Microsoft Talks Daily With Your Computer

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft Corp. acknowledged Wednesday that it needs to better inform users that its tool for determining whether a computer is running a pirated copy of Windows also quietly checks in daily with the software maker. The company said the undisclosed daily check is a safety measure designed to allow the tool, called Windows Genuine Advantage, to quickly shut down in case of a malfunction." The EULA is suppose to disclose this daily call-in feature. Lauren Weinstein, who is co-founder of People for Internet Responsibility, was one of the first people to notice the daily communications to Microsoft. Report from Yahoo.com"

Minor edit

The EULA is suppose to

That should be 'supposed'. What happened to the 'd'?

disclosed this

Oh, there it is.

remote deauthorization

if microsoft can remotely 'unlegitimize' a copy of windows,
couldn't a virus or worm massively remotely cripple loads of machines
by exploiting this...?

Re:remote deauthorization

Actually it can, quite easily... with administrative rights, it can cripple most of your registry and many drivers/dlls (even those unchecked by Windows) and then reboot the machine :) that would work quite efficiently.

The goal of many viruses is not to destroy stuff, but simple other goals such as:

• Make money over advertisement (adware).
• Botnets, in order to attain other goals (DoS, attacks, etc)
• Get passwords, credit cards number and other information which could be useful.
• Leave a message (think MSBLAST.exe kind). What better way to tell "I <3 you" than with the gift of a virus?

A destroyed installation of Windows does not serve much...

Confused

Then, on a certain date (sadly, 6/6/06, although very symbolic, passed without any such occurence)

Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?

• American way : June 6th 2006
  
• European way : 6th June 2006
  
• Asian way : 2006 June 6th
  
• Alien way : 6th 2006 June
  

When all numbers are below 12, it's quite hard to get a clue ;)
Is it even 2006 ? 1906 and 1006 fits in too...

Re:Confused

Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?

Alien way : 6th 2006 June

Ah, you have much to learn, young one...

You were hoping to discern my location, political orientation and whatnot based on my date format?

Do you really think I would let on that I'm an alien in such an obvious way?

When you see a flying saucer in front of your house, that's when you'll know we've come for you...

Re:remote deauthorization

It has been happening. And still it wont change anything. For a simple reason people will not get fired for choosing Microsoft.
You install Windows it gets hacked or a virus infects the network then that is considered a risk of using a computer. If they installed Linux or some lesser known OS. It gets hacked or a worm hits it or it crashes for some reason even it if it minor, I am sure you will have a serious talking to with your managers at best, and they may possibly fire you especially if you really fought hard to get this platform in.

Virus scenario

A virus could use one of the "Product-Key Changer" scripts (see http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=328874 [microsoft.com]) to install a pirated product key on every infected computer (whiping all traces of the original key).

This would render millions of genuine installations indistinguishable from pirated installations. What a mess for Microsoft! They would have to immediately "kill forever" the WGA helper, and maybe even remove the WGA check on Windows Update.

Such a virus would be a hard lesson to learn for the writers of all kinds of automated "genuine" checks.

Regards,
M.

What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

... quickly shut down in case of a malfunction.

So Genuine Advantage needs to contact the mothership in order to be told that it's broken and needs to terminate?

Please.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

I haven't had it happen, but maybe this [vnunet.com] is what you're looking for?

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

And since I run a legit corporate copy, it's staying blocked.

... but if you ran a stolen corporate copy, you'd unblock it? ;-)

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

My Sygate got the beast on the fly and there wasn't any registry key that started it... So I couldn't block it from starting at each boot. So I simply renamed the file and I have not any trouble since that :D

The file is in the system32 directory and the filename is : "WgaTray.exe". I simply renamed it :"WgaTray.bak" and it left my alone :D

Hope this help. Chow

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

I'm sorry, but you've completely missed the point. I don't want my computer talking to Microsoft daily. I don't believe Microsoft has any right to know what's going on with my computer. My software is a legal copy and if they want to check that when I download updates, I'll tolerate that, but it shouldn't be sliently calling home.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

And luckily, you have that choice, but I am afraid it is you that has missed the point. Microsoft owns that software, not you. You are merely licensed to use it. By agreeing to the EULA and continuing to use Windows, you agree to whatever conditions Microsoft sets forth. The best part of it is that you *pay* for the honor of doing so. If you disagree with Microsoft's actions, you are free to use another operating system or office suite or what have you. I just wonder when that final choice will disappear; imagine if the EULA had a clause that stated, in legalese, "...and I further agree to only run Microsoft Operating Systems on this PC from this point forward". You know, all in the name of allowing Microsoft to provide better support, etc. No reason not to add a clause like that, really...

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

The number of people like you who attribute such unimaginable power to a text file on their screen is mind boggling. According to you, by clicking my mouse button, Microsoft really COULD take my first-born.

Signature? Nope. Pre-sales agreement? Nope. Teeth? HELL no.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

You own the copy of the media on which the software was delivered to you; you don't own the software itself. You are merely licensed to use it.

Hence, you can resell the media (yours) and the license (yours) but you can't duplicate the software and sell it (not yours!).

