HP's Dunn Stepping Down

XJHardware writes "Yahoo news is reporting that Patricia Dunn is stepping down from the chair of HP." From the article: "Hurd will retain his existing positions as chief executive and president and Dunn will remain as a director after she relinquishes the chair on Jan. 18. 'I am taking action to ensure that inappropriate investigative techniques will not be employed again. They have no place in HP,' Hurd said in a statement. Dunn apologized for the techniques used in the company's probe, which included 'pretexting' in which private investigators impersonated board members and journalists to acquire their phone records."

Head of Global Ops Too

[eldavojohn]

This really isn't a surprise if HP wanted to hold together as a company. This damage may be deeper than you think as their Head of Global Operations, Giles Bouchard is leaving [theinquirer.net] by October 31st. It doesn't indicate what his reasons are but he's been working there for two years, why now? Will we see others follow or will Dunn's resignation stop others from jumping ship?

Re:Head of Global Ops Too

[biglig2]

She's remaining a director after scamming the phone records of other directors? Frankly the entire board should go: the crooks should go because they're crooks, and the rest should go because they're crazy to stay on the board of a company that does this sort of thing.

By the way, isn't this sort of thing kind of illegal? Shouldn't people be going to jail?

Re:Head of Global Ops Too

[operagost]

Well, Kevin Mitnick got himself jail time doing this sort of thing. The only difference is that, not being a company insider, he had to start from scratch. When you already have people's SSNs because you are a high-level executive with power or influence over HR, it should be trivial.

Could be radioactive

[mollog]

Good point. If the company supplied the SSN's of the board members to the investigators, I'd expect some criminal action against the company.

Excuse me?

[Travoltus]

A corporate officer? Going to jail? What are you, some kind of communist?

Look what happened the last time we put a corporate officer in jail, he had a heart attack. Your jealousy of the rich & powerful is overwhelmingly hateful in its magnitude.

Won't somebody think of the CEOs, oh the horror of it all!!!

Re:

[jimicus]

It should be criminal for phone co's to even keep these records because of the risk of abuse,

How are they going to send you itemised bills then?

This is why the US needs something like the Data Protection Act. Basically, it is supposed to ensure that the data which companies store is relevant, correct, not kept longer than necessary and only disclosed where appropriate.

It's been blamed by a few companies for doing things wrong in the past, but that's generally because they had lousy policies and hadn't actu

Re:

[fireboy1919]

You mean like this? [hhs.gov]

Your personal info is supposed to be safe in the hands of certain people. Perhaps there need to be more that are held accountable?

Still...maybe it's not enough. You didn't mention this act. Did you even know it existed?

If the populace doesn't know big laws like this there's no way that anyone is going to worry about enforcing them.

Re:

[aevans]

This is why the US needs something like the Data Protection Act. Basically, it is supposed to ensure that the data which companies store is relevant, correct, not kept longer than necessary and only disclosed where appropriate.

"Supposed" being the key word. That's the clipper chip mindset. Back then we were smart enough to think letting the pigs control the means of production was worse than letting the farmers have control, or at least no better. At least the farmers had a stake in it.

If you want record

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Head of Global Ops Too

[spun]

Bullshit. For every CEO jailed to keep the masses appeased, 10 more who did far worse go free. At that level of wealth and power, 90% of the people are sociopaths if not outright psychopaths. You can chant "class warfare rhetoric" with your fingers in your ears all you want, but the fact is, they know the difference, and we simply do not matter to people like that. They screw us over all the time, and when the story breaks, someone has to be sacrificed to appease the masses and keep up the illusion that it's only a "few bad apples" instead of a bushel of rotten worm infested fruit. Class is still an issues, as much as the owning class would like you to believe it isn't. Why do 10% of the people own and control 90% of the resources? Unless you are making over a million a year, you simply have no interests in common with these people, and anyone who defends them or mocks those who speak of class issues is traitor to their own kind, a toading sycophant who hopes that if they talk the owning class talk, they'll be let into the club. The only way your getting into that club is as a busboy.

