Professor Bans Laptops from the Classroom

An anonymous reader writes "USAToday is reporting that students are up in arms over a University of Memphis Professor who has decided to ban laptops from her classroom. Earlier this month Professor Entman sent an email warning to her students to bring paper and pens to take notes and leave the laptops at home. From the article: '"My main concern was they were focusing on trying to transcribe every word that was I saying, rather than thinking and analyzing," Entman said Monday. "The computers interfere with making eye contact. You've got this picket fence between you and the students."'"

I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[eno2001]

I'd call her a free thinker. We need more of them in the world.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[hackstraw]

I'd call her a free thinker.

Most free thinkers make bad sheep/employees/citizens/etc. That is why it is shunned so much in the US educational system and workforce.

I work with computers for a living, but honestly, my personal problems or interests don't need the scale of computers I work with.

To me, staring at a screen, typing every word that a prof says into a Word document is a stupid waste of technology. Isn't that what sound and video recorders are for? Although its been a while since I've been in a college classroom, when I was there, most of my professors taught from PowerPoint presentations and I scribbled the extra information on the slide printouts that were given before the class or at the beginning of the semester/section or whatever.

Personally, I learned more by asking questions of a professor and interacting with them inside and outside of the classroom. But then again, I was/am a free thinker.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Jerf]

To me, staring at a screen, typing every word that a prof says into a Word document is a stupid waste of technology.

It's a way to convince yourself that you're doing work, without actually doing work. Then, when you fail the course, you can whine about how much work you did, and how hard the course must be, and how evil the prof is, and how it's everybody but your fault. Not that that's the reason, of course, but it's one of the effects.

A lot of people confuse "work" with "progress". Not all work is equally valuable. Some, like what you mention, is downright worthless.

(You also get a lot of people mixing up the two concepts when they talk about the "fairness" of MMORPGs. "Fair" becomes defined as everybody doing the same amount of work, not being able to make the same amount of progress. This is one concise way of expressing the fundamental flaw in nearly all current MMORPGs that makes me completely uninterested in them, because this is the root cause of the "grind". And I don't care how MM a game is, I've got way better things to do with my time than pay somebody for the ability to grind.)

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MindStalker]

I've got way better things to do with my time than pay somebody for the ability to grind. Except a good call girl of course!

Re:Had to write

[hawk]

The first time a professor handed out his lecture notes I was amazed, moreso by the fact that it was an obvious but overlooked solution and I'd never seen it before than by his willingness to share.

I always did the same in my ownb classes. Time spent madly scribbling what I write is a simple waste of time, and stops students from paying attention. They always had a reduced version of my slides (whose main point was really to make sure that I didn't skip a planned topic).

hawk

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[xWeston]

An Electrical Engineering professor I had at UCSD didn't allow laptops either. I thought it was a good idea.

In math/engineering classes (or most of them) it is hard to take notes without a pen and paper(tablet) anyway.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[joeljkp]

Yeah, really.

How is this news? None of my professors (engineering) like students using laptops in class, unless we're doing some sort of computer assignment. Several of them make us put them away (or at least close the lid) when they start lecturing.

I find it distracting when I have my computer on, but it's also distracting to the professor. Try talking to a room full of people busily browsing the web sometime.

Of course, in engineering, you'd be crazy to try to take notes on your laptop. Engineering paper and pencil is the way to go.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[eric76]

If I had owned a laptop, I would have been tempted to use it to record what was said in class while I used paper and pencil to take notes.

I used to know a lawyer who as a law student modified a briefcase so he could conceal a tape recorder to tape his law school classes in the early 70's. From the tapes, he would the lectures to paper and then sell copies of the transcribed lectures to other students. While he was at work making deliveries, he would listen to the tapes instead of the radio as he drove.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Lord Apathy]

Why would you want a laptop to record what was said? A micro recorder is cheaper and doesn't weigh as much. I never bothered to conceal it ether. I just walked into class and set it on the desk. I would use it later that night to review the notes I had taken.

Personally, I would never bother to carry a laptop to school unless I had all the books in pdf, or some other format, on it. I was averaging between 20 and 30 pounds of books between classes. Adding another 6 to 10 pounds? No thanks.

To bad someone can't come out with a nice ebook reader about the size of a good text book, a standard ebook format for all the books, and sell it for under 200 bucks.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[dwandy]

You just have to find out what their name on myspace or whatever "online community" they are wasting their time on they are using and join there and remind them there's a actual world outside Cyberspace.

Dear xiando;
You're wasting your time on /. There is an actual world outside Cyberspace.
</reminder>

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[zerocool^]

remind them there's a actual world outside Cyberspace.

LIAR!

The daystar! It BURNS us!

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Fratz]

One of the best teachers I ever had (back in 1990) banned note taking entirely for his Trigonometry and Calculus classes. His view was that if you were taking notes, you would be focusing on writing down what you saw, rather than thinking about it. I can respect that and get behind it, since I've been there and know it works.

However, the professor in question wants people to switch from laptops to paper, basically making them less efficient at note-taking, giving them even less time to pay attention to what she's saying. I don't think she understands that side-effect.

In any case, if she's worried that note-taking is a distraction, why doesn't she just prepare all her material ahead of time, provide it to the students, and then go over it in class in detail? That eliminates 99% of note-taking, causes them to pay attention to her, and makes sure each student gets the same printed information. It seems as if she is putting artificial restrictions on her students in an attempt to achieve a goal without doing anything different herself.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[xiando]

However, the professor in question wants people to switch from laptops to paper, basically making them less efficient at note-taking, giving them even less time to pay attention to what she's saying. I don't think she understands that side-effect.

Let me put it to you like this: You can think about what is being said and store it in your brain connected to information that allows your brain to use the information - which requires you to understand the information in the first place - OR you can write down exactly what his being said on a computer, without listening actively to it so you understand it - and then go on without having learned anything and without having gained any knowledge - safely knowing that all that really happened in the classrom was data litterally being copied from the teacher to your laptop - without being copied to your brain. That's my take on this one, anyways..

Another Good Way

[2names]

One of my high school teachers used a method that worked very well for the students: discussion.

He would lead a discussion of the topic by prompting questions and answers from the students. During the discussion, he would create (on the chalkboard) a running outline of the topics with some details, but not EVERYTHING we talked about. As he wrote on the board, we students wrote in our notebooks, and then went back to the discussion.

I learned more from this method than any other I have used since.

Mr. U., your teaching methods kicked ass!

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[hawk]

"notegivingis the process of passing material from the professor's page to that of the students without passing through either brain."

