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Librarian Suspended over Patrons' Web Access 414
bsw149 writes "The head librarian of the Valparaiso Community Library in Florida was suspended
after investigators found that users had viewed adult content on public computers.
While the library has a policy against viewing adult material on library
computers, the librarian is facing possible dismissal. Is the best enforcement policy to
hold librarians personally responsible for the materials patrons' access?"
That's Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
I find that amazing... (Score:4, Informative)
There are several rural schools that share network access with public libraries, and this is one of the things that we have to work around (computers belonging to the school must be filtered, but computers belonging to the library must not be.)
I find it amazing that libraries in the US are not only allowed to censor information, but that they are *expected* to.
Re:I find that amazing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just a little while ago they put in some Linksys WRT54G access points and people come in with laptops. The WRT54G has custom firmware http://www.portless.net/menu/ewrt/ [portless.net] that gives a spash page with the TOS.
Very Deliberate (Score:3, Informative)
Totalitarian control in the U.S. can't take place without turning the populace into its own jailers, a'la the GDR. DHS has had Yvgeny Primakov [impeach-bush-now.org] and Markus Wolf [nsf-journal.hr] as consultants for creating "internal security measures."
Ten years from now, one-third of you will be reporting on the rest, just to keep your rare and valued job in the cafeteria. - That BTW, is th
Re:Very Deliberate (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the dollar began to float, in 1971, the buying power of that dollar has dropped by approximately 80 per cent. It has dropped 55 per cent since 2000 alone, when the present regime came to power.
Rome existed for 1,000 years, and was finally destroyed by uncontrolled immigration. There just wasn't enough to go around.
We may be past the point of a peaceful resolution to the totalitarianism that is overwhelming us. Historically, only violence has been a successful solution to dictatorship.
Re:Very Deliberate (Score:3, Insightful)
Why are so many Slashdotters anti-technology?
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:2)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Informative)
It depends on the library. A library doesn't always need to block adult content from adults. This is partly because a librarian shouldn't be in the position to determine what is or is not adult content for the library's patrons.
Re:That's Stupid (Score:2)
What's the difference between a firewall and a filter?
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
It wasn't the librarian that's getting suspendeded. It's the "The director of the Valparaiso (Fla.) Community Library".
It looks like people are on a witch hunt since a registered sex offender downloaded child pornography from the library's website.
If anyone should be fired it should be the librarian on-duty sice he or she was not doing his or her duty of performing a walk-through of the area and monitoring all the computers.
From the article:Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
You may not see anything wrong with it but that's just your opinion, which, I suspect, has no basis science and merely an opinion. The dangers of sexual addiction (the sex offender from the article is key in this discussion) are widely known within and outside of psychiatric circles. Do your own internet search for proof.
Nobody should be fired (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's the point. No one should be fired over this incident. The librarian is there to assist patrons in study and scholarship, not to be a net nanny that makes sure nobody is downloading porn.
This is an unfortunate incident that a politician is trying to make a name from. If anyone should be fired its the commisioner who is now on a witch hunt.
Re:That's Stupid (Score:2)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't mandated filters illegal in a library?
Re:That's Stupid (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
But since i went in to a libary this week may i add that i had the full atttention of a librarian for an hour reserving 18 books.
Libraries need to decide what they are either a) blockbuster, b) a book shop, c) or an internet cafe. and hire the right staff.
When i go into the library i dont want dvd's, or computer time. I want books, and if i take an hour of the library staffs time to r
Re:That's Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Libraries are d) a storage and distribution center for information and culture, whether it is printed in books, recorded into a tape, engraved into a vinyl disk, burned into a CD, downloaded from the Internet, or memorized by bards. They exist to distribute information to everyone who needs (by his own judgement, not governments or anyone elses) it, and culture for the enlightenment and entertainment of all. As new forms to store and distribute information are developed, libraries need to adapt to do their job. They are doing exactly that.
And the "right staff" is people who refuse to install any kind of information filters into computers, or perform any other kind of censorship. Internet content filters are just a modern equivalent of book pyres. Installing them is suitable behaviour for nazi hordes, not for civilized citizens of civilized countries.
A librarian who walks behind peoples backs to make sure they don't access forbidden pages might be complying with laws, but she is betraying her society by perverting her job into a propaganda officer ("citizen, don't watch those disgusting lies, go and watch this page which gives praise to our glorious leader").
Well, you obviously either have a computer of your own or can use some other way to connect to Slashdot, but not everyone is so lucky. Be happy that you are.
And DVD's are in the library for the same reason that cassettes, vinyls, CD's and videos are - they contain culture, and it is half of librarys mandate to give access to that culture to its users.
Any particular reason you're mention this ? Are you just trying to demonstrate what a though guy you are, or are you trolling ?