Re:

[spun]

Bullshit, the rich stole the means of producion (natural resource) from the people, fenced them off, and only then worked them and claimed that working them was justification for stealing them in the first place. Kind of like if I stole a bike, painted it, then claimed it was mine because I had worked on it. They are only more productive because they control more resources. Love the way you gloss over inherited wealth, which is most of it.

Re:

[WhiplashII]

Are you from Europe? If so, that may explain things - in the US, there aren't that many rich families that can just inherit all their wealth to live. It is even considered bad form to leave your kids with enough that they don't have to work - Bill Gates and Warren Buffet being the best known examples.

From a purely economic standpoint, what you describe is not really true in most societies. On average, 80% of the profit gained from an activity goes to the workers. This has been true for as long as we hav

Re:Why do 10% of the people own and control 90%...

[spun]

Estate tax is a good place to start, but I'm an old school anarchist of the Proudhon variety, and I believe that property is theft. Not personal property, but natural resources. There is no justification for fencing off land and taking away other people's freedom to use it. You have to have labored over something before you have a right to call it your own, and you have to own something before you have a right to keep others from using it. Therefore, no one has any justification in holding natural resources as their own.

I have not come up with the perfect solution to this dilemma. As Proudhon also, less famously said, property is also the only real protection against tyranny and is inherently anarchistic because it respects no king or lord. I feel their are two choices, Proudhon's idea of communal control of resources or some form of distributarianism. In communal control there is the plus that the process of deciding on how to use resources is democratic, but without a strong constitution and a system of checks and balances this can lead to a tyranny of the majority. With distributarianism, everyone owns their little portion of the means of production, but who arbitrates this ownership, and how do we ensure that the means are distribuited equitably.

There are many problems with the free market as a system of arbitration. It requires perfect information on the part of all actors to work efficiently. It can not correctly value the costs and benefits of externalities. It does not operate efficiently where the marginal cost of entry into markets is very high (commonly known as a monopoly.) It has no negative feedback cycle to prevent a runaway accumulation of wealth by a few people. The more wealth one has, the easier it is to make more by using your wealth to game the system and ensure their isn't a level playing field. The free market can not think ahead and come up with solutions. It can only say what isn't working, not what might work better, and if what might work better is locked out due to any of the previously mentioned root causes of market failure, we will be stuck with what we have.

We have a system that expects and rewards selfishness. So much so that even though the majority of people have been shown in modern economic experiments to favor fairness and reciprocity over personal gain, they will act selfishly rather than cooperatively because that is what the system rewards. In fact, the system gives free reign to screw over the naturally cooperative (and this is a large part of the reason behind my "bad luck." I'm too nice and too trusting, and I am not willing to sell out that part of myself just to get ahead.)

Remember, your friends, relatives and acquantences are not a random sample of the population. You have probably not met the legions of people for whom the system has not worked, despite their best efforts, so it is no stretch for you to think of those people in the abstract sense, and to believe that they had all the opportunities that you did. It's just easier to think that they are where they are because they are lazy than to feel like you have to change the whole system.

Re:

[spun]

Don't care enough to put a name behind your words? They must not be worth much then.

I'm not talking about giving everyone a free ride, I'm talking about equitable (not equal) access to the means of production. I'm talking about people like Mrs. Hilton, who make up far more of owning class society than you'd like to admit. Working hard doesn't garauntee you shit. Plenty of people work hard and aren't rewarded equitably for it. I just want a level playing field and a fair opportunity. I'm as smart and work as

Re:

[dan828]

Of course, they go to Rich Man's Prison.

You're misinformed. They go to federal "pound me in the ass" prison.

Re:

[spun]

Bullshit. Where's your sources on that? Or do you just like saying "pound me in the ass prison" and daydreaming about all the fun they have there?

Re:

[spun]

Don't know, just using the GP poster's word, 'cause it sounded good. :) I was guessing he meant this definition: Dominant in position or influence; superior. Class mobility is a myth, a bread and circuses game to make everyone think they can be owning class. A rare few people make it, but most that do have to figuratively sell their souls to do so, buying into the owning class ideology lock, stock and barrel.

Give Perkins credit

[mollog]

Perkins quit when he heard about the spying and lying. He held his fire, then he outed Dunn and the board. The company was supposed to disclose why Hackborn quit when he did. And the board should have disclosed the investigation started by Dunn as well as the results of the investigation.

