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Broadband Service as P2P Distro Experiment

Posted by Zonk on Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:09 PM
from the you-learn-something-new-everyday dept.
Software Privacy Security The Internet
Not another doctor wrote to mention a PC Doctor article about the Sky by Broadband service. In addition to providing access to the internet, the service also helpfully downloads and installs the Kontiki P2P service. From the article: "What this really means is that Sky in all their advertising are making out that you are downloading content directly from them rather than other users. Also, the P2P link continues to run in the background after you've shut down the main application, eating up bandwidth by allowing others to download the files from your PC. Kontiki also collects and sends back to Sky a lot of information about your PC. There is no mention as to how this data is protected from unauthorized access, however, initial examination with Ethereal seems to show that all data is at least encrypted during transmission."

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[+] Delving into the Commercial P2P World 45 comments
Anonymous Coward writes "PBS has an interesting look at the emerging commercialized P2P networks brought to light by Cringely. With the news of Sky's default bundling of commercial P2P applications in its broadband software, many users seemed to be against the idea of getting nothing from providing Sky with their upstream bandwidth for free. Meanwhile, PeerImpact, seems to be rewarding users for their P2P system through PeerCash, and GridNetworks is building an system called PeerReward."
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  • ...we're INTENTIONALLY creating Sky-net.

    Just want to make sure I'm understanding this right. Don't mind me, I'm going to go hide in the Vet office.
  • From the website that is linked to from the article: "There is, however, a darker side to the Sky by Broadband - it installs onto your system a P2P (Peer-to-Peer) application called Kontiki. The purpose of this is to allow others to access the movie data that lives on your PC. This means that they entire Sky by Broadband system is a big P2P experiment and everyone wanting in on Sky by Broadband has to take part."

    From the PC Doctor: What this really means is that Sky in all their advertising are making out that you are downloading content directly from them rather than other users.

    Sky is being very honest about this despite what the PC Doctor says. I think it's very clear from the website that you are downloading the the movies peer to peer. What ELSE could they say to spell it out? I don't get it.

  • Spam (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ZachPruckowski (918562) <zachary.pruckowski@gmail.com> on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:24PM (#14806424)
    Submitter was created for the sole purpose of commenting on this article. His link leads back to the PC Doctor website, which I don't think most of us have heard of. It sells tech books and support.

    On topic, this is pretty serious if true. We really do need a P2P content distribution system, but having it on the sly doesn't really work. I'd like a system whereby it's cheaper if you agree to seed for a bit voluntarily.
    • Re:Spam by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday February 26 2006, @11:37PM
    • Re:Spam by redthefed (Score:2) Sunday February 26 2006, @11:49PM
    • No, he says you are wrong by A nonymous Coward (Score:3) Monday February 27 2006, @01:13AM

    • p2pclient.txt (Score:4, Insightful)

      by chub_mackerel (911522) on Monday February 27 2006, @06:05AM (#14807251)

      Gee, never saw this [slashdot.org] coming, did we?

      Anyway, content owners want the benefits of P2P without the risks. The MACHINE is OURS, however, so we can play hardball right back at them with a firm ethical foundation to stand on. We can fight back with the same methods:

      We need something like a P2P "robots.txt" file that is somehow accessible to outside entities, containing the conditions under which our machines can become part of any content distribution system. It could implement (through standard settings) a license under which your machine can be used for such purposes by a third party.

      Example: using such a file, I should be able to rig up my machine so that it advertises the fact that any content distributed on the machine must be public domain, open source, in uncrippled formats, etc. Distribution of any other content on such a system would constructively create a license to use that content in specified ways.

      In other words, if you stream your content (even in part) through MY machine, then you're giving me the rights to distribute, copy, modify, reverse engineer, etc., that content. If you're not happy with that, don't distribute using my machine.

      Putting this in a technical setting like a metatag or *.txt file makes it possible for any distribution software to check the setting. So when they argue that you "clicked the EULA" you can argue right back that the software "agreed to the terms of distribution on my machine." Then they get to argue that it's harder for software to employ a clear and standard permission check than it is for an average person to read and understand a crafty EULA that hides away the fact that you're becoming a peer in the distribution network.

      I don't know if my explanation was clear but I think it's a good idea.

      [ Parent ]

  • Mod Story -1: Troll (Score:5, Informative)

    by OverlordQ (264228) on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:33PM (#14806447)
    (Last Journal: Thursday February 15 2007, @08:00PM)
    Just a troll article looking for pageviews, from the fraking SKy by broadband page:

    How does Sky use Kontiki's secure peer-to-peer technology to deliver videos to my PC?

