RIM Wins Ground in Patent War 98
ttyp0 writes "The maker of the BlackBerry on Wednesday gained some ground as it fights a battle over patents with NTP, which is trying to shut down most sales and service of the portable e-mail device in the United States. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued a final rejection of one of five disputed patents owned by NTP, another step in a long process that Research In Motion Ltd. hopes will allow it to keep operating its U.S. BlackBerry service. NTP, a closely held patent holding company, has successfully sued RIM for infringement of its patents. I've been following the case closely as our company is about to invest in BES, a costly venture indeed."
Didn't Bill... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:From what I've read of the legal battle (Score:1)
Re:From what I've read of the legal battle (Score:2, Funny)
Any time lawyers make money, it must be good for the economy. i.e.: Class action lawsuits, patent infringements, antitrust cases, etc....
</sarcasm>
Re:From what I've read of the legal battle (Score:5, Insightful)
Its not like the lawyers are hording the money.
I mean, think of all those poor hookers that would be out of a job if we didn't have all that litigation money going into the lawyer's pockets.
Re:From what I've read of the legal battle (Score:2)
Re:From what I've read of the legal battle (Score:1)
BES cost (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, purchasing BES is expensive. But you can get some good deals, like my company did, where you buy 10 Blackberries and get a copy of BES for free.
Re:BES cost (Score:5, Interesting)
Now if someone knows about a Linux solution it would make the setup even sweeter.
Re:BES cost (Score:1)
That being said, Goodlink is a far better solution than BES for Exchange 'push' email.
Re:BES cost (Score:1)
Re:BES cost (Score:3, Insightful)
Like a friend of mine said recently on this subject, "I don't care about pushing or pulling as long as it gets me where I am going".
There is useably no difference between a phone that polls every 2-3 minutes and a blackberry. If a message is make-or-break-must-read and two minutes is too long, it probbaly shouldn't have been in an email in the first place.
Re:BES cost (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:BES cost (Score:1)
Er, huh? (Score:2)
If you have a Blackberry, your phone's radio is constantly on and connected to the server. Otherwise the push functionality would not work.
With a polling phone, the radio only has to power up every poll interval to make a connection.
Since the radio is the main battery draw of any phone, not the CPU, I would hardly think a blackberry would be easier on batteries than a polling phone.
Re:Er, huh? (Score:2)
Since the radio is the main battery draw of any phone
No, the transmitter is the main battery draw of any phone, or any portable radio system for that matter. Push saves battery life because the handheld device doesn't have to fire up the transmitter to find out there's nothing to do.
Re:Er, huh? (Score:3, Informative)
Why do you think, the tower just beams out the email and hopes the device is connected?
Re:BES cost (Score:2)
This discussion is about the mobile messaging market isn't it?
Some people do not know that there are alternatives. Even if the alternative is Microsoft it is still an alternative.
If a company is already using said MS product than it quite possibly makes sense that they use a feature of that product instead of spending the extra money on new devices AND a service charge?
Now with an open source project thrown into the mix that meets the same need there isn't much ne
Re:BES cost (Score:2)
For some reason I suspect this wider range of devices all run an OS from a single company, which will remain unnamed.
Re:BES cost (Score:1)
Re:BES cost (Score:1)
Where's the beef? (Score:5, Interesting)
This really isn't great news for the Blackberry, because RIM has already lost the original suit from NTP -- and as the article states, it could take *years* for the validity of the remaining 4 patents to be finalized... NTP could drag this process out in court for quite some time, all the while putting pressure on RIM or possibly finding a judge that will grant some type of injunction.
Sometimes it doesn't matter if you're right; it matters more if you're around for the long haul. After all, what's the use of being an excellent boxer if you can't last past 3 rounds?
NTP has the edge here...
Re:Where's the beef? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1930775,00.a
Re:Where's the beef? (Score:1)
I really don't understand why NTP don't want to settle. I think RIM offered some money to them.
Re:Where's the beef? (Score:1)
(1) they've got a workaround which can apparently kick in at any time
(2) they've made their system and services as ubiquitous as possible
(3) influential bodies (e.g. Congress) have become reliant on their technology, and
(4) they're successfully challenging the validity of the patents in a legal forum
Especially given (2) and (3), I think they've trumped NTP.
