RIAA Recommends Students Drop out of College
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:21 AM
from the always-has-your-best-interests-at-heart dept.
from the always-has-your-best-interests-at-heart dept.
boarder8925 writes "An MIT student accused of copyright infringement has been documenting her struggles with the RIAA. Upon trying to negotiate her settlement, a representative told her that "the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements.""
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EFF Calls RIAA Tactics 'Reign of Terror' 215 comments
nanday writes "What happens when the RIAA prosecutes people for alleged illegal music downloads? In an article on Newsforge (also owned by OSTG), lawyer Ray Beckerman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation explains the RIAA's favorite tactics, and why they play fast and loose with the law. Beckerman also explains why two of these cases may stop the RIAA in its tracks - and what you can do for help." From the article: "In UMG vs. Lindor, the defendant 'is a home house-aid who's never even used a computer,' according to Beckerman. 'She's never operated a computer, she's never even turned on a computer. The only connection she has ever had to a computer is that she has on occasion dusted near the parts that she believes are a computer. And yet she is being pursued as an online distributor in peer-to-peer file sharing.' Since Beckerman became involved in the case after it had gone to federal court, he has tried to learn the details of the charges -- so far with little success. 'The RIAA is trying to conceal the information about how it conducts its investigation,' he says. 'They have stalled every discovery request we've made' -- presumably because to reveal this information would also reveal the weakness of all the similar cases."
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Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Perfect... (Score:4, Insightful)
Debtors Prison (Score:5, Informative)
Bad debtors were once jailed within 'Debtors Prison', being removed as functional members of society, until their debts were paid. Once this was proved to be ineffective, and as modern considerations on fair rights came to play, an effect coined as 'The Race of the Swiftest' occurred. Creditors would, upon learning of a company's misfortune, take legal action against a debtor and be granted a portion of the company's assets in compensation for their debts. While this was reasonably effective for such creditors, there was no remedy for those creditors who were not as 'swift' to learn of the insolvency soon enough.
As a result of this unfairness, various governments introduced Bankruptcy, such as Canada's 'Bankruptcy & Insolvency Act' and the US's 'Bankruptcy Act' (Chapter 11). The intention of these is to balance all interests, while being fair. They are all, in one form or another, intended to (a) give an honest but unfortunate debtor a 'fresh start' by relieving of them of the burden of most of their debts, and (b) to repay creditors in an orderly and fair manner using the resources of the debtor (read: liquidate assets and distribute to creditors based on a fair order of security and distributed evenly within each class).
Just in case debtors prison sounds confusing
-M
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
I finally figured out the mystery why programmers always use the entire bottle of conditioner when taking a shower... Thank you!
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:full circle (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Funny)
You should let them know this. I'll bet no one in history has ever delivered that revolutionary message to college students or teenagers before. Just think of all the lives that could have been saved if a innovative thinker like yourself had been born in an earlier age.
I'm going to go tell my daughter to not have sex or do drugs right now. If only I had thought of it sooner!
-Eric
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm all for prosecuting people who break the law -- but in a court system, not by an under-the-table system that borders on (or may be) blackmail.
--
Evan
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, and on that note, we should also hang all jaywalkers ! Sure, it may seem rough, but jaywalking is against the law, and anyone who breaks the law is a black-hearted subhuman scum and deserves to lose their life ! Down with this silly idea that the punishment should be in some proportion to the crime ! I say: death penalty for everything !
Doing otherwise might mean that some corporation doesn't get quite as much profits than it might have gotten in some alternative reality, and that is much more important than some antiquated concept of "justice" or "fairness". Only an unpatriotic terrorist communist hippie in his drug-induced haze would disagree !
Hmphhh... To think that the punishment can be too harsh... What's this world coming to ?
Re:Perfect... (Score:5, Insightful)
RIAA has some learning to do (Score:4, Interesting)
I download music from the internet quite frequently, if I like the song I have downloaded I will usually buy the album if I don't like it I delete it, does this mean I am commiting a crime? In my case p2p has caused my to buy more cds than I usually would have if I hadn't of been exposed to certain artists and songs. Is this common I really don't know perhaps other people don't purchase cds by artists they like personally I like to support musicians I like.
One great example my favorite group collective soul release an album entirely self financed, the day it was released I was able to find tracks on p2p which I downloaded and listened to constantly, until my next paycheck came through at which point I went out and purchased 5 copies of the album 2 for me 3 for various family members, I did the same with two of their previous albums, I own every single album they have release in some cases more than one copy of the album, it gets interesting when you consider I discovered this group through p2p in the first place.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the point here is that RIAA's methods are objectionable. From what I've read about them, I get the impression the RIAA is like the secret police in the way it works. People should be making a stand outside courts - like boycotting or setting up organizations to oppose RIAA.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Informative)
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem here is that there is too much product on the market to support a cd distribution system. P2P and iTunes services provide a fast and convenient way to both find and listen to new music. Every spent an hour and a half at a record store looking for a particular album? Lord knows I have and its annoying as hell. Of course the only reason I was willing to spend that time to find it was because I had listened to a few songs I downloaded. It is a weak justification but I am provided no alternative. The one exception is of course satellite radio; the last place I can listen to new music without being inundated with advertising.