    Sky by broadband displays the video content available for you to download. Kontiki offers the underlying peer-to-peer technology which delivers the videos you choose in a secure, efficient manner, enabling very large, high-resolution videos to be delivered to your computer.

    Specifically, the Kontiki technology determines how to download the video you selected by searching for sources of that video on locations which may include Sky's own network, or other users of Sky's Kontiki network or "grid". If the video can be delivered to you more quickly and efficiently from another computer, that's exactly what Kontiki will do! Conversely, your computer is also part of Sky's Kontiki grid, so your computer might be used as a source location for transferring a video to another Sky user.

    Pretty much says it's doing what TFA is bitching about them not saying.

  • Kontiki is used by Gamespot (Score:2)

    by Wizarth (785742) on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:38PM (#14806458)
    (http://wizarth.is-a-geek.org/)
    Kontiki is what Gamespot uses as an alternate way of accessing their content, I believe. They may not use it anymore though, it's been a little while.

  • Common carriers (Score:2)

    by murderlegendre (776042) on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:44PM (#14806473)

    How much public data does a user need to receive & transmit before that user is accorded common carrier status, and the attached protections? A fast broadband connection can pass as much inforamtion as a small telephone exchange.

    So what if your little enterprise collects no revenue, nor puts any conditions on its 'subscribers'?

  • skype (Score:1)

    by nfarrell (127850) on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:57PM (#14806511)
    Sounds similar to Skype. If your firewall allows incoming connections you act as a relay for those who don't. Combine this with a dodgy ISP which charges you for your uploads (http://bigpond.com.au/ [bigpond.com.au]) and newbies are in a world of pain.

    Applications like this would be great if they were opt-in: if you had to say how much upload bandwidth you were willing the application to use, fine.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Anybody read Cringley? (Score:1)

    by baomike (143457) on Monday February 27 2006, @12:32AM (#14806574)
    This kinda seems to be what he was talking about.

  • Has Sky broken the law? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BrianUofR (143023) on Monday February 27 2006, @12:58AM (#14806629)
    Sky is smart for using a P2P architecture, a cool solution to an engineering problem. I have serious concerns about the partial uninstallation issue though.

    Was the broken uninstaller a mistake or a "feature"? They have something to gain from using your computer as a P2P host. If, say, an investigation produced emails showing it was in the design spec, has a fraud been comitted? Deceiving someone to profit at their expense (resources--bandwith, CPU, etc) sounds like fraud. Have they broken the law?

    Can anyone familiar with UK law comment?

  • Im sticking with Comcast, its annoying, not fatal (Score:1, Funny)

    by 228e2 (934443) on Monday February 27 2006, @01:19AM (#14806664)
    From the site's Term and Conditions [sky.com]
    5.4We will be liable for any fraudulent misrepresentations We make and for any death or personal injury caused by Our negligence. We will not be responsible or liable to You for any other loss or damage that You or any third party may suffer as a result of using or in connection with Your use of the Sky Site.
    Honey, put the Emergency room on call! Im about to surf the web!

  • Oh for Gods Sake... (Score:2)

    by nickgrieve (87668) on Monday February 27 2006, @01:35AM (#14806675)
    (Last Journal: Sunday September 12 2004, @10:55PM)
    Also, the P2P link continues to run in the background after you've shut down the main application, eating up bandwidth by allowing others to download the files from your PC.

    Then kill it by other means, or pull the plug, or somthing... If you know what this all means your quite capable of finding a work around, if not, then, well, you know, ignorance is bliss.

  • Summary is wrong, as usual (Score:2)

    by Tim C (15259) on Monday February 27 2006, @03:37AM (#14806912)
    In addition to providing access to the internet

    If you were to bother to read the requirements page [sky.com], you'll see that one of the requirements is "A broadband internet connection of at least 512KB (1MB is recommended)".

    This service does not provide connectivity, that's a separate requirement. Also, I don't know quite why PC Doctor is getting so upset about this. I briefly checked out the Sky by Broadband info a week or two ago, and from a few minutes clicking around the linked site it was perfectly plain to me that it involved installing the Kontiki P2P app. Ok, they may not shout it from the front page, but they're not exactly hiding the fact, either.

    On top of that, the service is free to existing qualifying customers. It's not like you're paying to have the eevil Sky corporation steal your bandwidth...