Covered already... (Score:2)
The Justice Dept. (Score:5, Funny)
From the the-department-of-justice-shant-be-deprived-of-bl
Re:The Justice Dept. (Score:1)
Re:The Justice Dept. (Score:2)
I work in a government position and we run our own BES. We couldn't give a crap whether or not this case goes in favor of NTP or RIM.
...and that's just how they want it to be.
Re:The Justice Dept. (Score:2)
Paul
Re:The Justice Dept. (Score:2)
Too bad! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Too bad! (Score:1, Funny)
If we can't kill off people with hypertension, we won't be able to retire until we're octogenarians, mister smartypants.
RIM litigated first (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, as with all things software patent related, it turns out that others had also patented similar things. And whamo, their story changes.
Anyone have the details of this history? It's something that seems to have been forgotten in this story. I know RIM sued at least Handspring and Good, but I'm really curious about the threats of litigation that got NTP to go after them.
Instead of RIM threatened by bogus patents, this story could very well be company that litigated others out of the market faces own medicine.
I don't remember this well enough though, someone has got to have the history in a better format. All I remember is that RIM was running around talking about patents from way way back.
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:2, Insightful)
Why didn't you *simply* ask for clarification about the NTP & RIM history, rather than add noise?
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:2)
:notices he's getting the evil eye:
and not doing mean stuff to people.
That is also Karma
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:1, Informative)
It drives me crazy when someone looks at the thumbpad on a BlackBerry and proclaims that the idea is "obvious". Remember that before RIM invented that thumbpad people were sending SMS messages with a nine button numeric keypad.
Everything is "obvious" to people who look at something after the fact. What they don't understand is that a hardware revision costs many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not c
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:1)
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:3, Informative)
It dictates the keys in very specific shapes, sizes, and relative arrangements - which I suspect is the result of some serious UI research.
It's not "just a miniature keyboard".
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:2)
Re:RIM litigated first (Score:1)
Yeah, RIM has been hoist by their own petard. Sucks to be them...glad I didn't buy their crappy equipment.
From an engineering perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
How does all this help to promote the progress of science and useful arts as set forth in Article I, secition 8 of the US Constitution and for which patents are supposed to have their purpose?
In some perverse way Blackberry's troubles may be a deserved lesson in not adopting an open standard.
Even if Blackberry wins this, they'll eventually be hit with a "hot coffee" musculoskeletal disorder [kron.com] lawsuit.
So what's the answer? More lawyers, less engineers and invertors?
Re:From an engineering perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
yes but then what would the lawyers do? They need to eat too you know.
Anyway it's called the US legal system. It's the biggest joke in the world. Look at how long the SCO case has been going on. Following that case taught me that the US legal system is a like a hot dog factory. You don't w
Re:From an engineering perspective (Score:2)
Re:From an engineering perspective (Score:2)
Re:From an engineering perspective (Score:1)
The prize for the final surviving lawyer would be all-you-can-eat McDonalds, so he wouldn't have to worry about eating, and we'd all know he'd be dead in a year or so anyway.
If you are looking to get a BES.... (Score:2, Informative)
However if you are not on MS Exchange, then of course that would necessitate the RIM solution.
Re:If you are looking to get a BES.... (Score:1)
The harsh reality is that non-tech savvy employees cannot or will not adapt to non-Exchange (or Notes, et al) environment. If it's not what they know, they're less than productive and all you do is hear the quota carrying fratboys (who run the show) whine.
I've seen several robust infrastructures shut down because of user complaints of it being "different" and they can't use their favorite Outhouse add-on. It's sad, but true.
It's only t
Re:If you are looking to get a BES.... (Score:1)
Bring back the working model requirement (Score:2)
The rise of lawyer-dominated patent holding companies, such as NTP, suggests that the current patent system doesn't do enough to drive mass production of new inventions. These lawsuit-happy companies
Re:Bring back the working model requirement (Score:2)
I don't disagree that this is a good idea, however I don't think it would help a whole lot for some of these patents, as
Re:Bring back the working model requirement (Score:2)
Yes, but you don't have to create a fully working product in order to have a "working model" for a software patent. All that you would have to do is create something simple which demonstrates the invention being patented in effect.
I've done it. Like I said, one of my previous employers decided to file patents in two countries for two "inventions" I created which working there. One of them I came up with one night at home, while watching TV.
