Desire2Learn Fights eLearning Patent

Nordelius writes "Desire2Learn has responded to the patent infringement claim (PDF) cited by Blackboard Inc. regarding eLearning systems. They have argued that Blackboard was negligent in not submitting details of prior art with their patent application, and further alleged that the material described by the patent was documented in 1998 (PDF) by a collaborative international organization, IMSprogram.org, which was actually working with Blackboard at the time."

That PDF is long

Defendant Desire2Learn Inc. ("Desire2Learn") hereby responds to the Complaint filed by Plaintiffs Blackboard Inc. ("Blackboard") as follows. Unless specifically admitted, all allegations in the complaint are denied:

I stopped reading after the first parag

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Then perhaps you should have kept reading. The only thing they "admit" is they are, indeed, an Ontario Corporation.

2. Upon information and belief, defendant Desire2Learn ("D2L") is and has been a corporation organized under the laws of Canada, having it

Patent the wheel

Fact just because you were the first to patent the wheel does not mean you invented it. STOP trying to sue everyone for using it.

Re:Patent the wheel

Hey asshole -- I didn't patent a "wheel". I patented a "rotary device for facilitation of translational motion". That's totally different.

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Hey, a wheel looks like a zero - as in 'ones and zeroes' - and as we all well know, SCO owns the rights on many combinations of those, so bend over - here come the lawyers.

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hmmm. I think that you must prove that you invented something in order to patent it...

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You must be new here...

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hmmm. I think that you must prove that you invented something in order to patent it...

I don't think so...you merely have to prove the product is novel (not identical to another invention), non-obvious (must meet a certain level of difference from a simila

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With the flood of patent applications coming in from everyone, patentability checking is a thing of the past. Here [unimaas.nl] is a brief description of some such patents. There are patents on obvious ideas, non-trivial ideas, previously-implemented ideas, etc.

You d

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Um no you don't have to prove anything a nice case in point is this guy trying to patent a moist towel dispenser just by adding a ridge to it..... http://www.inventorhome.com/inventions/Weekly/Week lySm.asp?PatNo=6889867&MaxPg=9&ClasNo=221/33/ [inventorhome.com]

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This is an improvement patent, not an original product patent. The moist towel dispenser guy merely had to prove that his "improvement" was actually a useful addition to the originally patented invention.

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_The_ thing that I have against patents is that they grant a monopoly not to people who invent something, but to people who patent it. If someone else _independently_ discovers the same thing, the patent prevents them from using it (at least, without payin

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It is a sad thought, but the patent application process should make it difficult for so-called "patent hunters" (people who search for unpatented products in order that they might try to patent in order to receieve exclusive rights to make, use, sell, offe

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``It is a sad thought, but the patent application process should make it difficult for so-called "patent hunters" (people who search for unpatented products in order that they might try to patent in order to receieve exclusive rights to make, use, sell, of

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Sometimes I can't figure out what people are trying to say on here.

``Additionally patents on a product last either 20 years (for utility and plant patents), or 14 years (for design patents). Very rarely does an invention stay valid for this long, with no

Oh, these silly companies and their patents

When will they learn?




...crickets...

Good grief!

Here's the abstract of the patent [uspto.gov] in question:

A system and methods for implementing education online by providing institutions with the means for allowing the creation of courses to be taken by students online, the courses including assignments, announc

A Recent BlackBoard User

I just wrapped up a degree and I took a handful of classes online (mostly ones I didn't actually care about learning in as I have found most online classes to be almost humorous in their education value). And I have to say, BlackBoard is a decent web appli

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Try using BlackBoard as an instructor. The layout is cluttered and terrible, and some key functionality is buried. Tech-saavy instructors don't have a problem with probing and clicking until they find the right control, but this is used by all sorts of p

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If you think BlackBoard is bad, you should see CLEGA! CLEGA makes Black Board look like a golden app.

My apologies If I have offended any online instructors as well. Although, there are a good number of online instructors who aught to to be offended. I went

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From the point of view of a university lecturer: agreed.

Incidentally, precisely because of this suit I've foresworn the use of Blackboard for a course I'm going to be teaching over the summer. Instead I'll be using good old fashioned WWW pages in conjunct

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Fair dig. My first online classes I believe were "Multicultural studies" and "Public Relations". MCS turned into yet another "How the white Anglo-Saxon male has ruined the world" class. Public Relations I had high hopes for though. The class sucked. Expect

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aren't patents supposed to be for things that are "non-obvious"?

you must be new here... Still, jokes asside, it is stupid; obvious, overly broad and has existed pretty much since the internet began. Basically this is passing knowledge around (as it ha

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Heh... kinda like the fortune cookie "...in bed" thing makes everything funny right?

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Well, WebCT was doing all of this in '95 or '96 IIRC, so there's the prior art. Of course, WebCT just got purchased by blackboard ....

