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Pirate Party Launches Commercial Darknet

Posted by CowboyNeal on Tue Aug 15, 2006 01:42 AM
from the nothing-to-see-here dept.
CrystalFalcon writes "The Swedish Pirate Party has launched a commercial, high-capacity darknet, on an unprecedented scale and bandwidth. This service lets anybody send and receive files anonymously without being tracked or traced. 'There are many legitimate reasons to want to be completely anonymous on the Internet,' says Rickard Falkvinge, chairman of the Pirate Party. 'If the government can check everything each citizen does, nobody can keep the government in check.'"
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  • Rock On Dude (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:45AM (#15908522)
    The nightmare of the *AA and my pipe dream. When's it coming to the states and where do I sign up?
  • Net Neutrality (Score:3, Insightful)

    by comrade k (787383) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `kedarmoc'> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:46AM (#15908527)
    I think this is an awesome idea, but how will it work with the looming lack of net neutrality?
    • Re:Net Neutrality (Score:4, Insightful)

      by frosty_tsm (933163) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:51AM (#15908546)
      It's in Sweden. Net Neutrality doesn't directly affect it.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Net Neutrality by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:03AM
        • Re:Net Neutrality by Tim C (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:28AM
        • Some definitions... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Analogy Man (601298) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:01AM (#15909521)
          Democratic: Representative government where the people have free access to information about the government and the goverments access to information about citizens has checks and balances.

          Authoritarian: Government based on manipulation of power where access to government information is limited and access to citizen information by government is unfettered.

          Ask yourself which direction the US government is heading.

          [ Parent ]
      • Re:Net Neutrality by oKtosiTe (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:47AM
      • Re:Net Neutrality (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mr_mischief (456295) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:23AM (#15909995)
        (Last Journal: Thursday April 19 2007, @10:15PM)
        Not outside the US, no.

        Inside the US, though, the customers of large US telecom companies may be firewalled off from the service by the very people they are paying for Net access. If not that, they may be slowdd to a trickle of traffic.

        If I was paying for access to "The Internet", and my service provider wasn't giving me access to everything I could legally access, then I'd be getting ripped off, wouldn't I?

        So for the rest of the world US net neutrality laws don't matter so much. For those of us in the US, they matter a great deal, even when the traffic starts overseas.

        [ Parent ]
      • Without net neutrality, by empaler (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:25PM
    • Re:Net Neutrality (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:59AM (#15908564)
      As far as I understand the "lack of net neutrality" would only effect US* users of the aforementioned darknet. AFAIK for networks outside the US the net remains neutral**

      *Yes yes I know or packets traversing across a US network segment.
      **Neutral until the Telco's lobby the US administration to reign in them darn foreigners. After all its their divine right to extort money from those who have made a successful internet business.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Net Neutrality by Chris whatever (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:39AM
      • Re:Net Neutrality (Score:5, Insightful)

        It's not an awesome idea because as much as it has it's good use there is also the darker side with pedophile, snuff and other crap that should not be tolerated.

        Snuff films are not real [snopes.com]. And the problem with pedophilia isn't the transmission of images of the sexual abuse of children, it's when actual sexual abuse of children goes on.

        Freedom has risks. If you have free elections, the "wrong" guys might win. If you have secure communications, "terrorists" might use them to make plans. If you have the right to keep and bear arms, "bad guys" may have guns.

        But if you believe in freedom, you're very very wary of the state getting to define who the "wrong" guys, the "terrorists", the "bad guys", are. Consider that Martin Luther King Jr. was a target of COINTELPRO; consider Nixon's "enemies list"; consider the Fugitive Slave Act, the Dredd Scott decision, the Alien and Sedition acts, the Red Scares, the concentration camps for Japanese Americans...

        you cant have a place where you can bend the rules forever, that's anarchy!

        And? "Anarchy" means no ruling hierarchy. Some people think that's a good idea [blackened.net], especially when it comes to communication. As Robert Anton Wilson put it [rawilson.com], "A monopoly on the means of communication may define a ruling elite more precisely than the celebrated Marxian formula of `monopoly in the means of production.' Since man extends his nervous system though channels of communication like the written word, the telephone, radio, etc., he who controls these media controls part of the nervous system of every member of society. The contents of these media become part of the contents of every individual's brain."

        [ Parent ]
      • Dark Side of Humanity. by twitter (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:15AM
      • Re:Net Neutrality by J.R. Random (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:59PM
    • Could resurrect net neutrality? by Mateo_LeFou (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:05AM
    • Re:Net Neutrality by Jeff DeMaagd (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:06AM
    • Re:Net Neutrality by skink1100 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:27PM
  • Important note... (Score:3, Informative)

    by RyanFenton (230700) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:46AM (#15908528)
    ...The cost of the service is 5 euros per month,...

    It looks like it is at least a quasi-commercial darknet.

    Ryan Fenton
  • Ahem (Score:2)

    by Umbral Blot (737704) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:47AM (#15908535)
    (http://onphilosophy.wordpress.com/)
    And how is this different from Tor or Freenet?
    • Re:Ahem (Score:5, Informative)

      by Raul654 (453029) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:49AM (#15908540)
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Raul654)
      Tor has three intermediate hops between you and the destination; this only has one - so you get lower latency. Also, with Tor, your download speed is the minimum of the 4 intermediate connections' bandwidths. If one of those people happens to be a dial up user, you will be getting dial-up speeds.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Ahem (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Canordis (826884) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:44AM (#15908686)

        Although this is better for speed, isn't it bad for anonimity? Traffic that has been over four hosts is harder to trace back than traffic that has hopped over a single host.

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Ahem by ichigo 2.0 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:19AM
        • Re:Ahem (Score:4, Insightful)

          If you're in that much trouble that they NEED to find you, believe Me, they will find you. Be it 1 hop, or 4 hops, it doesn't matter. Sure, I'd rather trust a Sweedish company for my sense of peace rather than Tor. At least you know where your hops are going with this. With Tor, it's a good idea, but what if the governemnt was running massive tor routers, sniffing packets from whatever comes across their electronic doorstep? You see, that is the weakness of Tor, besides it's speed. You need a trusted source to begin with. If you don't, it will auto-build the network as time goes on as it finds a node. But still, if one of those nodes are packet-sniffing everything, then all is for naught. Either way, if anything 'bad' happens to you, you'll still be just as screwed, but hey, at least you'll have more bandwith and less latentcy.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Ahem by Ph33r th3 g(O)at (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:48AM
            • Re:Ahem by Valdrax (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:16PM
          • Re:Ahem by John.Thompson (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:27AM
        • Re:Ahem (Score:5, Informative)

          by paulmac84 (682014) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:10AM (#15909019)
          (http://www.paulmc.org/whatithink/)
          This is what they're saying on their website [relakks.com]:

          RELAKKS is a company incorporated in Sweden. The service is basically a Swedish broadband subscription offered over the Internet. This means that the legal framework mainly consists of the The Electronic Communications Act 2003 389. What will this mean if:

          Swedish authorities or,
          Other organization or individuals demands access to information protected by RELAKKS?

