Slashdot Log In
Internet Searches Reveal CIA's Secrets
Posted by
Zonk
on Sun Mar 12, 2006 06:26 AM
from the those-pesky-interwebs dept.
from the those-pesky-interwebs dept.
GabrielF writes "In another blow to the reputation of the agency that just can't seem to get anything right, the Chicago Tribune used web searches and various commercial online databases to uncover a treasure trove of information about the CIA. The Tribune found the identities of over 2600 CIA employees (including an undisclosed number of covert operatives) as well as the locations of over two dozen CIA facilities across the U.S., internal telephone numbers, and information on 17 aircraft."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ch
This one was interesting too.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ch
Nice to see no expenses spared for kidnapping someone.
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:4, Informative)
TRIBUNE INVESTIGATION
Internet blows CIA cover
It's easy to track America's covert operatives. All you need to know is how to navigate the Internet.
By John Crewdson
Tribune senior correspondent
Published March 11, 2006, 12:00 PM CST
WASHINGTON -- She is 52 years old, married, grew up in the Kansas City suburbs and now lives in Virginia, in a new three-bedroom house.
Anyone who can qualify for a subscription to one of the online services that compile public information also can learn that she is a CIA employee who, over the past decade, has been assigned to several American embassies in Europe.
The CIA asked the Tribune not to publish her name because she is a covert operative, and the newspaper agreed. But unbeknown to the CIA, her affiliation and those of hundreds of men and women like her have somehow become a matter of public record, thanks to the Internet.
When the Tribune searched a commercial online data service, the result was a virtual directory of more than 2,600 CIA employees, 50 internal agency telephone numbers and the locations of some two dozen secret CIA facilities around the United States.
Only recently has the CIA recognized that in the Internet age its traditional system of providing cover for clandestine employees working overseas is fraught with holes, a discovery that is said to have "horrified" CIA Director Porter Goss.
"Cover is a complex issue that is more complex in the Internet age," said the CIA's chief spokeswoman, Jennifer Dyck. "There are things that worked previously that no longer work. Director Goss is committed to modernizing the way the agency does cover in order to protect our officers who are doing dangerous work."
Dyck declined to detail the remedies "since we don't want the bad guys to know what we're fixing."
Several "front companies" set up to provide cover for CIA operatives and its small fleet of aircraft recently began disappearing from the Internet, following the Tribune's disclosures that some of the planes were used to transport suspected terrorists to countries where they claimed to have been tortured.
Although finding and repairing the vulnerabilities in the CIA's cover system was not a priority under Goss' predecessor, George Tenet, one senior U.S. official observed that "the Internet age didn't get here in 2004," the year Goss took over at the CIA.
CIA names not disclosed
The Tribune is not disclosing the identities of any of the CIA employees uncovered in its database searches, the searching techniques used or other details that might put agency employees or operatives at risk. The CIA apparently was unaware of the extent to which its employees were in the public domain until being provided with a partial list of names by the Tribune.'
At a minimum, the CIA's seeming inability to keep its own secrets invites questions about whether the Bush administration is doing enough to shield its covert CIA operations from public scrutiny, even as the Justice Department focuses resources on a two-year investigation into whether someone in the administration broke the law by disclosing to reporters the identity of clandestine CIA operative Valerie Plame.
Not all of the 2,653 employees whose names were produced by the Tribune search are supposed to be working under cover. More than 160 are intelligence analysts, an occupation that is not considered a covert position, and senior CIA executives such as Tenet are included on the list.
Covert employees discovered
But an undisclosed number of those on the list--the CIA would not say how many--are covert employees, and some are known to hold jobs that could make them terrorist targets.
Other potential targets include at least some of the two dozen CIA facilities uncovered by the Tribune search. Most are in northern Virginia, within a few miles of the agency's headquarters. Several are in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Utah and Washington state. There is one in Chicago.
Some are heavil
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Funny)
What is a "barnyard epithet" ?
That would be an epithet most commonly heard in a barnyard, like "Moo!" or perhaps "Bah!"
h4rm0ny, these would be more familiar to you as "m00" and "B44", as said by 1337 c0w5 and 5h33p.
It is important in understanding the CIA to recognize that they use barnyard epithets like "bah" where other professionals would be more open in their communications and just say "bullsh*t".
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Funny)
Er, I'm just asking for a friend.
