Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

D-Link Firmware Abuses Open NTP Servers

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Fri Apr 07, 2006 09:36 AM
from the frustration-in-a-box dept.
DES writes "FreeBSD developer and NTP buff Poul-Henning Kamp runs a stratum-1 NTP server specifically for the benefit of networks directly connected to the Danish Internet Exchange (DIX). Some time last fall, however, D-Link started including his server in a hardcoded list in their router firmware. Poul-Henning now estimates that between 75% and 90% of NTP traffic at his server originates from D-Link gear. After five months of fruitless negotiation with a D-Link lawyer (who alternately tried to threaten and bribe him), he has written an open letter to D-Link, hoping the resulting publicity will force D-Link to acknowledge the issue. There are obvious parallels to a previous story, though Netgear behaved far more responsibly at the time than D-Link seem to be."

Related Stories

[+] Developers: Netgear Routers DoS UWisc Time Server 447 comments
numatrix writes "For the last few months, hundreds of thousands of netgear routers being sold had hardcoded values in their firmware for ntp synchronization, causing a major denial of service to the University of Wisconsin's network before it was filtered and eventually tracked down. Highlights how not to code embedded devices." A really excellent write-up of the incident.
[+] D-Link Settles Danish Time Dispute 192 comments
igb writes "The Register reports that DLink has settled the time server dispute described a little over a month ago here on Slashdot. They're going to stop using an NTP server they're not really authorized to chime with, and they've reached an amicable settlement over the use by existing products. The details of the settlement are, not unsurprisingly, somewhat vague, but let's hope that the good guys aren't out of pocket any more."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2
  • List of Affected Products: (Score:5, Informative)

    by SuperficialRhyme (731757) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:39AM (#15084051)
    (http://www.caseyandanna.com/)
    From TFA: "A number of D-Link products, so far I have at least identified DI-604, DI-614+, DI-624, DI-754, DI-764, DI-774, DI-784, VDI604 and VDI624, contain a list of NTP servers in their firmware and using some sort of algorithm, they pick one and send packets to it."
    • Write DLink and let them know what you think! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:27AM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by Anil Purandare (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:55AM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:22PM
      • Re:List of Affected Products: by afidel (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @02:05PM
        • Re:List of Affected Products: (Score:4, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 07 2006, @03:53PM (#15087736)
          From the RFC website: http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=4330 [rfc-archive.org]

          10. Best Practices

                NTP and SNTP clients can consume considerable network and server
                resources if they are not good network citizens. There are now
                consumer Internet commodity devices numbering in the millions that
                are potential customers of public and private NTP and SNTP servers.
                Recent experience strongly suggests that device designers pay
                particular attention to minimizing resource impacts, especially if
                large numbers of these devices are deployed. The most important
                design consideration is the interval between client requests, called
                the poll interval. It is extremely important that the design use the
                maximum poll interval consistent with acceptable accuracy.

                1. A client MUST NOT under any conditions use a poll interval less
                        than 15 seconds.

                2. A client SHOULD increase the poll interval using exponential
                        backoff as performance permits and especially if the server does
                        not respond within a reasonable time.

                3. A client SHOULD use local servers whenever available to avoid
                        unnecessary traffic on backbone networks.

                4. A client MUST allow the operator to configure the primary and/or
                        alternate server names or addresses in addition to or in place of
                        a firmware default IP address.

                5. If a firmware default server IP address is provided, it MUST be a
                        server operated by the manufacturer or seller of the device or
                        another server, but only with the operator's permission.

                6. A client SHOULD use the Domain Name System (DNS) to resolve the
                        server IP addresses, so the operator can do effective load
                        balancing among a server clique and change IP address binding to
                        canonical names.

                7. A client SHOULD re-resolve the server IP address at periodic
                        intervals, but not at intervals less than the time-to-live field
                        in the DNS response.

                8. A client SHOULD support the NTP access-refusal mechanism so that
                        a server kiss-o'-death reply in response to a client request
                        causes the client to cease sending requests to that server and to
                        switch to an alternate, if available.

          -daedone
          [ Parent ]
      • Re:List of Affected Products: by brunson (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @04:24PM
      • Re:List of Affected Products: by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @06:50PM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ajs (35943) <ajs@aj s . com> on Friday April 07 2006, @12:47PM (#15086066)
      (http://www.ajs.com/~ajs/)
      I don't get why D-Link doesn't just solve the problem. All they need to do is put up an ntp.dlink.com with a simple mock DNS server that checks the requesting IP, and returns the closest known, public (or authorized for that network) NTP server as a CNAME. In most of the cases, that's going to be the IP's ISP-provided NTP server, which D-Link could easily compile a list of from ISP Web-sites. It's like 2 weeks of one person's work to write the server, gather data, and solve 80% of the problem (and avoid doing this to companies that CAN afford to sue in the future). This would also allow organizations to request special listings in D-Link's table.