          RELAKKS Safe Surf enjoys the strongest legal protection possible under Swedish Law because of the service type (pre-paid flat-rate service). This means that RELAKKS do not have to keep an ordinary customer database (to be able handle transactions etc.). This is of importance if forced to hand over information.

          If Swedish authorities can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they have a case for demanding subscription information from RELAKKS (they have to be of the opinion that if convicted the user will be imprisoned fined not enough). .

          RELAKKS then have to hand over the subscription information entered by you (but thats all). RELAKKS do not store any subscribtion information about you except what you entered yourself when signing up for the RELAKKS Safe Surf service.

          For Swedish authorities to force RELAKKS to hand over traffic data including your RELAKKS IP at a specific point in time, they will have to prove a case with the minimum sentence of two years imprisonment.

          Regarding inquires from other parties than Swedish authorities RELAKKS will never turn over any kind of information.

          So as long as the Swedish government can prove beforehand that you will be convicted, then they'll hand over the data, otherwise it's no-go. And as for non-Swedish authorities, Relakks say they won't give them anything.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Ahem by muffen (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:15AM
          • Re:Ahem (Score:4, Informative)

            by hweimer (709734) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:03AM (#15909541)
            (http://www.osreviews.net/)
            So as long as the Swedish government can prove beforehand that you will be convicted, then they'll hand over the data, otherwise it's no-go. And as for non-Swedish authorities, Relakks say they won't give them anything.

            Except that Swedish authorities are known [wikinews.org] to violate the law if they like it.
            [ Parent ]
            • Re:Ahem by paulmac84 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:38AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:Ahem by Dread_ed (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:28AM
          • Re:Ahem by Brother Dysk (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:45PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Ahem by the_REAL_sam (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @11:02AM
        • Re:Ahem by Raul654 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @11:20AM
          • Re:Ahem by the_REAL_sam (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:17PM
          • Re:Ahem by the_REAL_sam (Score:2) Monday August 28 2006, @11:40PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • swedish ip's (Score:5, Funny)

    by viniosity (592905) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:48AM (#15908538)
    (http://www.urbanpuddle.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday April 02 2006, @10:31PM)

    Basically, this gives users the advantage of a Swedish IP address from anywhere in the world.

    That's what I call massaging the numbers!

    (Unfortunately,) I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your waiter.
  • Question? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cherita Chen (936355) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:48AM (#15908539)
    (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1066346/)
    If it is commercial, couldn't the company' records be subpoenaed (in a worst case scenario) by state/local/etc authorities? If so, I would think that would spell even worse trouble for a user.
    • Re:Question? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kickedfortrolling (952486) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:50AM (#15908544)
      I think part of the point is that sweedish law gives much higher burdens of proof for requesting such info. TFA gives some interesting (but maybe unreliable given US law's recent incursions) info about the law they rely on
      [ Parent ]
      • Read The FAQ (Score:5, Informative)

        by tmk (712144) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:30AM (#15908640)
        Short version: They keep only records who is customer, not about his traffic. https://www.relakks.com/faq/legal/ [relakks.com]

        Legal

        RELAKKS is a company incorporated in Sweden. The service is basically a Swedish broadband subscription offered over the Internet. This means that the legal framework mainly consists of the The Electronic Communications Act 2003 389. What will this mean if:

        Swedish authorities or,
        Other organization or individuals demands access to information protected by RELAKKS?


        RELAKKS Safe Surf enjoys the strongest legal protection possible under Swedish Law because of the service type (pre-paid flat-rate service). This means that RELAKKS do not have to keep an ordinary customer database (to be able handle transactions etc.). This is of importance if forced to hand over information.

        If Swedish authorities can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they have a case for demanding subscription information from RELAKKS (they have to be of the opinion that if convicted the user will be imprisoned - fined not enough). .

        RELAKKS then have to hand over the subscription information entered by you (but that's all). RELAKKS do not store any subscribtion information about you except what you entered yourself when signing up for the RELAKKS Safe Surf service.

        For Swedish authorities to force RELAKKS to hand over "traffic data" including your RELAKKS IP at a specific point in time, they will have to prove a case with the minimum sentence of two years imprisonment.

        Regarding inquires from other parties than Swedish authorities RELAKKS will never turn over any kind of information.

        The combination Swedish high-tech encryption and the strongest legal protection give you true access to Internet, safer and speedier then ever before.

        For more information about Swedish Telecom Law: The Electronic Communications Act 2003:389
        [ Parent ]
    • Records? We don't keep no stinking records! by WalksOnDirt (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:57AM
    • Re:Question? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Alpha830RulZ (939527) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:58AM (#15908557)
      Quite possibly, but the facts that its: 1) a different country, with a separate legal system that seems to deliver what the US constitution promises 2) A European Union country, which has demonstrated a much less media industry friendly policy and 3) a different judicial system, so that US laws don't apply, and US legal precedents won't have much weight suggest to me that it will offer quite a bit of protection. A terrorist might get caught up in the legal web, but the RIAA will have their costs raised by a couple of orders of magnitude, and Jesus, that's alright with me (cue guitars...)
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dcapel (913969) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:01AM (#15908566)
      (http://wot.narg.googlepages.com/)
      Records? What Records?!
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by mwvdlee (775178) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:15AM (#15909164)
        (http://www.vanderlee.com/)
        Perhaps the records that Relakks claims only need to be handed over when there is a possibility on 2+ years imprisonment under Swedish law?

        There are records, Relakks implies so themselves. It's just that Relakks claims to not hand them over readily.

        Considering how effective the *AA's have been at getting access to private information based solely on completely meaningless evidence (a screen printout with filenames that look like copyrighted material), I have to wonder how easy it would be for the Swedish *AA-a-like to make up a bogus claim which could potentially get somebody imprisoned for 2 years.
        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Question? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mincognito (839071) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:01AM (#15908567)

      If it is commercial, couldn't the company' records be subpoenaed (in a worst case scenario) by state/local/etc authorities?

