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MPAA Files Lawsuits Targeting Major Torrent Sites

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Feb 24, 2006 03:40 AM
from the not-so-fast dept.
The Courts Movies The Internet
diverge_s writes "Slyck news reports on a new wave of lawsuits the MPAA has filed against major Bit Torrent search sites including: Torrentspy, Isohunt, Torrentbox, Niteshadow and Bthub. From the article: '"Website operators who abuse technology to facilitate infringements of copyrighted works by millions of people are not anonymous - they can and will be stopped," said John G. Malcolm, Executive Vice President and Director of Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations for the MPAA. "Disabling these powerful networks of illegal file distribution is a significant step in stemming the tide of piracy on the Internet."'"

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[+] Cringely on P2P vs Streaming Data Centers 179 comments
Anonymous Coward writes "Robert X Cringely is postulating today that as bandwidth applications grow, the data centers will never be ready to serve 30 million concurrent streams of data. Akamai, with its tens of thousands of servers spread in an intelligent topology, still can't serve more than 150,000 concurrent streams, which is never going to impress the TV network exec used to audiences in the millions. Cringely choruses that secure P2P is the solution to delivering not only high quality video but also to audiences that scale in the millions. BitTorrent seems to have worn out it's welcome with the MPAA recently, so maybe the future holds P2P networks owned and managed by Hollywood?"
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  • But noone told the sites be sued? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sandstorming (850026) <johnsee@sandst[ ]ing.com ['orm' in gap]> on Friday February 24 2006, @03:44AM (#14791176)
    From the article: The operators of these indexing sites appear surprised at the MPAA's decision to sue, as they have yet to receive any notification. "Funny, they didn't email me," Gary from ISOHunt said. "I'm not too concerned because we deal with copyright requests everyday, some of them from studios MPAA represents." "Justin" from TorrentSpy echoed Gary's skepticism. "I guess I will learn more when I see what they have filed exactly. [I'm] not sure why they are suing when we comply with DMCA requests but I guess we will learn more down the road."

  • FYI (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kawahee (901497) on Friday February 24 2006, @03:44AM (#14791178) Homepage Journal
    A quick glance at TorrentSpy [torrentspy.com] shows that they haven't given up, they're still dishing out torrents. They have a news story about it, but they don't seem to be too concerned.

    I remember when the MPAA did this last time and the torrent sites shut down completely because it was in their subpoena (sp?) thing, so does this mean that TorrentSpy is defying the MPAA and (potentially) putting themselves up for harsher penalties?

    • Re:FYI (Score:4, Informative)

      by Kjella (173770) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:09AM (#14791235) Homepage
      I remember when the MPAA did this last time and the torrent sites shut down completely because it was in their subpoena (sp?) thing, so does this mean that TorrentSpy is defying the MPAA and (potentially) putting themselves up for harsher penalties?

      Well, from the interview it seems they haven't recieved anything from the court, only been informed that a lawsuit has been filed. Once they do get a court order (I believe subpoenas are only request for information), and have something like 24-72 hours to comply (I don't remember exactly), we'll see if they're going to stick to their guns.
      [ Parent ]

  • searching is not illegal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mrshowtime (562809) on Friday February 24 2006, @03:44AM (#14791180)
    Search engines are not illegal in the USA. You can use a search engine to search for anything. You can use a search engine to find a prostitute or drugs and other forms of illegal "entertainment" so why does copyright infringement the ipso-facto crime of the century? There are a lot of illegal bitorrent files and there are a lot of legal files. I hope someone challenges the MPAA on this.

    • Re:searching is not illegal (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Kjella (173770)
      Search engines are not illegal in the USA.

      Trust me, you would not want to be an "Information Location Tool" which include "a directory, index, reference, pointer, or hypertext link" without complying with 512 d) of US copyright law. It might not be illegal

      • Re:Same tired old argument (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Mr2001 (90979)
        As illustrated in the above example, having some legitimate uses is not enough to avoid a ban, nor is having some illegitimate uses enough to justify one. Instead, we must weigh the legitimate and illegitimate uses against one another.