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[TheCarp]

I think her concern is a little more nuanced.

Yes a laptop makes you more efficient at entering and storing vast amounts of information.

This is normally a benefit.

Her concern, as I read it, is actually not new or common to laptops.

When taking notes, it has LONG been that some students will try to just write everything down word for word. This is VERY HARD to do on paper unless you are a very fast writter.

So most students are forced by inefficiency to become more internally efficient. They learn to listen and think and then take notes based on their own thoughts.

Thus, the difference in efficiency of information transfer between voice and blackboard and paper forced students to think more and learn how to learn in that manner.

Notebooks have, according to her assertion, tipped the scale and allowed more students to be really bad note takers. And by BAD I mean ones who note too much without thinking. Now you really can just focus on entering all the info, without thinking about what you are doing, because it takes all yoru concentration to do it.

In a way it makes sense. I would love to see some studies done to test her assertions.

-Steve

Feynman might agree.

[Kadin2048]

I understand your professor's point, and I think it has a lot of validity.

I had a physics professor, I think it was in a lab class, who used to tell a story about Feynman -- which I can't find any reference to online, so it may be apocryphal, but it made a good story -- that he tought a very small advanced E&M class once, and on the first day of class, when the students were all sitting there, with their notebooks and pencils ready, he walked in and told them to put everything away. No notes, no calculators. The theory being that most of the time when you're struggling to copy down an equation or a diagram off of the board, you're not listening to the lecture, or really thinking about the concepts that are being presented. Given that you're not really going to memorize most of the equations -- they're not really the "take home" knowledge that you retain at the end of the semester, but the concepts are, it's better to pay attention to those. You also end up better prepared for a no-notes test that way. (Although you can argue about the validity of closed-book tests as actual simulators of real-world knowledge.)

My professor (the one who was relating the story) didn't go quite this far, but took a good compromise; he put all his notes and diagrams up on the board before the beginning of class, and gave everyone ten minutes to copy them down before class began. You weren't prohibited from taking notes during the lecture, but it wasn't recommended.

Although I don't want to give that particular aspect of his style all the credit (the guy was also an excellect lecturer as well as being an all-around brilliant physicist), I remember more of the material from that class than I do from anything else I've taken at that level.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[rpdillon]

I have the same problem with this I have with most all blanket rules and/or policies.

I usually agree with the intent (get students to pay attention in class and focus on learning, not web browsing). But the technique is horrible. This kind of thing comes from the mentality that "yet another law will fix it." In this case, the law only applies in the classroom, but it is still a law.

Did the professor start a lecture one day in class and say:
"I've noticed a number of you are using laptops during the class. I like the idea that you are enhancing your learning experience and perhaps taking notes on your laptops, but I would appreciate it if you would keep their use to a minimum during the lecture to avoid distracting other students. If you feel that you must take notes on a laptop for the entire lecture, please make use of the back three rows in the lecture hall to avoid disturbing the other students."

Often, we can solve problems by simply *communicating* with people, rather than implementing some blanket policy that bans laptops. A simple request from the professor goes quite some way, and she could even suggest that if people feel strongly they come see her during office hours to discuss it.

The teacher/student relationship is one of give and take, and both should be willing to communicate to work out a arrangement that benefits the other and themselves. The simple act of talking about a topic is underrated, I think, often in favor of laws, rules and policy.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Marx_Mrvelous]

You're kidding... right? You are paying for the privilege of learning from an expert in a subject. If something is interfering with her teaching, she has every right to remove it from her classroom. It's nice that you're a Graduate Student and all, but you've obviously not learned proper respect for your professors yet. Grow up!

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

AMEN! I've had student try to pull the "I pay your salary, so you work for me" line of bullshit once. Exactly once, because that student was removed from my classroom and had to retake the class with someone else the next term. I don't care if you're at Harvard paying 40 grand a year to go to school, the classroom belongs to the professor. You don't like that professor's rules, take your money and go elsewhere - the school doesn't NEED your self centered, obnoxious ass around anyway.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

One student will not make or break a university - people don't go to a good school based on how well they like the class... they go based on the quality of education and the jobs they can get afterwards. Every whiney self absorbed jackass who leaves a classroom makes room for one more person who's actually going to appreciate the opportunity and make the best of it. Unless the school is accepting every single person who applies, I doubt they have much to worry about.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

What are you going to do if ALL of your students take that stance?

Leave the university, and if it continues happening at other schools, leave education in general. The second I lose control of my classroom, I'll go into industry and triple my salary.

I teach because I love sharing knowledge and educating people. I know how to teach. Most of my students barely know how to learn. The second they are able to dictate policy in my class is the second I stop running the class.

Most skilled educators would do the same - if students tried to "unionize" and run their universities, our education system would be even shittier than it is now. Education is not a business, and students are not customers - it's a fundamental pillar of our society, where those who have knowledge pass it on to those who do not. Try to take away the money, and we'll end up going back to the days of unpaid apprenticeships, where the student practically begs to be taught, and lives like a slave for years while learning.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

You teach because you can't do asshole.

I hate to respond to a troll, but this kind of disrespect for educators is EXACTLY why our education system is so incredibly shitty.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

Well, I'm thankful that I work at a school where they don't seem to have lost the vision. Or maybe it's because I'm in a very fundamental scientific field and not in some big money hot topic. Also, as many others pointed out, my salary is not, in reality, paid by my students, but is paid primarily from goverment grants which support my research. Student tuitions at this particular school tend to be used primarily for infrastructure - the buildings and millions of dollars worth of landscaping, and the mas

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Foobar of Borg]

So, I guess by that rationale, since the students pay the professor's salary, the professor should be forced to give them A's? College used to be about learning, even when I went to school. Apparently it is now only about financial transactions. And while imbeciles like you whine about "but I pay the professor!" the rest of the world will be kicking our butts because they actually bother to get a well-rounded education (well, except in India) instead of learning things that will be here today and gone tommorrow.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Darth_Burrito]

since the students pay the professor's salary, the professor should be forced to give them A's?

One thing that mitigates this, is that students don't pay the professor to teach them, rather they pay the university for things like education, opportunity, and certification of achievement. If everyone got A's, a university degree might actually be less valuable to students... or perhaps more likely... people would start using better metrics.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Metzli]

As a taxpayer, I'd say that I am also paying for this teacher's salary. Given that, I'd say the students should sit down, quit whining, grab pen/paper, and concentrate on actually learning something.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Obfuscant]

Are you saying that students don't pay the salaries of the professors? You'd be an imbecile to deny it.

