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Livejournal Bans Ad-Blocking Software

Posted by samzenpus on Thu Apr 20, 2006 01:01 AM
from the no-blocking-for-you dept.
Anonymous Emo writes "The community/blogging site LiveJournal recently introduced ads on some pages for free users. More interestingly, they also added a new restriction to their TOS (XVI 17 b.) banning users from using or providing ad-blocking software. The new TOS also permits them to immediately terminate the account of anyone they catch doing this."

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Slashback, as always, provides updates and clarifications to previous Slashdot stories. Tonight we bring you updates on Australian Smart ID Cards, the security danger that USB memory sticks pose, Wal-Mart's Wikipedia War, Lego Mindstorms, LiveJournal's stance on Ad-Blocking software, and news about 'Spam King' Alan Ralsky. Read on for more.
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  • Anticipated... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ossifer (703813) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:06AM (#15162907)
    I've been expecting this... Now we'll have to modify our ad blocking software to download and discard the ads that are currently ignored altogether.
    • Re:Anticipated... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Alkivar (25833) * on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:07AM (#15162911)
      (http://www.alkivar.com/)
      I wonder how long until the FireFox AdBlock guys make a work around (a week?)
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Anticipated... by DDLKermit007 (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:11AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by Joebert (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:13AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by truedfx (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:13AM
        • Re:Anticipated... by Thuktun (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:16PM
        • Re:Anticipated... (Score:5, Informative)

          by gavinchappell (784065) on Thursday April 20 2006, @02:51AM (#15163237)
          I think in Adblock Plus, it's known as the "Support Websites" option.

          Tools > Extensions > Adblock Plus > Adblock Options > Support Websites

          "The purpose of Adblock Ad Hiding is to allow you to support your favorite web site. By adding your favorite site to the list below the adverts will be downloaded and detected by the site as having been viewed."
          [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Anticipated... (Score:5, Informative)

        by geminidomino (614729) * on Thursday April 20 2006, @02:10AM (#15163127)
        (http://www.mangaschool.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday January 03 2006, @07:51AM)
        It's been in adblock for a long long time already. (That's the difference between Adblock's "Hide ads" and "Remove ads" options.)
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Anticipated... (Score:4, Interesting)

          It's been in adblock for a long long time already. (That's the difference between Adblock's "Hide ads" and "Remove ads" options.)

          Certainly, I'm glad a technical solution to this is already available, but if LiveJournal succeeds (that is, if they don't back down and people continue to visit their site(s)) the next step is forcing people to listen to the NOISE their ads create. An irritating fad in internet advertising is to have some kind of "audio branding" attached to pop-up/pop-over ads. I mute my computer speaker when surfing for this reason.

          What next? Being banned if you mute your speaker so the ads that make noise don't disturb the people sitting around you? A significant portion of internet usage goes on in office/computer lab settings, and if "using an adblocker" is reason enough for a lifetime ban from a web-site, how long until "Turning down the speaker" (or not having one at all) becomes a "bannable" offense. Sad to say it, but its only a matter of time before advert-supported content goes the way of the dinosaur.

          Look at radio: The ads became so invasive, and took up so much air-time, that now people are WILLING TO PAY for advert-free (or in some cases limited-advert) radio on XM and Sirius. To some extent, they've been doing it for years with NPR and other community supported radio stations on the terrestrial bands...
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:Anticipated... by assassinator42 (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @10:52AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by alc6379 (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @11:52AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by oconnorcjo (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:33PM
    • Re:Anticipated... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by daniel_newton (817437) on Thursday April 20 2006, @02:56AM (#15163254)
      Actually the first version of adblock did exactly that (downloaded the ads but hid them).

      It was a pain though because noone wanted to waste their bandwidth on the stinky ads.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Anticipated... by TheRaven64 (Score:3) Thursday April 20 2006, @06:59AM
        • Re:Anticipated... by Red Alastor (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @07:26AM
          • Re:Anticipated... (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Mouse42 (765369) on Thursday April 20 2006, @10:12AM (#15165018)
            I assume that people blocking ads aren't very likely to purchase from them in the first place. So if people who already are blocking ads now download and throw away, there will no change in the number of clicks, just more bandwith wasted.