        Of course, we must al

        • A BitTorrent site, on the other hand, merely has the potential to give thousands or millions of people access to free movies, music, TV shows, software, and porn, and the only threat it poses is to the business models that are founded on restricting free

          • ...stop paying for production of the content that goes to make up the main core of all these torrent sites, what will the sites offer?

            After that happen, you'd be surprised how much of artists you liked are in fact are indies and has no relation to the RI

            • Re:Same tired old argument (Score:5, Insightful)

              by Casualposter (572489) on Friday February 24 2006, @08:26AM (#14791976) Journal
              Does it occur to anyone that by restricting the torrent sites and trying to destroy file sharing and music sharing that the real target of this is not piracy, but an attempt to destroy the growing ability of independent artists to make a name for themselves without the big labels? It looks to me like piracy is not the issue, but rather market dominance. Once the MPAA, RIAA have destroyed this upstart internet thing, they will then embrace the technology to distribute the content that they want on the terms that they want. Think about pay per view for EVERYTHING.
              [ Parent ]
              • Who would have produced that 'culture' if they hadnt payed for it? Would it have simply appeared?

                Once upon a time, before the copyright cartels came to dominate, such work was created on a comission basis. There is no intrinsic reason that we can't go bac

      • And the same old tired misnomers. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Rocketship Underpant (804162) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:51AM (#14791366)
        "most BT traffic is illegitimate"

        Not all people consider sharing of information and media to be "illegitimate". The idea that culture can be controlled and bottled up by powerful media companies is a quaint 20th century notion.

        You are quite correct in questioning the effect of any ban. Bit-torrent networks and other types of filesharing are rooted in basic human behaviour and desires. That's not going to change any time soon.
        [ Parent ]

      • Re:Same tired old argument (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Haeleth (414428) <{haeleth} {at} {haeleth.net}> on Friday February 24 2006, @05:50AM (#14791518) Homepage
        BitTorrent and the like score quite badly on the first two points - most BT traffic is illegitimate, and there are plenty of legal ways to distribute files.

        Are you serious?! BitTorrent is frequently used for distributing large, legitimate files - in fact, I use it on a weekly basis, and I do not infringe copyright with it. BitTorrent is now the standard way of distributing many files that it is legal to distribute, from Linux distributions through to demos of commercial games, and banning it would therefore affect a huge range of legitimate activities.

        Sorry, but while there ARE systems it would make sense to ban, based on your argument - such as other P2P systems like Kazaa and ED2K - I'm afraid BitTorrent is actually the one example of a P2P system that has been embraced by legitimate users and is widely used for legal purposes. It is the one P2P system that it would be MOST stupid to ban.

        Incidentally, you win today's prize for the most careless use of language. "There are plenty of legal ways to distribute files", you said. There sure are - and BitTorrent is one of them.

        By the way, if you think bananas are normally used for peaceful purposes, you can't have watched many cartoons. A banana skin is a very common weapon. :P
        [ Parent ]

      • Here's the real trick (Score:3, Insightful)

        by StringBlade (557322)
        How does one tell a "legitimate" BitTorrent tracker from an "illegitimate" tracker? Does someone go through the tracker and calculate the ratio of copyrighted material to free/copylefted material?

        Since a BT tracker is simply a search engine, are you sugge

        • Re:searching is not illegal (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Shihar (153932)
          I think there is a reson to believe that more guns are used in robberies, murders and other unlawful cases compared to the gun usage for self-defense and shooting practice. Guns have legitimate uses, but most times they are used, the use is illegal. See a

  • Gracias (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2006, @03:45AM (#14791182)
    Thank you MPAA, I didn't know about a couple of those!

  • There is some more info here... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2006, @03:47AM (#14791186)
    1. Boing Boing [boingboing.net]
    2. Slyck Forums [slyck.com]
    3. Another blogger with some good quotes [hishamrana.com]
    4. Normality Net with more info [normalitynet.com]
    5. Amit's Page with even more commentary [blogspot.com]

    Drive by linkings!

  • new addition to pirate bay legal threats page ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 'Tractor' Barry (788340) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:01AM (#14791215) Homepage
    Ho ho ho. So can I look forward to an addition to the a href="http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php">Pirate Bays legal threats page ?.