      Records? What records?
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question? (Score:5, Funny)

        by dcapel (913969) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:08AM (#15908587)
        (http://wot.narg.googlepages.com/)
        Re:Question? (Score:2)
          by dcapel (913969) on Tuesday August 15, @02:01AM (#15908566)
        (http://wot.narg.googlepages.com/)
        Records? What Records?!

        Re:Question?
          (Score:2)
          by mincognito (839071) Alter Relationship on Tuesday August 15, @02:01AM (#15908567)
        (http://thegreennotebook.blogspot.com/)

          If it is commercial, couldn't the company' records be subpoenaed (in a worst case scenario) by state/local/etc authorities?

          Records? What records?

        Ok, you are either copying me (your post id is one larger) or that is plain SCARY.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Question? (Score:5, Funny)

          by mincognito (839071) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:29AM (#15908634)
          Re:Question? (Score:2) by dcapel (913969) on Tuesday August 15, @02:01AM (#15908566) (http://wot.narg.googlepages.com/) Records? What Records?! Re:Question? (Score:2) by mincognito (839071) Alter Relationship on Tuesday August 15, @02:01AM (#15908567) (http://thegreennotebook.blogspot.com/) If it is commercial, couldn't the company' records be subpoenaed (in a worst case scenario) by state/local/etc authorities? Records? What records? Ok, you are either copying me (your post id is one larger) or that is plain SCARY.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Question? (Score:5, Funny)

            by mincognito (839071) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:34AM (#15908660)
            um, that was supposed to be funny but i forgot to copy the formatting. but seriously, that was an amazing coincidence. 1 in a 1,000,000. other people win the lottery, i simultaneously post the same message to slashdot as dcapel.
            [ Parent ]
        • Re:Question? (Score:5, Funny)

          by monoqlith (610041) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:33AM (#15908655)
          In the late 17th Century, Newton and Liebniz came up with Calculus almost simultaneously. [wikipedia.org]

          Now, in the 21st century, we have 'dcapel' and 'mincognito' with identical, +1 Insightful Slashdot posts simultaneously.

          I call that progress.

          It's now time for you two to sue the pants off of each other for copyright infringement.

          Ready, set, call your lawyers...now!
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Question? by gkhan1 (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:45AM
            • Re:Question? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:58AM
            • Re:Question? by Savantissimo (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:23AM
              • Re:Question? (Score:4, Insightful)

                by gkhan1 (886823) <oskarsigvardsson ... m ['il.' in gap]> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:37AM (#15909732)

                Been reading the Baroque Cycle, have we? ;)

                You are drastically underestimating the genius of Newton and the influence he would have on science. Saying "Newton did a handful of big things - laws of motion and universal gravitation (although these were building on the work of others more than is generally seen)" is like saying "Yeah, Einstein fooled around with physics, but really anyone who studied Planck and Maxwell could figure out that stuff".

                He didn't just develop "laws of motion" and figure out "universal gravitation". As you said, this had been worked on by many people before. What Newton did that was so extraordinary was that he was able to, with four simple laws, explain EVERYTHING. He explained why Galileos balls fell like they did, he was able to explain Keplers four laws (which took Kepler 17 years to figure out), he was able to explain how the earth was kept in orbit around the sun, he was able to explain why the moon circled the earth. You have to realise the enourmous scientific breakthrough of being able not only to explain planets and apples movements, but to actually realise and prove that they were the same force!

                After Newton, most people were of the opinion that physics was basically done! The rest was small stuff, maybe clarify exactly how the laws worked in fluids, or figure out that magnetism stuff. In the 19th century, students were actually advised not to study physics, because since Newton had finished it, it wasn't really a subject for the future.

                Newtonian mechanics reigned as completely unchallenge for 180 years! 180 years! Only in 1864 with James Clerk Maxwells equations did a seed of doubt become planted, but there would be no other theory for another forty years. Between 1687 and 1905, Newton had not ever been even slightly modified. I mean, imagine that. In the modern world there is general relativity and quantum physics, but they change all the time, with string theory and m-theory, and the accelarating universe and whatnot. Not so with Newton, his theories remained, completely intact. They were that good.

                A wonderful quote from Lagrange (who inarguably knew more about this stuff than us two) is "Newton was the greatest genius that ever existed and the most fortunate, for we cannot find more than once a system of the world to establish". Turns out he weren't entirely correct, but you can hear in that quote that impact that Newton had had. He had explained how the world worked. All of it. Simple as that.

                This is not even mentioning all the other amazing stuff that he did, the optics, the telescopes (which were indeed the greatest telescopes of it's day, and is still in wide use today), etc. Yeah, I agree, Hooke was a genius, but what did he do that was comparable to Newton? Discovered and coined the word "cell"? Hooke's law of elasticity? Assorted discoveries in Biology? His architetural feats? That doesn't even come close to Newton.

                And so what if he was an asshole? Sure he treated both Hooke and Leibniz (and pretty much the rest of the western world) like shit, but does that mean his scientific discoveries are somehow worth less?

                Bottom line, Newton completely changed how we view the world. Him and Einstein, those are the only two that can make a claim on explain the System of the World.

                [ Parent ]
              • Re:Question? by Fujisawa Sensei (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:26AM
              • Re:Question? by autophile (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:37AM
              • Re:Question? by EvilMagnus (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:27PM
              • Re:Question? by gkhan1 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:24PM
              • Re:Question? by Cally (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:02PM
              • Re:Question? by networkBoy (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:23PM
              • Re:Question? by Savantissimo (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @05:22AM
              • Re:Question? by gkhan1 (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @06:43AM
              • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Question? by monoqlith (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @11:22AM
            • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Question? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by evilviper (135110) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:46AM (#15908693)
          (Last Journal: Monday October 15, @11:53PM)
          Ok, you are either copying me (your post id is one larger) or that is plain SCARY.

          In other words...

              DUPE! DUPE! DUPE!

          Okay, everyone can mod him down (-1 Redundant) now, for being a fraction of a second slower than you to submit.