In the College where I work, the students do not pay one single dime towards the professor's salaries. Professors are paid either directly through grants they receive or by the college from overhead taken from the grants other people receive. This is true for most of the colleges at this University.

For the "liberal arts" that don't have grants, the salaries are paid by the state from tax dollars. The st

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

The room is only big enough for one leader - maybe it should be the one who's teaching? Just a thought.

My ego? Get a grip - most professors' salaries are pathetic compared to what they could make in industry. You don't go into academia because of ego, you either do it because you love research for the sake of knowledge, or you love teaching. I happen to love both.

However, I cannot do my job when some obnoxious nineteen year old is trying to run my class. If he knew what the hell he was doing, he wouldn't need to be in my class in the first place.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Guppy06]

"The room is only big enough for one leader - maybe it should be the one who's teaching? Just a thought."

I wasn't aware there was supposed to be a "leader" in every classroom, at least outside of elementary school.

"You don't go into academia because of ego, you either do it because you love research for the sake of knowledge, or you love teaching."

Not about the ego? All I've seen so far is your trumpeting of your accomplishment of kicking out a student you disagreed with, but I haven't seen you mention exa

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[chud67]

My ego? Get a grip - most professors' salaries are pathetic compared to what they could make in industry. You don't go into academia because of ego, you either do it because you love research for the sake of knowledge, or you love teaching.

My aunt once told me that teachers have the biggest egos in the world; I found it rather interesting that she would say this, because she was an English teacher for more than 20 years. However my recent personal experience has supported this. I got a new boss not too long ago and couldn't seem to get along with him no matter how hard I tried, which was something I'd never experienced before. Every time I disagreed with him on a technical issue, he would get so mad you could practically see steam shooting out of his ears. I explained the situation to a friend of mine who worked as a project manager for another company and he asked me to tell him about my new boss. I said, "Well, he's done some programming, some management, and he teaches programming part time at the local university."
"Hold it right there", my friend said. "Every time I've had to work with someone who came out of a university teaching environment, it was very difficult. The reason why is because they come from an environment where they're always right."
He had hit the nail right on the head.
Realizing what type of person I was dealing with, I backed off and quietly tried to just do my job. However after about a month of him constantly looking over my shoulder, rushing me, and criticizing my work, he got what he wanted: I made a mistake on a project. He then pulled me into the VP's office and wrote me up for "poor performance". I then told the VP that I wanted to go back to my old department (a demotion which I gladly accepted), and have since been working happily for a nice boss who has a strong technical background and, more importantly, a laid back personality.
Lesson learned.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[MustardMan]

Sounds like you got a nasty comination - a shitty teacher, and an even worse beaurocracy. Been there, done that. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of bad teachers, and a LOT of badly run programs. However, if you take away the things that make teaching practical and possible, like a professor's control over his classroom, you're going to drive away the few remaining decent professors you have left.

This brings up another point that chafes my ass as a lower-level educator who's had policy forced upon me.

Mandatory attendance. Unless you're in a lab or roundtable discussion, mandatory attendence is completely idiotic. If someone knows a subject, and just wants the degree, they should have EVERY RIGHT to enroll in the class, and show up for nothing but the exams. If they ace the exams, they've proven they know the material and deserve the degree. Forcing attendance on people is so high school it makes me want to throw up.

That said, I believe those who have done so have every right to choose to use mandatory attendance. If they run the class, it's their decision. When I am running a lecture, you can be damn sure I won't require students to sign in.

Re:Not really...

[MustardMan]

If a professor is genuinely doing things wrong, then the type of drive you spoke about will indeed be sucessful. Indeed, when I was an undergrad I petitioned to get sweeping policy changes implemented - but the fundamental point here was, the majority of good professors AGREED with me, that the changes were needed.

The school backed me up with this student 100%. You want to know why? Because the kid was a spoiled jackass who deserved to fail a class and learn a lesson about respect. That's not me being pompous, it's me putting a stupid kid in his place.

You know NOTHING about what the student's complaint was. You know nothing about the way I was treated. Yet you assume I was a pompous and self absorbed asshole because I removed a student who not only questioned my authority, but disrupted my classroom and negatively affected the learning experiences of the other twenty people in the room. Be careful when you make assumptions about things you don't know, you might find you come across as the self centered, pompous one.

Re:Not really...

[drinkypoo]

You know NOTHING about what the student's complaint was. You know nothing about the way I was treated. Yet you assume I was a pompous and self absorbed asshole because I removed a student who not only questioned my authority, but disrupted my classroom and negatively affected the learning experiences of the other twenty people in the room.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe you're a pompous ass because of the way you referred to the event in question - which as you say we know nothing about. Thus, I can only infer your attitude from the "tone" of your discourse.

Re:Not really...

[rossifer]

As a student I've run into professors like you. Unfortunately not all of us roll over quite so easily. On the contrary, some of us are quite vocal and will work to make things change our way. I led a petition drive that successfully reverted a policy change implemented mid-semester; similar to this case. I was also an RA at the time and went to bat for several students who were getting pushed over by manipulative professors.

Any sane ombudsman will see right through the "I'm paying your salary" bullshit and side with the professor who threw out a disruptive student. On the other hand, professors who grade people who disagree with them lower (especially in contentious topics) should be roundly smacked around by that same ombudsman. Each case will be different, and just because you've met some awful professors in your day doesn't mean that the gp is one of them.

The teacher is responsible for maintaining a learning environment for everyone in the class. One spoiled child can and should be thrown out of a class in order to restore a decent learning environment for the rest of the class. Even more on-topic, ubiquitous wireless internet means that most students with laptops are not paying attention, but are browsing the web, taking care of personal business, etc. If you aren't participating in the class, take yourself elsewhere. Removing the laptops from the classroom is just about the only way to limit that sort of highly disruptive behavior and actually give other students what they're paying for.

Regards,
Ross

Re:Not really...

[vux984]

Long story short a vocal student can get what he wants just as easily if not easier than a professor. The whole point of the university system (beyond generating papers and research for more funding) is to educate. If I can't optimally absorb knowlege then there is a problem, and I will make sure damn sure that problem is resolved. Quite honestly, the students don't need your self-centered, self-absorbed pompous self either.

Aww shucks... there are two sides... sometimes teachers can be jackasses, sometimes

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[medeii]

You are paying for the privilege of learning from an expert in a subject.