      Even in the case where the request comes from a recursive lookup, it should (in almost all cases) come from a DNS server which indicates the rough location (in terms of Internet topography) of the client.

      Of course, they could also obey DHCP responses (either to the device or to a directly connected IP) as a fallback, solving even more of the problem.
      [ Parent ]
    • Easy answer, boycott D-Link by wwphx (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:59PM
    • post details to amazon.com reviews by doublem (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @05:16PM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: (Score:5, Informative)

      by SuperficialRhyme (731757) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:57AM (#15084789)
      (http://www.caseyandanna.com/)
      I asked for details and this is what he provided to me. I haven't gotten to do this yet:

      "If you download the firmware from DLink and run unarj on it
      you get a file called something like nml.mem.

      Run strings on that and grep for GPS.dix.dk to make sure it is not
      listed in there."
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by codegen (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @11:10AM
    • by MerlynEmrys67 (583469) on Friday April 07 2006, @11:12AM (#15084944)
      Can you please show me where the Source MAC address exists in an IP packet that has been forwarded over the internet from (for example) the United States - to a server in Denmark?

      Now that you look at your ethernet sniffs (I assume you just went running off and ran ethereal) look at the source ethernet address... Hmmmmm - doesn't that look familiar, like maybe it looks kinda like your first hop routers MAC address.

      Nice try -

      Thank you, Come Again

      And please read either Stevens or Comer before posting on networking topics again

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by imp (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @12:14PM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by ncc74656 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:36PM
    • Re:List of Affected Products: by toadlife (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @04:29PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Moochers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by suso (153703) * on Friday April 07 2006, @09:39AM (#15084052)
    (http://suso.suso.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 09 2004, @12:03AM)
    Give people an inch and they take a mile. I don't see why D-Link and Netgear couldn't just make their own stratum-1 NTP servers. I mean, if you trust the brandname enough for your routing, don't you trust them enough for your time as well?
    • Re:Moochers by cdrudge (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:57AM
      • Re:Moochers (Score:4, Insightful)

        by suso (153703) * on Friday April 07 2006, @10:06AM (#15084284)
        (http://suso.suso.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 09 2004, @12:03AM)
        I'm not considering good will, appreciation, or the right thing to do. None of these things apply to a business unfortunately.

        Eh hem, at the risk of sounding like a troll, they apply to my business damnit and don't you forget that.

        The problem is, when you do the right thing, like enforcing security over convience, customers don't always appretiate it.
        [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Moochers by lynx_user_abroad (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:10AM
        • Re:Moochers by PygmySurfer (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:11PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Moochers (Score:4, Insightful)

      by archen (447353) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:05AM (#15084265)
      I mean why in the hell does cheap dlink crap need to connect to stratum-1 servers? Seriously these things should be running on stratum-3 or lower. I doubt the FBI will come into your home with national security at stake and the whole world ENDS because your $40 dlink router is off by half a second. Why doesn't dlink run their own damn ntp server off of the stratum-1 (making them stratum 2 - stratum 1 is sortof expensive). There is no need for these things to have this level of time precision - they just need ballpark correct time.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Moochers by archen (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:11AM
      • Re:Moochers by Moonwick (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:52AM
        • Re:Moochers by mpe (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @01:27PM
    • Re:Moochers (Score:5, Interesting)

      by typical (886006) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:07AM (#15084290)
      (Last Journal: Thursday February 23 2006, @02:47AM)
      It's cheaper for D-Link to freeload off other people.

      That being said, D-Link has acquired quite a bad reputation in my book. The last time they were prominently mentioned on Slashdot was when their routers were randomly silently redirecting a small chunk of HTTP traffic to D-Link advertisements, and causing the obvious mayhem in non-human-readable HTTP traffic.

      I'm also wondering just how much mayhem this guy could cause on various networks by playing with the time he returns. I'm not advocating that...I'm just pointing out that D-Link is rather leaving the owners of their routers open to whatever he chooses to do to them. Adding NTP support to a product is one thing -- hardcoding it to reference an NTP server that you can't guarantee is trustworthy is another thing. Suppose, for instance, this guy drops the name due to the expenses and someone else picks it up...