          You should be happy that this is nothing major. I heard an American sniper tell a story of when he was assigned to kill a Vietnamese sniper. The American's bullet went straight down the scope of the Vietnamese sniper's riffle, and killed him. If the American had pulled the trigger just a bit slower, it would have been the other guy telling the exact same story.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Question? by mgblst (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:54AM
            • Re:Question? by evilviper (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:41AM
              • Re:Question? by mgblst (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:15AM
              • Re:Question? by evilviper (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:43AM
              • Re:Question? by mgblst (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:53AM
              • Re:Question? by MightyYar (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:53AM
              • Re:Question? by evilviper (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:02AM
              • Re:Question? by Bromskloss (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:30AM
              • Re:Question? by mindstrm (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:13AM
              • Re:Question? by finkployd (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:16AM
              • Re:Question? by MBGMorden (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:24PM
              • Re:Question? by Bromskloss (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:26PM
            • Re:Question? by Zelbinian (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:37AM
          • Re:Question? by RobbieGee (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:14AM
          • Re:Question? by Supersonic1425 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:28AM
          • Re:Question? by jayloden (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:49AM
          • Re:Question? by ShooterNeo (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:33AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:Question? by orielbean (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:52AM
          • Re:Question? by kidcharles (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:59PM
          • Re:Question? by cloricus (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:01AM
          • Re:Question? by evilviper (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:24AM
            • Re:Question? by _Swank (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:04AM
              • Re:Question? by evilviper (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @01:02AM
          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Question? by tmk (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:04AM
    • Re:Question? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Jugalator (259273) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:32AM (#15908648)
      (Last Journal: Monday February 13 2006, @07:11PM)
      Quick translation from their Security FAQ:

      What do this law [of Swedish electronic communication; 2003:389] say when it comes what Swedish government agencies or others request access to the information protected by RELAKKS?

      When it comes to Swedish law enforcement agencies, RELAKKS has the same rights and obligations as a regular ISP with two important differences.

      1. RELAKKS uses advance payments, which implies RELAKKS does not need to follow a traditional subscriber register. This is of great importance due to what kinds of customer information RELAKKS can disclose.

      If Swedish agencies can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they have legal support in requesting the user information from RELAKKS (the penalty has to in this case be greater than fines), RELAKKS need to disclose the subscriber details you as a user has submitted.

      2. RELAKKS does not save customer details beyond those you have given yourself when signing up for the service (you can also change these details as long as you're a paying customer). If you don't proceed using the service, RELAKKS will delete your user account.

      The details Swedish agencies can request beyond user account details (see above) are so called traffic information. These are protected by a much stronger legal protection. To disclose these, the crime needs to have a penalty of at least jailtime in two years.

      I understand it that it's business and laws as usual here too, of course, but if they're enforced of leaving out user details, I wonder what exact differences their unconventional subscriber register has compared to a regular one. They don't seem to go into detail of that, and I'd guess that is the most interesting part here.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Question? by Jugalator (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:36AM
    • Re:Question? Answer. by grrowl (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:36AM
    • I got excited too but then read the fine print by forwardhairbrush (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:23AM
    • Re:Question? - Eliminates WIFI RIAA defense by Jugalator (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:12AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • So it is an encrypted proxy service (Score:5, Interesting)

    by appleprophet (233330) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:57AM (#15908556)
    (http://wolfire.com/)
    I am very skeptical. My question is, how can they afford that much bandwidth? Given that their target market consists largely of P2P users, how can they tunnel all of a heavy bittorrent user's encrypted traffic for only $6.50 a month? It sounds to me like they should get into the ISP business or file hosting business instead...
  • This new political party is sure to cause a bit of panic all over the world, due to the extreme, overrated hype of piracy.

    Not all piracy is a bad thing. I mean, software these days is seriously overpriced. You could teach yourself some very basic programming skills (Visual Basic, for instance), and create a program that'll do exactly what the $100+ equivilant does.

    So of course people will pirate it. Why? Because it's rediculous to pay for something like that.

    Then there's music. Just to let you know, piracy HARDLY hurts the musician. Considering that 90% of the sales go to the record company before the artist ever sees a penny, they're really not "losing" much at all.

    Then again, sometimes piracy is a bad thing. Especially for the movie industry. Millions (if not billions) of dollars go into the making of a movie. While, yes, theater sales bring in tons of cash, DVD releases are also a huge factor in a movie's income. Downloading a movie hurts people a lot more than downloading music.

    Piracy has become such an overrated "controversy" lately that it's unbarable. Look at the price of blank CDs. Did you know that you have to pay a "piracy tax" for these? Yep. All because some higher-ups think that an extra buck or two will help save a movie studio or a record company. It's batty. What if I just want to burn copies of pictures from my family vacation? Now I've gotta pay the MPAA and RIAA some extra cash for something that they don't deserve? Get real.

    All these corporations think that they're helping people by attempting to foil piracy. Yes, they've got their hearts in the right places, but they're doing it all wrong. "Right track, wrong train" is a good saying for this. They really need to clean up their acts when suing people. I mean, they've gone so far as to sue old ladies who can barely turn their computer on, yet let huge pirates go unnoticed.

    Why's this?

    Because if they let big pirates continue doing their thing, then they get to keep on making more and more money with the "piracy taxes" and suing people left and right for WAY more than the material they've pirated is worth. They're letting people go to keep themselves in the game, which is horrible.



    Also, just a little side note, to anybody who thinks the RIAA or MPAA might be knocking on your door. Go ahead and go to court, but bring up the fact that an IP address is not a person. Since your IP is the only log they have of the download (even if they have the MAC, that'll only ID a computer, not a single person), you'll win in court. And they'll lose out on a bunch of money for the court date, as well. Two-for-one, if you ask me. =D
  • Darknet? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Matt Perry (793115) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:59AM (#15908563)
    I wasn't quite sure what a Darknet was so I had to read the wikipedia article [wikipedia.org]. According to wikipedia it's a network where "users only connect to people they trust". If that's the case then that's different than what the linked article in the /. summary is talking about. According to it this is "a new Internet service that lets anybody send and receive files and information over the Internet without fear of being monitored or logged." If anyone can connect, I can't trust them all. It would only take one person within the web of trust to ruin it for everyone. Besides, if data eventually has to make it to me then there's always a way to locate the destination and source.

    This article seems like BS.
    • Re:Darknet? (Score:5, Informative)

      by man_ls (248470) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .lebeokj.> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:10AM (#15908595)
      I think the point is that it's (1) based in Sweeden, (2) encrypted end-to-end, (3) as anonymous as you want it to be based on the information you provide to them, and (4) fairly strongly protected legally in the jurisdiction it operates in.

      1 and 4 being pretty big for USians who are using it...2 for people whose ISPs filter. 3, dubiously so, as at some point they have your credit card saying that you have an account although I suppose that, if they don't store your tunnel account with your CC number, they have no way of getting to you personally.