            Interestingly, I find that this is not true. There are enough people who, although say they hate ads, also keep falling for them. It is one of the reasons why they hate them, because they know they're weak.

            Way back in the day before cable got to our area, my boss accessed the internet through AOL. He asked me how to remove the ads that AOL shows him every time he logs in.

            It turned out that AOL would show one or two ads as someone logged in and track their usage. If someone didn't ever click on them, they were no longer showed the ads. If someone clicked on them - or worse, bought something - then they would continue showing the ads.

            I questioned my boss, and it turned out he had not only bought several things, but regularly clicked on most of the ads and thoroughly read them.

            He wanted the ads stopped because they distracted him.

            These are precisely the people marketers are targetting. These are also precisely the people who would use ad blockers if they were knowledgable enough to get their hands on it.

            Ads on the internet would not nearly be as profitable as they are if an abundance of these people didn't exist.

            [ Parent ]
        • Re:Anticipated... by Kraeloc (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @04:41PM
    • The REAL issue by mwvdlee (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @03:06AM
      • Re:The REAL issue by PakProtector (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @03:41AM
      • Re:The REAL issue (Score:5, Interesting)

        by honkycat (249849) on Thursday April 20 2006, @04:07AM (#15163402)
        (http://www.borkbork.org/~bigjoe | Last Journal: Tuesday December 30 2003, @03:11PM)
        If they want to start charging you for the service, I imagine they would at minimum have to provide you with a reasonable amount of time to become aware of the change and accept/consent. More likely, they'd have to get a positive indication of your acceptance in order to begin billing you.

        However, unless they'd made an explicit commitment to allow you access to get your files off their servers, I don't see any reason why they couldn't just cut off your access entirely until you agree to pay for the service. Unless you're paying for the service already, it's unlikely they have any contractual obligations toward you.

        Ordinarily, contracts must be two-sided -- it's assumed that no one would enter into a contract if they don't receive some sort of consideration. If you're not paying, the service provider is hoping that your content will attract business through some other channel. I doubt that this very indirect "payment" would be seen as consideration unless there were an explicit agreement in place. I can't imagine any rational free service provider writing their contract to make that the case, either. In the eyes of the law, you're probably receiving a gift -- and the courts won't require a gift giver to keep giving a gift (barring some extremely bizarre circumstances, I imagine).

        Of course, IANAL... but I always assume any free service I use on the web (or anywhere else) is a fleeting thing that may vanish without notice. It generally seems fair to me, given that I'm getting something for nothing.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:The REAL issue by CleverBoy (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @05:17AM
        • Re:The REAL issue by mwvdlee (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @05:54AM
        • Re:The REAL issue by Zak3056 (Score:3) Thursday April 20 2006, @07:13AM
        • Re:The REAL issue by Kethryvis (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @09:34AM
        • Re:The REAL issue (Score:5, Informative)

          by pjrc (134994) <paul@pjrc.com> on Thursday April 20 2006, @10:02AM (#15164944)
          (http://www.pjrc.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 27 2002, @04:31PM)
          Wow, this generalized how-the-world-oughta-be post (moderated to +5) demonstrates a complete lack of awareness of the specifics of Livejournal.

          Its parent post is better, but equates this TOS change with "What if they suddenly insert a term that forces all their users to pay $100 a day or leave without even a change of retaining their data."

          Crazy!

          This is SO far off base from the reality of Livejournal.

          If they want to start charging you for the service, I imagine they would at minimum have to provide you with a reasonable amount of time to become aware of the change and accept/consent. More likely, they'd have to get a positive indication of your acceptance in order to begin billing you.

          Livejournal has offered both free and paid accounts for years.

          Livejournal has a long history of giving advanced notice about planned changes, and inviting discussion, and keeping things compatible

          On top of all that, the addition of ads is on an entirely new class of account. Yes, that's the truth. Rather than force ads onto everyone who has traditionally had ad-free accounts, they're leaving all those free accounts as they were, and adding a new class of account with a level of service above the free acct but below the paid acct, which is "paid" by the ads.

