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NSA To Datamine Social Networking Sites
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jun 09, 2006 09:56 AM
from the go-where-the-data-is dept.
from the go-where-the-data-is dept.
An anonymous reader writes "New Scientist has discovered that the NSA is funding research into the mass harvesting of the information that people post about themselves on social networks. And it could harness advances in Internet technology -- specifically the forthcoming 'semantic web' championed by the Web standards organisation W3C -- to combine data from social networking websites with details such as banking, retail and property records, allowing the NSA to build extensive, all-embracing personal profiles of individuals."
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Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:5, Interesting)
NSA Director Alexander: "Well, what have you found, son?"
NSA Researcher: "Well, sir, according to the report, this multi-billion dollar project has revealed that TripMaster Monkey [slashdot.org] is insightful, informative & interesting
NSA Director Alexander: "Yes, what else?"
NSA Researcher: "It's about Commander Taco, sir
NSA Director Alexander: "My GOD! Get me the president! And make sure he's dishonerably discharged immediately!"
NSA Researcher: "Yes SIR!"
How are they certain that the rules derived from these sites like MySpace or even Slashdot are even accurate? People post mis-information all the time & you can hardly call MySpace a reliable source for even seeding a semantic web. You can build a social network but even then it's hard because you're linking mostly aliases. Nowhere will you find my real name associated with my slashdot or myspace account--though you may be able to link them.
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:5, Interesting)
Because, as we all know, no one lies on the Internet. :)
In all seriousness though, there is a difference between the NSA parsing MySpace pages and the NSA pulling down phone records. It's my fault if I put anything on the social sites that could be used against me in the future (see: retarded bank robbers who post pictures of their "loot" with masks off on their MySpace pages) as the site is public by its very definition (well, the publicly non-friend sections that is). My phone records on the other hand, are private.
Data mine all you want, I don't think it will give you that much information. That is, other than how not to style a webpage.
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:4, Interesting)
Example: I don't participate in Payback schemes, because there is a difference between
1) the local gas station clerk knows what I bought in his station only and can maybe remember my face for some days.
2) the gas company knows what I bought nation-wide and can dig through it with unlimited accuracy.
If you have to be careful all the time about what you say publicly, guess what you have? Ask people from before-1989 easter germany or a chinese citizen. They can tell you.
The NSA is out of control... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:3, Interesting)
The current administration wants to "protect the children" by not only disallowing teenage tramps to not post pictures online, but legal consenting adults to not be able to post alluring pictures online either. We'v
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:3, Interesting)
The amount of influence the man on the street has over policy is basically microscopic.
On the other hand, before you write off our sys
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:3, Informative)
From various objective standards the US is in decline relative to not only Europe
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:3, Informative)
I'll agree with you about the proportion of male children in China being a significant negative factor, and raise you that
Two Words: Chilling Effect (Score:5, Insightful)
The communist block's secret police didn't always have the indiscriminate brutality of Stalin's black cars and summary executions. It eventually evolved into something more "subtle": the widespread idea that somewhere they have a dossier of what you've said and who you've associated with. That even if you don't land in the Gulag (but then again, you might land there anyway) for going drinking again with comrade Piotr who speaks against the government, there'll be a page in your dossier for ever flagging you as sharing Piotr's subversive views. And it someday might bite you in the ass. E.g., maybe some day you won't get a promotion, or the party's approval to go abroad (on business or holyday), or whatever, just because somewhere there's a page in your dossier saying you're a subversive element and associate with traitors.
Now they didn't have the computers or manpower to actually do that on anywhere near the scale NSA is doing it, so the probability was really low, but the chilling effect was thorough anyway. People didn't want to take risks, so they tended to shut up.
But the effect was more perverse than that. Anyone who openly spoke against the government was seen as a potential agent provocateur, trying to bait you into saying something that'll come back to haunt you later. It's the most perverse thing you can do to prevent organized resistance: make sure that people don't trust each other. The guy shouting against the government might be paid by the government, or may be someone who has a petty grudge against you and tries to get you to say something you might regret.
