

Lastly, the Office of Fair Trading [oft.gov.uk] can also weigh in when any company doing business in the UK fails to handle complaints in a reasonable manner or generally tramples on their customers for profit, in the unlikely event that the FSA is not interested.

Personally, I'm underwhelmed

For those of you who think Paypal Sucks, well, starting soon it sucks just a little less.

In fact it sucks less by precisely the minimum decrement of suckage allowed under law, and only then when compelled by the court. Way to go, paypal.

This doesn't make them any more honest, it just stops one of their unfair practices. I'm sure they can think of others.

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I was thinking the same thing, it's like "golly, now they'll almost be as bad as a bank!" what an amazing improvement.

I suppose this means that paypal is going to have to set new hours of operation for their website, something like 11am till 3:30pm. I'd ex

Consumer Suspicions

I'm more interested in when they will be sued for blocking accounts [slashdot.org] based on "terrorist" last names.

Human rights [un.org], anyone?

PayPal not sucking?

Does it mean that PayPal will stop blocking accounts (and the money in them) for peregrine reasons like, in my case, your name sounding similar to Al Qaeda's terrorists? And I'm not even in the same continent nor religion as them!

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Re:PayPal not sucking?

This is modded Funny, but he's absolutely serious. Paypal can and will block your account and SEIZE all of the money in it for any reason whatsoever. Not liking your name is a new one for me, but I've seen plenty of hardship on the web. Newzbin.com, a usenet indexing site, regularly lost thousands of dollars at a time to this practice. They would petition and be re-instated, but lose all their money. It was their main payment method, and most of their customers preferred it, so they kept dealing with it... Until it happened like 3 times in 3 months. They finally called it quits and use other payment methods now.

Paypal DOES suck. And they SHOULD be regulated like a bank. I suspect their business model might have issues if they do, though.

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I'm wondering why some bank doesn't step in and offer a viable PayPal competitor? They have the knowledge and the resources to create one, and they have the funds to provide the safety nets and bank-required measures that an only PayPal-type service shoul

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Since they are legally obligated to shut down accounts that match terrorist names, I wouldn't bet on it stopping (or being substantially different with other services).

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Since they are legally obligated to shut down accounts that match terrorist names, I wouldn't bet on it stopping (or being substantially different with other services).

referance please? though i really wouldn't be suprised if it actually is true.

Here is why they sucked 4 me.. .

I sold some information (nothing exotic). It was only $125 and i delivered my end. -a clean deal. A few months go by and i log into my account and see -125 So i say, "WTF why do i have a chargeback & why was i not contacted seeing how you have all my personal info" (acurate info)

They say i did not suppy tracking information when asked. I had 3 days to send this info before my account was jacked by some little twerp. (zabasearch gave me his home address) I did not check this email because it is only used for paypal, & with no business going on.. why check it?

So not only did i loose the data i sold,.. but i ended up paying somebody to take it for me.
So if you sell something as a "service" how are you to provide a tracking number? Any graphic or website payment can be charged back
-another loophole & it seems that paypal does not give a shat about the person who has been using the service from the beginning.

now i have to deal with the twerp & waste more time.

/end rant

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why was i not contacted... I did not check this email because it is only used for paypal

So, you were in fact contacted. I'm not arguing that what they did was right, but your anger at not being contacted is misplaced.

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Yup, by not having an active credit card at the time you receive the chargeback. I suppose it lands you in legally hot water, though.

Happy Days!

"We hope this agreement with an industry leader will set standard best practices for Internet businesses across the country to follow," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott ... PayPal must also establish a conspicuous "Contact Us" link on its Web pages and provide a toll-free customer support number that operates at least 14 hours daily, according to the attorney general's office. - Star-Telegram Austin [dfw.com]

Standard best practices??? 14x7 and a toll-free number that probably only works within the continental USA? Welcome to 1950.

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It's better if it works, and if it helps the US economy by not having a call centre outside the Continental 48.