  • Same as the BBC (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 27 2006, @04:08AM (#14806989)
    I applied for the BBC's online show trial and after reading the terms and conditions i abandoned it because it infact uses the same kontiki p2p service as sky apparently are. I emailed the bbc help address regarding this and was told if you dont like it you can turn your pc off...

  • Oxy-oxy-moronic (Score:2)

    by tod_miller (792541) on Monday February 27 2006, @04:55AM (#14807109)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday January 26 2005, @05:18AM)
    "Kontiki also collects and sends back to Sky a lot of information about your PC. There is no mention as to how this data is protected from unauthorized access, however, initial examination with Ethereal seems to show that all data is at least encrypted during transmission."

    So they know the encrypted data is sending back information about your computer. And they also don't know that the data is encrypted, because there is no mention as to how the data is protected from unauthorized access.

    Erm. *tightens tin foil hat*. End of world, cats and dogs, soviet russia, O RLY.

    please type the word in this image: biopsies random letters - if you are visually impaired, please email us at pater@slashdot.org

  • The problem is the software (Score:5, Informative)

    by gataylor (609192) on Monday February 27 2006, @05:00AM (#14807121)
    Whether you agree that specifying the P2P nature in the Terms and Conditions is enough, the Kontiki P2P software is hard to uninstall.

    Uninstalling Sky By Broadband does NOT uninstall the Kontiki peer to peer. So, anyone who tries Sky By Broadband, doesn't like it, and uninstalls it, is still participating in the P2P network - and most likely doing so without their knowledge. I bet they're all wondering why teh internets have gone all slow...

    I wrote some uninstall instructions on my blog last month for the Sky By Broadband Kontiki P2P server:
    http://www.opinionatedgeek.com/Blog/blogentry=0017 5/Blog.aspx [opinionatedgeek.com]

    And here's another set of uninstall instructions:
    http://www.nanagram.co.uk/sky.htm [nanagram.co.uk]

    The big question in my mind is whether it is incompetence that makes the software hard to uninstall, or is it a deliberate attempt to grow their network.

  • Unintentional supernodes? (Score:2)

    by Jivha (842251) on Monday February 27 2006, @05:23AM (#14807173)
    So here's a really implausible thought:

    All Sky has to do is find one sucker each on a high-speed connection to download each movie they have on offer. After that they turn those computers into supernodes and sit back and watch while the movies are copied from user machines everywhere. A small notification is sent to them with each download that allows for billing/payments.

    Of course that was really implausible. I'm sure media companies would never sink that low!

  • ah excellent... (Score:1)

    by wetelectric (956671) on Monday February 27 2006, @05:26AM (#14807179)
    "Kontiki also collects and sends back to Sky a lot of information about your PC. There is no mention as to how this data is protected from unauthorized access, however, initial examination with Ethereal seems to show that all data is at least encrypted during transmission." ..its nice to know my information is being stolen from me safely.

  • Sky Has Suckered All Its Subscribers Anyway... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pandrijeczko (588093) on Monday February 27 2006, @05:59AM (#14807243)
    Sorry, call me old fashioned but I thought the idea was you paid for your TV service and got no advertisements OR you got free TV service with adverts every 10 minutes. All credit to Sky's marketing in that they seem to have combined the two into one great big ripoff.

    Kontiki is Sky realising they've got away with one ripoff and are now embarking on a second to leech even more money from their customers - no different than just about every other big corporation that we the cattle masses have allowed to get too big for it's own damn good.

    Wake up and smell the coffee people! If you don't like how a corporation is screwing you then don't buy their products, it really is THAT SIMPLE. The more people that do that, the more they have to take notice and stop treating their customers like mindless cattle.

    And as for Sky, don't bother with them. Wait a year or two and all those nice TV programs you want to see get released in a handy DVD box set that you can probably buy for less than a month's subscription to Sky anyway.

  • can't they make up a new and original name?

  • Re:If it's too good to be true... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by macadamia_harold (947445) on Sunday February 26 2006, @11:34PM (#14806449)
    (http://www.google.com/)
    So you've decided to legally download movies... If you play with fire, you're bound to get burnt. Whether it's Sky's Kontiki client or some other P2P app, you're always running the risk of sucking up bandwidth with background services. And so what if you are? The maximum throughput is only slightly decreased and you get a bunch of extra features. Isn't that worth the tradeoff?

    Fixed that for you.

    [ Parent ]
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