      It doesn't matter if someone nefarious is on the same link-local segment sniffing all your traffic, if they can't identify through technological means who you are, and can't compel the provider through legal means either because they didn't keep that information or just won't give it over.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Darknet? by Matt Perry (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:44AM
        • Re:Darknet? by ajs318 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:48AM
          • Re:Darknet? by cluke (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:59AM
            • Re:Darknet? by ajs318 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:53AM
              • Re:Darknet? by nmos (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @11:45AM
          • Re:Darknet? by Matt Perry (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:36PM
        • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Darknet? by jafac (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:14PM
    • Re:Darknet? by evilviper (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:10AM
    • Re:Darknet? by Hobbex (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:37AM
    • Re:Darknet? by Jugalator (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:58AM
    • Re:Darknet? by owlnation (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:37AM
      • Re:Darknet? by makomk (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:22AM
  • Not sure about this (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:07AM (#15908582)
    Does this mean the serious side of evil people will be able to conduct their business without fear of being caught?

    This is a problem with the darknet. I like freedom but sometimes a little monitoring and record keeping should be used to help police catch the weirdos that exist in our society.

    I think there should be a balance of privacy and safety for our society, maybe there is, but it doesnt look like it to me with this new service.
  • Exporting a society's good things (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Aceticon (140883) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:09AM (#15908591)
    After all these years of the US government exporting moralistic and lobby-built laws (soft drug prohibition, "ethernal" copyright, etc), it's nice to see somebody trying to export their society's (swedish) values of respect for freedom and privacy, even if their current crop of mainstream politicians seems to be in the pockets of the US admistration.

    On the other hand, i expect that if the Relakks service becomes popular expect laws to be passed soon in other countries to curtail access to it.
    • Re:Exporting a society's good things (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Aceticon (140883) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:54AM (#15909126)

      Yeah, I prefer the old, "amoralistic" laws myself, like prohibition of theft, murder, that kind of thing.

      Clue: most laws are "moralistic."

      Most laws are designed to make it possible for people to live together in the most productive way possible (thus NOT an anarchy and NOT the law of the strongest). These laws thus concern themselfs with avoiding that one person knowingly or purposelly causes harm to another person (such as murder, theft, etc), secure trading (contracts, sales laws, etc) and avoiding "tragedy of the commons" situations with shared resources (environmental laws, zoneing laws, etc)

      Any laws dictating what a person cannot do with their own bodies in the privacy of their own house and without causing any harm to others is a moralistic law in that it tries to forcifully deny to others the (lawfull) possibility of acting in certain ways, even though those actions would have no negative impact for third parties.

      Soft drugs prohibition is thus a moralistic law since smoking pot in the privacy of one's home causes no harm to others, while for example a law prohibiting driving while under the influence of drugs would NOT be a moralistic law since driving under influence strongly increases the chances of an accident which could harm to others.

      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Awesome! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by TastyCakes (917232) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:13AM (#15908601)
    Man what a great idea. Justifying the 99% of the traffic on this thing that is piracy with 1% of "secret communications", of which a significant chunk is going to be concerning other law breaking, laws likely worse than piracy. Wire taps are the tools of opressive society! Oh and also the tools to catch mobsters and terrorists, I guess. But don't worry, I'm sure the people who wanted to blow up thousands of westerners on planes about this time wouldn't figure out how to use something like this.
    • Re:Awesome! by bky1701 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:43AM
    • Re:Awesome! (Score:4, Interesting)

      I'm sure the people who wanted to blow up thousands of westerners on planes about this time wouldn't figure out how to use something like this.
      They already use something like this. If you were doing something really illegal, like planning to kill thousands of people, would you send it in the mail or speak about it over an unsecure line?

      The problem (is it a problem?) with freedom is that people will abuse it. In this case, the right is privacy. If you outlawed crypto for fear of terrorists using it they would just use other methods. It might not be SSL/TLS/etc. but simple keywords. For instance, it could be agreed upon at a meeting that if the heist/bombing/etc. is going to go ahead, I speak to you about my mother. If not, I could speak to you about my father. Simple things that like that is essentally all they'd need to do to circumvent any outlawed crypto. The counter to that is to monitor the communcations of every last person on earth for all time.

      Here, I'd hope you'd understand that the solution is worse than the problem. So that terrorists can't use tools that law abiding citizens use, you'd have to totally eliminate privacy and have everyone monitored all the time.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Awesome! by init100 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:41AM
        • Re:Awesome! by stinerman (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:48AM
      • Re:Awesome! by TastyCakes (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:56PM
      • Re:Awesome! by DaDibbel (Score:1) Wednesday August 16 2006, @08:03AM
    • Re:Awesome! by LordLucless (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:13AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Rationale? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by evilviper (135110) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:19AM (#15908613)
    (Last Journal: Monday October 15, @11:53PM)
    I have to ask... "Why?"

    There are numerous companies already providing anonymizing services, very similar to this. What's special about this one, other than it's affiliation with the Pirate Party?
    • Re:Rationale? by montyzooooma (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:39AM
      • Re:Rationale? by evilviper (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:54AM
        • Re:Rationale? by pembo13 (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:59AM
  • Right... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jandersen (462034) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:39AM (#15908674)
    There are many legitimate reasons to want to be completely anonymous on the Internet

    'There must be a thousand reasons why you might want to be completely anonymous, but right now I can't think of one...'
    • Re:Right... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:54AM
    • Re:Right... (Score:5, Insightful)

      Freedom of Speech doesn't jump to mind? Especially in this day and age of NSA wiretapping? I have no idea what you've been smoking in order to lack the imagination to see that one.

      rhY
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Right... by dreamchaser (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:20AM
      • Re:Right... by jandersen (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:21AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Right... by djcondor (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:12PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Right... by Eivind (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:12AM
        • Re:Right... by crhylove (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @08:27AM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Right... by novus ordo (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:48AM
    • Re:Right... by xQx (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:53AM
    • Re:Right... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Eivind (15695) <eivindorama@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:09AM (#15908872)
      (http://ekj.vestdata.no/)
      There's many reasons, some noble, some less noble. Anyone that wants to can easily think of reasons one migth want to be anonymous on the internet.

      For example;

      • You may want to blow the whistle on some illegal or unethical behaviour where you work, but fear losing your job.
      • You may want to critisize government, but fear negative consequences. (depending on where you live this may be from none up to and including imprisonment, torture or execution)
      • You may want to lobby for an unpopular position.
      • You may want to send email to your friends in the near east (I've got several friends in the UaE and Saudi-arabia) without ending up on the "no-fly" list.
      • You may want to help the police figthing corruption or mafia without yourself or your family ending up dead.
      • You may want to post anonymized nude photos online (for fun or profit) without exposing your identity.
      • If you're a boss, you may want to pose as an "outsider" and f.ex. contact your own support-department to get a picture of how said department works, as seen from the outside.
      • You may not *want* people to know you're collecting pictures of rhinos.
      • You may want to be able to discuss personal problems online without those you discuss it with knowing who you are.
      • You may want to look for love online without risking stalkers.