Basically, the the most effective threats don't have to be explicit, but vague and implicit. People don't have to know that the government will swiftly come and send them to Guantanamo for speaking against it. The most effective threat is to just have everyone know that you know everything they did and everyone they associated with, that it's for ever attached to their file somewhere, and they don't know how or when you'll use it. Maybe you'll go for direct retaliation, or maybe their son won't be able to get a government scholarship/job/whatever because of what they said, or whatever. That unknown can pretty chilling while costing very little to maintain. (A lot less than trying to execute everyone who disaggrees, and creates less martyrs.)
And all this mining phone calls and social sites (a lot do have personal information, e.g., dating sites) has the potential to create a chilling effect of epic proportions. Is John speaking out against the new fascist government? Well, then better make sure you're not on his friends list or calling him every week. You don't want to have _that_ on your file, now do you? If you're an employer, better get rid of him on your own, because otherwise, you know, that relationship goes on your file too. Plus, you know they'll make a connection every time he calls you to take a sick day, or you call him to ask why the server isn't up. Better not risk losing a fat government contract just because you're associating with and employing undesirables.
Does that have to be accurate and filtered clean of character assassination bullshit? No, it's probably better if it isn't. Might get some people thinking they already have plenty of bogus or inaccurate stuff on their file anyway, so all the more reason not to add real stuff to it too. Better keep low and try not to trip their radar, than have to explain which stuff is bogus and which isn't
Re:Standard Waste of Our Tax $ (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, I do hope they use a lit
scewing their data (Score:3, Insightful)
In fact, you probably already broke the law just for posting an article counseling how to obstruct the NSA datamining program.
Someon
Welcome to.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Welcome to.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The NSA's been intercepting & analysing any communications it can get its hands on since its inception.
Nothing new here, and its been going on since long before 1984 (although george was smart seeing it coming in '48).
Re:Welcome to.. (Score:3, Insightful)
In 1984, I think you could not turn off the TV. In 2006, you can turn off your computer and TV and go outside.
You are not sp
Re:Welcome to.. (Score:2)
George Orwell
Just not feeling it today... (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, as much as I'd like to get all worked up about this issue and fire off another foamy-mouthed diatribe about the pervasiveness of government surveillance, Big Brother, etc., etc., I'm having difficulty justifying it. After all, this information is being posted out there, specifically for others to view. If you put a sign in your front yard declaring how much you hate the government, you shouldn't act too surprised when the government reads it.
Re:Just not feeling it today... (Score:2)
Re:Just not feeling it today... (Score:2)
What do you mean by "... should be a friend of a friend or attend OSU..."? As far as I know, I can do a name search on Facebook for whomever I
Re:Just not feeling it today... (Score:4, Interesting)
If you put a sign in your front yard declaring how much you hate the government, you shouldn't act too surprised when the government reads it.
True... but if you put personal data up on the Internet for everyone to see, hoping to attract like-minded individuals and get your personal ideas and beliefs out into the main stream, you really don't expect the Federal Government to take that information, process, and try to link you to nefarious doings, do you? Mind you, I think it's a poor idea to put too much correct personal information out there, because it's not just government snoops you have to worry about. Still, given the fact that it's easy to string together unrelated information to make a plausible case (prosecutors do this a lot), you have to wonder just how the Feds might misinterpret your information and calim your involvement in something you have nothing to do with. Remember, we interned Japanese-Americans during WWII, not because they were spies, but just because of their Japanese ancestry.
Re:Just not feeling it today... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I was in high school in the late 60s (yes, I'm THAT old) we knew that pictures were being taken of all of us at the anti-war rallies. For those of us on a stage from time to time, we were pretty darn sure we weren't going to be allowed to run for governor any time soon.
