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Evolving ODF Environment: Spotlight on SoftMaker

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wed Jul 05, 2006 05:17 PM
from the odf-avalanche dept.
Andy Updegrove writes "In this fourth in-depth interview focusing on ODF-compliant office productivity suites, I interview Dr. Martin Sommer, of Germany's SoftMaker Software. Most people know about OpenOffice, StarOffice, and KOffice, the ODF poster child software suites. But there are also other products available as well, including this one, which bundles word processing and spreadsheet capabilities (with more modules on the way), runs on both Windows, Linux and mobile platforms, is designed for home users, is available on-line, is localized in many languages - and is dirt cheap, besides. It's also been selected by AMD for use in connection with its ambitious "50x15" plan, which hopes to connect 50% of the world population to the Internet by 2015. This interview series amply demonstrates how a useful standard - in this case ODF - can rapidly lead to the evolution of a rich and growing environment of compliant products, providing customers with variety, choice, price competition, and proprietary as well as open source product alternatives - in stark contrast to the situation that has prevailed in office suite software for the last many years."

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[+] What Does the Microsoft ODF Converter Mean? 177 comments
Andy Updegrove writes "It's been a week now since Microsoft announced its ODF/Office open source converter project - time enough for 183 on-line stories to be written, as well as hundreds of blog entries (one expects) and untold numbers of appended comments. Lest all that virtual ink fade silently into obscurity, it seems like a good time to look back and try to figure out what it all means. In this entry, I report on a long chat with Microsoft's Director of Standards Affairs Jason Matusow, and match up his responses with the official messaging in the converter press release. The result is a picture of a continuing, if slow and jerky, evolution within Microsoft as those that recognize market demands for more openness debate those that want to follow the old way. This internal divide means that the proponents of change need to point to real market threats in order to justify incremental changes. This adaptation by reaction process leaves Microsoft still lagging the market, but has allowed those that favor a more open approach to gradually turn the battle ship a few degrees at a time."
[+] BSD: SoftMaker Rolls Out Office Suite for BSD, Linux, and Others 275 comments
martin-k writes "Commercial office suite software is coming to FreeBSD, Linux, Windows, Sharp Zaurus and Windows Mobile. SoftMaker, a German developer, recently released SoftMaker Office, a multi-platform office suite that excels in Microsoft Office compatibility, claims to be much leaner and faster than OpenOffice.org and works on many operating systems, down to PDAs." While SoftMaker certainly isn't new, it is nice to see them roll out a finished suite as opposed to one-off programs.
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  • by popo (107611) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:29PM (#15663440)

    If ODF is the reason for this new plethora of Office products, then why is
    "Reading and Writing Word documents" the very first feature they all brag about.

    As much as I wish ODF were widely used, the reason OOo, Star and the rest
    exist is because of MS Office pricing. And these products do little to erode
    the prevelance of the .doc format. I use OOo daily, and no one has ever sent
    me a document in anything other than Word. I'd be amazed if it happened.

  • by PixelPirate (984935) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:31PM (#15663452)
    While I am a HUGE proponent for choice, I just don't understand the logic behind creating Office suites like these. They are nowhere near as polished as the expensive Microsoft Office, and yet are far more immature than OpenOffice.org. I could understand if they released the office suite for free, but who wants to pay for an application that (ultimately) you don't no whether you will be able to get support for because the company could be a fly-by-nighter. I have similar feelings with yellowTAB's Zeta -- why charge $100 USD for a product that ends up costing almost as much as Windows with much less support, and must be paid for in comparison to Linux? I just don't get it....
  • Great product, but not quite ODF (Score:5, Informative)

    by rduke15 (721841) <rduke15&gmail,com> on Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:48PM (#15663531)
    A very misleading article and submission.

    I'm a big fan of TextMaker, which is SoftMaker's word processor. (I don't know the rest of the "suite").

    But even though it is a really good word processor, it is hardly "ODF-compliant". In fact, this is my main problem with the program. By default, it stores documents in it's own proprietary format. It can save as MS-Word, which is what I do as a "lesser evil": it's also proprietary, but at least it is so widely used that I can expect to find converters for a long time. There is an .odt importer, but the exporter is still "in the works".

    I don't want import/export filters. I want my word processor to use an open document format natively, by default. So I hope they will eventually completely switch to ODF.

    Then of course, if the ODF is such a monstruosity as OpenOffice, I can understand why SoftMaker doesn't jump on the bandwagon... (yes, that's flamebait, but I mean it...:-)

    An alternative would be to comletely open up the specification to their own format.
  • Hmm, it's the 49ers all over (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rucs_hack (784150) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:01PM (#15663585)
    (http://code.google.com/p/nmod/)
    What we have here gentlemen and lady who wandered onto the wrong site by mistake, is a good old fashioned goldrush.

    Folks hear tell there's some erosion happening in the Microsoft foothills, and they want to stake a claim.

    Next comes a marketplace awash with Wannabe Microsoft Office clones, all trying to eke some small living off the Open format that can be like the holy 'doc', and which they desperatelly hope is a way to get a decent market share. Sorry guys, the junkies aint switching, it's create an entirely new market or die.