It would be interesting to see what Microsoft would do if EULAs were ruled unenforceable; I suspect that they would simply send you out a paper contract in advance of the software, which you would have to read, sign, and return, before they would ship you anything. That's actually SOP for some big enterprise software packages: they don't do their licensing via click-thrus, but rather through contracts signed by the legal parties involved ahead of deployment. Really that's the way it ought to be done -- people would whine about it being an "inconvenience," but at least you could walk away if the agreement looked like crap and not have to worry about getting a refund. I suspect though that at least in some Districts, that EULAs will be found to be quite valid, however, since in theory you can disagree and take the computer/software back for a refund.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

"If you disagree with Microsoft's actions, you are free to use another operating system or office suite or what have you".

And there you have it. As more and more users come to understand the legal facts of the matter, as expounded in this thread, they will have a strong incentive to adopt other operating systems that cost less and impose less unreasonable conditions.

In this context it is interesting to note that the difference between Windows and Linux is steadily being eroded. Indeed, in some ways Linux is distinctly superior; but the key point is that its weaknesses relative to Windows (read: buying objections) are rapidly disappearing. SuSE, to which I am in the process of migrating, is easier to install than Windows; just as efficient; more flexible; and, AFAICS, just as easy to use once you get used to it (which takes a few days). On the plus side, it's far less expensive, offers far better support, and is open and extensible.

Applications used to be a deal-breaker, but I have been using OpenOffice.org recently and it is, if anything, better than Office for my purposes. (Admittedly, I still have Office 97 which is arguably inferior to Office 2003, but why should I shell out big bucks every few years for what is essentially the same product?) Quicken used to be an issue, until Intuit suddenly withdrew from the UK market at the same time as my copy of Quicken mysteriously stopped working. So now there is really no reason why I would prefer Windows to Linux.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

But until EULAs are upheld, AND the individual bullshit provisions of them are upheld, then they are still bullshit and I can consider them bullshit. Some lawyer correct me if I'm wrong, but if I buy a car from you and you make me sign a contract, and I hand you the money... and you refuse to give me the car, pointing out the fine print that I had apparently agreed to fellate you daily and kill your in-laws, and you argue that since I haven't done these things I'm in breech of contract and you don't have to deliver the car OR return my money, you would be wrong on both counts... you would not be able to enforce the egregious demands of the contract, PLUS you would still be liable to deliver the car.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

By agreeing to the EULA and continuing to use Windows, you agree to whatever conditions Microsoft sets forth.

uhh.... wrong! EULAs are not actually legal contracts. They are non binding and non-enforcable. Try again, thanks for playing.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

Incorrect. The Seventh Circuit found that a shrink wrap license (EULA) is an enforceable software license [bitlaw.com].

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

According to some comments on a webpage posted earlier in the thread (hunt for it), people have been incorrectly accused of having non-genuine versions of Windows when they actually have completly paid for versions. If this is true then one day turning on their computer to find it's formated and not working will probably piss them off, even more if they realise it was Microsoft that did it. Also someone might deside to write some malware which fools the program into telling Microsoft that the copy of Windows is pirated, a while later Microsoft will go ahead and do the damage for them.

Whether or not Windows is or isn't the best OS to have, these people chose to pay their money to Microsoft and the excuse "It'll teach some pirates a lesson" is not enough to waste their time and money.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

Last week my "genuine" copy of Windows was accused of being pirated when I accidentally changed the date on my computer. There was no way to fix it, I spoke with several members of Windows customer support who could not help me and transfered me in a complete circle ending up with the original number that I called. I had to reinstall windows, hoping it would help and that I wouldn't lose everything (since I was prevented from accessing windows during this time). Reinstalling (repairing existing installation) helped but I still got the "not genuine windows" warning until I changed the date back to the correct date.

Thank you, Microsoft! :(

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

The skanky copies of XP have a prog that fires randomly generated license codes at the server until it finds one that works. That means that when a skanky copy works a genuine copy ceases to work. It is simply a matter of who gets there first. With all these skanky copies using up so many genuine license codes it is not surprising that so many people are getting pissed off. Despite what the post further down says I have tried this out and found the prog worked well and did not cause any noticable delay. That is not to say that I advocate the use of such progs and in fact I personally would not use XP on a machine that is actually connected to the internet and only use Linux for the net except to try certain things out.

I am running...

I am running 3 copies of WinXP, and own 5 legal licenses. I still don't want MS invading my privacy. If the only thing your worried about is whether it annoys you or not, you shouldn't mind your neighbor putting a web cam in your shower as long as he covers the little red light.

Re:Old News

WTF? This isn't old news. Every time I have downloaded this to do installations on the computers we setup at work it says very clearly it performs a "one time check". When did "one time check" become every day? Microsoft is fucking scum.

Marketing opportunity

And how long until their regular check-in procedure for whether or not your computer is running legal copies of software morphs into a marketing opportunity by linking your ip address to your windows registration for tracking purposes? It would be the ultimate cookie, since it could essentially link every Windows user on the internet to the purchaser of the windows license, no matter where the computer moves to. Companies would leap all over this database in backroom deals, since it could allow advertisers or other companies to know the full identity of users the moment they bring up a page.