FM Radio wouldn't be so bad if they broke up their advertising so it wouldn't make it sometimes more than a minute between songs. There is nothing worse than enjoying a song, having it come to the end, and then hearing a loud ad pushing a product you couldn't care less about. You want more music, not just one song at a time.Back to the issue at hand, the RIAA has criminalized the issue and in the process alienated a lot of their customers. One need only to look at the top selling software to see that pirating does not hurt sales but in fact helps it. Think how much Windows was pirated in the past and how much other software has profited from having a computer that can run it. Music is obviously different since it only has one step, nothing to build off past works.
The RIAA needs to stop wasting time and money on this and start working on an online distribution system that works without killing their customers. They want format change after format change, the only problem is existing formats are digital. My father repurchased a lot of his LPs on CD and has since converted almost all of his cds to MP3s which he will always be able to listen to. Why would he want to repurchase it ever again?If they was a subscription based revenue stream then they should provide one, not force people to spuradically rebuy the stuff they've been enjoying for years. Until they realize this people will download illegal software. Might add downloading is in no way criminal, its the uploading part that is in question. Downloading is fair use, just like I can copy a tape and give it to a friend perfectly legally.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Informative)
The key to 1008 in this context is that there has to be the use of a digital audio recording device or digital audio recording medium. The question is, what are those things? Well, we have some important definitions in 1001. Usually the sort of person who cites 1008 will always forget to have checked 1001, to make sure that 1008 actually says what it appears on first glance to say.
So, in order for a computer to be a digitial audio recording device, it must have a digital recording function which is designed or marketed for the primary purpose of making digital audio copied recordings for private use.
This is not the case, however. Ordinary personal computers are general purpose devices; their digital recording functions are the same, whether the data being recorded is text, music, speech, pictures, etc. Thus, it doesn't qualify for 1008.
Similarly, in order for a hard drive to be a digital audio recording medium, it must be primarily marketed or most commonly used by consumers for the purpose of making digital audio copied recordings by use of a digital a
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, they're not a government agency, but in many ways it would be better if they were; we'd probably have more control over them then, and they wouldn't be able to pour money into the political system in the way they do.
But to say they're not "in" government, in terms of having their fingers pulling various strings, is a mistake.
It's not a crime (Score:5, Funny)
It's not a crime. It's perfectly legal to voluntarily give money to an illegal price-fixing cartel, although the morality is obviously questionable.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Insightful)
Sera
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Insightful)
You misspelled "accused". Glad I could clear that up for you.
It is extortion (Score:5, Insightful)
This is extortion.
Why? Because it does not depend on whether the person has actually done anything wrong. Instead the RIAA wields a side-effect of our justice system (cost) as a weapon against whoever they please. Whether they can prove anything makes little difference, it is simply a matter of cost.
Consider this: although piracy can be prosecuted as a crime, the RIAA never follows that path. They always go civil. This way they can neatly avoid the solution of a court-appointed attorney, and they do not have to deal with the police and DA, who have a pesky habit of actually evaluating the merits of cases before going forward. By keeping it civil the RIAA is free to file against whoever the hell they want, no matter how slim the evidence.
By initiating lawsuits against those who willfully, without the consent of the copyright holders, infringe copyrights, it's hard to see how they're "alienating their core market".
How do you know that the defendants are in fact willfully infringing copyrights? They never have the cash to make their case and fight it out in court. From my perspective it's pretty alienating to know that I could be taken to the cleaners for thousands by an industry association, even if I did nothing wrong.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Interesting)
Just a reminder to those who might want to look it up in the dictionary:
extort n. To obtain from another by coercion or intimidation.
The threat and coercion being: Expensive legal fees or expensive settlement. For a person of limited resources, this is legal extortion. That's why some forms of torte reform are unreasonable and unworkable.
And if the fee isn't paid the RIAA gets to file liens or even get the defendant thrown in jail. Also as a reminder liens affect credit ratings which affect loan rates which affect future income... the snowball effect of this really is huge.
I would contend that the REAL piracy is a social piracy on the part of the RIAA. In my opinion, they're plundering our society for short-term monetary gains on what amounts to be bad business processes practices by the RIAA's members. I understand they want to make a buck (who doesn't?), but at what cost to society?