          That is the real truth here, which is easily verified by reading the news over on Livejournal.

          They're not suddenly forcing people to pay. They're not even changing the free accounts. And they DID talk about this for some time, in public, and invited discussion.

          My point is, the Livejournal folks are pretty good people, trying to do their best. You wouldn't know if from all this ranting here, but it's pretty easy to see if you go check out the site and read what they're doing.

          However, unless they'd made an explicit commitment to allow you access to get your files off their servers, I don't see any reason why they couldn't just cut off your access entirely until you agree to pay for the service. Unless you're paying for the service already, it's unlikely they have any contractual obligations toward you.

          What if, what if, what if, and so on.

          Livejournal has a very long history of great service. They have a great reputation, and it's a well deserved one.

          Back here in the real world, what matters is not so much what theoretically would or wouldn't matter in a court. Livejournal is one of many free/inexpensive services, which are almost universally used by individuals for personal communication. This just isn't the sort of thing that goes to court over a dispute. Any "mission critical" blog is going to be hosted using its own domain name.

          In reality, what matters is Livejournal's reputation, and that reputation depends mostly on how they treat their users, both free and paid. All this ranting is just nit picking about the TOS. What truly matters is what they actually DO. And I highly doubt it will be evil, given their very long history.

          There's just one last bit of profound-lack-of-perspective to comment on,

          Of course, IANAL... but I always assume any free service I use on the web (or anywhere else) is a fleeting thing that may vanish without notice. It generally seems fair to me, given that I'm getting something for nothing.

          Certainly a business would want to use its own domain name.

          But for individuals looking for a free service, Lifejournal has been operating for 7 years, and they have a successful business model based on maintaining free and paid accounts.

          Yeah, in theory they could vanish tomorrow. But that's about an unlikely as slashdot, yahoo, google, and every other MAJOR successful website offering free services suddenly doing dark.

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:The REAL issue by metamatic (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @10:29AM
        • Re:The REAL issue by stlhawkeye (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @12:03PM
        • Doesn't always happen by EvilStein (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @03:17PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:The REAL issue by mrjackson2000 (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @05:59AM
    • Re:Anticipated... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by moro_666 (414422) <martin.vision@ee> on Thursday April 20 2006, @03:11AM (#15163291)
      (http://www.slashdot.org/)
      you don't have to download and terminate the add :)

      well at least kindof ...

      you make the GET /banner/foo.gif query, but you just don't read the socket after that, you close it. this way there's no way for the server to tell if your connection just broke or you blocked the ad.

      livejournal people, please try to understand that this will never ever work.

      if they make a more complicated system on flash banners and javascript for checking if the user really got it, you can display the banner offscreen somewhere, so it won't be annoying you in the top of the page.

      worthless effort from the ad people. perhaps they should make banners worth to look at instead.
      [ Parent ]
      • Choose the right advertising provider (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Aceticon (140883) on Thursday April 20 2006, @05:57AM (#15163600)
        I personally follow the policy of only starting to block ads on a site when i'm confronted with obnoxious ads.

        Until i see moving (flash or gif, makes no difference), sound making or content hidding ads i'll keep the ads from a site visible. As soon as i see one of those obnoxious ads on my browser they (and all ads from the same provider) get blocked.

        Popups that manage to go around Firefox's pop-up protection are reason for me to block the whole site of the ad provider plus the one of the company whose advert is on that pop-up.

        It's a ballance between helping the sites i like to keep going on (and even make a profit) and enforcing the limits i've set for what are acceptable ads.

        To all web-site managers out there i say: Don't use ad providers that (try to) abuse the viewer's good will and you won't have any problems with having a steady revenue stream from advertising.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Anticipated... by laffer1 (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @10:45AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by moro_666 (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @06:49AM
      • Re:Anticipated... by moro_666 (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @12:11PM
      • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Anticipated... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Splab (574204) on Thursday April 20 2006, @04:04AM (#15163395)
      Some think it's funny, but you know what? The main reason why I use adblocking software is the adservers are f***ing slow! The whole site hangs while the browser waits for the servers to get around to responding to the request.