Re:Marketing opportunity-- then you hire

to make a tool to trash the cookies. Send back spurious, useless, marketer-crashing rubbish that calls their ENTIRE database into question. FUCKEM. With the exception of the copyright works of others, the data on MY computer is MINE. EVEN the fucking so-called copyright-protected cookies. If they generate cookie data with MY surfing habits, and I'm not getting PAID by them to use my info, then I will continue to trash, delete, or block cookies and their entire fucking domains.

I REGULARLY look at who is behind ANY new IP address, and I DO block entire domains. I don't know how many INDIVIDUALS have over 200 sites on their blacklist, but I do. When doubledick (among others), for instance, gets cute and scarfs up chunks if in-between addresses in random domains, I block the sub-domain if it's interfering TOO much with my surfing. But, in battle against some of these fucks, I DO tolerate 10-60 second page loads. I don't block EVERY company out there, just the big, fat-footed ones whom I suspect of mass-selling surfing information.

Thank YOU LINUX/OS devs and W3C: You helped me not have to surf with with ms crap at home.

BTW, IS THERE a cookie-corruption tool that will decrypt them so I can see what it is trying to do? Is there a way to defeat any checksums so that I can insert crap or taint the call-back numbers in the cookies? This would be so I can misdirect them and be part of a cookie-trashing movement. I'm not looking to gain unauthorized ACCESS, I want to DEAUTHORIZED and DESTROY most of the cookies. Not the ones to my e-mail providers, just the ones to sites I don't have any relationships with. I'm SICK of those who say cookies are harmless. Next, we need to root out those 1x1 pixels and taint them, too. Then the crawlers stuff, and whatever else that comes along.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

Whilst I generally agree that it is indeed bullshit, it is possible to imagine the scenario in which, for some reason, there is a bug in Genuine Advantage which leads to a denial of access to the Windows Update service for legitimately registered users.

I have often wondered whether Steam has a similar feature - if Valve goes bankrupt, for instance, does it release you from the (ridiculous) copy protection/licensing arrangements put in place when you install Half Life 2 and other products?

The best way to do any of this would be to simply check if the parent company's server is still there and able to provide authentication/updating. If it is unavailable for some reason the local software should function autonomously, as it always should, but without the need for approval from the parent.

Of course the *real* best solution is to stop trying to monitor usage on a micro-level and just make good products at a reasonable price. As has been demonstrated over and over again, this is the way to stop piracy.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

I hate that tool...it seems like it is the only update that gets pulled down regularily. It pulls itself down and gets installed when I finally relent to it (since I am in no hurry to update it, even though updates come out all of the time) but then it wants me to restart. That's all fine and dandy, I'll let it do its business the next time I feel like restarting.

Oh, whats this? It pops up every 10 minutes asking me to reboot and gives me no option like "remind me tomorrow"

Come on microsoft...dont force me to sit through this shit on nonessential updates

This is why you should have set it to:

"Notify me but don't automatically download or install them". (In Control Panel -> System -> Automatic Updates.)

Then you can pick and choose which updates you want, and when you decline one, it pops up a message in which you can check "Never ask me again".

Too late for those who trusted Microsoft, though...now you have to do a lot of registry tweaks and stuff [blogspot.com].

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

OK. I agree It's total BS. Anyone here remember win98 1st ed phone home info disclosure (on connect to windows update)? Oh and they forgot to disclose that in the EULA too.

Same tricks, different year.

However it's not like Redhat's Up2date doesn't phone home daily too. Oh and doesn't it NOT allow you to automagically install patches unless you have current support agreement (which you could rotate between servers if you had one).

I only happen to know because a certain software vendor likes to use RHEL (maybe they're just rolling back prices like walmart).

I guess that's within the rules (but they're still scumbags)?

I run Fedora.

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

I think all of this comes under the heading of "yes the technology permits it, but is it something we really should be doing?"

Re:What kind of bullshit excuse is this?

Well if anyone can come up with a unexpected and creative solution to that problem, it's you :)

Yeah, just reverse the polarity on your firewall, and send an inverse tachyon pulse on a rotating Heisenberg frequency spread though port 228.

But that's, like, second semester Academy stuff, so don't be too impressed.

Whoa!

Just one more reason NOT to use Windows as my operating system!

I'm protected.

*wraps computer in tin foil and duct tape*

BRING IT ON!!!

XP Phone Home!

XP Phone Home!

Ethereal anyone?

Anyone sniff out the offending packets yet? I'm sure they can't be too hard to identify. Probably simple HTTP posts.

If nobody has I'll sniff anything going to Microsoft's Class B (207.46.*.*) later tonight.
--
From Northern Virginia? Visit Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]! (Just added: Fairfax County wiki, need submissions)

Re:Ethereal anyone?

Or better yet, you can just prevent those packets from ever reaching their destination.

The DOS command route -p add 207.46.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 [192.168.0.254] (replace the address in brackets with a random address on your current subnet) will permanently route all would-be "phone home" packets to the random address that you specified.
 
... You could also, of course, use a firewall, but where's the fun in that? ;-)