      There's a zillion reasons really. But more importantly, you shouldn't need any reason at all. The simple fact is, there exist people who would prefer, atleast sometimes, being anonymous online.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Right... by jandersen (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:37AM
        • Re:Right... by sixdaywar (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:23AM
          • Re:Right... by man_ls (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:13PM
        • Re:Right... by Eivind (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @01:23PM
      • how many gigs you got? by enjahova (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:39AM
      • Re:Right... by Hillgiant (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:41AM
        • Re:Right... by Eivind (Score:2) Wednesday August 16 2006, @01:28PM
          • Re:Right... by Hillgiant (Score:1) Wednesday August 16 2006, @04:46PM
            • Re:Right... by Eivind (Score:2) Friday August 18 2006, @03:46AM
              • Re:Right... by Hillgiant (Score:1) Friday August 18 2006, @02:41PM
              • Re:Right... by Eivind (Score:2) Monday August 21 2006, @01:03PM
      • Re:MOD PARENT UP by Hillgiant (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:35AM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Right... by shmlco (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:19AM
    • Re:Right... by evilviper (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:34AM
    • 1. WHISTLEBLOWER you ignorent fool/cia agent. by cheekyboy (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:01AM
    • Re:Right... by Overzeetop (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:57AM
    • Good Uses of VPN by wintermute1974 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:23AM
    • Why Are Logged Lives the Default Position? by wintermute1974 (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:36AM
    • Re:Right... by Guuge (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @10:21AM
    • Re:Right... by DanQuixote (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:36PM
    • Actually, green lovers are wose than oil people by cheekyboy (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:07AM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Copyright incompatible with privacy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gronofer (838299) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:40AM (#15908679)
    I'm impressed with this idea, and particularly with one of their statements:
    The only way to enforce today's unbalanced copyright laws is to monitor all private communications over the Internet.
    This is one of the reasons I'm opposed to copyright myself.
  • by cliffski (65094) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:49AM (#15908705)
    (http://www.positech.co.uk/)
    "There are many legitimate reasons to want to be completely anonymous on the Internet"
    And copying a King Kong DVD rip is not one of them. Its sad when people take the legitmate point about anonymity that you might need for political organisations, journalists and whistle-blowers, and just use it as an excuse to facilitate warez and music copying.
    And calling yourselves the 'pirate party' is just plain insane. Whats wrong with "the consumer rights' party? or do they realsie thats way too hypocritical.
  • Will somebody explain how this is significantly better/different than privoxy and torbutton? Now granted, it'd be nice if Shareaza came with TOR and privoxy included, but from what I understand this can already be done, and some people are doing it. Will somebody knowledgable on these topics spout off in here and educate the rest of us? What is the likely path to truly anonymous online communication for all? Commercial darknets or embedded onion routing? Some other thing I can't imagine, fathom, or haven't heard about?

    rhY
  • Governmental power (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Colin Smith (2679) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:21AM (#15908782)
    Actually a lot of it comes from the ability to devalue the currency by printing money on demand.

    The police, intelligence services, military industrial complex for instance have to be paid. You can do that by raising taxes, or by printing more money. Raising taxes is the obvious way to do it, but how popular are you going to be if you increase income and sales taxation? You'd be out at the next election.

    Well, you control the printing presses, so just print more money, pay the services and suppliers with this new money, you can do what you like then without raising taxation and pissing off the electorate. Unfortunately, money like any commodity is subject to the laws of supply and demand so if you increase the amount of money around, each dollar becomes worth less and you have inflation, though you can easily deflect that blame on to others; Oil suppliers, employee wage demands, greedy retailers etc.

    If the government was unable to print money (actually to borrow it) on demand, it's power to wage war, to pay for expensive surveillance etc would be very severely curtailed because it would have to raise taxation to pay for these services.

    If you really want to limit the power of governments, then you have to remove or reduce their ability to create money on demand. If you're a libertarian for instance and really believe in small government then move your savings out of your local currency and into some other commodity; Property, gold, silver, shares etc.

     
  • by GapingHeadwound (985265) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:32AM (#15908807)

    From TFA:

    The cost of the service is 5 euros per month, and it is available now at www.relakks.com. A portion of the subscription fees will go towards the Pirate Party's work in changing the copyright and privacy laws and making the service obsolete.

    This notion needs to be ported to *Management*...

    1) Provide Middle Management services, a portion of the cost of which goes towards making Middle Management obsolete

    2) ?

    3) Profit

    (hence the attraction to pirates.... aargh....)

  • 2 Questions (Score:2, Interesting)

    by itsthebin (725864) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:57AM (#15908851)
    (http://www.soisanook.com/)
    How long would it work from China through the great firewall or say Thailand through TRUE's Bluecoat proxy ? once pptp.relakks.com is blocked whats the next step. Can it be made to run from a flash mem stick - or are you required to have admin rights on the machine you wish to use ?
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Latency? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hippo (107522) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:34AM (#15908941)
    (http://127.0.0.1/)
    I see lots of posts about bandwidth, which is fine if you're planning to use this service to copy large quantities of data, but for any other use latency is more important.

    This won't be much use for me if it makes the latency of my VPN connection to my employer so slow that typing into VNC becomes useless. At the moment I get ~20ms ping times from home to work (somewhere in the UK to somewhere else in the UK) and typing via VNC over a VPN is just as good as if I were at work. I've had times when the latency went up and it rapidly becomes impossible to type at normal speed because you can't correct your mistakes as you go.

    Has anyone got any figures for latency for this ISP?
    • Re:Latency? by stinerman (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:11AM
  • Er... (Score:4, Funny)

    by aiken_d (127097) <aiken AT bondage DOT com> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:58AM (#15908995)
    (http://bondage.com/)
    A portion of the subscription fees will go towards the Pirate Party's work in changing the copyright and privacy laws and making the service obsolete.

    I applaud their honesty, but I'm not convinced on this "you pay us monthly, and we'll destroy the service" business model.

    -b

    • Re:Er... by lixee (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:49AM
  • PPTP tunnel ? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:22AM (#15909045)
    Reading FAQ on their site it appears they use PPTP tunnel. While it's quick and easy to setup for clients, looks like it has some security flaws, quoting Poptop page about PPTP security (http://poptop.sourceforge.net/dox/protocol-securi ty.phtml):

    "PPTP is known to be a faulty protocol. The designers of the protocol, Microsoft, recommend not to use it due to the inherent risks. Lots of people use PPTP anyway due to ease of use, but that doesn't mean it is any less hazardous. The maintainers of PPTP Client and Poptop recommend using OpenVPN (SSL based) or IPSec instead."