      To be blunt, buying D-Link hardware at this point means that you're kind of, well, asking for whatever the hardware does to you.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Moochers (Score:5, Informative)

        That was Belkin [theregister.co.uk].
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Moochers by typical (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:02AM
          • Re:Moochers by Jesus_666 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @02:05PM
            • Re:Moochers by BigCheese (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @02:43PM
            • Re:Moochers by nolife (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @03:15PM
            • Re:Moochers by bovinewasteproduct (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @07:34PM
              • Re:Moochers by Jesus_666 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @08:14PM
              • Re:Moochers by gmack (Score:2) Saturday April 08 2006, @05:12PM
        • Re:Moochers by jridley (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:28PM
          • Re:Moochers by HiThere (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @04:47PM
            • Re:Moochers by jridley (Score:2) Tuesday April 11 2006, @06:42AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Moochers by Just Some Guy (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @11:02AM
      • Belkin was Spam Routing, not DLink. by _KiTA_ (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:04AM
      • Path to Justice (Score:5, Interesting)

        1. Buy the domain name off this poor guy / arrange for alternate hosting if it can't be sold.

        2. Take a collection from the /. community to set up an alternate server.

        3. Wait a month for all the legitimate users to switch to a new URL.

        4. Fire up a server at the old URL reporting Midnight, Jan 1, 1900

        5. Let D-Link deal with users accusing D-Link of failing to sell a Y2K compliant product in 2006.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Moochers by Znork (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:07PM
      • Re:Moochers by gravyface (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:35PM
      • Re:Moochers by mpe (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @01:19PM
      • Re:Moochers by Stephen Samuel (Score:2) Saturday April 08 2006, @09:36AM
      • Re:WTF??? by LurkerXXX (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @12:18PM
        • Re:WTF??? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by LurkerXXX (667952) on Friday April 07 2006, @12:57PM (#15086161)
          It doesn't seem like a moral crusade to me.

          He discovered a problem.
          He contacted the company causing the problem.
          He explained the problem, and simply asked them to fix it.
          They didn't.
          They put him off.
          They threw a lawyer at him to threaten him.
          They offered 'compensation' that didn't come close to covering his costs.

          He was trying to do it all quietly and nicely, not crusading, and they wouldn't have it.

          So instead of going through the often extremely troublesome and lengthy legal procedings (which are even worse than normal since this is an international case), he was hoping to publically embarrass the company into fixing the problem they caused. Seems like a reasonable attempt at a speedy solution, not a crusade.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:WTF??? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @02:35PM
          • Re:WTF??? (Score:5, Informative)

            by LurkerXXX (667952) on Friday April 07 2006, @02:36PM (#15087055)
            I would have contacted a lawyer right after step four

            Right, because lawyers are cheap... right.

            I like how he doesn't mention any numbers.
            He already has dedicated hosting, do they charge him $1 per megabyte or something?

            If you'd bother to RTFA, once again, he answers how much the hosting is costing him. He talks about numbers all over the place.

            " because I offer this service free of charge and NTP is a low bandwidth protocol, the organization behind the DIX has graciously waived the normal DKR 27.000,00 (approx USD 4,400) connection fee."

            " the current theory is that I will have to close the GPS.DIX.dk server or pay a connection-fee of DKR 54.000,00 (approx USD 8,800) a year as long as the traffic is a significant fraction of total traffic to the server."

            " I owe $5000 to an external consultant who helped me track down where these packets came from."

            " I have already spent close to 120 non-billable hours (I'm an independent contractor) negotiating with D-Link's laywers and mitigating the effect of the packets on the services provided to the legitimate users of GPS.dix.dk."

            " Finally I have spent approx DKR 15.000,00 (USD 2,500) on lawyers fees trying to get D-Link to negotiate in good faith."

            " If I closed the GPS.dix.dk server right now, wrote off all the time I have spent myself, then my expenses would amount to between DKR 45.000,00 and DKR 99.000,00 (USD 7,300 to 16,000) and several hundered administrators throughout Denmark would have to spend time reconfiguring their servers.

            If on the other hand we assume I leave the service running and that the unauthorized packets from D-Link products continue for the next five years, the total cost for me will be around DKR 115.000,00 + 54.000,00 per year (approx USD 18,500 + USD 8,800 per year) or DKR 385.000,00 over the next five years (USD 62,000). " block the NTP traffic from anything outside his network if it is sooooo expensive for him. You can do that at the ISP level in most cases.

