A DNA Database For All U.S. Workers?

fragmer writes "New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg suggested a plan on Wednesday that would establish a DNA or fingerprint database to track and verify all legal U.S. workers. The mayor said DNA and fingerprint technology could be used to create a worker ID database that will 'uniquely identify the person' applying for a job, ensuring that cards are not illegally transferred or forged. Bloomberg compared his proposed federal identification database to the Social Security card, insisting that such a system would not violate citizens' privacy and was not a civil liberties issue."

Oh Orwell

[r_jensen11 (598210)]

The power lies with the proles.

Re:Oh Orwell

[voice_of_all_reason (926702)]

Actually, power lies with guns (as it always has), whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive that it is the Duty of the People to alter or abolish it.

Re:Hey look, a gun nut.

[johansalk (818687)]

You're right. Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan had guns and, by golly, the bravest men any battlefield might've seen. What happened to them? B-52s flying in round-the-world-trips carpet-bombed them and their entire camp areas into oblivion. What remained of them wherever they were encountered in skirmishes were within hours of battle starting anihilated by rockets coming from submarines emerging thousands of miles away in the middle of the ocean and then submerging again. How can you fight that?! If Al-Qaeda fighters, tough, hardened, passionate and insane, couldn't do it, then I very much doubt an American civil movement could; Americans were reared on an everyman-for-himself capitalist culture, and good luck to anyone who may try to summon in them the sort of passion, irrational dedication and resolve required for a revolution. You can't even convince Americans to care enough about their fellow citizens to adopt universal healthcare, let alone a revolution. And if anyone thinks the US government won't use violence to suppress internal dissent, then look back at what they did to the leftist movements of the 1960s, they broke their back, they used live amunition on campus grounds to shoot demonstrators.

Yeah, we really wiped them out...

[cyberwench (10225)]

What do you mean, "what remained of them"?

The Taliban is still a strong presence in Afghanistan, they're far from being defeated. They're not running the _entire_ country anymore, but they're certainly not gone. The troops still there are trying to build up an infrastructure while defeating the Taliban, and it's not going all that hot. It's NATO troops there now, by the way. This really should be common knowledge - I know Iraq is the "in" country right now, but that certainly doesn't mean Afghanistan's done with.

Are you STUPID? You must be stupid.

[raehl (609729)]

Iraqi insurgents HAVE guns. They have PILES of guns. They *CHOOSE* not to use them because they ARE NOT EFFECTIVE.

The insurgents would be doing us a HUGE FAVOR if they started using guns. Why? Because then we would know who the insurgents were - they're the guys shooting at us - and we'd know where they are - in the building the bullets are coming from! Then we just drop a bomb on the building, problem solved.

Instead, the insurgents avoid using guns and instead use bombs. Why? Because when a bomb kills your troops, the bomb doesn't tell you who or where the insurgent is.

That's the problem with you gun nuts - you have absolutely no concept of tactics. You think that "Oo, I can shoot the other guy, I win!" The other guy is thinking "Oo, I can drop a bomb on the other guy, I win!" and HE is right.

Insurgents in Iraq are not causing all this damage DESPITE not using guns, they're causing it BECAUSE they don't use guns.

The insurgents who thought they could fight the US with guns are already dead. Only the insurgents who use bombs are left, because they're never around to be killed.

but it IS an issue.

[Dutchmaan (442553)]

"Bloomberg compared his proposed federal identification database to the Social Security card, insisting that such a system would not violate citizens' privacy and was not a civil liberties issue."

Just by saying that, he's acknowledging that its a civil liberties issue.

Beyond the Civil Liberties issues ...

[khasim (1285)]

Does this moron know how much it would COST to do that? We're talking a DNA sample from every working age adult (15 to ...?).

Just WHAT is this supposed to give us? Are employers who currently hire illegal aliens suddenly going to pay for DNA/fingerprinting of their employees to find out if they're legal?

Or is this another expense for the immigration department / police departments? Will they have to check the DNA of everyone they arrest on immigration issues?