  • Warning! Not Anonymous (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bananaendian (928499) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:31AM (#15909070)
    (http://www.tribalnetworks.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday February 25 2006, @07:46PM)

    The claim that this service provides anonymity and immunity to logging is only true in a very limited sense! This is basically a simple one level proxy which keeps access records which the authorities can get their hands on if they "suspect" a crime is being committed. Sweden is signator to various levels of intellegence sharing deals on international crime and terrorism so none of the Swedish laws on privacy have effect if some outside government presents "reasonable suspicion" of a crime being committed. And no, you don't have to be a terrorist or kiddy pron baron to be concerned here - tyrannical governments have been known throughout history to use any means to available to them suppress and oppress their citizens...

    Tor [eff.org] on the otherhand can claim to provide a level of true anonymity because of the 'onion routing' concept. A potential adversary would have to infiltrate the network with enough fake nodes to get to both the input end (to get the ip) and the the exit node (to get the traffic) and then do some traffic analysis to match these two together in order to figure out who is doing what. This being very resource intensive, such capability would only be available to the highest levels of intellegence gathering and even then only for a limited set of survaillance targets.

  • Sacrilege! (Score:1)

    by elyobelyob (844203) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @05:40AM (#15909089)
    "We are currenly experiencing problems with some of our creditcard transactions not passing correctly through our bankingpartner's systems. They are working on a solution. In the meantime - it appears as if you have a better chance to get payments through by utilizing Internet Explorer as a web brower."
  • It has already been noted that this is not a darknet,
    using a VPN gateway only adds delays compared with a
    real darknet with P2P VPN connections between trusted parts.

    To give this some advantage if P2P traffic avalanches the VPN gateway
    it should act like a tracker distributing both requests and
    data packet responses, the difference being that each data
    packet response may be multicast to all requesting parties
    for a bittorrent. This should improve torrent efficiency.

    The legal issue may be that the combined tracker and gateway
    will in some sense not only have links to the data but in
    a dynamic way have the data in its pipes.

  • by JFMulder (59706) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:09AM (#15909154)
    If the government can check everything each citizen does, nobody can keep the government in check.
    This reminds me of a saying that is quoted in "Digital Fortress", a book from Dan Brown : "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes", which is latin and roughly translates to "Who will guard the guards?".
  • by bjoeg (629707) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:10AM (#15909157)
    Hmm

    If you can do more than one PPTP tunnel at a same time, and Relakks offer public IPs, one could actually get a global IP for every machine behind the router. Neat.

    However their FAQ does not say anything what kind of IPs that are being assigned. Wonder if Relakks does caching too to take off some of the bandwidth load.
  • Google (Score:1)

    by edmicman (830206) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @06:24AM (#15909181)
    (http://www.fiestyturtles.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 23, @09:07PM)
    So *that's* what Google is doing buying up all that dark fiber!
  • The service is provided by the Swedish high-tech company Relakks, which offers a neutral IP on top of your existing ISP service through a strongly encrypted VPN connection. Basically, this gives users the advantage of a Swedish IP address from anywhere in the world.

    So, how long until Ma Bell and Pa Cable make it against their TOS to connect to an "unauthorized" VPN provider (whereby darknet VPNs are conviently never authorized)? Of course they would only do this after a little "helful nudge" by the DOJ.

    Serioulsy - the idea is great, but using a service like this is basically like putting a big "HEY, I AM OVER HERE, COME ARREST ME AND THEN DO AN UNLAWFUL SEARCH OF MY HOUSE!" sign on your roof.

    The sad sad thing is - a few years ago I would take a comment like this owrth a grain of salt and offer up some tinfoil to the potser. Nowadays I feel like it could actually happen.

  • Problematic to the extreme (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Sqreater (895148) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:05AM (#15909293)

    1.) You have to keep tabs on changes in Swedish law, European Union law, and USA law if you are an American citizen or risk being exposed legally at any time. If a terrorist bomb goes off in downtown Sweden, forget it.

    2.) The very use of this service could expose you to conviction. I read a case in the news in which a judge instructed a jury in a porn case that even though no incriminating files were found on the suspect's computer, the jury could take the mere PRESENCE of encryption software as an indication of guilt. I can see mere use of this service being considered incriminating by some idiot judges.

    3.) It's on Slashdot for crying out loud. Do you actually think law and government security geeks are not going to find it a challenge to break it legislatively or technically? I'd feel better if it were a privacy service existing in the internet twilight.

    4.) There's the paranoia factor. What makes you think it isn't a trap?

  • by tsa (15680) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:48AM (#15909459)
    (http://www.tjerkstra.org/)
    I was wondering: this could be a great way for people who live under oppressive gouvernments like the Chinese to speak their minds. They are anonymous so more safe than on the 'regular' part of the 'Net. But this also presents us with a problem: say you want to make a blog, consisting of several files (one for each entry for instance). Every file is made by some anonymous individual. How can you make sure all these files are made by the same person whilst keeping sure you stay anonymous?
  • Cybercrime Treaty (Score:2, Informative)

    by drakyri (727902) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:12AM (#15909583)
    I'm all for a protected darknet, but wouldn't the recently signed Cybercrime Treaty compel Swedish authorities to hand over information demanded by other governments? It seems like the U.S. could ask for traffic information to be recorded (as under U.S. law), and that the Swedish ISP would be forced to comply. ...I hope not, (and I haven't had the time for an in-depth reading of the treaty articles) but that's what the overview makes it sound like.

    ./ story here [slashdot.org],
    List of signatories (Council of Europe site) [coe.int]
  • Now that is just... (Score:4, Funny)

    by SQLz (564901) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:38AM (#15909739)
    (http://www.linuxplatform.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 16 2003, @04:31PM)
    This is just down right, unamerican. 'If the government can check everything each citizen does, nobody can keep the government in check.' Its the governments job to watch over us and make sure we follow the teachings of jesus.
  • by Columcille (88542) * on Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:53AM (#15909813)
    (http://www.musterion.net/)
    'There are many legitimate reasons to want to be completely anonymous on the Internet,' says Rickard Falkvinge, chairman of the Pirate Party. 'If the government can check everything each citizen does, nobody can keep the government in check.'"