    P2P, torrents etc. are simply like having the best radio station and film channel in the world. It lets me try out stuff without spending my hard earned cash (an ever decreasing amount of which I have to spend on "non essentials" such as entertainment) so I know that I like something before I buy it.

    Oh how the *AA dinosaurs futiley roared as the small furry mamalls took over their world :)

      • Yes. "Try before you buy" is such a horrible concept. I hope they get those pesky CD players out of the music stores soon. Personally I blame the music stores for bringing this absolutely irrefutable need for DRM.

        Here's a hint: DRM only hastles legitem

          • I'm tired of people proudly justifying morally bankrupt actions based on wordplay.

            And I'm tired of people assuming that the only possible reason anyone might want to insist on using precise terminology is in the mistaken belief that this might justify morally bankrupt actions.

            Where in the post you replied to did it say "it's okay because it's not stealing"?

            Where in the post you replied to did it say "copyright infringement is not wrong"?

            Nowhere.

            Why are you incapable of understanding that people might view copyright infringement as morally wrong, and yet still desire people to use the correct name for it, instead of calling it stealing, which it isn't? Why are you incapable of understanding that there is a reason why we have different laws on different subjects, with different penalties for different crimes?

            Copyright infringement and theft are both illegal, but they are illegal under different laws, are judged on different criteria, and are punished in different ways. They affect the victim in different ways and harm the economy in different ways. They are no more the same thing than rape and murder are the same thing.

            That is why you should use different names for them. Not because one is any less illegal than the other. Not because one is any more moral than the other. Merely because while both are wrong and both are illegal, they are nevertheless not the same thing.
            [ Parent ]

  • They're going after NZB sites too (Score:3, Interesting)

    by grubbymitts (903312) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:05AM (#14791228)
    NZB-Zone has been targetted along with binnews and a couple of others. It is interesting to note that they have only gone for nzb sites and not the actual usenet providers - they appear to have the same rights as ISPs when it comes to common carrier status, but I'm no lawyer.

    • Re:They're going after NZB sites too (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Friday February 24 2006, @06:15AM (#14791577) Homepage
      The common carrier idea has never really flown that well in the ISP world. The real safe harbor here is the 512 exception, and it more or less treats search engines and providers of material placed there by users the same. Of course, it also requires that the ISPs in question take affirmative steps to be protected, and that they honor takedown requests by copyright holders.

      The actual reason for suing them is probably because there are fewer NZB sites than there are news providers, and it's strategically best to go for the head of the snake. If you go after a search site, you impair all their users on many different news providers (and may be able to identify a lot of them too). If you go after a news provider, you impair their users (etc.), but not any from other providers. If you go after uploaders, you impair all their downloaders. If you go after downloaders, you only get them. So start at the head of the snake, and you'll get the most bang for your buck.
      [ Parent ]

  • Freedom for the Culture! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rvalles (649635) <rvalles@es . g n u . o rg> on Friday February 24 2006, @04:09AM (#14791236)
    Millions of people, they say. Maybe it's time to start listening to the will of those millions instead of listening to just a few industry-paid lobbysts.

    Freedom [wikipedia.org] for [gnu.org] the [ucla.edu] Culture [wikipedia.org]!!!

    • Re:Freedom for the Culture! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jb.hl.com (782137) <joe AT joe-baldwin DOT net> on Friday February 24 2006, @06:24AM (#14791604) Homepage Journal
      TorrentSpy etc and the people who use them don't give two shits about "free culture" or "info anarchism" or other terms which sound much nicer than "leeching albums from the Internet". TorrentSpy links to torrents, which 99.9% of the time are for copyrighted works. That's it. Nothing to do with lofty ideals or going against The Man (unless going against The Man gets you free shit).

      Same goes for those "millions" who you talk of the will of. They probably couldn't give a flying fuck, so long as they can get the latest Hollywood shitfest for free.