I agree that the rest of the board, including Hackborn, has some responsibility. But how to get rid of them? I usually withhold my votes, but the big institutions usually vote for the boards.

no credit for perkins

[mabhatter654]

Perkins is the reason Dunn had to get the PIs involved. He was head of the board accounting and ethics oversight committee. He sat there while Dunn investigated, tried to get the board to do something and did nothing. He should have been the first board member a year ago to vote the guy out, but instead chose cronyism over the privacy of the boards internal discussions. I've worked for bosses that "tattle" to the rest of the workers on work related, but private matters.. it's no fun, it ruins companies.

Pretexting??

[Harmonious Botch]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned. But in my day we called it 'lying'.

Re:

[mgblst]

This must be some sort of joke. Every single article about this event has gone out of its way to mention pretexting? I smell a conspiracy.

Re:Pretexting??

[Chris Burke]

Well, obviously the name "pretexting" is a lie itself, designed to cover up the uglier truth of "lying". It's all part of marketing corporate-speak, in which negative aspects of what you do are covered up through language trickery, in this case making up a word that nobody knows the meaning of.

I'm rather pleased that they have failed to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, but the fact that the word keeps getting repeated is bothersome. The news outlets should only be using that word in the context of explaining Dunn's lame attempt to cover up for fraud.

Re:

[Zephyros]

Actually, "pretexting" isn't corpspeak, it's legalese. [ftc.gov]

Re:

[siriuskase]

Here's another government website about "pretexting", dated 2001, so we know the "word" has been around awhile. They also put quotes around "identity theft".

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/money/pretextin g/pretexting.htm [gsa.gov]

Re:

[lawpoop]

Here on uber-leet slashdot, we call it 'social engineering'.

Re:Pretexting??

[Himring]

This truly boggles the mind. I work at a large corporation and watch/put up with insanity every day. It seems, at times, that the higher up you go the more insane things are. The old tale of "The Emporer's New Clothes," where insanity leads to a king walking naked down the streets, and only a child can see the truth, applies greatly.

I could write volumes on things that have happened in my career, but this HP debacle takes the cake. And the thing is, they feel entirely in their rights while they were doing it, after they were doing it and on up until they realized that they really had to explain themselves. They are confessing now because they got caught, not because they really felt it to be wrong. Thus are the ills of capitalism.

As a wise man once said: "Capitalism is the notion that evil men, doing evil things, will bring about the greatest good...." Or something to that effect....

Re:Pretexting??

[Pharmboy]

I am pretty sure that Communism had plenty of examples of spying and evil deeds. To assign this purely to the "ills of capitalism" demonstrates you are prejudiced against capitalism in general. My bet is that Ms. Dunn would be just as much of an ass if she were in power in a communist economy.

Capitalism does not require people act unethically, illegally or immorally. My fear is that people like you will simply use this situation to "prove" how capitalism is bad (and why whatever brand of economics you prefer is "right"), rather than understand it for what it is: PEOPLE that are bad, and would be just as bad, in any other economic system.

Another pisser is that by blaming capitalism, you are releasing her from fault, as it is "capitalism" that is at fault, and not an overzealous and unethical person, Ms. Dunn. She shares the blame with no one.

Re:

[Himring]

Me faulting capitalism does not equal me blessing communism. Your logic set is flawed....

Re:

[Pharmboy]

My using Communism as an obvious example does not indicate you prefer it to capitalism. That was made clear when I said " (and why whatever brand of economics you prefer is "right") ".

I have no idea what brand of economics you prefer, but your prejudice against capitalism is obvious, and the point. Logic isn't the issue, prejudice is.

Re:

[Duhavid]

If you cant look at a thing and see the bad and the good,
then what? Is he prejudiced because he sees flaws
in a thing? There are flaws in capitalism. It is the best
thing we have found so far, but there are flaws in it.

Re:

[Pharmboy]

The flaws are not with capitalism, but with the character (or lack thereof) Ms. Dunn. Again, to assign the blame to capitalism is simply saying "It's not her fault, it is capitalisms fault".