My apologies to the Pastafarians out there for putting the RIAA in the same ball field as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His wrath will be mighty and oregano flavored.
Re:RIAA has some learning to do (Score:5, Funny)
Anti-**AA lawyer "Your Honor, These *.AA people are threatening lawsuits all up in here. They have no evidence. They should make their peace.."
Judge - "Wow.. your right. Case dismisssed!"
*.AA - " but but PIRATES!!"
Judge - "Pirates sail the sea son, now take your extortion racket and leave town"
*.AA - * whine whine lumbering dinosuar of the old world noises *
Judge - "Thats it motherfuckers, you going down!!"
*Judge pulls out sawed off shotty and jumps up on his bench*
Judge - " Pistol grip pump motherfuckers!! "
* *.AA lawyers head asplode *
* Lawyer falls down, a crimson fountain coats everything in recently depreasureized blood. A leather satchel falls to the floor *
Judge - "Well now you dirty slime-yer, whats this?"
* Judge opens the satchel and a small white kitten tumbles out*
Kitten - "mew!"
Judge - " Those evil bastards, they were going to eat that kitten "
* Anti-**AA lawyer steps onto the severed skull of *.AA lawyer crushing it to dust*
Judge - " your kitten eating hording culture days are over. Set my people free! "
* all the peoples of the world get together and share their collective culture and world peace is declared (also bu$h gets cancer and dies)*
-FIN-
This is ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)
This has to stop.
Bingo. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't simultaneously support something you find evil and retain a shred of credibility, so just stop. If you can't stop and are willing to break the law for your fix, I humbly suggest that you quite literally have a substance abuse problem and should seek professional help or a twelve-step program or something.
Hell, spend your CD money on booze and then join AA so you can sit around and blame the RIAA for your alcoholism.
Re:Bingo. (Score:5, Insightful)
breaking the law != doing something wrong.
The law is a ass. -- Charles Dickens
Re:Bingo. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hell, spend your CD money on booze...
Funny you should mention booze. So do you also think Prohibiton would have been rescinded if nobody had broken the law?
Re:This is ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but you're wrong. All the RIAA needs is for someone to tell them (maybe your own ISP, erroneously) that your IP address was associated with an illegal music download. Doesn't matter if they got it wrong. Only way you can prove it is to go to court, at which time the court will order your computer seized to be scoured for evidence, and you will incur thousands of dollars in legal bills even if you win (unless someone takes your case pro bono). Alternatively, you can shell out a few thousand to the RIAA and it will all go away.
Well college students pirate more often so (Score:5, Funny)
Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
To agree to the settlement is basically to agree that you wronged them in some way, and should pay them. Once you've agreed to that, how you actually pay the settlement isn't their problem. They may make suggestions, some of which you might find distasteful or even absurd, but the bottom line is they don't care how you pay a settlement you agreed to, so long as you pay it.
slashdotted already... (Score:5, Funny)
Unbelievable (Score:5, Insightful)
TFA (Score:4, Informative)
By Cassi Hunt
Either since the day I visited my first aquarium or the day Goldie came into my family's life, our parents have told us not to tap the glass of the fish tank. It's cruel to Goldie -- I understand and respect that. I mean, heck, I am a vegetarian. But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point. And in that spirit, I decided to call up my new friend at the RIAA negotiation hotline again. (Hereafter I'll refer to her as Bowie, which means "yellow haired," as I'm pretty sure that's the case.)
Last time I spoke with Bowie, the conversation was pretty much over after she named $3750 as the settlement amount. (I haven't actually agreed to settle yet.) So when I called her again, I asked -- again -- about how to negotiate that amount. I counted on the fact that self-important types wouldn't be inclined to remember a lowly pirate like me. Bowie didn't disappoint. She launched into her spiel about how the RIAA doesn't negotiate settlements. I told her that it was too much to ask for thousands of dollars from a college student who only makes just enough from term and summer employment to still come out a couple thousand in debt.
Bowie replied that the RIAA was oh-so-kind enough to offer a six month repayment plan. At this point, I was beginning to speculate on Bowie's hair color, and decided to switch tactics. I concisely and calmly explained how the situation was ridiculous: they weren't offering a settlement, they were issuing an ultimatum! Let us screw you over gently now, or with chains and whips in court. Surely there must be some flexibility for individual cases.
Well, she replied, they do make allowances if something like a medical emergency comes up. Now we're getting somewhere. "And who would I talk to about a situation like that, because I'd like to talk to them now."
"Me," she replied. Ever feel like your nose has just been flattened by something large and solid? I mean, besides the doors at 77 Mass. Ave. "But you're not in a situation like that."