      Oh, btw, it's cute that you linked to the FSF homepage right after a link to a page on "anti-copyright". Especially when the GPL would fall over without copyright laws in place.
      [ Parent ]

  • Absurd (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kumachan1983 (956909) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:18AM (#14791269)
    I had to make an account just to respond to this. Im a long time reader so it was about time anyway. Listen this is just history repeating itself. We saw it First with Napster and music. Then Kazaa came up and all of its clones. Then they attacked the few major torrent sites in existance with lawsuits. What happened everytime? Pirating evolved, its like the MPAA and other such organizations serve as nature in the darwinism that is file sharing. Every time they strike down one site or technology it just evolves and gets better. I remember the days before bittorrent and how much of a pain it could be to find a specific file, now because they have forced us to we have a much more efficiant and anonomous system to distribute illegal software. I say bring them on because I'm excited to see what new and improved ways will come forward to share files. Not to mention the fact that if they quit trying to stop it (amplifying the problem) and started trying to profit off of it they would be doing much better. Look at the advertising oppertunities....

  • Oh noze, teh cops! (Score:3)

    by Groo Wanderer (180806) <charlie@stonearcTOKYOh.net minus city> on Friday February 24 2006, @04:28AM (#14791304)
    Hmmm, lets see. The math says that there are several dozen solid BT sites out there, and 7 have been threatened. If they all go away today, there are only a few dozen left to choose from, and there are 20 or so added a week.

    Yup, this will show those little shits, they'll have to run to #8 on thier bookmark list now. Ha, take that.

    YAWN. Stupid MPAA, no cookie. You are making the same mistake the US military is, fighting the wrong war, and losing both because of it.

                -Charlie

  • Thanks, didn't know half of these (Score:5, Funny)

    by Werrismys (764601) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:29AM (#14791306)
    slashdot is educational.

  • Up-side-down People! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by suv4x4 (956391) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:41AM (#14791335)
    Most companies try the best to look great to their customers, to appeal to young people. Microsoft is spending billions to make itself look smaller and more open.

    MPAA and RIAA are spending billions to make headlines such as "MPAA sues grandpa without computer", "RIAA sues 13-year old girl for sharing mp3", "DRM technology in audio CD-s installs without a warning and opens your PC-s to hackers", "don't use the uninstaller, it leaves your PC even MORE open to hackers", "MPAA and RIAA join together to sue Earth and be done with it".

    If I could separate myself from this twisted reality we live in, where this is supposed strategy to drive up sales, I'd say they are doing everything possible to make people hate them.

    • Re:Up-side-down People! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by LordLucless (582312) on Friday February 24 2006, @08:43AM (#14792053)
      It's one advantage to being a cartel^H^H^H^H^H^H assosciation. It's always "the RIAA" or "the MPAA" doing the suing. The individual companies aren't being assosciated with the bad publicity. If you started seeing "Sony sues grandpa without computer" or "Vivendi sues 13 year old girl", then you might start getting some reaction to the bad press. As it is, the MPAA is sort of like a meta-corporation. Corporations exist to limit the risk to individuals involved in the corporation. The MPAA exists to limit the risk to the companies involved in it.
      [ Parent ]

  • The Pirate Bay loves these guys (Score:4, Informative)

    by feyhunde (700477) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:43AM (#14791341)
    Go read http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php [thepiratebay.org]

    Most of these sites aren't hosted in the US, or in countries that recognize torrents as being pirated material.

  • Please do! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Per Wigren (5315) on Friday February 24 2006, @05:01AM (#14791395) Homepage
    Please help boosting the development of the anonymous networks... Because that's what's going to happen if you keep on doing this.

  • You have stolen enough (Score:5, Funny)

    by tcornelissen (897694) on Friday February 24 2006, @05:08AM (#14791416) Homepage
    More with your mouse over the bottom of each page in the press release: http://www.mpaa.org/press_releases/2006_02_21_raze r.pdf [mpaa.org]
    You will vind a hidden registration link.
    You guys have now stolen so much, the MPAA cannot afford anymore to pay a $30 registration fee to Iteksoft. http://www.iteksoft.com/modules.php?op=modload&nam e=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=4 [iteksoft.com]

  • Extra Taxes/Levy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Greefer (779397) on Friday February 24 2006, @06:29AM (#14791620)
    Lets just say in a perfect world, everyone stopped downloading. Do you think all the taxes and extra fees on blank media / or iPods (Canada) etc got added due to piracy would get lifted? I highly doubt it. They are getting some love / reimbursment .. I dont feel guilty at all for the stuff I download.