      If they want to make sure we watch the adds then dump them in the image dir ON THEIR OWN SERVERS! that way everything gets same speed and I wouldn't care, my brain filters out all the ads anyways.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Anticipated... by Oldsmobile (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @06:08AM
    • Re:Anticipated... by legirons (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @07:12AM
    • Re:Anticipated... by courtarro (Score:3) Thursday April 20 2006, @08:52AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • just for journal owners (Score:5, Informative)

    by hsenag (56002) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:06AM (#15162908)
    (http://www.earth.li/~ganesh/)
    A first reading of the ToS suggests that it is just journal *owners* who are banned from using styles etc to hide the ads from everyone. There's nothing to say that people *reading* the journal can't be running ad-blocking.
    • You sure? by coyotecult (Score:3) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:09AM
      • You have to read the entire contract (Score:5, Informative)

        by David Hume (200499) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:16AM (#15162959)
        (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPnJ-FXTmg)
        A first reading of the ToS suggests that it is just journal *owners* who are banned from using styles etc to hide the ads from everyone. There's nothing to say that people *reading* the journal can't be running ad-blocking.
        You sure?

        The relevant clause:

        17. Employ tactics and/or technologies to prevent the full and complete delivery or display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

        1. Making journal style changes, customizations, or overrides that effectively block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on a Sponsored+ account's Content or other pages within the Service.

        2. Employing and/or providing software programs, browser scripts, or other technologies that serve to block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages.
        You have to read the entire contract. It appears from the first several paragraphs that these limitations apply only to journal *owners* and not to readers:
        I. ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS

        LiveJournal, Inc., dba LiveJournal.com, ("LiveJournal") provides the following service to you, subject to these Terms of Service ("TOS"), which may be updated periodically without prior notice. You can review the current version of the TOS at: http://www.livejournal.com/legal/tos.bml [livejournal.com]. Failure to comply with these TOS may result in account revocation.

        II. DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE

        LiveJournal is a web-based service that allows its users to create and update online journals (herein referred to as "LiveJournal", or the "Service"). The Service may be used through a web browser or by the use of downloadable clients (the "Software"). Once registered with LiveJournal, each user receives his or her own journal space to post text, data, messages, or information concerning or linked to software, music, sound, photography, graphics, and video (the "Content"). This Content may reside on LiveJournal's servers or on the servers of a third party.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:You sure? by mcvos (Score:3) Thursday April 20 2006, @04:47AM
        • Re:You sure? by rark (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @03:40PM
    • Re:just for journal owners (Score:5, Informative)

      by LaurenBC (924800) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:09AM (#15162919)
      And above that, it's only if you choose to upgrade to a 'Sponsored+' account. Those of us continuing to use our plain old free accounts will be unaffected.
      [ Parent ]
      • You sure? by coyotecult (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:11AM
    • Re:just for journal owners by aevan (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:12AM
    • alienation by SuperBanana (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @02:03AM
  • more info from the TOS by Dance_Dance_Karnov (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:09AM
  • Bandwidth is Not Free! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shyampandit (842649) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:09AM (#15162920)
    (http://www.funonthenet.in/)
    Well livejournal does need to pay for their bandwidth and running costs right?

    With ad blockers getting more and more prevalent and sometimes getting installed by default with some firewall software, it might get problematic for websites depending on ad revenue.

    Although I guess peopl installing ad blockers on their own, probably would just ignore the ads anyway.
  • Well, when you think about it... by Lord Aurora (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:11AM
  • How? by TheCarlMau (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:14AM
    • Re:How? by Gnagus (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @07:28AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • So here is the text of the rule:


    Employ tactics and/or technologies to prevent the full and complete delivery or display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

          1. Making journal style changes, customizations, or overrides that effectively block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on a Sponsored+ account's Content or other pages within the Service.
          2. Employing and/or providing software programs, browser scripts, or other technologies that serve to block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages.


    It is clear one thing this rule is aimed at is people changing their journal to block the ads on livejournal. This is perfectly reasonable and even slashdot doesn't let you foil their ads by posting cleverly formated comments on a story (not technically possible here I presume).