Precisely. But I learn my way, not my professor's way. There's an awful lot of teachers who know quite a bit about their subject matter and absolutely nothing about how to teach a group of students, or absolutely nothing about how people learn in general. It's my personal experience that many of those same teachers have (1) no interest in technology as a learning assistance tool, (2) engage in willful ignorance when such benefits are presented to them, and (3) attempt to control their classroom with an iron fist. I may be paying for the privilege of learning from an expert, but that does not give them carte blanche to give me orders. There is a wide gulf between maintaining order in a learning environment and attempting to discipline students because of perceived inattention; one is required, the other a pathetic display of inflated self-worth.

If something is interfering with her teaching, she has every right to remove it from her classroom.

There's a wide gulf between someone playing a game with the sound up in class, obviously distracting students, and students that are taking notes on a laptop (or, god forbid, amusing themselves during a boring stretch.) If a teacher is so self-absorbed as to feel slighted when not receiving the complete and full attention of every person in the vicinity, it's time for them to find another profession. Personally, I think a two-week stint as a corporate trainer to a bunch of managers would do many professors a world of good.

It's nice that you're a Graduate Student and all, but you've obviously not learned proper respect for your professors yet. Grow up!

After so many years of school -- and that many awful, expanded-ego professors -- respect is something I don't automatically give just because someone's standing behind a lectern. Respect is something I give to people, not positions.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Guppy06]

"You are paying for the privilege of learning from an expert in a subject."

No, you are paying for the "privilege" of learning from someone who claims to be an expert in a subject. It remains to be seen whether the professor in question actually knows what they're talking about, but by the time a student is able to determine one way or the other, the opportunity to get even a partial refund after dropping the class has passed.

"It's nice that you're a Graduate Student and all, but you've obviously not learne

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Guppy06]

That doesn't work if there's no "truth in course catalogs" policy in the school.

Case in point: a university has two professors teaching thermodynamics: one who is tolerable, and one who nobody likes. Predictably, everybody signs up for a section taught by Professor Tolerable, and yet somehow, by some "clerical mistake," the professors swapped sections just before the first day of classes. After showing up for the first day of classes and seeing who would be teaching, easily one-third of the students in

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Baseball_Fan]

I'm a Graduate Student and I take my Powerbook to all classes. I pay for University and I'll be damned if a Professor will tell me how I'm going to learn and if I can/can't take my laptop to the class I am paying for.

If you were in the same class as me, I would prevent you from using your laptop. I can't think with clicking noises. I paid for that class too, and I have a right to learn just as much as you do.

This is like letting cigarettes in public places. It is not the smokers right to light up, it is the public right to breath clean air.

Your clicking is noise pollution. It is no different than starting a conversation with the person sitting next to you, and disrupting the class. The professor has every right to maximize the learning for all students, not to protect the rights of one to use his laptop.

You have every right to take your hand written notes and type them in your laptop after class. You don't have the right to do it during class when you can disturb others.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Phurd Phlegm]

Your clicking is noise pollution. It is no different than starting a conversation with the person sitting next to you, and disrupting the class. The professor has every right to maximize the learning for all students, not to protect the rights of one to use his laptop. You have every right to take your hand written notes and type them in your laptop after class. You don't have the right to do it during class when you can disturb others.

What's to prevent someone from saying that the scratching of the pen or pencil on the paper is a distraction to them? It seems to me that I could come up with an objection to any technology you chose to use to take notes.

And then there's the issue of loud breathing. I don't think people that breath loudly should be allowed to pollute my learning environment.

The professor is a prima donna and should learn to live in the real world. I'd like to see her tell the judge that the court reporter has to memorize everything or she'll stop arguing her case. The earlier poster has it right--the student is paying for the teaching, not vice versa. However, I'd expect a law student to come up with something more innovative than a petition. Something like using a laptop as a reasonable accomodation under the ADA . . . .

Man I'm torn.

[numbski]

Back in 1996 I was one of the rare students that actually owned a laptop computer. Good old Compaq P133 with a whopping 24MB of RAM. w00t!

I got in trouble though. You see, at least 3 of my profs wanted us to not only keep notebooks, but turn those notebooks in at intervals for review. WTF?

So...I saved them all was word documents, and turned them in as a zip file. The profs were note amused.

They wanted sprial-bound notebook and handwriting. How could I prove my notes were my own otherwise?

I had to take it to the school's administration and finally they accepted my notes...begrudgingly. I wound up failing one of the classes however because my notes were not..."lengthy" enough? It seems that despite I type faster than I can handwrite (and I can actually ready my typing later!), my notes seemed shorter and smaller because well, they WERE smaller. I was using a variable-width font, about 10 point to be exact. I was so mad. I told her to count letters or words if she must to compare against other students, but to no avail. I think more than anything she wanted to make an example out of me.

Seems I was actually just way ahead of the curve and getting bushwhacked for it. :\

Grading based on notes taken == asinine

[MrNougat]

Just because I have written down a bunch of notes doesn't mean I understand what I've written, and just because I've written down nothing at all doesn't mean I don't understand what's being taught.

Notes have never done me any good, and I've never taken them. My high-school biology teacher gave me a public dress-down for not taking notes about various Latin-named microscopic organisms. I still didn't take any notes, and got an A- on the test. The teacher apologized to me.

Also, just because I pass a test d

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[pclminion]

I pay for University and I'll be damned if a Professor will tell me how I'm going to learn and if I can/can't take my laptop to the class I am paying for.

Looks like you're "damned" then. Good luck presenting the "but I'm paying for it!" argument to the deans. Have fun dropping out of school to pursue your ideals.

Whan I went to school...

[WebCowboy]

...we'd call people like you losers.

Of course, laptops weren't quite as elegant in the early-to-mid 90s and the geekiness factor of toting a laptop with you wherever you went was much higher. However, "the laptop guy" was pretty high up on the "piss of the class list"--probably higher up than the "just doesn't get it and asks too many stupid questions that should be saved for after class guy". Why was "laptop guy" the target of such derision?

* he was being a showoff--"look at the fancy toy I bought courte

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[XenoRyet]

I'm a Graduate Student and I take my Powerbook to all classes. I pay for University and I'll be damned if a Professor will tell me how I'm going to learn and if I can/can't take my laptop to the class I am paying for.

You're not paying for an individual class, you're paying for an education as presented by the University you chose. If a professor decided that laptops are detrimental to that education, and the University agrees with him, then a ban is perfectly legitimate.

If you find that the education your school provides is not compatible with your needs, you are certainly allowed to find another University. Just as the University is allowed, if they find you are not meeting their standards, to kick you out.

The University isn't simply selling you a product. The are certifying that you meet a certain set of standards. That means that the mere fact that you are paying to attend classes does not allow you to do whatever you like in those classes.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent point. Did they teach you false analogies at University or did you do outside research?