  • Clarifications from isoHunt.com / TorrentBox.com (Score:5, Informative)

    by AmVidia HQ (572086) <gary@@@isohunt...com> on Friday February 24 2006, @09:01AM (#14792151) Homepage
    This is IH from isoHunt.com. We also run TorrentBox.com. Some clarifications for comments here:

      * Yes, this is MPAA's FUD. The lawsuit included.
      * No, BitTorrent and P2P are not illegal (yet). They are not solely tools of thieves as the MPAA like to portray them as. There are many legal torrents in isoHunt's search index.
      * No, I haven't got anything from MPAA about this lawsuit of theirs, but the press release is real and we are working with other sites, sued or yet to be sued, and the EFF on this.
      * This is significant as they are suing search engines. isoHunt.com is a search engine. It does not discriminate, it index by algorithm. If we can, we'll be pulling in Google and Yahoo to say a few words that search engines are not illegal (yet).
      * No, I'm not a crook. I see P2P as the new VCR, and I intend on proving that P2P can be used to the benefit of content creators, as a cheap and global vehicle for distribution and promotion.

    Read more and comment on my forum announcement if you like:
    http://isohunt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38933 [isohunt.com]

  • Who's Next? Wag that Dog! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Friday February 24 2006, @11:23AM (#14793672)
    First they closed down the sites hosting content.
    Then they closed down the P2P centralized servers.
    Next they went after the distributed P2P systems and scared them off.
    They started suing random P2P users with large share directories, often missing the mark.
    Then they went after sites that stored only torrent files, and no actual content.
    Now they're after the sites that index the torrents, and have neither actual content, nor torrent files.

    Your own personal computer is next on their hit list of infringing devices.

    Is anyone aware of just how small these content industries really are compared to the overall economy? They are the tail wagging the dog!

    • Re:A Message from the Internet to the MPAA (Score:4, Interesting)

      by cliffski (65094) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:09AM (#14791239) Homepage
      An interesting but flawed philosophy. You seem to imply that if the IP holders were just scraping by and making ends meet, you would be happy for the torrent sites to be taken down?
      Im just about making ends meet as a software develoepr, and one of my games is available as a torrent. No doubt this isnt exactly helping sales. So I suppose that the torrent sites you support check the financial data of each submitted torrent, will spot that I'm a solo developer who needs the cash, and decline to list torrents of my stuff right?
      Bullshit. This is just freeloaders getting everything they can for free because they think they wont get caught. Dont insult everyones intelligence by dressing it up as some kind of robin hood tale.
      Many things the **IA do is bullshit, but closing torrent sites that encourage illegal content is fine by me. Bittorrent is a superb system that works wonders for distributing game demos and movie trailers etc. By defending its usage to steal IP, your just going to bring the whole system down.
      [ Parent ]
      • Ever thought that perhaps your game just isn't good enough?

        I'm not saying everyone out there downloading from BT is a saint who just wants to try before they buy. That would be bullshit. But there are enough people out there who doubled or even trippled

      • Re:A Message from the Internet to the MPAA (Score:5, Informative)

        by rm69990 (885744) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:30AM (#14791309)
        Ummm, you do realize sites like isoHunt don't have torrents *submitted* to them, they index .torrent files available elsewhere on the internet, much the same way Google indexes websites available elsewhere on the internet. They remove torrent links upon request, have you actually bothered emailing any of these sites to ask them to remove your torrent?
        [ Parent ]

    • Re:Misplaced effort (Score:5, Funny)

      by DeathToAllah (956853) <DeathToAllah@yahoo.com> on Friday February 24 2006, @04:37AM (#14791328)
      If they'd put half the effort into actually making quality films as they do with these worthless lawsuits, I'd gladly pay $30 for theatre admission and snacks for my girlfriend and I. Until then, I'm paying what it's worth to see these movies. Do they admit blow up dolls to movie theatres nowadays?
      [ Parent ]

    • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:5, Funny)

      by PorkNutz (730601) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:49AM (#14791357) Homepage
      Blanks don't count!
      [ Parent ]

      • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:5, Interesting)

        by laughingcoyote (762272) * <barghesthowl@nospAm.excite.com> on Friday February 24 2006, @05:03AM (#14791405) Journal

        I know your comment was a joke, but actually in many countries there's a tax on blank media that goes to content providers. So...in many cases, blanks DO count.