^_^
Re:Nothing To See Here (Score:5, Funny)
Uhm... apparently, anyway >_>
Disinformation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Disinformation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Disinformation (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Disinformation (Score:3, Informative)
The main reason tha
Re:Disinformation (Score:4, Informative)
These aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the world either, mind you. My filmmaker and physicist friends certainly have them beat for smarts. These are average kids with good grades who went to reasonably big schools like GWU or Penn after high school and went into a federal internship as a B.S./B.A. level scholar at 20 or 21 years old.
They're just not tight packages of great judgment and discretion at that age and level of education, regardless of what the government would tell us and/or like to think. One of them in particular, who works at the Pentagon now, is about the biggest ditz/boof I've ever met, but is a great climber and perky enough to get promotions just on her smile.
The point: these agencies have to draw their people from the same population that shells out $10.00 to see Adam Sandler flicks and that things "Digital Rights Management" is there to protect their rights.
Re:Disinformation (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm, let's see here...
- WMDs in Iraq.
- 9/11.
- Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, still alive and at large.
- failure to anticipate India's test of nuclear weapons.
- failure to anticipate the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
Yes. Yes, they are just that stupid.
The organization probably employs some really bright people. The problem is that when the culture of a government organization goes bad, it goes really bad, because it's not accountable; they still get funded whether they succeed or fail. The only thing you are accountable for is breaking policy, so bureacracy and following the rules to the letter(never mind that the rules often make no sense and are counterproductive) become more important than actually doing anything. The best people- the ones who actually care about getting something done instead of sitting on their asses eight hours a day so they can one day collect a pension- get frustrated and leave. At any rate, that's my experience dealing with a messed-up government institution. Keep in mind, however, that the private sector isn't necessarily the solution. As Enron so brilliantly displays, corruption, arrogance and incompetence can flourish in private industry as well.
Re:Disinformation (Score:5, Insightful)
People seem to expect a world in which nothing bad ever happens, and when something does, rush to form government solutions that are worse than the problem. The best we can hope for is a world where bad stuff dies as quickly as possible. More government is almost never the right answer. (I'm not saying that's what you were suggesting, so don't take any of this personally.)
Re:Disinformation (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually that was a political decision. Read up on the subject, the general consensus is that CIA simply acted on outdated info (we know they HAD WMDs in the past) and the Bush administration took that as face value.
(which by the way, doesn't jive with recent reporting. Saddam bluffed to everyone (including, indirectly us) that he had WMD until 2002 when he finally admited to his officers that the didn't have anything they could use against the US. By that time the die was well cast by 9/11. As recently as 1999, he openly threated to use chemical weapons against the Shiites, and his forces were still taking pot shots at Coalition air forces protecting the Kurds.
The information was outdated and simply wrong, but we didn't have anyone in the core of Saddam's circle who could have told us that. That's the problem with dictatorships, it's much easier to hold secrets, much easier to bluff and threaten. There was a great article yesterday in the NYT about how Saddam's efforts to make sure that he didn't have any stockpiles by revisiting his old weapons labs sites, actually was interpreted by the CIA as Saddam going back to his stockpiles and destroying weapons (which is what would have happened if they actualyl found anything). Saddam does this to make sure there is not any real WMD, we see him returing to his weapons sites, put one and one together and rightly note that he never disclosed these sites in the first place.
I am not trying to whitewash the CIA here, but they clearly were reporting to the president that Mr. Hussein was up to his old tricks. Bush was getting attacked at the time by democrats who believed that he should have magically detected the 9/11 plot. Now his CIA agency is telling him that Hussein is stockpiling weapons, sponsering terrorists (including a assasination attempt on his own father). What do you think he is going to do under thoose circumstances?
Re:Disinformation (Score:4, Interesting)
In fact - unqualified.
They did not perform any attempt to cover their mobile usage and had no clue whatsoever about the level of precision mobile location records from GSM can yield in a high density urban environment. Italians love to talk so the GSM coverage in their cities is one of the densest in Europe.
All the judge had to do is subpoena the Italian GSM operators.
Red Herrings (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Red Herrings (Score:3, Funny)
Just a minute - there's a knocking on the door I have to answer...
Boy, are they in trouble.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Boy, are they in trouble.... (Score:3, Insightful)
"the locations of over two dozen CIA facilities" (Score:3, Interesting)
KFG
Re:"the locations of over two dozen CIA facilities (Score:5, Insightful)
(Damn, I just broke Godwin's law...)
Re:"the locations of over two dozen CIA facilities (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"the locations of over two dozen CIA facilities (Score:5, Informative)
There was also a secret police not allied with the Gestapo, because the watchers needed to be afraid of someone as well. These were completely secret police who answered only to Hitler and/or Goering.