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Moby Cock]

Part of the job of a teacher is to teach how to learn.

No way. Not at the university level. It is up to the student to experiment and find out how they best learn. It is incumbent on the prof to support various learning styles.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[pclminion]

No, it is incumbent on YOU to figure out how to process the information handed out by the professor, however he damn well pleases to impart that information. This is not a third grade classroom where Johnny is a "visual learner" and Sarah is "learns through story telling." In the real world people will not magically adjust to your "personal learning style." They are going to feed you information and you are going to have to deal with it.

A University is a place where you turn into an actual adult, not just a physically mature human being. Grow up and learn to handle reality.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Compenguin]

If the professor cannot be bothered to impart the information in such a way as to make his students learn it as well as possible, then perhaps he should find another job. He is, after all, a teacher being paid to teach, not a wise man imparting his pearls of wisdom in the form of incomprehensible riddels out of the goodness of his heart.

Actually he's paid to do research and asked to teach on the side.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[JediTrainer]

He is, after all, a teacher being paid to teach, not a wise man imparting his pearls of wisdom in the form of incomprehensible riddels out of the goodness of his heart.

I don't know what University you went to, but in mine the professors are there to do research, write papers and get published.

Teaching is an afterthought. This is how the University gets their income to do the above.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Pantero Blanco]

You're comparing watermelons to peanuts. The boombox disturbs OTHER people; the laptop doesn't. If a college student wants to listen to heavy metal on a private mp3 player with headphones the whole time, let them.

The job of a post-secondary teacher is to present information in the best way they can; receiving it is the choice of the student.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[venicebeach]

I think the laptop does disturb other people, both directly and indirectly. It certainly disturbs the professor. It can change the whole dynamic of the class, and thereby alter the learning process for everyone.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[chickenmonger]

I'll agree with this one wholeheartedly. I know a guy who brings his laptop to class every day. Just yesterday, in our senior-level aircraft structures class, he had his laptop out. Not a big deal, if he were taking notes with it, but he was in the front row, and playing Sid Meyer's Pirates all class. Distracted a good portion of the room for most of the class period. (and during a midterm review of all times...)

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[nelsonal]

Perhaps not the laptop, but the guy in front of me's screen saver in multi-variable calc was certainly distracting.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[lcsjk]

Many people don't realize how annoying it is for the teacher to keep on talking while you are trying to see the pron on the laptop two rows ahead.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[johnfatz]

The boombox disturbs OTHER people; the laptop doesn't."

• What are you talking about? Have you ever sat near a person tick tick ticking away on a laptop while in a lecture? Or are you the personing doing that really annoying ticking?! Then theres the hummmmmm from the laptop too which while faint is still noticeable. Pen and paper is the only way to go for note taking. When people make mistakes on laptops they tend to bang the keys in a frantic fashion and manage to be even more annoying! I applaud her actions as I would ban them too!

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[gentlemen_loser]

I have an older Dell XPS laptop for work. It took me forever to get "used" to what sounds like a constant lightsaber battle going on inside it.

I know for fact that it distracts me and people around me in a professional setting. I'm sure that it would also distract people in the class room.

So now we have the rule that all laptops, except mine will be allowed in the classroom. Or is that all laptops except the noisy ones? What is noisy? Does the screen brightness bother anyone? We'll need a rule to handle that too.

I'm of the opinion that its just easier to say no laptops.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[hazem]

The boombox disturbs OTHER people; the laptop doesn't.

Have you ever been in a classroom where one guy is clicking away so loudly at the keys that you can hardly concentrate? So, you sit on the other side of the room.

But now, in front of you are two people IM'ing each other, and showing each other music-video websites.

It IS distracting. It's hard enough to focus, but it's even worse with so many more distractions.

Come to class if you want to learn, but if you want to socialize, take your laptop and go sit

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[file-exists-p]

Do you think a theacher has to accept that a student tells him with a loud voice that he does not give a shit about his course ? Listening to a mp3 player is exactly that.

Your argument about "it does not disturb others" is typical of geeks: it totally ignores the social dimension.

Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite

[Urusai]

Most technology in the classroom actually interferes with the education process. I hate the lecture method, but I hate it even more when the first 15 minutes of the class is spent trying to get the video linkup to work, and the professor is constrained to a small region of the classroom in order to stay on camera, and even worse when they try to display notes, etc., and they have to dumb it down so that it is remotely conveyable.

There's a human dimension that's missing, too; you don't interact with people

What's next?

[klenwell]

Requiring students to actually show up to class?

Re:What's next?

[Guspaz]

What good are they? Well, for somebody like me, they're required to take notes in anything but a math class.

My handwriting is rather slow and poor, and I can't keep up in most classes. Math classes are the exception, as there tends to be less writing while taking notes.

On the other hand, I'm a touch typist, and can easily type notes while making eye contact with the professor. How does a laptop prevent eye contact if I don't need to look at the keyboard or monitor to type?

If I were in that professor's class

don't fear

[flynt]

My main concern was they were focusing on trying to transcribe every word that was I saying, rather than thinking and analyzing

Oh, I'm sure they were thinking and analyzing, but more likely about how to win the current game of Minesweeper or Solitaire.

obvious solution

[Surt]

People should just take audio recordings of lectures instead. Then you can automate transcription. If you record video or snapshots of the white/black board then you're really covered. At that point, you can fully involve yourself with the lecture, without having to worry about the risk of failing to record something you'll need to pass the final. Every school should encourage this.

Re:obvious solution

[garcia]

People should just take audio recordings of lectures instead.

It's a growing trend for schools to offer podcasts [google.com] of lectures as well as information about the admissions process.

Re:obvious solution

[dougmc]

People should just take audio recordings of lectures instead. Then you can automate transcription.

Good luck with that. Sure, dictation programs do exist, but they generally can't just take spoken words and accurately convert them to text. You'll be doing this yourself, manually. Which means that your one hour class will now take at least two hours. Granted, you might learn something by doing the transcription, but maybe not.

Seems to me the most effective method would be to go to class, take spar

Emailing Students

[u16084]

Since Students were not making eye contact while taking notes, she emailed them again, stating pencils and pens are now banned also.

Ridiculous

[thatguywhoiam]

I can type a lot faster than I can write with a pen.

Why didn't the Prof mandate voice recorders, if that was really the concern?

Can I say "good"

[gowen]

I've taught a number of classes at university level, and I hate people note taking with laptops, for the following reasons:
i) Too few of them are good enough typists to focus on whats being said properly.
ii) It's almost impossible for them to copy down diagrams or any complex equations, or make decent marginal notes.
iii) It's much noisier than pen and paper, and paper is easier to highlight and annotate.
iv) They remember the content better if they make pencil notes, and type them up later.