        [ Parent ]
        • In France for instance it is the case :) At the same moment the government is about to vote the controversial DADVSI law (that some nickname not without reason the "Vivendi-Unversal Studio" law). One of the goal of this law is to suppress the right Frenc

          • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:4, Informative)

            by DeeKayWon (155842) on Friday February 24 2006, @08:29AM (#14791988)
            First, the Canadian Music Industry said "Well, we can't stop online pirating, so we will propose a bill to tax all blank media", which basically included everything from hard-drive, USB sticks, and, of course, blank CDs and DVDs. The bill was passed and the levy went into effect.

            Of the four storage media you list, only one has the levy applied to it — blank CDs. The levy applies to "blank audio recording media", and according to the way they define that, hard drives, USB sticks and blank DVDs are not affected. At one point, the Copyright Board [cb-cda.gc.ca], who decides what media have the levy applied, applied it to portable digital audio players, but the courts struck that down.

            About a year later, they said "Well, we *can* stop online piracy, so we will propose a bill that makes it illegal and we will make additional income from legal bullying and litigation".

            My biggest problem with that, is that they "forgot" to remove the levy. So now, file-sharing is basically illegal...

            Wait, wait, wait. Lost somewhere in your story is the point at which the bill you refer to (bill C-60, I presume) became law. And bill C-60 has not become law. So I don't know what you're on about.

            [ Parent ]

    • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:4, Interesting)

      by msobkow (48369) on Friday February 24 2006, @07:58AM (#14791880) Journal

      The problem I see is that they take down legal content in the pursuit of pirated DVDs. Why should the BT community that isn't pirating DVDs be paying for the abuse of a few?

      With the approach the MPAA applies, bars, clubs, etc. would be shut down when a couple patrons are arrested for drug dealing or prostitution because they're "enabling" the illegal activity. For some reason, there doesn't seem to be a lot of precedence for the *AA approach of shutting down entire businesses when pursuing a few criminals.

      [ Parent ]

      • Re:Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dwandy (907337) on Friday February 24 2006, @08:07AM (#14791910) Homepage Journal
        The problem I see is that they take down legal content in the pursuit of pirated DVDs. Why should the BT community that isn't pirating DVDs be paying for the abuse of a few?
        Because the *AA's have done such a good job of convincing everyone that copy==pirate [timesonline.co.uk] that there is no such thing as legal content...
        [ Parent ]

    • Re:I'll get modded troll (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tekrat (242117) on Friday February 24 2006, @04:54AM (#14791377) Homepage Journal
      I hate to agree with you, but I agree with you. Only the threat of real violence is ever going to stop anybody. Peaceful protest doesn't work.

      Look at the success of the Muslims protesting the Cartoons of the profet Mohammad. USA Newspapers and TV are scared shitless to air the offending cartoons, in fact, you have to hunt real hard to find out what the hoopla is all about.

      Imagine if every lawyer working for the RIAA suddenly had to fear for his life every time he issued a supeona against a website. Imagine if every spammer thought that his family could be in danger when he sends out the 6 billion emails for Penis Enlargement.

      They'd think twice about doing such things if it meant their car would have flats, their house could be burnt and their family kidnapped and beheaded.

      There's an old saying that freedom must be taken. If we want to be free of these gangsters, then we need to take action, and it's very likely going to have be violent action because these days nobody understands anything else.

      The terrorists have won. They have taught us that terrorism can get people to change their ways. Look how much they have changed the USA. We need to take that lesson and apply it to other areas that need change.

      So, yes, while I don't want to agree with you, I admit that that only way I see real change happening is after some people die. It's not a nice thing to say; but it's an awful reality that we may have to come to accept.

      And please don't send the FBI to my house, I'm not a lunatic about to commit these crimes, I'm simply pointing out that this is likely to happen sooner or later.

      Thanks!
      [ Parent ]

      • Re:I'll get modded troll (Score:3, Informative)

        by W2k (540424)
        you have to hunt real hard to find out what the hoopla is all about.

        No, you have to type "Mohammed" into Google, and it's on the first page. Better yet, type "Mohammed caricatures" and you get several pages of links. That's not "hunting real hard", tha
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