    I use ODF for *everything*, it's great, but these companies have got to realise, if all they can do is ape Office, then they're going against a battleship in a rowboat.

    ODF brings a chance to create something new, a way to store documents in a unified format that means there will never be a place or time when they cannot be accessed. Not just the next few years, but centuries from now.

    Microsoft have *never* offered this, unless the entire world plays their tune, and in spite of what you may have been told, there have been area's in computing where microsoft has never been able to venture. Without that they couldn't hope to dominate documents of all types, and you know they'd like to.

    ODF can though, it has one huge advantage. Being an Open standard, it can be modified in full public view. Things will only ever be added if they enhance the document format itself, not to suite the perceived needs of a single vendor.

    The only way to really exploit ODF is to break away from MSOffice like atributes, and start making something different and new.
  • Both of three things! (Score:3, Funny)

    by knewter (62953) <knewter.gmail@com> on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:08PM (#15663621)
    (http://knewter.wordpress.com/)
    runs on both Windows, Linux and mobile platforms

    I found the article both informative, entertaining, and grammatically confused.
  • Apple: MIA (Score:4, Interesting)

    by m874t232 (973431) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:14PM (#15663651)
    There is set of office apps besides MS Office and OpenOffice where ODF really would make a difference: Apple's. But, instead, Apple Pages and Keynote use their own, proprietary format, a format that isn't even consistent between Apple's own releases.
    • Re:Apple: MIA by ThePhilips (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2006, @04:39PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by Procyon101 (61366) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:24PM (#15663686)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday February 25 2003, @08:33PM)
    I was using a Windows box the other day. Overall, the OS seemed solid and polished, so I installed MS Office.

    Office opened up, I typed some characters... simple first steps. All seemed to be in order, so I go to try it out with some of my documents.

    I go to open a document I have opened with a few other Word Processors.. nothing. Word can't read any of my standard ODF documents. All my other word processing software can read Word docs, but Microsoft can't read the basic, common denominator standard. So much for that.

    So, on to spreadsheets. Open up an open document format spreadsheet with Excell. Excell somehow thinks this is a CSV formatted file of all things. I can't use any of my existing spreadsheets on this new software.

    Rather than spen untold painful hours converting everything, I uninstalled office and installed OOo for Windows. It seems that MS has alot of work to do to bring their office suite up to par with current standards. As it is, it seems barely useable, *IF* you can get access to a Windows machine and only if that machine has MS Office installed, which is a fairly rare combination from where I stand. I wonder why I don't see more "Windows isn't ready for the desktop" comments, because from my vantage point, that's the impression I get every time I struggle to use the damn stuff.
    • Maybe I' m just in a foul mood today, but... by IANAAC (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:45PM
      • by Procyon101 (61366) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @07:05PM (#15663851)
        (Last Journal: Tuesday February 25 2003, @08:33PM)
        First sentance is a bit sarcastic ;)

        GF's machine. She wanted access to some spreadsheets of mine and owns office which she normally uses on her laptop. In this case, I was using her desktop.

        Needless to say. MS Office was not a workable solution because it didn't play nice with standards. Any number of alternative solutions were available, none of them Microsoft's. Other products that use a proprietary format can at least fall back to accepted standards as an alternative to work in normal environments... Microsoft Office does not. When even the small, open source products provide a trivial solution (or at least make a valiant attempt) to what in my mind is a fairly mundane computing task, I would expect a mature product to be up to the task. Microsoft's suite is not. For my purposes it is an inferior product, as I don't care how well it can intermix fonts and indent my letter, if I can't even read my letters, written to a standard, with their product, then their product sucks.
        [ Parent ]
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_to_Suppo rt_OpenDocument/1152166759 [betanews.com] "In a surprise move, Microsoft is bending to pressure from governments and will sponsor an open source project to build tools that enable conversion between its Open XML formats in Office 2007 and OpenDocument (ODF). The forthcoming Office suite will also support an add-in for saving directly to ODF." I have to go scare some pigs off my roof that just flew in....
  • by slapout (93640) on Thursday July 06 2006, @09:15AM (#15666749)
    FYI, Textmaker is also available for Pocket Pc and Linux PDAs. Don't know if the portable versions support ODF though.
  • by AZteach (987652) on Wednesday July 12 2006, @02:20PM (#15707526)
    I have been using OpenOffice and the OpenDocument format since it was available and have never had a problem... After a lot of discussion, the school where I teach (I'm the CIS teacher) is going to OpenOffice and the OpenDocument format this year- it's an international standard and 15 years from now we will still be able to open those documents created this year. (We store a lot of student records in digital form. And the discussion was whether to go OOo AND Linux this year. We're going Linux next year... ) An example... my wife wanted to open a set of Word documents created in an earlier version of Word using Office 2003- no luck. I had to set up a computer with an older version of Word, and then save them to a "newer" old version so Word 2003 could convert them. And this isn't the first time I have had to do that. Need I say more?
  • BTW, ODF is a file format (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:38PM (#15663490)
    How is a file format "slow"?
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Amouth (879122) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:53PM (#15663552)
      i wish i could post back to my own comments on this last time..

      when reading a document like ODF (and anything based on XML) you have to read the whole file in to understand any of it (i know this isn't exact but i don't want to type it all out) with a binary format like a doc file.. what you need first is first.. you can understand a section by jumping to it and geting just that portion instead of the whole thing..

      it is the same with saving.. updating portions of the file instead of the whole thing.