    Oh please. 99% of the traffic will be illegal filesharing. This particular statement is quite ridiculous because what does "darknet" have to do with keeping government in check? Something like this can have nothing to do with government accountability. The argument is akin to the "Think of the children!" approach so often ridiculed here.
  • Sold! (Score:1)

    by Kamineko (851857) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:11AM (#15909931)
    ^_^
  • It's quite sad... (Score:2)

    by rbarreira (836272) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:36AM (#15910072)
    (http://wod.home.dyndns.org/)
    It's quite sad that to get true privacy one has to buy it... Isn't privacy supposed to be a fundamental human right?
  • by buddyglass (925859) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:51AM (#15910173)
    says Rickard Falkvinge, chairman of the Pirate Party. 'If the government can check everything each citizen does, nobody can keep the government in check.'

    "If the government could check everything my friends and I do, we wouldn't be able to exchange copyrighted music, movies and software."

  • Timing Attacks? (Score:2)

    by hweimer (709734) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @12:47PM (#15911513)
    (http://www.osreviews.net/)
    Unfortunately the website lacks any details about how they want to protect their users from timing analysis [wikipedia.org] attacks. Even Tor is affected by them and I somehow doubt that they found the holy grail of anonymous networking, yet they claim that "nobody can track your communication".
  • by flipmack (886723) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:29PM (#15912479)
    (http://flipmack.blogspot.com/)
    whoa. almost 600 replies and no references to the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the inverse relationship of pirates with global warming? what is this world coming to?
  • You know, there is... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Corwn of Amber (802933) <corwinofamber&skynet,be> on Tuesday August 15 2006, @04:35PM (#15914139)
    You know, there is that thing called "common sense" that everyone else seems to be lacking. Or have a different version of than YOU do, which causes them to have different opinions.

    Idea 1 :
    What I, HUMAN, buy, when I buy anyTHING, it BELONGS TO ME, as in "MY book, MY cd-rom, MY computer, MY audio cd, MY dvd."
    And I can do whatever I want with it, and the first thing I do with each and every data support is to rip and copy it, in hopes of gaining the ability to enjoy it when the support has become unusable (re-sold, given away, destroyed, lost, scratched, missing, stolen, borrowed). I buy a CD, not a nebulous right to play recorded music. I buy a round disc that holds many ones and zeroes, which represent music that can be played back when the round thing is inserted in a suitable device. That is a little far-fetched from buying a right to listen to music.
    You see, THAT is what I call common sense: WHEN YOU BUY SOMETHING, IT'S YOURS.

    Idea 2 :
    "Information wants to be free" : bullshit. Information IS free. It belongs in the mind of each and everyone that wants it. Information is free because it can be replicated at no cost. Which leads to

    Idea 3 :
    Blah blah the cost of production blah blah : bullshit. A movie that does not return its initial investment in theater tickets many times over in the first week is a commercial failure. Oh, I know, the video market gains The Industry many many more $ even, but I say fuck them. They've earned enough money already. And they might earn even more if I could actually BUY the dvds ($30 a film? Yeah, right. Make that $10 and I'll buy them in six-packs.)

    The production costs for a music album could be repaid many times over, too : The more people buy the hardware (i.e. the CD, or whatever other support) or the concert tickets, the more $ you get as a musician. The more people download your music, the more people will listen to it. THAT costs you NOTHING AT ALL.

    Idea 4:
    MY common sense tells me that, as there are zillions of people downloading exabytes of data on various darknets, the statistical chance anyone (i.e. you, reader, or me, writer) will ever be prosecuted for filesharing is very, very near zero.

    Other ideas :
    What "copyrighted material"? I can't copy a CD with its artwork, booklet, and sell the copies. Chinese industries do that, they have printing and CD presses. The ones where CDs get lawfully produced in the day and pirate-copied at night. That amounts to the same as printing money, then: the value of "copyrighted material" is non-zero at industrial scales.
    Or distributed, as in "ten million BitTorrent users and counting" - the very same people that DO buy round plastic things in artfully decorated jewel cases. But they do not steal anyTHING. Thus, no theft, no crime.

    Now, for software. Oh, make everything free for non-commercial use already, or so cheap that it would be more profitable for users to actually buy it instead of d/l'ing the crack from badly-coded, malware-infested and porn-ad-riddled crack sites. I'd have paid, oh, happily 10 to 20 for the whole Creative Suite 2, instead of waiting for a week for Azureus to DL it in English first and in French later. I'm a student and I'm not gonna see a ROI on that before the next version or the one after anyway. Now come sue me, Adobe, with your lawyers at [one year's student's expenses] a day. And it's not as if I didn't have to have the FULL version, not those castrated student editions. Yes, I know, I must still buy the hardware, but it's pretty hard to download it off the 'Net. And it CAN NOT BE COPIED AT ZERO COST. That's why hardware can be stolen. Not software. (Stealing the box in which the software comes IS theft, copying bits around is NOT.)

    And while I'm at it, I'm gonna type another rant : hardware prices. Hey, nVidia, does a Quadro chip REALLY cost you one hundred times more to produce than a crippled GeForce *200? Didn't think so, either.
  • Re:ah... (Score:5, Insightful)

    I'm nervous after visiting the iranian president's blog page...

    I'm nervous when people are nervous about standing up for themselves and saying, "Go fuck yourself, I'll read whatever I damned well like."

    [ Parent ]
    • Re:ah... by Xenna (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @02:31AM
    • Re:ah... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2006, @03:02AM (#15908742)
      I'm nervous when people are nervous about standing up for themselves and saying, "Go fuck yourself, I'll read whatever I damned well like."

      What country do you live in? I live in the USA where people voted in a facist administration that thinks the Constitution is a quaint document that is exactly where it belongs in a museum. If we could wrap copper around the founding fathers we wouldn't need foreign oil. Their spinning bodies could power the country for the next thousand years. If you mod this funny you aren't paying attention.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:ah... by JavaLord (Score:3) Tuesday August 15 2006, @09:33AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:ah... by Snaller (Score:2) Tuesday August 15 2006, @07:19AM
    • Re:ah... by fimbulvetr (Score:1) Tuesday August 15 2006, @08:15AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by Fantastic Lad (198284) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @11:14AM (#15910795)
    Anyhow, Sweden should have been occupied and punished long ago. The WWII wouldn't happened if they refused to sell all their iron ore to Hitler to help build the mighty nazi war machinery.

    Perhaps if the Bush family had not helped out German coal production and steel fabrication through American-financed companies which used slave labor from Auschwitz, all that iron wouldn't have posed as much of a problem.

    Just a thought.


    -FL

    [ Parent ]
  • by cursorx (954743) on Tuesday August 15 2006, @01:15PM (#15911759)
    From the Questions & Answers section:

    RELAKKS running Linux
    Q: Is it possible to use RELAKKS running Linux OS?
    A: Yes, it should be possible. We hope to be able to publish a guide shortly.
    [ Parent ]
  • 13 replies beneath your current threshold.