Re:

[lewp]

Pointing out a flaw in a system doesn't absolve people who exploit that flaw.

(Of course, I don't really "get" this thread anyway. The motivation to do unscrupulous things for the advancement of one's own agenda exists in any system. The only thing capitalism may have provided was a healthy supply of unscrupulous private investigators.)

Re:

[Duhavid]

I have no doubt that Ms Dunn has character issues.

And she owns that.

Capitalism has a flaw in that it "prefers" ( as an
emergent behaviour ) people without character for high
positions like this. Because those people will do
whatever it takes, regardless of of ethics or legality,
and that makes more money.

Re:

[Pharmboy]

I only have a couple of years on you, but my bitter cynicism is directed toward the government and those who are elected on promises they have no intention of keeping. What give ME faith in capitalism is that it is practiced by everyday people, every day. Most of them are pretty good people, and most people are smart enough to know a bad one when they see them. Dunn is not just a bad Chairman, but a bad person.

Winston Churchill put it best: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of bless

Re:

[Himring]

Nice Churchill quote. Good points you make.

But why mention capitalism?

[Sloppy]

The problem is that you mentioned capitalism, as though you were saying something distinctive about it, or that different economic systems might not have powerful people who think they can get away with being assholes.

Imagine if I went to the zoo and dropped 16-ton weights on all the animals. They all died. Then I said, "The problem with parrots is that they fail to resist a 16-ton weight." It sounds like I'm talking about parrots, but parrots actually have nothing to do with it. The real issue is the

Re:

[Himring]

...

uuaah, my head asplode.

Re:

[gdamore]

Don't get me wrong. I'm a staunch capitalist myself.

But the main difference between capitalism and communism is the difference between an individual working for self gain and an individual working for the greater good.

A true altruist will prefer communism where everybody gets basically equal treatment/salary, etc. But in a real world, communism doesn't work, because there are people like Ms. Dunn, and even people with otherwise good morals are going to work much harder for their own self-gain than for som

It has nothing to do with capitalism

[Colin Smith]

Thus are the ills of capitalism.

As a wise man once said: "Capitalism is the notion that evil men, doing evil things, will bring about the greatest good...." Or something to that effect....

Whoever said that was a fool, not a wise man. Capitalism has never been anything to do with right, wrong, good or evil, it's about self interest. It's human nature and will happen no matter what type of society we have. What do you propose as an alternative?

 

Capitalism is not relevant to the discussion

[Colin Smith]

Sure, such actions could occur under other philosophies; the point is that capitalism provides no disincentive for this behavior.

What? This isn't anything to do with capitalism, it's the political system and the law.

So what's your suggestion to replace capitalism, because it's going to have to force people to part with their goods and services somehow.

 

Re:

[Chacham]

It seems, at times, that the higher up you go the more insane things are.

They are not insane. They are smart. It's the sort of thing we common folk could not possibly understand.

Re:

[Snarfangel]

Bah, that's not old-fashioned. In my day, we called it terminological inexactitude.

Re:Pretexting??

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I'd go for "identity theft", personally. It's pretty accurate, but also sounds like Something We Should Fear(TM), as opposed to "pretexting", which sounds Naughty But Only A Little Bit(TM).

Re:

[siriuskase]

"Pretexting" [gsa.gov] is lying for the purpose of identity theft. So, it is a more precise term for what happened, at least for those who know what it means. And it is illegal, unlike many other forms of lying.

From the linked gsa.gov website:

Under a new federal law - the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act - it's illegal for anyone to:

use false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or documents to get customer information from a financial institution or directly from a customer of a financial institution.

use forged, counterfeit

Pretexting

[TheRecklessWanderer]

So calling the phone company and pretending to be somebody else to get their records is called Pretexting??? I kinda thought that was called fraud. As for Dunn stepping down, the buck stops here, and if she can't keep control of her ship, then she would step down. Of course, it's probably a case of Nixonitis, i.e. everybody does it, but HP got caught.

Re:Pretexting

[CerebusUS]

Step down? Shouldn't someone go to jail for this? I agree it's fraud, let's treat it as such.

Re:

[AJWM]

It's not fraud. For it to be fraud, money (or equivalent negotiable assets) has to have been acquired through the deception. In this case, the intent of the deceit was to obtain information, not cash.