That guy is an idiot.

Even without the Civil Liberty issues, this idea would be too expensive to implement and yield NOTHING.

It looks like "immigration" is this year's "child porn". All you politicians need to get on "immigration" today!

Re:Beyond the Civil Liberties issues ...

[David Gould (4938)]

Perhaps a better solution would be to simply tattoo a serial number on everybody's arm -- it'd be functionally equivalent, but much cheaper to implement.

Re:Beyond the Civil Liberties issues ...

[Shelled (81123)]

Good idea. Let's test it on the families of politicians first. They believe most strongly in the concept.

Re:Beyond the Civil Liberties issues ...

[mcpkaaos (449561)]

Sure. Right after they sign their kids up to go to Iraq.

nonsense

[Scudsucker (17617)]

Just take a look at the architects of the Iraqi invasion and it's biggest backers - all people that did not serve in the military (many took multiple deferments such as Cheney) and do not have family members serving in Iraq.

If Bush, Cheney, Rummsfield and GOP leaders in Congress all had sons or daughters in the service who would have been on the front lines, maybe they really would have treated war as a last resort rather than planning on invading Iraq from day 1. Maybe they would have made plans to secure the country after ousting Saddam instead of ignoring historians who predicted violent resistance to any occupation. Maybe they would have been a little less eager to legalize tourture if they knew their family members could be patrolling the streets of Baghdad and the information leaked out. Invading Iran might not even be on the table of discussion if it meant sending Jr. out on his 4th tour of duty. But no, they've only risked other peoples lives, other peoples sons and daughters.

Far from being a "tired argument", you could hardly find one more relevant.

Is anyone else getting sick of this pattern?

[rob_squared (821479)]

1. Government notices problem.
2. Media takes problem, makes it a big news story.
3. Government takes problem and introduces legislation that does more to restrict ordinary law-abiding citizens.
4. Profit (More Power)

How many years was illegal immigration going on and companies using them (persumably this DNA database will be designed to curtail that)? And when exactly did the government/news decide to make it a central issue? The governemnt must have seen what a great tool fear, distrust, and anger were to gain power for themselves.

Re:If anything...

[symbolic (11752)]

If anything, we should have learned from the disaster that the use of our social security number has become. It started out with a use that was extremely limited in scope, and has since become a nearly universal identifier for all kinds of information about us- all without our permission, and in many cases, our knowledge. The proliferation of its abuse is now why we're faced with issues like identity theft.

This point cannot be emphasized enough: once something like this becomes a problem, it's too late. Have you seen any "solution" to identity theft? Didn't think so. The only effective response is to slam the door closed on these kinds of ideas, and weld it shut.

Re:If people think it is a civil liberties issue .

[noidentity (188756)]

"If people think it is a civil liberties issue, it is a civil liberties issue."

I'm sorry, I think you need to submit for re-education. The government has said it's not a civil liberties issue; what more proof do you need?

Re:If people think it is a civil liberties issue .

[kimvette (919543)]

They DO realize it.

It's the princple of: Tell a lie loud enough, often enough and long enough and the people will eventually believe it to be true."

Most people believe the Patriot Act is necessary and constitutional. Why should they not buy this new lie? It pisses me off that even many small-government conservatives believe that limiting rights in exchange for a vague promise of safety is necessary, let alone even remotely acceptable.

And the Star of David...

[nick_davison (217681)]

Requiring all Jewish residents to register as such and wear a Star of David on their shirts is also just a purely administrative aid, to stop people cheating the system and could never be used as a real civil liberties issue either.

I wish people would learn that we can trust the government simply because they tell us we can.

Re:And the Star of David...

[ultranova (717540)]

And I wish that people would remember that Government works for us and we give them their power.

No. The monopoly on violence the government holds gives it power. Specifically, the backing of armed forces - US Army - is what gives the US Government its power. You have power over it only when you have a real chance of overthrowing it; at that point the government might listen out of self-preservation. Democracy was supposed to ensure that the public always has this power, and can use it in a bloodless manner, but it's working less and less well.