            He also mentions how blocking traffic is not feasible, and why, IF YOU'D BOTHER TO READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE. Learn how to read or STFU about him being an asshole.

            [ Parent ]
            • Re:WTF??? by berny@work (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @03:02PM
              • Re:WTF??? by LurkerXXX (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @03:23PM
            • Re:WTF??? by Snaller (Score:1) Saturday April 08 2006, @04:02AM
            • Other ways to filter traffic by bill_mcgonigle (Score:2) Monday April 10 2006, @05:52PM
            • Re:WTF??? by berny@work (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @03:06PM
              • Re:WTF??? by Marlow the Irelander (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @03:56PM
                • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
              • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:WTF??? by LurkerXXX (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @04:13PM
              • Re:WTF??? by phkamp (Score:3) Friday April 07 2006, @04:31PM
                • Re:WTF??? by berny@work (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @06:54PM
                  • Re:WTF??? by berny@work (Score:2) Monday April 10 2006, @01:22AM
              • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:WTF??? by lendude (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:20PM
            • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:WTF??? by TheSpoom (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:30PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Moochers by billcopc (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @01:10PM
  • Couldn't they filter by MECC (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:40AM
  • Easy fix (Score:4, Funny)

    by mcgroarty (633843) <brian@b r i a n m .org> on Friday April 07 2006, @09:41AM (#15084067)
    (http://brianm.org/)
    If he can detect that the majority of connections are from D-Link products, then he can detect which connections are from D-Link products. The easy solution? Whenever a D-Link product connects, report a very very wrong time. :)
  • NTP Server EULAs? by samj (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:41AM
  • Hasn't anybody at D-Link heard of (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bersl2 (689221) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:42AM (#15084074)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday September 25, @04:26AM)
    pool.ntp.org?
  • Repost of Digg comment (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bogtha (906264) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:43AM (#15084088)

    If there's one thing I hate more than incompetence, it's people who don't care that they are incompetent and carry on churning out crap regardless of the problems it causes others.

    According to this page [dlink.com], D-Link have an office operating in Denmark. This makes them subject to Danish law whether they like it or not. I don't know whether Denmark's computer crime laws cover this, but it wouldn't surprise me.

  • pool.ntp.org (Score:3, Insightful)

    by martin (1336) <maxsec&dsl,pipex,com> on Friday April 07 2006, @09:44AM (#15084093)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday August 08, @03:46AM)
    Should be using pool.ntp.org surely........

    or am I being daft again..

  • Blacklist time (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phil reed (626) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:45AM (#15084101)
    (http://www.spamgourmet.com/)
    Time to add D-Link to the hardware vendor blacklist. Whenever you're asked by your non-tech friends what hardware they should buy, recommend anything BUT D-Link, and tell them to actively AVOID D-Link.
  • I just bought a DI-624+ (Score:4, Informative)

    by Aggrajag (716041) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:48AM (#15084127)
    The DI-624+ is not on the list and it is possible to manually change the NTP server which the router uses.
  • Never buying D-Link again! by niskel (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:48AM
  • What's the issue? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:49AM
  • Open servers a problem with certain users? by digitaldc (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:52AM
  • Time to link by missing_myself (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:53AM
  • D-Link ha! by SpaghettiPattern (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:55AM
    • Re:D-Link ha! by demiurgie (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:14PM
      • Re:D-Link ha! by SpaghettiPattern (Score:1) Saturday April 08 2006, @02:34PM
  • Fairly simple fix by fataugie (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:55AM
  • They're clearly wrong here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MikeRT (947531) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:02AM (#15084243)
    (http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com/)
    So why didn't they just own up to the mistake, update the firmware and cut him a check for his expenses plus a 5% or so to apologize for the inconvenience? Bureaucrats and lawyers who cannot admit that they are wrong only end up creating more public disgust with their behavior. When you find yourself digging a hole, stop digging!
  • D-Link is just a bad net citizen (Score:5, Interesting)