    What is less clear is if this is intended to apply to people VIEWING livejournal content. After all you aren't even really acting as a livejournal user when you do this you are just reading someone's blog.

    I think we just need to wait and see if this actually amounts to any changes or is just overbroad legal wording to cover their ass in unforseen circumstances. Remember there are all sorts of crazy conditions in some EULAs/TOS that don't necessarily amount to anything.
  • Someone has to pay somewhere... by MOtisBeard (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:18AM
  • Good FUDding, Slashdot. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BinaryOpty (736955) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:19AM (#15162972)
    Good job, Slashdot, with your bullshit disinformative article blurb. Let's go over this like intelligent human beings and show why it's a non-issue:

    Livejournal just recently added opt-in ads for users that would let them have pretty much all of the benefits of a paid user for the cost of having ads on their journals. After you opt-in to ads you can opt-out at any time and return to your ad-free cost-free journal. Free users viewing another free user's page, their own friends page, or a paid user's page will see no ads but they will see ads when viewing the journal page of someone who's opted for ads. Paid users will see no ads at all. Even so, all I've seen of these ads so far are Google ads. This is article is total FUD and should be tagged as such.
  • Somebody needs to learn how to read (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gorshkov (932507) <<gorshkov> <at> <oghma.on.ca>> on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:20AM (#15162977)
    No, the TOS does *not* say that you can't use "ad blocking software". It says that if you have ads on your live journal page, you're not allowed to mess with the layout so that the ads can't be seen by people LOOKING at your page. Not quite the same thing.

    Geeze ........ this is a story?
    • No, the TOS does *not* say that you can't use "ad blocking software".

      Not sure...

      You agree to NOT use the Service to:
      ...
      17. Employ tactics and/or technologies to prevent the full and complete delivery or display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages. These include, but are not limited to, the following:
      a. Making journal style changes, customizations, or overrides that effectively block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on a Sponsored+ account's Content or other pages within the Service.
      b. Employing and/or providing software programs, browser scripts, or other technologies that serve to block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages.

      What about b? By the letter, it seems to deny at least some people the use of ad-blocking software. Or maybe it just says that users can't "use the service to employ" ad-blocking. What's that mean? You can't link to it? Talk about it?

      The first one (a) seems reasonable to me. B should at least be made more clear.

      [ Parent ]
  • Nothing new (Score:4, Informative)

    by The Hobo (783784) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:23AM (#15162989)
    Geocities has had this as far back as I can remember, this rule just means journal writers can't try and circumvent the displaying of ads on their journal, whether readers block them via say, Adblock Plus and the Filterset.G updater [extensionsmirror.nl] (look for the "Plus", not the original, and filterset is just below it, it is a set of filters maintained by people for Adblock) is another story
    • Re:Nothing new by TubeSteak (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @02:00AM
      • Re:Nothing new by ET_Fleshy (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @04:05AM
  • An important point (Score:4, Informative)

    by Scooby Snacks (516469) on Thursday April 20 2006, @01:24AM (#15162998)
    Keep in mind that you'll see the ads only if you don't have an account, or if you agree to see ads to get more features on your account. If you don't want to see the ads, you can simply change your account from the new Sponsored+ level back to the standard Free level.

    No one's forcing you to view the ads. You're agreeing to see them to get more features on your (free!) account. You can also pay $20 for an entire year and get even more features and no ads.

  • Broadcast flag, HERE WE GO by Spy der Mann (Score:1) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:27AM
  • Only a matter of time... by dteichman2 (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:27AM
  • lynx (Score:5, Interesting)

    hmm, does lynx count as an ad blocker?
    • Re:lynx by HaydnH (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @07:00AM
    • Re:lynx by Jamesday (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @08:53PM
  • Tools->Adblock->Adblock prefcerences and select hide ads at the bottom. Ads will be downloaded, but you won't see them. Presto!
  • One-sided contracts are against contract law. by Futurepower(R) (Score:2) Thursday April 20 2006, @01:35AM