Oh, but I am. The Institvte has left me with severe bouts of p-set-induced insomnia and a case of stuck-to-desk-itis that recurs two to three times in a semester, then again just before break. And my wallet certainly takes a hit for it.
But as much as I tried to argue that I was in as unique a situation as someone with medical expenses, there was no getting through. Bowie even had the audacity to say, "In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements."
Are. You. Shitting. Me.
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk. The Recording Industry of America would rather see America's youth deprived of higher education, forever marring their ability to contribute personally and financially to society -- including the arts -- so that they may crucify us as examples to our peers. To say nothing of wrecking our lives in the process. I finally understand what the RIAA meant when they told me "stealing music is not a victimless crime" -- the victims hang for all to see.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities. Please tell me you actually care about the futures of the age demographic that buys most of your music (http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/pdf/2004co nsumerprofile.pdf [riaa.com]). Your evil pirates are people too, people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately. Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve consideration, if not for the sake of empathy for your f
Karma to burn! (Score:5, Interesting)
Personal responsibility (Score:4, Insightful)
We all have to make hard choices every day.
The last time I broke a speeding law, it was pretty bogus. I still paid for the ticket and took the classes. IMHO- that particular speeding ticket set up was unfair (basically 70mph
She chose to download songs. She probably also foolishly didn't use programs like peer guardian. She also got unlucky.
Yes- Riaa are weasels. But by now, surely we ALL know that if you download copyrighted material you are risking a 3kish fine (or being ruined in court if you tried to fight it).
Re:Personal responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Allow me to clarify --- if someone accuses you of downloading copyrighted material, you are risking a the fine; regardless of anything so sticky as the truth of wether or nor you actually did it.
The RIAA doesn't need to prove anything. They just claim it, demand a settlement, and strong-arm you into settling. They are never obligated to prove a damned thing. And since it's a civil matter, they know it's cheaper to settle even if you're innocent.
I could claim you're a child molester, but since I have no basis to make the claim, it would be unfair to tar you with that brush (this is a metaphor, not a personal attack, I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person around children).
What if someone who legitimately has NOT downloaded material is accused by the RIAA? They're expected to settle out of court, accept responsibility and blame -- or, they spend a godawful amount of money defending themselves.
People hate these suits from the RIAA because they are brough forth without evidence, without any objective 3rd party, and a whole passle of cranky lawyers. I've said before, the RIAA is effectively acting as their own court system without supervision. And, they can effectively do any damned thing they want to any poor schmuck whose ISP was strong-armed into giving up their information.
The fact that there are no checks and balances on the way this is done, means it's a situation that's just rife with chances for abuse. Oooh, the latest Brittney SPears album didn't sell well? Fine, we'll just make up a couple of people to sue and recoup our losses. It would be no different from the complete vapour trail they provide now.
Any situation in which your accuser seems to automatically be able to force you to settle for thousands of dollars, or be bankrupted in court, is completely broken.
Now, it sounds like the person in this article may have actually downloaded stuff. But if, and I can guaran-f'in-tee I've never downloaded music, I was accused of this same thing, I'd be left with the bullshit choice of settling and accepting guilt, or fighting it and paying through the nose.
Evil (Score:4, Insightful)
I do think content producers (and software writers for that matter) need protection, but that?
Ask yourself, if you worked your butt off for some software and someone who is not willing to pay for it and would not use it if they had to but copied it and offered it for share, should they be made to drop out of college to pay for the settlement?
Re:Evil (Score:5, Informative)
How You Can Fight RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Write your congressman - you can even do it via email. Follow this link [citizen.org] for a really simple way to do that. Will they listen? If enough of you complain they will. (Don't be negative and say democracy doesn't work.)
2. When you talk to your friends, let them know this is going on. Believe it or not, a lot of people don't know about this issue. The more people you tell, the more this becomes an issue.
3. This stuff is making the mainstream news. When you see this issue come up in a newspaper, write a letter to the editor about it. More people read letters to the editor than articles in the paper. Tell people the ideas in this message to get them to not support RIAA.
4. Complain on artist websites and give artists bad press. Not planning on buying the latest Bruce Springsteen CD? Why don't you write him and tell him you're not doing it because he's on a RIAA label. Big artists are not "victims" of decisions by their labels.
5. Buy indie labels and let people know you're buying indie labels.
6. Buy a t-shirt about this. Here's some to choose from:
#1 [jinx.com], #2 [cafepress.com], and #3 [cafepress.com]
Your other alternative is to not give a fuck like everyone else. Everyone has to have their issue and maybe this one isn't yours. Hopefully I've given you some ideas for getting involved about something though.
Some Good Advice (Score:5, Informative)
2. You will not go to jail for non-payment of a civil debt. However, they may find a way to withdraw the funds from your assets (bank account, car, etc.)