    It's not the first time that D-Link's crappy programming has affected a service. DynDNS.com [dyndns.com] last year started blocking all update requests [dyndns.com] that match a user-agent of client/1.0, beleived primarily to be several D-Link routers. D-Link has been mum on a response last I heard.
  • Interesting, but by punkr0x (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @10:10AM
  • Wasn't this already patched? by kryptobiotic (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:15AM
  • Why not rename the server (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 91degrees (207121) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:17AM (#15084404)
    (Last Journal: Friday June 11 2004, @11:15AM)
    Change the DNS name. Granted, he gives reasons for not wanting to do this, but the only practical alternative is to shut down the server entirely. This will still require 2000 or so system administrators to reconfigure their servers, so he might as well provide a logical alternative.
  • OS fingerprint filtering with pf by DeBeuk (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:20AM
  • Stupid idea.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JaJ_D (652372) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:20AM (#15084434)
    ...why don't you change the one they (D-Link) use to (basically) lie about the time! Deliberatly send out the wrong information. Altered the config for the customers of dix and let the D-Link customers go mad at D-Link

    Brutal but (in theory) affective....

    Jaj
  • DI-624: how to disable? by Jay Maynard (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:23AM
  • This is not good for NTP by ScottLindner (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @10:26AM
  • cname to the rescue (Score:4, Insightful)

    by spatenbrau (926486) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:30AM (#15084528)
    I'm surprised phk is screwing around writing long-winded letters. Much faster would have been to just add a dns A-record entry by the name of private-ntp.dix.dk for the legit users and have them use that server. The old gps.dix.dk entry should be made into a CNAME for www.dlink.com. That would put the crushing levels of ntp traffic back where it belonged -- right on Dlink's doorstep.
  • Block it and watch by mOOzilla (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:31AM
  • send NTP replies with very low IP TTL by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @10:36AM
  • Breaking the law by wowbagger (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:37AM
  • someone proof read my letter plz (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tehwebguy (860335) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:38AM (#15084584)
    (http://www.theworldwidewebguy.com/)
    ATTN: President & CEO
    17595 Mt. Herrmann St
    Fountain Valley, CA 92708

    I have recently read an open letter to D-Link available at the following URL:
    http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/dlink/ [freebsd.org]

    I must say that I am disgusted with D-Link's poor choice of action. D-Link may
    think that abuse such as this will go un-noticed, but that is not the case.

    While I don't expect my actions to bring your corporation to its knees, I am the
    "geek" of my family, and I have taken a personal stand by ordering Linksys
    products to replace any and all of the D-Link networking gear that my parents,
    siblings, cousins, and roomates are using. I hope that my sacrifice puts a dent
    in the damage your corporate negligence has caused Mr. Kamp.
  • Poul-Henning clarifies (Score:5, Informative)

    by phkamp (524380) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:48AM (#15084704)
    (http://people.freebsd.org/~phk)
    Let me clarify a number of details here.

    1. My server has not replied to the packets sinde the CodeRed virus/worm abused NTP servers to coordinate attacks. That was a couple of years ago. I doubt D-Link ever even tried to test this.

    2. NTP is a timing protocol. You do not want to do expensive and timeconsuming filtering on the packets because that disturbs your timing performance.

    3. If I have to sue D-Link, it will be either in USA or Taiwan. Both their Danish marketing office and the UK european office will be able to deflect a lawsuit to their mothership.

    4. If you download a firmware file from D-Link, it is often a ARJ archive. unpack that and run strings. If you see GPS.dix.dk in there, please use another version. If the firmware you run is older than about a month, please update it.

    5. The list of products in my open letter is unlikely to be complete, those are the only ones I have been able to positively identify (using the method above). If you find out other products are affected, please email me.

    6. We do have a number of very interesting sections of our penal code here in Denmark that are very likely to apply. Only problem is, they havn't been tried in a court yet. So I have to persuade an overworked criminal inspector to raise a criminal case against a foreigner over a, lets face it, quite small monetary amount. Then I have to spend a lot of time making sure that we convince a judge who have never heard of NTP that they are guilty and then if I win, I can see some D-link manager make a checkmark in their pocket book: "Remember to not visit Denmark under true name". I have better things to use my life for.

    I can see a couple of hits from a C-class belonging to "D-Link Irwine": please escalate this guys, your bosses don't read slashdot.

    Thanks for all the supportive email.

    Poul-Henning

  • Osama Bin Laden (Score:3, Funny)

    by Skapare (16644) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:51AM (#15084728)
    (http://linuxhomepage.com/)

    D-Link must be run by Osama Bin Laden. That's why no one can be reached (hiding in the mountains of the Afghanistan and Pakistan border). Obviously, this attack has something to do with that cartoon thing.

  • D-Link Business Development (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Qbertino (265505) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:51AM (#15084734)

    Ok, let's do some good. Are we slashdot, or what?