Historically you can claim to be anybody you like, so long as it is not with intent to defraud (or hamper a police investigation). Historically, "pretexting" hasn't even been illegal -- laws against it are only on the books in a couple of states and are fairly new. PI's and "investigative journalists", amo

Re:

[timeOday]

Really? So you think some rank & file at HP could lie their way to get access corporate email accounts and still keep their job after being caught? Honestly, I would be surprised if they got away with no more than being fired. But Dunn wasn't even fired.

Re:

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

So calling the phone company and pretending to be somebody else to get their records is called Pretexting??? I kinda thought that was called fraud.

Or as another poster said, "lying". Or as I thought, "falsely impersonating another", although mine is a bit wordy. Apparently most of us seemed to think the English language already had this one covered, but for some reason the idiodic press thought it was really cool and neat to invent a new word nobody would understand. Or perhaps this word "pretexting" c

Re:

[blincoln]

but for some reason the idiodic press thought it was really cool and neat to invent a new word nobody would understand.

When I first saw it, I figured it was a reference to sending a text message to someone in advance of an actual phone call or in-person meeting - a sort of "super-humanal communication," or possibly Pre-Crime officers SMSing each other about an imminent murder.

There ought to be a law!

[Fishstick]

but for some reason the idiodic press thought it was really cool and neat to invent a new word nobody would understand

close, the idiotic federal government apparently thought it needed an important sounding new word

There ought to be a law... There is! [ftc.gov]

Pretexting: Your Personal Information Revealed

When you think of your own personal assets, chances are your home, car, and savings and investments come to mind. But what about your Social Security number (SSN), telephone records and your bank and credit card account numbers? To people known as "pretexters," that information is a personal asset, too.

Pretexting is the practice of getting your personal information under false pretenses. Pretexters sell your information to people who may use it to get credit in your name, steal your assets, or to investigate or sue you. Pretexting is against the law.

How Pretexting Works
Pretexters use a variety of tactics to get your personal information. For example, a pretexter may call, claim he's from a survey firm, and ask you a few questions. When the pretexter has the information he wants, he uses it to call your financial institution. He pretends to be you or someone with authorized access to your account. He might claim that he's forgotten his checkbook and needs information about his account. In this way, the pretexter may be able to obtain personal information about you such as your SSN, bank and credit card account numbers, information in your credit report, and the existence and size of your savings and investment portfolios.

Keep in mind that some information about you may be a matter of public record, such as whether you own a home, pay your real estate taxes, or have ever filed for bankruptcy. It is not pretexting for another person to collect this kind of information.

There Ought to Be a Law -- There Is
Under federal law -- the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act -- it's illegal for anyone to:

        * use false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or documents to get customer information from a financial institution or directly from a customer of a financial institution.
        * use forged, counterfeit, lost, or stolen documents to get customer information from a financial institution or directly from a customer of a financial institution.
        * ask another person to get someone else's customer information using false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or using false, fictitious or fraudulent documents or forged, counterfeit, lost, or stolen documents.

The Federal Trade Commission Act also generally prohibits pretexting for sensitive consumer information.

MOD UP!

[PetriBORG]

If only I had points...

HP Boise

[WED Fan]

I left HP, Boise during the disaster that was Carly.

Her "I-came-up-from-the-mailroom" speech was enough to make most in the Departmental LaserJet Division to wretch. But, at least she didn't go all Richard Nixon on everyone and send out eaves-dropping goon squads.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Her "I-came-up-from-the-mailroom" speech

Is that speech listed on this page [hp.com]? I'd be interested in knowing which one it was.

No Big Surprise

[onkelonkel]

When you hit the cover of Newsweek as a shining example of corporate misbehaviour, it's safe to say your days are numbered.

Re:No Big Surprise

[Pharmboy]

When you hit the cover of Newsweek as a shining example of corporate misbehaviour, it's safe to say your days are numbered.

Two words: Book Deal

This is America, where we celebrate those that do wrong and actually had to make a LAW that says if you murder or rape someone, you can't make money off any books/tv deals (but other crimes, and it's ok). Think about that, that means that people will buy books written by these criminals, and make the criminals potentially RICH, if you don't make it illegal. Might even get a "made for TV movie" out of it.