      ODF is nice in that it is human readable and easy to write code to read and write them BUT it is slow.. you can only optmize so much in code.. if your working with a bad layout you can only go so fast

      MS has spent years optimizing the doc format ODF was not thought out for speed.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format by Amouth (Score:3) Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:57PM
      • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format by Goalie_Ca (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:39PM
      • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format (Score:5, Informative)

        by mmurphy000 (556983) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:41PM (#15663765)
        when reading a document like ODF (and anything based on XML) you have to read the whole file in to understand any of it

        And your proof for this assertion is...what?

        Counter-proof: pull parsers and StAX [xml.com].

        with a binary format like a doc file.. what you need first is first..

        And your proof for this assertion is...what?

        Counter-proof: ZIP files [google.com] have their table-of-contents at the end of the file.

        you can understand a section by jumping to it and geting just that portion instead of the whole thing

        And your proof for this assertion is...what?

        it is the same with saving.. updating portions of the file instead of the whole thing.

        And your proof for this assertion is...what?

        And please don't cite that RAR vs. Solid RAR nonsense from your previous post. Your analysis of RAR vs. Solid RAR is spot-on, but you have not demonstrated how either RAR's or Solid RAR's performance can be used as a predictor of the performance of .doc or ODF or hamster wheels or anything else.

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format (Score:4, Informative)

        by Svartalf (2997) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:42PM (#15663768)
        (http://www.earlconsult.com/)
        Reliability and consistency is first on my mind, followed up by speed.

        Unless MS Office is a standard in the same sense as ODF now is, it's not as useful to me as ODF can be.
        MS Office is only a standard in the sense that "everybody uses it"- here's a clue for you: not everybody does.

        I don't. I don't send editable documents to people with formatting unless I'm needing
        their editing input in the first place. I send PDF or PS files to people when I need a formally formatted
        and printer ready document to go to people. Yes, MS Office is smaller. Yes, even ODF is smaller. What most people don't get is that it's less likely for someone to catch a Macro Trojan/Worm off of PDF files and they're honestly what you see is what you get- with an MS Office document, it's not guaranteed if you use a font they don't have on their machine- same goes with OpenOffice.

        If it doesn't need formatting- it probably ought to be sent as a text email/file. If it does, and doesn't need editing, it probably needed to be sent as a PDF or similar. If it needs editing, you might want to consider something secure, something portable. MS Office formats are neither and can probably be said to not be so because they're little more than COM structured document stores.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format (Score:4, Interesting)

        by bit01 (644603) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @09:48PM (#15664523)

        BUT it is slow..

        You are mistaken. Have you had a look at the bytes of a typical binary format such as MSDOC? It's mostly zeroes.

        A text format with general purpose compression (as ODF is) can be considerably faster than a primitive binary "memory image". The reason is that that by far the biggest limiting factor is disk speed, not CPU, and if compression can reduce the disk size then the CPU needed to decode the text is not important. That's why read+decompress is often faster than read uncompressed.

        M$ have highly optimized MSDOC read/write routines. OO's routines aren't highly optimized. The ODF document format is almost irrelevant.

        Typical numbers. This [oasis-open.org] is 719 pages. It's about 0.5MB in both sxw and odt forms. A typical disk drive can read 10MB/s (just measured it). The entire document can be read in 50ms. Modern PC's have memory speeds of typically 1GB+/s [virgin.net]. The entire document can be read from memory in 500 microseconds.

        This doesn't prove that the ODF document can be parsed quickly but unless the ODF document format is totally brain dead, it does strongly suggest that decoding is not a big deal time-wise. It's not as if serial decompression and parsing is a computationally challenging task. e.g. This [irrlicht3d.org] XML parser read from disk cache the entire uncompressed 5MB (400KB compressed) content.xml from the above document and processed it in 0.7s.

        So please, stop spreading the all too common student excuses about primitive binary formats being magically faster. They may be but it's not automatic.

        ---

        Open source software is everything that closed source software is. Plus the source is available.

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:doc is xml too by steveg (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2006, @09:32PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:BTW, ODF is a file format by sxeraverx (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2006, @05:54PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by IWannaBeAnAC (653701) on Wednesday July 05 2006, @06:00PM (#15663576)
    The link does not go to a mirror at all. It goes to a site labelled "Family Medicine Notes: Docnotes - Occasional Notes from a family physician - since 1999". Except the AC screwed up, and it returns
    Page Not Found Page not found - /images/2002/11/08/fracture.jpg

    But the domain is www.docnotes.net, it was probably was intended to be some kind of gross medical pic.

    [ Parent ]
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.