    D-Link Business Development and Strategic Partnerships, E-mail: bdm@dlink.com

    >>>
    To whom ever it may concern:

    Hello.
    I just learned of you companies notably persistent inability and unwillingness to deal with a serious design flaw in a growing range of your products. This flaw is severly disrupting internet services for a large amount of internet participants and even though you have been informed in detail of these effects your products are having, you have done nothing of substance to resolve the issue and compensate for the damage done.

    Until I learn that the issue described in the open letter do D-Link, available under http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/dlink/ [freebsd.org], was resolved in a professional and mutualy satisfying manner I will not purchase any D-Link products and will strongly discourage anybody asking for my expertise as a professional in the IT field from buying D-Link products or from engageing in any sort of business relationship with D-Link.

    Sincerely
    An Internet User

    Mistakes in this one? Please post corrected version below and then add a 'mailto' link to the address.
    Grammar Nazis, it's your turn!


  • If the BOFH ruled the world by foQ (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:01AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • If It Happened To Me... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:04AM
  • one solution by ajs318 (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:10AM
  • Vonage ATAs do something similar by renehollan (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:16AM
  • Solution by IGnatius T Foobar (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:20AM
  • Send random times back by GekkePrutser (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @11:29AM
  • Let's boycott D-Link by Crystalus (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:41AM
  • Open hacking season in Denmark. by rsperry79 (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:41AM
  • anyone who can by slo_learner (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:46AM
  • wrong approach by penguin-collective (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:00PM
  • time for change. by Bubba-T (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:03PM
  • This is the problem... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:03PM
  • How about the EFF sue DLink ? by gwait (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:09PM
  • This is why we have Firewalls and Intranets by SleezyG (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:18PM
  • This is not the first time by Sven Tuerpe (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:26PM
  • customers can vote 'no' to d-link by sed@netcom.com (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:26PM
  • Unfortunate situation... by d_jedi (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:38PM
  • In support of D-Link by WolfStar76 (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:45PM
  • D-Link 604 can choose NTP server default. by sehlat (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:45PM
  • Split DNS by SigILL (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:47PM
  • ntp1.dlink.com by alanw (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @12:53PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • D-Link products longtime blacklisted by Acting Ordinant (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @01:13PM
  • Use a firewall by Bartmoss (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @01:29PM
  • Call Customer Support by afm47 (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @01:46PM
  • DynDNS and NTP aren't the only things... by paleck (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @02:16PM
  • A little help here...please? by iminplaya (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @02:18PM
  • Eye for an eye by Baloo Ursidae (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @02:49PM
  • To protect my employer... by lightspawn (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @03:01PM
  • Pretty simple at this point by tuxlove (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @03:12PM
  • Poul-Henning clarifies more (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phkamp (524380) on Friday April 07 2006, @04:08PM (#15087852)
    (http://people.freebsd.org/~phk)
    We are not talking HTTP here. Robots.txt does not apply.

    The place where the service restriction is clearly written out, the "stratum 1 list" is the only place where DLink can have found the name of the NTP server in the first place.

    As several posters have pointed out: consumer devices like these have no need to query stratum 1 servers.

    As I said clearly in my letter: filtering will not prevent me from getting hit with bandwidth charges of $8800/year.

    I have not tried sending any bogus return packets because that would hit innocent consumers who bought D-Links defficient products.

    And for the people who could have identified the source of these packets so much faster and easier: Drop me an email, I'll be sure to ask for your help next time.

    Finally, I can see that more than 40 people at D-Link Irwine (192.152.81.0/24) have read the open letter now, please guys: get somebody to call me or email me so we can get this matter settled. (both email and phone# is in the open letter)

    Poul-Henning
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Poison the well by The Ogre (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @04:11PM
  • No Surprise by beeblebrox (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @04:20PM
  • USR by Arandir (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @04:23PM
  • How the problem was tracked down by sjmurdoch (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @04:29PM
  • Here's what I'd do (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Introspective (71476) on Friday April 07 2006, @04:49PM (#15088125)
    (http://www.crypt.gen.nz/)
    The problem is really one of economics more than anything else, so the solution has to be cheap.

    He's correct that performing complex packet matching on a Cisco router would load it too much - they just don't have the CPU to do that function for any significant traffic load.

    I would configure the switch that the NTP server is on to have a SPAN port - a port to which all traffic is copied. Most Cisco switches will do this without any problem. On that SPAN port, connect a Linux box with a bit of CPU power - 2GHz would be tons. On the Linux box, setup tcpdump to match the packet patterns that D-Link routers are sending ( from TFA he has this as detected by a network consultant ).