Re:

[utlemming]

Well, then again the Justice department announced today that they are getting their fingers in to pie. Seems like Dunn doesn't have to worry about just California, but now the Feds.

Re:

[jimicus]

Unless enough people are seriously hurt (and as far as I can tell, apart from the gross invasion of privacy and breach of lots of laws, nobody has lost their life savings or been killed), I can't see the Justice Department handing out anything more than a token punishment.

Re:

[Mr. Hankey]

apart from the gross invasion of privacy and breach of lots of laws

Isn't that enough? I fail to see why willful breach of a lot of laws isn't grounds for punishment. I would personally hope that gross invasion of privacy would be punishable as well. Hopefully the aggregate punishments would lead to jail time. The court system is being used to punish file sharers, let's make sure it gets around to the people who illegally spy on their peers as well. If I'm having to pay for this with my taxes, some good

Someone Stop Me!

[blueZhift]

I am taking action to ensure that inappropriate investigative techniques will not be employed again. They have no place in HP

Urr, isn't this just stating the obvious since she's the one responsible for the inappropriate techniques in the first place. Or at least, she signed off on them in some fashion. Isn't this a little like a thief retiring from thievery so that no more robberies will be committed?

Re:

[blueZhift]

Apologies! My bad. Perhaps I should step down so that...nah, been done already. Sorry about that.

Dunn will remain as a directo

[cerberusss]

FTA: (emphasis mine)

Hewlett-Packard Co. said Tuesday that Patricia Dunn will step down as chairwoman of the computer and printer maker in January amid a widening scandal involving a possibly illegal probe into media leaks. She will be succeeded by CEO Mark Hurd. Hurd will retain his existing positions as chief executive and president and Dunn will remain as a director.

Strange. So she knew about illegal practices being carried out because of her request, and then continues to have a seat??

Why is it that I get a visit from the police when I do some good ole' social engineering and get caught? And this woman gets a seat as a director?

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[cerberusss]

But they will make her stay so much hell (keeping he missinformed, talking behind her back, things that would be considered harrasement but hard to prove in court) that after 2-3 months she'll want to leave.

Heh yeah, or something like 'more time for the family' or something.

Re:

[rubycodez]

not to worry, the party's just getting started, the california AG and the U.S. congress and AG are starting to look into this, so Dunn may be in for more slow-roasting on the spit.

Re:

[dr_d_19]

Why is it that I get a visit from the police when I do some good ole' social engineering and get caught? And this woman gets a seat as a director?

Ehem, because you didn't apologize! And, well, that and being influential and well connected helps you get of the hook. A little apology and thing is forgotten, no prosecution needed!

Re:

[saleenS281]

Because she wasn't socially engineering her way into the cheif's daughters pants?

Because she paid you to fall.

[twitter]

Why is it that I get a visit from the police when I do some good ole' social engineering and get caught? And this woman gets a seat as a director?

She disclosed their social security numbers and other info but did not commit the fraud herself and claims ignorance. We'll see what the AG does about that but the fall guy "investigator" will be nailed. When someone asks you to do something wrong, just say no.

Re:

[cerberusss]

You might think otherwise, but there's clearly no admission here that she knew they were illegal actions.

Actually, there is. According to this article [yahoo.com]:

HP director Tom Perkins, resigned from the board in May in protest of the investigators' tactics.

I'm as much against trial-by-media as you are, but in this case the woman is wrong-wrong-wrong and IMHO should be charged. I'm sick and tired of this cut-throat, half-ethical way of doing business.

They had to toss her overboard

[wiredog]

It's badPR when your CEO gets arrested for wire fraud...

Re:

[operagost]

She's not the CEO. She's the chairman. Hurd is the CEO. At HP the responsibilites for those two offices are divided.

Re:

[dfghjk]

The CEO reports to the board of directors, of which the chairman is lead member. Disturbing, eh?

I guess...

[chriswaclawik]

I guess you can say his time at HP is... DUNN for! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... sigh.