Yes, the Gestapo also had a public facing branch, if only because in order to rat out your neighbor you needed someplace to go to do it.
Perhaps the CIA, rather than being remiss in their duties for having a publicly accessable branch, actually have some clue as to what they are doing by having offices and phones that the general public are perfectly aware of.
And, of course, in America, the people watching the watchers are supposed to be "The People."
KFG
Covert Agency? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Covert Agency? (Score:3, Insightful)
The CIA trained Arabs to be terrorists. (Score:4, Interesting)
That depends on the definition of "right". CIA employees get more money and promotions if there is more trouble in the world. So, they make trouble. For example, the CIA trained Osama bin Laden and other Arabs in the techniques of terrorism. [futurepower.org]
U.S. citizens should not expect that ANY U.S. government secret agency actually does what it is supposed to do. The secrecy allows the purpose to drift off course, until it is the employees who determine what happens, not the policy makers.
Government leaders, such as U.S. congressmen and women, are allowed to know only the public relations information about the secret agencies, not what is really happening. In the name of secrecy and covert operation, the secret U.S. government agencies are allowed to lie. They place lies in newspapers and magazines the same way other P.R. is placed.
A government that sometimes acts in secret cannot be said to be a democratic government, because the citizens cannot supervise what they don't know.
--
Before, Saddam got Iraq oil profits & paid part to kill Iraqis. Now a few Americans share Iraq oil profits, & U.S. citizens pay to kill Iraqis. Improvement?
Re:The CIA trained Arabs to be terrorists. (Score:3, Insightful)
Three excuses. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Of interest to who?
Those who forgot that FOX persecuted its own journalists for trying to expose Monsanto's BGH artificial hormone scam? That Fox fought aga
My perverse need... (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow. Holy Fucking Shit. They've gone off the deep end more than I suspected.
The few minutes my stomach could stand to watch before being forced to regurgitate my wonderful Ne
Re:The CIA trained Arabs to be terrorists. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that they guy we ended up supporting (because the pakastani's supported him) was that much better, but please remember that Bin Ladin was first and foremost a financer during the Afgani conflict... He was there because he had jihad money in the first place.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled group-think
How do they know it's reliable info? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this "story" itself planted by the CIA? (not that we'd care either way)
2600 [2600.com]? Funny number there.
Following the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Whatever the Chicago Tribune has uncovered, one might presume that they were expected to.
Equal opportunities employer (Score:3, Funny)
And even after all that they can probably sue for unfair dismissal.
Thoughts and feelings (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe the CIA could get a blanket, some hot chocolate, and sit down with the DOJ to share their thoughts and feelings about this invasion of their privacy. Perhaps then the DOJ might stop trying to demand search data from Google.
Give him time (Score:5, Interesting)
The following article explains some of the issues behind the Tribune article
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/26366 [tpmcafe.com]
The agency is
I have no doubt Goss is horrified. He just took over the CIA, and what GS manager would enjoy an outsider showing him a clear look at his department? And Goss hasn't had a chance ot fix things yet. THat is, if that's his goal...with the CIA, who knows?
By the way, didn't Goss inherit an agency that was once run by George Bush? It would explain a lot.
The CIA has other problems as well. The worse is that it facing some competition from private firms like StratFor(sorta like the US Post Office and Federal Express). It can't be much fun to be a world famous secret agency and having to explain to the Intelligence committee why you are being scooped by some small company in Austin,
For those of you who haven't heard of it, StratFor (http://www.stratfor.com/ [stratfor.com]) is a private intelligence firm, with several hundred thousand customers, that is the CIA for multinationals and private individuals. It is considered somewhat more accurate than the CIA. http://seekerblog.com/archives/20050313/is-stratf
Hmm.. if the CIA is getting rid of people, that means they are hiring. I would like to apply as an intelligence analyst, or maybe an In Tel Q VC... (There is a rumor the easiest way to apply for a job with the CIA is write in on your computer and wait for ADVISE to pick it up. http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0209/p01s02-uspo.ht
Re:Give him time (Score:3, Interesting)
In Other News... (Score:5, Funny)
... The Tribune has suddenly vanished without a trace. The offices are scrubbed clean, the files are empty, and there's a For Lease sign up by the building management company.
... Hundreds of families across Illinois have filed new missing persons reports this month, a drastic rise from the usual numbers. Oddly, a high percentage of the newly missing persons seem to have worked for the Chicago Tribune.
what the CIA really doesn't want you to know (Score:3, Insightful)
You know what this means don't you?.... (Score:3, Insightful)
whether or not the story is true, it is in fact presenting the public with this idea that the freedom of research and press are dangerious to the government that is suppose to be protecting these rights.