But go ahead, take an hour (altought that's about three minutes per book - pretty slow library staff you have there). We have three desks in my library (and most customers use automated lending machine anyway), and I'm sitting and you're standing while making the reservations. No skin off my back, or anyone elses, plenty of skin of your feet :).
Re:That's Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
How is it the librarian's fault?
You hit the nail on the head with that statement. It should be city management that should be fired for neglect of supporting policy. City politicians could have subscribed to a block list and lay down the infrastructure to enforce this policy, like most do. Instead they make her out as the cause when in fact it is disfunctional inept city politics that is the cause.
I hope the lawyers tear the city apart for wrongful dismissal. The city's only chance in surviving would be if they demonstraited support for the library personnel to boot patrons out for viewing porn, which is not likely. And last I checked, sex offenders don't walk around with tattos on their forehead to say so.
She is clearly a victim.
Re:That's Stupid (Score:2)
Right. They keep it on the business card. It says "Politician."
Re:That's Stupid (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's Stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
That still only blocks porn it knows about or can guess by the text in the site. It seems that every three days there's a new goatsecx or lemonparty or tubgirl, and thats just the shock and horror sites. Imageboards are the new place for porn and those are growing like weeds and tend to not have enough text to figure out their porn-ness on the fly.
Is it in their job description? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:2)
This is, of course, if the issue at hand really is people continually using library resources to view porn, and not a one-time thing, or the government calling breast c
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever worked at a big institution? Everyone who works at big institutions tries to arrange the facts and situation so the blame lands somewhere else, often while they are not given the resources to do so, and completely conflicted directives.
A friend of mine once worked in a situation where after working at a company for 5 weeks, he was asked to be personally responsible (as far as his career goes anyways), for the certification of each device manufactured. A piece of software which he was responsible for certified the devices, and this software was basically 8000 lines of if-then-else statements cobbled together over 6 years. A misconfigured device could easily destory 100,000's of dollars of materials.
Whats wrong with that you ask? There was *NO* policy describing the correct certification of these devices. None. No way to verify the program is operating correctly, a no definition even of waht correct operation was. So basically they were looking for a fall guy when the inevitable happened.
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone with generations of many librarians in the family, I can say that monitoring what users access - be it electronic or paper - is antithetical to being a librarian.
Librarians are supposed to be about enabling patrons to find the information they are looking for, not judging them and certainly not censoring the information.
It's true that lots of people want to turn librarians into the information police to enforce their own social agendas. But that role is about as far from what it means to be a librarian as you can get.
For example, when the Patriot Act required that libraries secretly reveal their patrons' borrowing histories in effectively warrantless searches, librarians around the country made sure that their systems stopped keeping borrowing histories. That all they ever tracked is what books a patron currently had checked out and once returned all records of that check-out were destroyed. Thus enabling their patrons to borrow any material they wanted without fear of being tracked.
Being a librarian is about tearing down the walls around information, not building them up.
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:3, Interesting)
One, librarians aren't the police. They shouldn't be forced to go around making sure people aren't committing crimes. As far as I know, child pornography is a crime because it involved harming someone, even if in the past-tense.
However, if a librarian sees something illegal going on, wouldn't it be his or her duty to report it for further investigation?
About borrowing histories, or histories of any kind (even ISP histories/logs), those definitely need to be destroyed. Same if there ar
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know I'd rather live in a world with free information - yes, even if that means a sick minority can masturbate over pictures of little kids - than in a police state where I could be "disappeared" if I was caught looking at anti-government websites.
I think I'll propose a new corrolary to Godwin's Law. Anonymous Coward's Law states: in any discussion about freedom of information, the likelih
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:3, Informative)
CDA: Comunication Decency Act
CPPA: Child Pornography Prevention Act
COPA: Children's Online Protection Act
CIPA: Children's Internet Protection Act
All struck down as unconstitutional. I think CPPA may have been the only one addressing virt
Re:Is it in their job description? (Score:3, Informative)
Dismiss the dismissers! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dismiss the dismissers! (Score:2, Insightful)
let's fire all the politicians who only server the interests of the people who contributed to there compaigns while were at it! and fire all the teac
Re:Dismiss the dismissers! (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be more accurate to say we should fire any cop who fails to increase crime on his shift. Ludicrous, yeah?
Re:Dismiss the dismissers! (Score:5, Funny)
Things seem to be heating up around here. A smidgen over four hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit, even.
So, what actually happened? (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, it's an "incident" not "incident s ", so it probably only happened once, and if the history just showed one site, I can think of a thousand ways that could have accidentally happened.
We're missing some kind of important details here.
Re:So, what actually happened? (Score:2)
The Fing Article (Score:3, Informative)
The director of the Valparaiso (Fla.) Community Library was suspended without pay in early August after city officials found that a registered sex offender had used library computers to access pornographic websites.