Simple way to end Pretexting

[hrieke]

Have the phone companies, or any other company that deals with customer's sensitive data is to mail the report to the person's mailing address along with a letter saying that you asked for this data to be sent, from a phone call on this date, from such-n-such phone number.
They should then refuse, 100% to fax or email the information out.
Change of address? Certainly, after we send out a letter confirming your address change.

Just like when I change my address (or do anything else) with my 401(k), IRAs, and b

Hooray!

[Captain Sarcastic]

At least she did the right thing there.

I don't know if it was a King Richard II thing ("Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?") or if it was a cold-blooded decision ("Commander, tear this ship apart, and bring me the passengers... ahem, I mean, dig up anything and everything you can on whoever seems a likely target."), but either way there was no way that HP could have kept any customer or shareholder faith with her remaining at the helm.

What I find interesting is that the Justice department is checking this "pretexting" business out. Are they interested in prosecuting it... or duplicating it?

Re:

[AceCaseOR]

I don't know if it was a King Richard II thing ("Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?")

It's Henry II, but you've got the quote right.

What I find interesting is that the Justice department is checking this "pretexting" business out. Are they interested in prosecuting it... or duplicating it?

I doubt it's duplication. They can easily get access to this information anyway with a warrant (and, with the Patriot Act, possibly without a warrant).

Re:

[Captain Sarcastic]

Well, then at least I seem to have gotten the other quote right!

Screw That

[N8F8]

At least the slimy mofo George Keyworth who was blabbing to the press got his name slimed.

What did Keyworth really do?

[twitter]

At least the slimy mofo George Keyworth who was blabbing to the press got his name slimed.

I'd love to know just what he "leaked" and why you hate him for doing it. The nearest I can tell from reading the Wikipedia, the "leak" was about Fiorina's $42,000,000 severance package which has two HP investors suing HP for violating their own payment caps. If that's all there is, Keyworth is a whistle blower. If you know something, I'd love to hear it.

Some much for an independent board

[mre5565]

The CEO is now the chairman of the board. While
Hurd was probably exasperated, and rightly felt
he had to take the reigns to prevent further
damage to his company, the post-Enron concept
of an independent board has just taken a big
step backward. In the long run this is bad
for shareholders (not just HP shareholders).

Re:

[dfghjk]

Michael Dell as well. No one was complaining about Dell's stock performance.

Re:

[fuzzybunny]

True, however the implementation of the current system is flawed in a number of ways:

-It effectively removes influence on all but a few major/institutional shareholders--if you own, say, 5,000 shares of company X, good luck having a say in getting incompetent/corrupt members of a board off
-Boards are rarely as independent in practice as they are in theory (i.e. executive bonuses are usually approved with little discussion)
-It's still too easy for people to serve on multiple boards and be subject to major co

Now ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunn: "Now, just give me my 'agreed-upon compensation that will pay the salary for 100 people over a lifetime' and I'll be gone."

I, for one, welcome ...

[njchick]

... our new UNIX-replacing daemon [gnu.org] overlords!

Another example of the "Old Boy's Network"

[Anonymous Coward]

crushing a woman simply because she is powerful. Well, and amoral. Illegal, too.

Anyway, it's just the establishment putting someone down just because they are female and criminal.

Re:

[dfghjk]

No need to attach her gender to the issue. Criminal is enough.

Curiously, I've always felt that board members were inherently criminal ;-) For the most part, board member seats are used to gain inside access to politics and favor within other large corporations. It's scary to see just how interconnected boards really are.

High Crimes

[Doc Ruby]

Enough of this "pretexting" mumbo jumbo. It's "lying", fraud. Just because an exec does it doesn't require a euphamism to protect them from punishment like a mere human would get. They're not royalty who must be referred to with a "royal we" or "your highness". Their problems aren't "issues".

They're criminals. If anything, their crimes are worse, because they have more power and do more damage, while requiring more trust.

I find it offensive

[tkrotchko]

I find out that people won't calling what they did by the proper name:
      LYING

Pretexting? It sounds so much nicer, like what a kid would do to talk to their friends on a cell phone. And I blame the press for buying into it and reporting it rather than saying "Patricia Dunn lied to the phone company to fraudulently obtain phone records".