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a toll-free number that probably only works within the continental USA?

If that toll-free number works within the continental USA, you'll be able to get at it through Skype, at least.

Wah?

PayPal not sucking is as improbable as Slashdot not duping.

Thanks, thanks, I'll be here all week.

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SCUMMVM

well, starting soon it sucks just a little less.

It'd suck even less if they'd allow donations for SCUMMVM [slashdot.org] again...

Just a little less

But the golf ball though a garden hose still applies.

I hate when websites advertise paypalsucks.com

It is run and sponsored by the competition. The webmaster tries to deny that saying he's just advertising alternatives, but the alternatives advertised on paypalsucks.com are FAR WORSE and just fronts for laundering and identity theft.

StormPay
iKobo
YowCow

Re:

I'm just an innocent bystander here, but do you have proof for your claims? Or at least a little more development?

Wouldn't have believed it...

Didn't PayPal (supposedly) increase their customer service efforts a year or so ago? There's an old story which needs to be dug up.

The mode of the customer service isn't the problem, it's the quality. Even if there are live operators, that won't make any d

since we're trading anecdotes ...

... I haven't had any problems. Yet. I send invoices through PayPal, people pay me, I transfer the money out, and everybody's happy.

(whistles nervously, knocks wood ...)

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Almost...

In Soviet Russia, YOU take money from PayPal!

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But to all those people using PayPal what do you really expect? [...] There's not rules and regulations to stop them from breaking laws that in any other financial institution are... well... laws.

I expect Paypal (and any other company that functions like t

re: What do I expect from PayPal?

First of all, PayPal does not act "like a bank" in all respects. Last I checked, it wasn't possible to get any type of business or even personal loan from them. That's a *huge* function of a "bank". They also don't seem to offer any types of "savings ac

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I'm not disagreeing that PayPal is far different from a bank as it doesn't allow Loans, Savings Accounts, etc. The thing is, that it still does provide the basics. It charges interest. It withholds money. It can hold money just like a chequing account.

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Excuse me but, he has a point (if said censorship has actually taken place, of course).

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That's fine and all, except it's false. In your so-called "land of the free", private institutions are NOT allowed to refuse to do business with anyone they please. There's a whole slew of anti-discrimination laws that deal with that. I would guess it is f

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No, you *can* refuse to do business with anyone you please. You just *can't* do it because they're part of a particular group, i.e. female, over 50, white, christian etc. Refusing to do business because they're being rude to your staff is fine be they blac

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I thought Malcom X was dead.

I thought a company still had a right to determine who their clients were as long as it wasn't based on race. If a company wants to ban a group because they promote hate, isn't that their right. Imagine is a Jewish guy owned P

Re:i've had no trouble with paypal

Up until 2 weeks ago, I would have said the same thing. I've used Paypal for about 4 years, bought/sold hundreds of items on eBay, paying exclusively through Paypal. I even had the debit card, which I used to take advantage of their cash-back for Visa purchases.

In July, I sold an item on eBay, got paid for it, life went on. Second week of September, I get an email from Paypal saying that they had reason to believe this item was paid for with fraudulent funds, and asked me to provide tracking info, etc., for the item sold. I did, gave them everything they asked for.

Two weeks later, I get another email from them, stating:
"We have conducted a review of a payment that you received. In this case, returning the funds to the sender was determined to be the appropriate action, and we have completed a reversal of the payment. Good selling practices, like trackable shipping, prompt shipment, and communication between buyer and seller help prevent disputes."

Huh? I provided them with a tracking number, delivery was confirmed, item was shipped the same day payment was received. I contacted the buyer (this person has purchased multiple items from me, I have no reason to not trust them), asked them if they knew anything more than I did. They have not received any refund from Paypal, and in fact didn't even know there was a problem.

So, who was my money "returned" to? Repeated emails to Paypal have been ignored, so I've closed my account, I'll never use Paypal again.