Yes, but those pictures would be placed in a physical file, then dumped in a filing cabinet somewhere, to languish and moulder until someone thought to try and use the data in it for some purpose, where they would have to drag it out, collate and coordinate it with data from god-knows how many other files.
We're talking the use of high-speed computers running efficient data mining algorithms which could potentially sift through billions of pieces of data and track trends in matters of hours, not weeks or months. Not to mention, data would constantly be added, and the trends updated on a daily basis. And you wouldn't be going to any rallies to have this done to you -- it could swept out of your blog or right off your personal MySpace page. And even though you haven't a traitorous bone in your body, these data mining algorithms could link your data to the data gleaned from others and create what amounts to a case that you're party to something you're not.
Think of the recommendations Amazon makes when you purchase something: they track trends in the purchase of items, and make suggestions about other items that others have purchased when they purchased the item you've selected. Now take that and expand it.
The New COINTELPRO (Score:5, Interesting)
This is scary. Just because this information is out there doesn't mean the government should datamine it or act on it. Even in public, one has a reasonable assumption that one won't be stalked or spied upon. Besides, this is a complete waste of resources that could go to doing soemthign effective to fight terrorism. But the powers that be honestly don't want that. If you are selling security, you have to make sure people feel insecure.
Re:The New COINTELPRO (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The New COINTELPRO (Score:3, Insightful)
He
First Post (Score:5, Funny)
And what has the NSA learned from this?
That I'm a lazy, self-aggrandizing slashdot reader with way too much time on my hands.
Re:First Post (Score:4, Funny)
with way too much time on my hands
That's nothing! You should see what they're finding in MY hands on the internet!
Less false positives? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Less false positives? (Score:2)
Facebook (Score:2)
Hey I like it! (Score:5, Funny)
I have no problem with it (Score:2, Insightful)
How many times have you heard myspace on the news in a negative way? (except for "on the money", where they talk about how much it's wor
Public info (Score:5, Insightful)
But this does absolutely nothing for national security - which is the namesake of the agency. If a hate site goes up and government starts watching it to see if they're promoting violence, then fine. But creating profiles of everyone online is pointless. I'm sure they already have systems that scour the web and raise red flags. But putting my name and profile into a database at the NSA does nothing to aid security (I promise
Re:Public info (Score:2)
Re:Public info (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got a terrorist repellant rock that's worked just as well, it's even driven a
This would be unreliable (Score:5, Insightful)
or am I missing something?
This is why we're fighting against REAL ID as well (Score:5, Insightful)
Add in RFID chipped drivers licenses (not to mention the new passports which DO use RFID), and you have the making of a complete "We know who you are, who you hang out with, and where you were last night" totalitarian tracking system.
This is why many of us are moving to New Hampshire, joining the http://freestateproject.org/ [freestateproject.org], and working against these things. We nearly stopped New Hampshire from participating in REALID (the Republican Senators are selling out the state for a mere $3 million...) and we're not done yet.
Re:This is why we're fighting against REAL ID (Score:3, Informative)
We had a wide range of supporters, Left and Right, Atheist and Christian, all working together to help stop this....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023 976923577 [google.com]
Re:This is why we're fighting against REAL ID as w (Score:3, Interesting)
How do you sleep at night, NSA workers? (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, as a citizen of this great country, I couldn't sleep at night if I were personally responsible in some way for collecting and aggregating this information.
Re:How do you sleep at night, NSA workers? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know a guy who applied to the NSA. I don't know wheth
Myspace (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, because terrorists use MySpace (Score:4, Insightful)
Disagree? When was the last time that you saw a terrorist on a social network like MySpace, posting hints about their desire to terrorize others? What are the odds that they would even join, since terrorism is more difficult the more exposed you are on "the grid?"
Osama does! (Score:3, Funny)
Why, just today, in fact. See [myspace.com]?