Re:

[funwithBSD]

True, true. The PC crap has got to stop. It was "lying". Period. Kinda waiting for the "I am not a crook" and "You won't have Dunn to kick around anymore" speaches.

But then, I am still waiting for the AP and Reuters to call the terrorists "terrorists". Not insurgents, not resistance fighters, not even "opposition forces". No, when they target exclusively civilian targets with the intention of maximizing civilian deaths... they are terrorists.

Re:

[Bob_Villa]

Same thing with used cars. They are all called pre-owned now. "Look at our beautiful pre-owned Lexus cars, better than new"

No they aren't, they are USED!!

If you look at the root, wouldn't pre-owned mean "before owned"

Terrible pun...

[Yuioup]

So maybe now GNU/Hurd will finally be Dunn...

Y

Fine, now that that's settled...

[merc]

Does anyone know whether Steve Balmer ever engaged in pretexting?

Ballmer's pretexting transcript

[Dystopian Rebel]

[telephone rings]

"Hello?"

"Hello, this is Sergei Brin, owner of Google."

"Why, hello Mr Brin. What a surprise! I just had an interview with Google. I thought it went well, but those were some tough questions!"

"Yes. Er... Look, I am calling to let you know personally that Google is a terrible place to work."

"It is?"

"Yes... um... The 'Do No Evil' slogan is nonsense. We do plenty of evil."

"Really?"

"Oh yes. Evil like you can't believe. And, um, we're not nearly as visionary as the people at Microsoft. Have you ev

Serves her right

[HangingChad]

Ha-ha! [/nelson]

Two issues

[zippthorne]

There are TWO issues here, and I fear that one of them is being overshadowed by the other. It is not at all clear that they are unequal in magnitude, at least from the point of view of a HP shareholder, or even a board member.

One of the members of the board was leaking company information, and in a way that exposes HP to punitive action by the SEC.

Leaking a company's moral wrongdoings (whistleblowing) is one thing -- a valuable service to all stakeholders, but leaks that expose corporate strategy to compet

Re:

[Volante3192]

HP is going to be roiled hard over this when the state and feds get done. there will be new law, and pretexting is going to be outlawed. HP is going to stain like a cheap rug when Congress is done with them.

Cause Sony's sure hurting after pissing off the DoD with those rootkits...

Sad but true, give this 6 months, who's going to remember Pattie Dunn's little wiretapping? They'll go back to making their subpar consumer printers and whatnot and keep chugging along.

Re:deck chairs on the titanic, nothing changed

[scardicat]

As a former employee of HP, I must agree. Today's HP is a far cry from the ethical 'roots in the garage' company I once used to be proud of. They fire workers who get anything done and keep the filth - it must be stinking up there now. I am watching with tears in my eyes, as Hurd and his band are tearing up the legacy of Bill and Dave. Bill and Dave must be rolling in their graves. May their souls rest in peace. HP still has some great engineers, but it wont be long before they all get booted out. From a company of engineers in overalls building amazing products, its turning into a place with PHBs in suits. RIP HP. scardicat

Re:deck chairs on the titanic, nothing changed

[$RANDOMLUSER]

I know just what you mean. I remember years ago when the HP Field Service guys would come out, it was like a visit from the Federal Marshals they were so not fucking around. Those guys could glance at a hex error code on an LCD and tell you (from memory) that SIMM #5 had failed, or tell you that CPU #3 had failed by the taste of the dust on top of the cabinet. Then they'd go out to their trunk and get a new CPU card for your T500 or 847 or whatever because they remembered which model you had and brought one along "just in case"...

Those days started to die with Lou Platt; Carly killed and buried them; the current crop of clowns are just dancing on their grave.

Re:

[Himring]

100% Overrated

/Forgive-off-topic

To the person who wasted an admin point on that post: please read the instructions on mod points. There are plenty of good posts in this thread for you to push up instead of wasting one on a post that wasn't meant to be that big a deal anyhow. Seriously, why?

When I have mod points, and when I use them, I always go to older news articles in the same day, browse for good posts that made it late into the thread, and try to push them up. I think that better fits the i

pick the right one, that doesn't happen.

[swschrad]

moral: don't pick your women in a bar... or through an executive recruiter.