There seems to be another story on slashdot at the moment along this same line.
Next thing you know we won't be allowed to talk to our neighbors without government approval.
When are enough people going to wake up and realize 9/11 was a direct result of US wrongful manipulation of world economy.
Do a search on "Trillion dollar bet" Read the transcript and realize that much money doesn't just appear or vanish into nowhere.
CIA employee information????? Huh? What?
Don't do others wrong and you won't have reason to be parionoid of retaliation.
Curious about the CIA? Read these books! (Score:3, Interesting)
Dark Alliance
Gold Warriors
Inside the Company: CIA Diary
Thy Will Be Done, The Conquest of the Amazon
The Mafia, CIA, and George Bush
The Outlaw Bank
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK
Plausible Denial
Cocaine Politics
The Politics of Heroin
The Iran-Contra Connection
Crossing the Rubicon
The Haunting of America
Secret Agenda
Killing Hope
JFK by Fletcher Prouty
The Secret Team by Fletcher Prouty
Confessions of an Economic Hitman
The Third Option by Ted Shackley
Powderburns, Cocaine, Contras and the Drug War
The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy by Turner and Christian
The article is somewhat misleading... (Score:5, Insightful)
- The CIA is a BIG organization - it needs support personnel, etc. and they are not likely to ALL be undercover. Maintaining cover on accountants and receptionists would certainly be a big waste of resources.
- Most CIA positions are not undercover, including most analysts
The article admits a lot of this halfway down: "Not all of the 2,653 employees whose names were produced by the Tribune search are supposed to be working under cover. More than 160 are intelligence analysts, an occupation that is not considered a covert position, and senior CIA executives such as Tenet are included on the list."
So, in other words, the Tribune puts up a big number that is supposed to be shocking and then, after most people stop reading, admits it's not really that big a deal. The article does state, however:
"But an undisclosed number of those on the list--the CIA would not say how many--are covert employees, and some are known to hold jobs that could make them terrorist targets."
There must be at least one - given the example at the top of the article - but no one says how many. The discovery that 26 people are working at Camp Peary (AKA - "The Farm" of "The Recruit" fame) is equally unimpressive, as SOMEONE must work there for support staff, and the 26 individuals discovered are likely to be support staff, not trainers. The 17 aircraft aren't particularly interesting, either, as the CIA likely operates many aircraft openly. Big organizations like the CIA cannot maintain cover on EVERYTHING, nor do they try to, as this report implies
I'm of the opinion that this article boils down to the following:
- The Chicago Tribune tooting its own horn
- A cheap jab at Bush, which seems to represent "objective" journalism these days
- Sensationalist journalism - they put up big numbers, but those numbers are unlikely to actually mean anything
Many have jokingly said, "move along, nothing to see here". To be honest, I think those statements are accurate.
German intelligence not much better (Score:5, Interesting)
- Both agents were doing everything but keeping a low profile in the days before the evacuation of the German Embassy in Iraq. Apparently they had no problems mingling with the press.
- Both had websites with pictures of their current postings. For example, one guy showed himself with his family at his new post in Australia.
- Their websites had guestbooks. Other agents left "well concealed" messages on there. For example, one post ended with "greetings from Pullach". The CIA equivalent of that would be "greetings from Langley".
Pretty bad...Google "is" The Company a.k.a. the CIA (Score:4, Funny)
There are other connections between Google and the Intelligence community. Like this job ad [google-watch.org] and this [google-watch.org].
Got to go, the black helicopters are circling. Remember, trust no one.
Re:What a waste (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What a waste (Score:3, Informative)
Even if Valerie Plame turns out just to have been a McDonald's cashier all along, Scooter has to deal with the fact that he lied to the grand jury.
Re:Consolidate funding sources for intelligence (Score:5, Insightful)
And what about the US MURDERING somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 Iraqis, on the basis of no WMDs?
Now, unless you think that we've spent tens of billions of dollars on what, three? four? five? (CIA, FBI, NSA, Army intel, Pentagon Intel, etc) agencies completely staffed by clones of Maxwell Smart, the only intelligence failure, either through ideological blinders or deliberately for ideological reasons, is the administration and the GOP.
And the fools who voted for them.
mark
Re:Consolidate funding sources for intelligence (Score:5, Informative)
And people are surprised that there's supposedly secret information publicly available?
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)