    From the output of tcpdump, extract the source IP addresses. A fairly small perl script would probably do it. Take these IP addresses and massage them into access-lists for the upstream router to block, again perl or TCL/Expect would be reasonable tools. Routers are good at blocking large lists of IP addresses - its not such a load for them as the list gets compiled and pushed onto the hardware. Depending on his router model a few thousand ACL lines would be fine.

    Alternatively, he could use the same approach to detect the non-D-Link source IPs - permit these and block anything else. From his stats of legit -vs- D-Link sources this would result in a shorter access list.

    The only issue here is that a D-Link behind a shared-NAT'd IP address would result in that address being blocked, but there shouldn't be too many of these. And legally he can block anything he wants - his service has no written guarantee to he should be legally safe (yeah, IANAL).

    To keep costs and time down, he can probably get help from the local University ( a cool project for any CompSci students ) to do the code and Linux setup, or help from the local LUG - I'd bet there would be plenty of volunteers to set it up, and I could imagine it being done within a couple of days.

    Kerry

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Geographic DNS by mihugo (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @05:56PM
  • Bottom-tier hardware by petrus4 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @06:39PM
  • Give a programmer a break! by myopiate (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @07:09PM
  • Far be it for me to give PHK advice... by tlambert (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:15PM
  • This is how bad it was (Score:3, Informative)

    by Snaller (147050) on Saturday April 08 2006, @03:55AM (#15090063)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday June 26, @08:41AM)
    The guy had help in finding out who it was who abused his service, by Richard Clayton, he writes in his blog about this: "on a typical day he'd receive 3.2 million bad packets (that's 37 a second!). "

    Here he explains how he traced down who was behind, what he calls a DDoS attack: His blog [lightbluetouchpaper.org]
  • D-Link abuses almost *all* stratum 1 servers by phkamp (Score:2) Saturday April 08 2006, @12:39PM
  • DNS solution? by hicksw (Score:1) Sunday April 09 2006, @08:15AM
  • Re:Im confused by DES (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:41AM
  • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nohea (142708) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:42AM (#15084078)
    NTP server use is tiered. So client PCs are not supposed to hit the tier 1s, they should hit 2nd tier or a local ntp server.

    You don't use the root DNS servers for all your DNS requests, right?
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Informative)

    by phil reed (626) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:42AM (#15084080)
    (http://www.spamgourmet.com/)
    Yes, you're confused. And, you didn't read the article. The author is pissed because he's running an NTP server intended to be accessed only by Danish networks, and for use by servers, not clients. D-Link products are only marketed to clients, and not just Danish clients.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Insightful)

      by honkycat (249849) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:57AM (#15084203)
      (http://www.borkbork.org/~bigjoe | Last Journal: Tuesday December 30 2003, @03:11PM)
      He followed standard protocol for NTP servers, which is to list the restrictions on the use of your server with its entry on the NTP server list. System administrators are supposed to check this to make sure they're not making an unauthorized connection. They're also supposed to contact the NTP server administrator to let him know they're using the server, unless the server admin states otherwise.

      You can learn all this and check the list to be sure you comply within 10 minutes thanks to the power of Google. Any responsible company would know this and do so. D-Link made a big mistake (not in terms of the impact on them, sadly) and is evidently refusing to own up.

      As others have pointed out, it's not easy to implement the restrictions that would enforce the access policy. It's also sad, though not surprising, that one would have to. It'd be one thing if the server was the target of script kiddie DOS attacks, but a legitimate company selling network products really ought to know better (and care).
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Im confused by svindler (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:43AM
  • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chyeld (713439) <{chyeld} {at} {newsguy.com}> on Friday April 07 2006, @09:48AM (#15084122)
    He hosts a NTP server with the intention of it being used by a certain audience. He's not pissed people outside of that audience are using the server, he's pissed that D-Link decided to abuse the service he's providing and now the overwhelming majority of the people using his service are outside the intended audience.

    Sorta like how server admins get pissed when an article posted on their site causes them to be Slashdotted.

    And honestly, the fact that D-Link is acting in the way it is while he trys to get them to resolve the issue probably isn't helping matters.

    Then again, as a former owner of a D-Link product which rebooted itself anytime I went over 50 simultaneous connections (think P2P), I don't doubt they'd be too cheap to actually just run their own.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Im confused by jbolden (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:48AM
  • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:49AM (#15084137)

    So let me get this straight... this guy hosts an NTP server and is pissed because... its being used as an NTP server?