I don't know if there's a solution. As soon as humans band together into large enough groups you need government to keep them from killing each other; but since that government needs to hold near-total monopoly on violence to accomplish this and is made from human beings it will inevitably end up abusing its power. Any attempt to stop this process only slows it down; and even if you stop the actual government from growing out of control, it simply provides a power vacuum for aristocracy or corporations / robber parons to do it instead.

Maybe it's the nature of human race that we must have revolutions every few generations to keep things working.

Too many folks act like they're subjects of the Government.

The correct term, I believe, is consumer.

Re:And the Star of David...

[cliffski (65094)]

Revolutions shouldnt be neccesary (which is good, because sicne the age of the pitchfork has changed to the age of the apache helicopter, peasant revolts have got waaaay harder). What is needed is a more participatory democracy. You need
a) everyone to vote
b) every vote to count
c) people to vote based on impartial information

A) can be done by legal means, b) requires proportional representation and c) requires major shakeups in party funding, political advertising etc.

Nobody has this perfect, but australians HAVE to vote by law, and even the almost-as-bad-as-the-us UK has a ban on political TV and radio adverts. I like to think that acts as a good limit to the extent to which politicians can brain wash us into believeing what they say.

People don't see electoral reform as a major issue, but I'd suggest it is THE issue, because once its fixed, the chances of getting everything else fixed is totally transformed.

Re:And the Star of David...

[kimvette (919543)]

Actually we have term limits already; it's called an election.

Unfortunately, much like mod points, people throw their vote away because their candidate is "cute" or "likeable" despite the fact that he's a corrupt piece of shit.

Privacy Violation

[massivefoot (922746)]

Well I would certainly feel that my privacy was being violated. My DNA is private, thank you very much, and the state most certainly does not have a right to the details of it. It would be nice to think that this is the sort of suggestion that would lose a politician his job, but I have a bad feeling that some will find it rather popular.

Re:Privacy Violation

[everett (154868)]

Simple solution, copyright your DNA sequence and then sue anyone that obtains it illegally for copyright infringement, since this is America you will win.

And what else will employers be screening for?

[Dogun (7502)]

I see this as a women's rights issue, in addition to the obvious 'they looked at our DNA!' complaint.

No employer is ever going to just take a single hair or a few skin scrapings. They're going to want blood, and more than just a finger prick. If they do that before getting back to you with a decision, they could be screening for, say... PREGNANCY. SSRI's. Who knows what.

Even if the system were perfect it would give employers a blank check to perform unwelcome and illegal tests on job applicants. And that just ain't cool.

Re:Social Security?

[jcr (53032)]

Not only that, the census bureau routinely promises that census data will not be used for any illegal purpose, and they even lie about the fact that it was used in the 1940s to round up american citizens of Japanese ancestry to ship them to concentration camps.

-jcr

Re:Tell that to 26.5 million US veterans...

[espressojim (224775)]

I agree that this data isn't something I want gathered (because trolling for criminals will be too easy). However, as a minor nitpick: you don't resequence the human genome for each individual. You test a relatively small number of single nucleotide polymorhpisms (SNPs) or microsattelite markers. The amount of markers needed is very small to establish uniqueness, and the cost is pretty low per person (it'll cost more to extract the blood and purify the dna than to run the genotyping.) Financially and technically this is very doable, but I don't think it SHOULD be done.

Re:Sounds Familiar

[TomHandy (578620)]

I think I see why they brought it up though. It's been a while since I've seen Gattaca, but as I recall, it did sort of make the point about where things would eventually go once you started doing this kind of thing. Gattaca seemed to propose a future where the initial genetic identification and modification was relatively harmless (using it for pretty good things like getting rid of diseases and genetic defects, etc.), which eventually led to a society built around getting rid of defective people as a whole or making life difficult for them. I think the point the above poster was making would be that you can start out with just one piece of the puzzle (i.e. a genetic database of every worker in the US), and it could end up being the framework for something much worse.