Working model doesn't fix patenting (Score:1)
A working model requirement (besides being quite hard to implement) does not fix the patenting system. I'm sure these people http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/23/0159230. [slashdot.org]
Re:Working model doesn't fix patenting (Score:1)
Re:Bring back the working model requirement (Score:1)
Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (Score:2)
Does this make Feb 24 2006 legal gatherings moot regarding RIM network shutdown?
Re:Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (afraid not) (Score:1)
I wish but, there are still four more patents involved in the suit. That suit cannot be dismissed unless all five were to be invalidated. Though this is a likely outcome, it could take a couple more years before the patent office gets off its arse and completes the dispute process.
Re:Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (Score:2)
Re:Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (Score:2)
Regardlesss, tomorrows ruling has serious implications not just for RIM but for IP patents in general. Being Canadian, I have a special place for RIM but at the same time they are getting a bit of what they delivered themselves.
Re:Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (Score:2)
[:..itchy.mouse.finger..:]
Re:Moot Day - Feb 24 2006 (Score:2)
But that's besides the point. AFAIK, IANAL, blah blah blah, gestures mean nothing under the law. Under the law, there is still four valid patents which could cause an injunction against RIM.
Nope. But it's not like they'll flip an off switch (Score:2)
Maybe we should hope that RIM loses... (Score:1, Interesting)
Who knows, maybe this will mean the patent system gets (at least partially) fixed.
Re:Maybe we should hope that RIM loses... (Score:1)
Write your congressman (Score:4, Informative)
William G. Trost:
6,317,592 and 6,067,451 Electronic mail system with RF communications to mobile processors
Stephen Chin
6,272,190 System for wireless transmission and receiving of information and method of operation thereof
6,198,783 System for wireless serial transmission of encoded information
Re:Write your congressman (Score:1, Troll)
Check my post history, I consistently point out the ignorant bullshit on slashdot about patents, but you're a certifiable fucktard.
Write your congressmen and ask them to drag these patent examiners in for questioning:
And now I demonstrate that you don't know shit about what you're babbling about.
It is the policy of the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) that its employees, including patent examiners, will not appear as witnesses or give testimon [uspto.gov]
Re:Write your congressman (Score:2)
In addition to being flat wrong, you're doing precisely this, as an anonymous coward.
Just ignore back_pages (Score:2)
Generally, anyone calling you a "fucktard" in their posts is a pretty good candidate for ignoring.
Re:Write your congressman (Score:2)
It is the policy of the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) that its employees, including patent examiners, will not appear as witnesses or give testimony in legal proceedings, except under the conditions specified in 37 CFR Part 104, Subpart C
You're not interesting, you're ignorant.
Okay, I'll bite on this one: exactly what does the USPTO's official policy on hows its employees must go about responding to subpoenas
Re:Write your congressman (Score:1)
Re:Write your congressman (Score:2)
Those regulations seem to be departmental policy based on judical precident. I didn't see any laws cited that would prevent them from testifying if given a supena by congress.
My Thumbs Hurt (Score:1)
WTF? What crack is this article on? (Score:2)
To Quote: http://www.rim.com/news/press/2006/pr-22_02_2006-0 1.shtml [rim.com]
They may (Score:1)
Re:They may (Score:2)
Take my love, take my land,
Take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the sky from me.
"Successfully"? (Score:3, Insightful)
> RIM for infringement of its patents.
"successfully sued" inplies that they have won something. They have not. All that they have succeeded in doing so far is filing, which anyone with the cash for the filing fees can do. Tomorrow is the hearing on their motion for a preliminary injunction. There is an excellent chance that it will be denied.
Re:"Successfully"? (Score:1)
Re:"Successfully"? (Score:3, Informative)
NTP has "WON" the suit, in that the court has ruled that RIM did in fact infringe on the patents. Now the court needs to decide what NTP gets for it. So far, the court has awarded (as a preliminary step while ligitation continues) NTP over 8% of RIM's sales, but NTP is not happy enough with that. RIM and NTP have not been able to come to an agreement on licensing, royalties, whatever, so the court now has to decide whether or no
Patent Medicine (Score:2)
Beyond all the other arguments - constitutional, pragmatic, new-economic, philosophical - there really is
Dupe? (Score:1)
Not like I submitted it then, or anything.
The good of the bad (Score:2)
Meanwhile Canadia would continue to have BB service, causing a potentially embarrassing technological service imbalance on North America. While the