Re:Can I say "good"

[xRelisH]

I've been taking notes with my laptop for over a year now, and it's worked out well for me. All I use are some macros and a laptop mouse to help with doing diagrams. I think laptops have advantages for these reasons:
1) It's easier to bring along one laptop instead of several binders full of dog-eared papers to take notes.
2) I use Perforce to keep what's on my laptop in sync with what's on my desktop, so there isn't much of a fear of suddenly losing my notes.
3) There's no shuffling around binders and pages of notes to find the note you're looking for with a laptop, everything is organized directories and I can search through them.
4) I can easily refer to supporting material during the lecture. Profs often have the class slides posted online, and sometimes we're stuck with a horrible projector that won't focus, I can simply download the notes and follow along on my own screen without having to sit at the front of the class.

Re:Can I say "good"

[garcia]

iv) They remember the content better if they make pencil notes, and type them up later.

Wake me up when professors learn to understand that students have schedules that do not usually permit triplicate work.

Re:Can I say "good"

[gardyloo]

Good for you some of us have jobs extracurricular activities and personal projects that absorb tons of extra time.

      Great! It's fine that you're putting yourself through school (or whatever you're using the money for). On the other hand, you're putting yourself through school -- I assume it's for actually learning things, right? -- which means that extracurricular activities and "personal projects" can take a back seat to what you should be focusing on. If you want to half-ass it, that's fine. Some people have to really study hard. They give up "extra" stuff to actually learn. You know, like in real life.

Purpose of lecture time

[timster]

Often students seem to believe that lecture time is when the professor Speaks and the students are supposed to Remember. I'd guess this is due to poor teaching methods in public high schools, where there is a focus on rote.

Ideally the purpose of class time is for the professor to lead the students to understanding. The book has the facts and figures and whatnot, but for many students just reading the book doesn't make things click. Every group of students will need to be led to understanding a slightly different way, and class time with the professor is a chance for that to happen. It's supposed to be a session of brain activity, not mere transcription.

Re:Purpose of lecture time

[dsci]

I agree. In fact, I'd go one step further than this prof when I was teaching. Sure, there were things that wanted my students write down: solutions to sample exercises worked in class, etc. But often, I wanted to explain something - to communicate. So, I'd tell my students to put their pens down and look UP.

And, provide me feedback if they are getting "it" or not. As a teacher, you don't get that 'real time' if the students are blindly trying to transcribe every word or copy every mark on the board.

Re:Purpose of lecture time

[Moby Cock]

Absolutly right.

But its a university, the students are expected to take the responsibility of ensuring their understanding. Banning laptops is simply patronizing. If somebody wants to focus on rote transcription, that's his perogative, and she should let him be.

Laptops aren't for taking notes

[Jason Earl]

I recently went back to school after a long time (10 years) off campus, and I was expecting laptops to be a much bigger deal than they are. For the most part it looks to me like the folks that are actually taking notes are still using paper. The folks with laptops appear to spend most of their time either surfing the web or chatting online.

I suppose I can understand a teacher wanting her students to actually pay attention. Of course, if she gets paid either way...

I agree

[venicebeach]

I totally agree with this professor. When I teach I often feel like I am in a room full of stenographers. It's a distraction to me, and definitely is not the kind of interaction I want to have with a student. It's also counterproductive in my opinion since the best way to really remember something is to process it at the deepest level you can - think about it, connect it with other thoughts and knowledge, etc. That cannot happen when one is focused on the low level aspects of the information, e.g. translating the sounds into written text. The visual barrier the laptop screen forms is also a problem. Not only does it prevent me from seeing the student's reactions, but it's hard to compete with all that light for a student's visual attention.

To counteract this I try and provide as much material as I can - lecture slides available on line before class for example, so they don't feel there is a ton of information that will be lost if it isn't written down immediately. This improves classes immensely.

Thinking in lectures

[Tx]

I agree with her that students should be spending their time thinking about what she's saying, but writing notes on paper doesn't facilitate that any more than laptops do. My favourite lecturer at university gave us printed notes for every lecture, precisely so we didn't have to write anything down, and could focus on thinking about the subject. I did great in that class, and to this day I don't understand why many lecturers still insist on making people take notes instead of following suit.

Re:Thinking in lectures

[gluteus]

The best lectures I've attended also used this method. Before class, you downloaded and printed out the powerpoint slides and brought them to class. As the lecture progressed, you sat and listened and scribbled on the printouts of the slides to add extra explanations, comments, etc.

The important thing to note was that the lecturers were very well organized, and put a lot of thought and effort to put the slides and the lecture together. If they hadn't done it right, the result would have been awful.

Next step

[iMaple]

The professor announced that his next step was to ban all the paper and pencils in the class.

"My main concern was they were focusing on trying to transcribe every word that was I saying, rather than thinking and analyzing, The notebooks interfere with making eye contact. You've got this picket fence between you and the students. Even since paper and writing was invented teaching has been hindered. I propose that we abolish the alphabet once and for all"

The Professor is arguably correct in the theory

[jd]

You've got to concentrate on what is being described, not on what is being said. The students are not there to be secretaries - unless it's a secretarial class. However, pen and paper alone won't fix the problem, as the students will just transcribe that way.

In this day and age, the simplest thing would be to have the lecturer set up a webcam that can view the lecturn and blackboard/whiteboard, with a microphone to record what is said. The students could then be issued with a DVD of the lecture, which covers the notes angle. In order for the students to bother turning up - and stay awake - the lecture then has to become more interactive, with students actually solving problems (for example) for which they are graded.

The best way to learn is to do, the best notes are the ones NOT made in a rush in real-time, the best classes are the ones where students learn more than what is presented - but also where you are not penalized for not mind-reading what "more" you are "supposed" to learn.

Re:The Professor is arguably correct in the theory

[Coryoth]

The best way to learn is to do, the best notes are the ones NOT made in a rush in real-time, the best classes are the ones where students learn more than what is presented

For courses I had difficulty with, or where a large volume of mateial was being covered, I found the most effective way to understanding was to take handwritten notes during the class and then, in the evenings, transcribe them onto computer (in my case, as I was doing math courses, into LaTeX). The act of going through and transcribing, while it sounds like needless work, was actually when I learned the most. To translate scrawled notes into detailed LaTeX notes required thinking about and understanding each concept so I could translate it correctly.

The benefit of course was having a nice set of notes fully written up at the end of the course. It's a great way to learn if you're so inclined.

Jedidiah.