    If I set up an NTP server, say for my university, and left it open for others, I also might think it a bit unorthodox if a multinational corporation hardcoded all there gear (which was deployed internationally) to query it. This is for several reasons. First, it generates unneeded bandwidth and violates convention by not using a local NTP server. Second, it means thousands of people are relying on one person for their gear to work properly, a person the company did not even bother to consult. What if he decides to change the time by five hours, just for fun? It is bloody irresponsible of the manufacturer to give him that option. And what happens if the server is deprecated or the hostname and IP changed in a reworking of the network? Tons of wasted traffic as they ping his IP space.

    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Im confused by Captain Hook (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @11:36AM
  • Re:Fishy by KarmaMB84 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:53AM
  • He's not just any guy. by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @09:54AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Fishy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rycamor (194164) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:54AM (#15084183)
    And it never occured to him to systematically unplug each device to see if it was the one causing the problem and then spend $99 on a new router? Something seems mighty fishy to me.

    Either this is a very weak attempt at a troll, or an incredible demonstration of ignorance.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Fishy by antibryce (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:08AM
    • Re:Fishy by phoenix.bam! (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:28AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Fishy by whizzard (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @12:27PM
  • Re:just change the DNS (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thinkliberty (593776) on Friday April 07 2006, @09:56AM (#15084198)
    if you dont want people to use your NTP server then logic would dictate dont set one up in the first place

    That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

    Using your twisted logic there is nothing wrong with spammers sending people hundreds of thousands of unsolicited commercial email a day. If people don't want spam then they should not have set up an email address right?
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Fishy by Slashcrap (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:56AM
  • Re:Fishy by richy freeway (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @09:58AM
  • Re:Why didn't he take the "bribe"? (Score:5, Informative)

    by bloodredsun (826017) <{martin} {at} {bloodredsun.com}> on Friday April 07 2006, @10:00AM (#15084229)
    (Last Journal: Thursday April 06 2006, @10:50AM)

    Sorry to correct your rant, but he does say in TFA that the offer was so low that it didn't even cover his costs. That would be a good enough reason to say no wouldn't it?

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Why didn't he take the "bribe"? by DES (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:02AM
  • Why didn't you read the whole article? by wjcofkc (Score:1) Friday April 07 2006, @10:02AM
  • Re:Fishy by compass46 (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:04AM
  • Re:Why didn't he take the "bribe"? by fader (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:05AM
  • Re:Why didn't he take the "bribe"? by sheehaje (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @10:08AM
  • Re:Fishy (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mr. Vandemar (797798) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:08AM (#15084320)
    (http://www.vandemar.org/)
    And just when I thought reading comprehension on Slashdot couldn't get any worse...
    [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Im confused (Score:5, Interesting)

    by typical (886006) on Friday April 07 2006, @10:16AM (#15084387)
    (Last Journal: Thursday February 23 2006, @02:47AM)
    There are three conventions being violated:

    * To keep the network working, the NTP system is tiered. Anything other than a time server used to redistribute time to other machines should probably access a Tier 3 system, or a Tier 2 if that is not possible. It should never hammer a Tier 1 -- this can screw up the rest of the NTP network.

    * There are large lists of NTP servers, and they list access restrictions. As pointed out in the letter, this guy explicitly stated in his access rules that this server was not for client use.

    * As pointed out in the letter, this guy explicitly stated in his access rules that this server was not for use outside of Denmark.

    You may not be used to this sort of thing, because no such set of agreements exists for, say, webservers. However, in the NTP world, network administrators respect these, and it is why the time system continues to work.

    What D-Link is doing hurts all Danish NTP users, and freeloads off a volunteer (D-Link is selling the product and profiting from it -- let *them* handle the traffic and factor any bandwidth costs into their product cost). It opens their product to potential abuse if the server becomes malicious (a properly-designed router would allow the user to specify an NTP server, or if the user is unable to configure a router, to do what the letter suggested and use a D-Link-controlled name.). It violates agreements that have been generally respected by the NTP-using administrator community for many years.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Im confused by jonadab (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @01:29PM
  • Re:Fishy by neoshroom (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @02:22PM
  • Re:Sigh by kylegordon (Score:2) Friday April 07 2006, @05:22PM
  • Re:Im confused by Snaller (Score:2) Saturday April 08 2006, @04:20AM
  • 21 replies beneath your current threshold.
(1) | 2