It's an ideal solution (Score:2)
We should all be relieved! (Score:2)
We should expect that actually. (Score:5, Interesting)
I got worked up about this a while ago and the hard truth is that free speech is just that --free! We all are big kids and have spoken on the Internet. If what we have written is defensible, then we can expect to live by it. Those of us older school netizens are very likely to understand this and post accordingly. I honestly worry about the current generation however. It's difficult to differentiate casual speech where feelings are expressed in less than flattering ways from more serious speech with some measure of intent behind it.
Which again brings me back to some worry where this administration is concerned. The fact that they are looking to do this because they can suggests to me the motivation is less than pure. Honestly, why bother unless there is some benefit to all of us for doing it. Afterall we are the ones paying the bill.
We, as a people, are reaching a general state of unrest --and we've got reasons for that. The Internet empowers us to trancend the ordinary media channels and exercize our role in ways that make established power channels nervous. Real change brings with it some accountability for those gaming the system toward their own ends. Given their position, this is a perfectly logical reaction.
A government doing the right things, that has the high ground where justifying it's actions is concerned, has little reason for efforts like this. Take this as strong evidence this is not the case with our current leadership.
So, even though we have all spoken on the net and technically should not worry because it's all legal, I say there is some cause for worry for the accountability factor. (Not us, our leadership.)
Here's the takeaway: If you want to speak, in this connected day and age, on matters of government, you had better make sure what you write is defensible and that you have the high ground in your convictions. If not, you will be marginalized at some time in the future if your activities merit the effort. That sucks, but that's gonna be the way it is until such time as we elect a solid government that will modify existing legislation to keep such activities in check. Trust me, this particular one is just not ever going to do that.
The good news, IMHO, is that this same connected power that puts us in an exposed position also permits us to work together toward solid reform that is in our best interests! Best to take serious advantage of that now, before the advantage is lost, or legislated away. Is there no longer any doubt about the true intent of net neutrality? Sure, money is the big driver here, but so is speech! The blogs, for better or worse, have made complete fools of the established media channels and a growing number of people grok that now. (Why the hell did it take so long?)
We see our attorney general saying he is open to the idea of prosecution for whistle blowers, our President and Vice have claimed to be above the law and cloak pretty much everything in secrecy, our global actions are more self-serving than ever, recent court appointees are screened for their deference to established power channels, and our expectation of privacy is being marginalized under the ruse of greater security. (God damm it, a whole lotta people have no fucking backbone!) --And there is more, but hey --I've gotta work you know?
Show me some benefit and I'll ignore this whole thing. Until then, it's probably safe to say this will be used to marginalize any potential challengers to the current status quo politically.
Despite this, I personally will continue to speak. Our speech lies at the core of our freedom. Stay quiet and all is lost. Join me, put aside your fear they cultivate and speak your mind --just be sure it's true and just. --eventually we all will be better for it, IMHO.
I for one ... (Score:3, Funny)
Why is this a big thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, the issue is not the NSA is doing this. The issue is the NSA appears to be doing this from publically available information. Or, as the first line of the article puts it:
"I AM continually shocked and appalled at the details people voluntarily post online about themselves." So says Jon Callas, chief security officer at PGP, a Silicon Valley-based maker of encryption software.
Finding the bad guys (Score:3, Interesting)
Federal Profiles (Score:3, Interesting)
As-if the federal gov't didn't already have personal information about all of it's citizens and most non-citizens. I mean come on guys - let's not spin another scare tactic. Social Security numbers - the fed has access to your criminal records, financial records, work records, purchase records, etc. This has been the case for many many years - way before the Internet.
This is nothing new. The only thing we need to do is to make sure the gov't does not misuse the information. Yes there are cases where it has been misused, and in instances where it was maliciously done so we should punish the culprits so heavily as to scare the crap out of any would-be evil-doer. In the case of accident, fix the mistake and put in prevantative measures.
Re:Won't someone think of the children???? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think there are two aspects to this. The first is the mining if information which is subvertly obtained. An example of this is the ATT monitoring case - this is not appropriate and assumes everyone guilty. As to your point, most people I t