Re:The Professor is arguably correct in the theory

[Asic Eng]

When I was in university we had a class on field theory. The script was available as a bound book, which everybody bought (though technically it wasn't required). Nevertheless there was a student in class taking notes . The lecturer asked her "Why are you taking notes? You have the book, right?". (It was in fact quite visible on her desk.) She explained that taking notes allowed her to better focus on the lecture. I never took notes during that class, preferring to listen. At the end of the term I got a good grade - so did she.

Thing is - people are learning in different ways, what works well for her may not work so well for me and vice versa.

Laptops Don't Always Improve Learning

[ironwill96]

Contrary to what the media and Bill Gates or Steve Jobs would like you to believe, sometimes technology in the classroom can be a distraction.

I graduated just a year ago from a decent size University (10,000 students) and since I was getting a Computer Science degree I saw laptops in use in a lot of my classes. I'd say that 50% of the time people were playing video games of some sort or another, playing FreeCell or Solitaire, watching DVDs and generally using the laptop to do anything *but* take notes. This in turn distracted everyone else around them as they focused on whatever the person on the laptop was screwing around doing instead of on class.

I'll be honest, some of these classes were boring and I was occasionally envious of the people with laptops, but when I went to do homework or study for a test, I actually had some notes since with just pen and paper there is not a lot you can do to amuse yourself unless you have a really active imagination or like doing the box game or playing Tic-Tac-Toe for hours on end.

Now, some will say "but not everyone will use the laptop to screw around", and that's not my point. The point is, SOMEONE will, and that will distract everyone else. I've seen it happen and anyone claiming that it doesn't happen is lying.

So basically, I applaud her move and think that not every class should allow laptops in the classroom as sometimes technology is more of a hindrance than a help.

Re:Laptops Don't Always Improve Learning

[robertjw]

I feel that those students who are going to use classtime for recreational persuits should just not bother to show up. Those of us who have trouble concentrating really have a hard time focussing when someone else is doing something more interesting than Biology/Freceh lit./composition/...

Absolutely. This is completely my point. Unfortunately, many college professors have started making attendence a requirement for a passing grade. This has the same effect it has at the highschool level. Students that aren't interested in learning, or can 'breeze through' as you put it end up showing up and being a distraction to the class. University is not public school with a 'no child left behind' attitude. Personally, if I was in a class that I was paying for and wanted to pass and someone was doing distracting things I would take steps to eliminate the distraction. College students are free to change seating, ask the person creating the distraction to stop or even drop the class if needed.

Why is this a Story?

[ShyGuy91284]

I've had professors that don't like laptops, and probably a few that have stated no laptops in their syllabi. Why didn't they make the news? I'm in the middle of a class right now (although a 10 minute break), and I can say that this is more distracting then it is useful during a lecture. I typically only use it for notes (except for really boring classes), but I rarely see anyone just using a laptop for just notes, if at all..... If she was saying "blah blah, you can't come in the room with a laptop in your bag. if you do, you are not allowed in class" I could see why this is a story, but this is stupid. Teacher likes students paying attention. Now I will return to class due to the professors glare...

Tablets

[Therlin]

My previous employer was a University that was about to go "mobile" by requiring every student to have a laptop.

After a few tests and faculty round-tables, it was decided that the models that will be provided at steep discounts to students will be tablets just because of the "picket fence" effect that is mentioned in the article.

Furthermore, tablets encourage the use of a stylus which means that (many?) students will still be taking notes by writing and analysing instead of typing.

Make Lecture Notes available

[kfstark]

The best thing I ever did in College was buy subscriptions to the lecture notes for my classes that offered them. At UC San Diego, a student who had taken the class before (and got an A) would attend class and take notes. These notes were cleaned up and made available each week. I could take cursory notes of what I thought was important and fill in the rest with the lecture notes from someone who already understood the material.

Unfortunately, some professors did not want the service in their classroom since they thought students would skip class. These were usually the same professors who got upset that the entire class was busy scribbling away writing verbatim notes. I found that the lecture notes were not a replacement for going to class. Often the class time had more participation and discussion that was as important as the notes.

--Keith

For those of you who haven't been to law school...

[sweetnjguy29]

...which I assume is the vast majority of readers on slashdot...

First year law classes aren't computer science lectures where everyone sits passively and takes notes. Law Professors practice the socratic method. Which means that the professor calls on a student and asks that student a question. If the student answers correctly, then the professor asks another question. Then the professor asks a question which he knows the student can't answer. Then the professor yells at the student and asks why he is a moron. Then the professor takes the case book and beats the crap out of the student with it. A notebook computer doesn't fit into this routine.

I'm exaggerating slightly, but thats what a lot of first year law students go through.

I think that she teaches first year civil procedure. This is a very hard class that covers the mechanics of filing a law suit. It is very tricky and nuanced and even experienced lawyers don't understand it fully. Since she co-wrote a treatise about Tennessee Civil Procedure it is not surprising that according to Ratemyprofessors.com, Prof. Entman "expects you to be able to recall every detail from every footnote from every case you ever read." Yikes!

Interestingly, Prof. Entman was a social studies teacher in the late 60s and early 70s for 7 years before going into the law. I imagine that notebook computers don't fit into her conception of a learning environment.

Laptops are a huge distraction

[x_man]

I normally wouldn't care what a student uses to take notes, but laptops are a huge distraction for the rest of the class. The constant clicking, the screen glow, the guy surfing Slashdot in front of you on the school's wireless network. If you really want annoying, these same students will stand up and snap images of the whiteboard with their cellphones because they can't figure out how to draw the diagrams on their laptop.

So here I sit, quietly, with my 99 cent Meade folder, 30 cent pencil, and a dollar's worth of notebook paper, taking far more detailed and accurate notes than anyone with a $2000 laptop. What these law students need to learn is that sometimes the most technologically advanced solution is not always the best solution. And cheers to the professor for realizing this.

X

Just wondering...

[Lord_Slepnir]

I'd be curious to see some of her other classroom policies. She sounds a lot like a professor that I had whose lecuture were (1) putting up an advertisement for Altera (he used to work for them), (2) spending the rest of the class going over the ad. After a week, I realized that the class wasn't worth going to, so I stopped going. First he sent out an angry e-mail saying that he was going to start doing attendance checks. A week later, he sent out another one complaining that we were just going to his class and sleeping.