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I was an intern at Desire2Learn and I know the whole dev, qa team and I still talk a few on msn. So I'm particularly outraged at this patent. It makes no sense and the claims that they make that they're just looking for getting some payment for what they'

Prospecting in the idea space

Sooner or later (preferably sooner) we need a public, open forum for idea submission, to serve as a massive clearinghouse full of what will one day be "prior art" in the public domain. Today, the most basic abstract entities and processes (e.g. OneClick) c

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Thanks for the offer... I will do that. You can reach me at paul + smith + 68; same domain as your own.

The Patent Card

When a company patents a solution provided piece of software, I view this as a realization that their software ( and profits ) are sinking and will never have the versatility or affordability of other, more useable solutions. So they play the "Patent Card"

Question: any liability?

Other than having the patent revoked, what is the real penalty to filing a blatantly invalid one?

It would seem that there is no incentive not to file for every idea imaginable, if the repercussions are non existent or minimal.

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I'm afraid that Blackboard's motivation may be to grind down D2L financially until D2L can be bought cheap or simply driven from the market. If the tactic works, we'll see more of it. This one is a test case and it's probably a lot cheaper and less risky t

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Disclaimer: Long ago I used to work for Bb. I own Bb stock. I'm rather unhappy with this litigation. :(

Well then, withdraw your proxy's voting rights, attend the next stockholders' meeting, and voice your concerns.

More than "must get money at all costs" co

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It costs a lot of money to file a patent application, which is the only real disincentive not to file tons of applications.

If you file for a patent, knowing its invalid, and your patent issues, your patent can be invalidated for inequitable conduct.

Al

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I've just read the blurb, so don't take this as gospel regarding this specific case.

The allegation that they withheld prior art is in reference to 37 CFR 1.56, the Duty to Disclose information to the patent office. In brief, this means that if you (the a

Learning is fun!

Ah, educators! So noble!

Actually, there *is* a lesson here for all of us, although not the one the evil[TM] lawyers and MBAbees would want us to learn.

Negligent? Hm.

They have argued that Blackboard was negligent in not submitting details of prior art with their patent application

Negligence won't cut it. On the other hand, it appears that they have extensively argued that Blackboard fraudulently withheld prior art during prosecution.

That doesn't mean it will go anywhere. Allegations of inequitable conduct are fairly common by defendants. It's very hard to prove an intent to deceive, though.

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I'm not sure you have to prove intent to decieve. All that needs to be proved is that they knew of a specific piece of prior art and failed to include it in the submission. There is a line you have to sign atesting that you have provided all known prior ar

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What you are describing is a breach of the Duty of Candor and Good Faith. However, that alone is insufficient to render a patent unenforceable. You must also prove that the applicant intended to deceive the USPTO.

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Proving they knew of something and signed the document attesting that to their knowledge there was no additional prior art proves a willful act of deception. Given the fraudulent nature of the filing, it should therefore be invalid. Of course this is big b

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It has nothing to do with "big business." What you're describing simply isn't the law.

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It should the way the law is applied. If I do my taxes & sign that I have no additional income, when in fact I have an entire 2nd job, then I have:

1. Committed purjury - that line states under penalty of purjury.
2. Committed fraud - I knowingly made false

Learning is free

To higher ed faculty who are unaware, Available [nfomedia.org] is a modern day web-app, alternative to BB, et al.

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Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of it. That may be very useful, since I don't have the necessary skills to set up Moodle by myself. In my efforts to boycott Blackboard I had been planning to use open-access WWW pages, supplemented by other facilities, for

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Another alternative to BB is Moodle, http://moodle.org/ [moodle.org]

Umm Cyber llearning was around before 1998

I don't think this could hold. I went to a cyber school that has been operationg since 1995 http://www.stgabrielschool.com/ [stgabrielschool.com] so this "online" learning thing isn't new at least not to me. I did grades 8 - 12 online at home !

Stick it to 'em, D2L!

Ha! If you make it to the very end, you'll find that D2L is counter-suing for five things, amongst which are:

The court dismiss Blackboard's request for relief
The court find the patent unenforceable
The court find the patent invalid
Attorney and legal fees f

Boycott Blackboard Petition

Online learning provider Blackboard, Inc. announced that it has patented the Learning Management System (LMS). Prior art exists in many forms. Please join us in signing the petition below to boycott Blackboard, Inc. for fabricating this ill-conceived and i

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No way!!! Without patents! there will be no!! innovation!!! I mean just look at what we wouldn't have were it not for patents!! Planes, microwave ovens, fast fourier transforms, cheap pharmaceuticals, IPv6. Take eLearning systems. Without patents, there wo

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China does have patents. Otherwise a humorous post.

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So I think this type of education groupware is great. But if this patent means that Blackboard will be the only example of it, then I shudder...

This is exactly the problem with software patents. Parties can claim ownership of entire concepts, and prevent a