What I've learned over my 4 years in college was that if the professor is good, and actually adds value to what they're teaching, students will come, and students will pay attention. Sure, there will be a couple that won't, but a majority of students want to get the most value out of their educational dollar. If a professor wastes everyone's time (Are you hearing this, professors Mitra / LaMont / Chang?), then they'll have to resort to attendance checks and other stuff like that so they can fool themselves into thinking that they're actually teaching. This seems an awfully lot like she's one of those professors, trying desperatly to get students to pay attention.

What about the books in digital format?

[SigNick]

My reason for always carrying my laptop with me is that I have ALL the books and lecture notes in PDF/PPT.
Just by downloading the books from eMule I've saved more than $500 just in this semester, one third of the cost of my laptop. As a bonus I can chat with cute chicks from other faculties during lunch, on the bus during my 20min commute or even at boring classes ^____^

OneNote & Tablet PCs

[Nightspirit]

I can honestly say I have never looked at my old, scribbled notes written in 5-subject notebooks throughout getting my BS. They're locked in the closet in a box, and I'm likely to throw them away soon. I can barely even read the writting.

However, using my tablet PC and OneNote, the information is actually relevant after the lecture (currently in medschool). If I'm looking for a particular word or subject, I do a seach and OneNote can find it throughout subjects.

The tablet PC negates the (can't make drawings, highlight, etc) "not-paper" problem.

His problem with students not paying attention may be legit, and a tablet PC may not even help with that (can still surf the web, etc), but IMO a tablet PC is a superior solution to pen and paper, and nothing stops students from drawing or scribbling.

All my freshman classes

[sgent]

were taught in classrooms with NeXT pizza boxes on every student's desk, with a copy of Mathematica. By the time I finished that first year, I knew the material so well that I can still do multi-variable regressions, transforms & D.E., model an E&M problem, and solve for algorithms -- this after I tranfered schools, changed majors, and haven't used most of it in 15 years. Computer's are not easy to integrate into classrooms, and I think there is a valid argument for keeping them out of many hummanity classrooms. But anyone who thinks they can't add massively to an understanding of physics, mathematics, chemistry, etc. just hasn't seen them used correctly.

She has every right, but she's still wrong.

[Errandboy of Doom]

First, I think a teacher has every right to completely control her classroom environment. But I think she's exercising poor judgment here.

Bad note taking habits have nothing to do with the tools you use. Some students take too many notes with paper. Some take too few on a laptop. She's essentially saying that good note taking habits cannot be taught; that sort of defeatism doesn't make her sound like that great of a teacher to me.

Besides, I think she'll be amazed when some of her students manage to avoid thinking about the material even without the assistance of modern gadgetry.

OT but relevant

[smoker2]

In the UK, a larger proportion of total marks in any subject is being awarded for course work. ie, the stuff they did during the year while they were preparing for the exam. This is absolute bollox !

In real life, bleating that you did something good 2 months ago isn't going to help you solve the problem you are facing now ! Similarly, more and more exams are using multiple choice systems for the answers. well, I'm sorry, either you know it or you don't. You can take an "educated" guess when the answer is written in front of you - real life isn't like that.

Consequently people are leaving schools thinking that they've learned a few subjects, when all they've done is memorise a few aspects. Utterly useless in the workplace. and it seems to spread into all their other dealings where they are expected to think and evolve solutions. People take a driving test, and then drive that way for the rest of their life, except they get worse as they forget what they learned. The test is to demonstrate a basic and safe understanding of driving. It is the minimum not the be all and end all. But they have the certificate so that's all they ever aspire to.

As for laptops in the classroom, well that is just exacerbating the problem, unless you can touch type without looking at the screen, and are highly skilled at it, then you aren't listening to the tutor at all. The only reason you are taking the "notes" is to cram them the night before the exam. Which means you aren't learning, or understanding, just parroting someone elses thoughts. And then political pressure arises because so many people are so average, that they lower the standards so that people feel better.

And so the cycle goes. It's amusing that the UK govt. is now talking about streaming different ability levels in schools. They're the ones who abolished it in the first place !. No one was allowed to be any better than anyone else, so they all had to take the same courses in the same classes. Now they reap the consequences.

When I did maths at school, calculators were only allowed if you were in the top stream, ie you had demonstrated that you could do it in your head anyway. These days, calculators are required for all pupils. They can't add, subtract, multiply or do division of even simple problems without a gadget to do it for them. That sucks, and they are worse off for it, and so are we.

As another poster pointed out, the govt. doesn't want an educated population, because they might actually realise what's being done to them. It amuses me that all these kids with their degrees are worthless in the real world, but it doesn't matter because they all end up in the "service industry" ie office workers. And they think they're clever. As long as they've got a shiny BMW and the latest TV and HiFi they think they are the dogs bollux. In actual fact the govt. has them by the bollux, because they can't do anything else.

</RANT>

(breathe....)

what was the movie ......

[nblender]

I think it was a John Cusack film from 10+ years ago. Students were taping lectures by putting tape recorders on the desks in the auditorium and leaving. After a while the auditorium was full of tape recorders on desks plus John Cusack taking notes. The teacher revolted by broadcasting the lecture from a boombox to a room full of tape recorders.

This is a modern day version of this. The next optimization will be that the teacher will put the entire lecture up on the projector as a powerpoint; scheduled to start at 13:01.

Neither option is the best

[Belgand]

As a recent grad I've found that the best way to deal with notetaking in class is for the prof to provide you with their lecture notes. Some only made notes available after the class while others had their full notes available before you even sat down for your first day. While it strongly depends on the subject having notes available frees students from having to copy down notes during class - the professors who did not make notes available often expected you to copy them down from their slides during class - and allowed you to pay attention to the class. Those who didn't often had various reasons for it (more than a few felt that writing down notes during class helped you to learn better... I and my sore writing hand strongly disagreed) but the end result was that after the lecture you typically only remembered what the slides were and relied much more on the professor to write good slides. One memorable class (Biology of the Cancer Cell) didn't have a book and none of the notes were available online. If you missed a few words or didn't make it to class that day you were beyond screwed.

As long as you're concerned with taking down notes you'll never be able to actually take valid, intelligent notes about what the professor is saying. Whether you use a laptop or wear out your hand writing down complete notes on paper the only way to really pay attention to a lecture is to know that you have the freedom to actually listen to the lecture itself for once.

Re:This is a teacher?

[MustardMan]

My past experience is that "trying to transcribe every word rather than thinking and analyzing" is exactly what most teachers want.

That's because most teachers are bad teachers.

For that matter, most students in the US system are bad students. The way many lectures SHOULD work (especially in the sciences) is, you read the relevant section of the text before class, and then keep the text open while the teacher lectures and fills in the gaps in your understanding. In my experience TAing in the US, very few students have the discipline to actually prepare for lecture