City Commissioner Robert Billingsley said in the August 12 Gainesville Sun that he would ask the commission to fire VCL Director Sue Martin, but he declined to explain why he thought she had not done enough to prevent the incident, which occurred July
Re:So, what actually happened? (Score:2)
I don't know Sue Martin, but it seems to me there HAS to be more to this story than what the ALA is reporting. Was she reprimanded before for lack of supervision of the computer area? Is she an outspoken proponent for the library causing waves locally? We probably won't
good grief. (Score:3, Insightful)
No, this is stupid. Librarians don't spend years in school earning higher degrees in library science to become nannies. The world has enough problems, why must they keep inventing new ones?
My Rights Online???!! (Score:2, Interesting)
The fact is that the librarian's superiors didn't think she was doing enough to stop people from browing for porn, and they took action.
I also like how the slashdot summary noted it was "adult matierlal" when it was in fact kiddy porn, which is not legal at all.
This story is not very interesting or relevant to most people. But it at least it provides a forum for the Chicken Littles to scream about the death of Free S
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Same for this dude. He has nothing to do with it, provided he took reasonable precautions prior to letting patrons on the library computers (i.e. install "sanctioned" filters). If patrons know how to circumvent the filter, then it's either the patrons who should be arrested, or the filter's manufacturer who should bear some responsability.
What I'm driving at is that if the librarian did whatever he could to prevent downloading kidd
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2)
If the "someone" in question happens to be a high-ranking manager, yes. Why? Because the IT guy didn't prevent the spyware that "accidentally" downloaded the kiddie porn. I had a roommate that was stuck in that position. The only way he got out of losing his job was that he started logging the manager's web activity and the CEO personally verified the logs on a clean computer to see if this stuff was being "accidentally" downlo
Guy Named Sue (Score:2, Funny)
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:4, Insightful)
So, in essence, this is about everyone's rights online.
Knowing about how cheap the Valparaiso City Commission can be about things, I doubt the library was provided the funding for any kind of useful software to help in this task. But I cannot say authoritatively since the last time I visited the ValP library was back when the only computer there was a Commodore 64.
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Lolita, Portnoy's Complaint, How to Draw Nudes, Ruebens and the American Library Association reports that the most commonly stolen library items are copies of the magazines Road & Track and . .
The world is full up of adults and libraries are full up of adult material for them to access, unpoliced (well, except for that PATRIOT thingy).
There is also an essential difference between denying access by not ac
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2)
Everything else seems pretty much spot-on to me.
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2, Insightful)
KFG
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:5, Insightful)
The director of the library was suspended, not just any librarian. TFA doesn't go into the details too much, but the city officials were orchestrating this, and she have a hearing. That's pretty much how serious it is. Start thinking criminal charges. Maybe not jail time, but possibly community service.
Nor was it kiddy porn that the people surfed. They just charged the sex offender with possession, but TFA states that he (and some underaged boys, big surprise there) had looked at adult material using library computers.
Nice try, troll.
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:3, Insightful)
An excellent question. Where to begin?
First, the library is one of the traditional places for persons to get information. Things related to your rights that concern librarians:
-Censorship
-Public Access to Information
-Public Access to Government Information
-Intellectual Freedom
-Privacy
-Copyright and Intellectual Property
There's more.
One of these issues is technological barriers to access, such as filtering, and how t
Your Rights Online. Here's how: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Your Rights Online. Here's how: (Score:2)
So if the system allows this, why could we not punish you for someone else's crimes?
Note to self: Preview THEN post.
Calm Down Silly Person. (Score:3, Insightful)
The issue is that a person is getting fired for what appears to be out of their control. For a what seems to be a single incident.
This has nothing to do with freespeech/etc. Its about the transposing of fault to innocent people.
The person doing the viewing is at fault and should be punished, not the person running the building.
The only thing it should do for the librarian is serve as a wakeup call that their blocking procedure isn't adequate.
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:3, Informative)
1) The patron was caught browsing adult material on library computers.
2) The patron was a registered sex offender.
3) The patron was caught a few days later with kiddie porn on his hard drive.
Nowhere in the article does it explicitly say (or even imply) that the material at the library was kiddie porn.
Re:My Rights Online???!! (Score:2)
Assuming that the content involved was not illegal (i.e. child pornography, warez, etc.), why should a public library interfere? If the librarian was seeking to protect the public's right to free access to protected speech, then she should be commended not fired.
Standard Policy? (Score:3, Interesting)
Simple solution (Score:5, Funny)
Once we get rid of all those books and magazines and that interweb thingie, we can get back to the important stuff. I think it's time we put an end to all of this inappropriate behavior by setting an example. Let's put the librarian to death and be done with it. She's obviously a witch.
To be fair... (Score:2)
Public vs. Private Libraries (Score:2)
Today, most libraries are called 'public' and are paid woth tax dollars in addition to donations given to the public body administering the library. They're now restricted so much by gen
Re:Public vs. Private Libraries (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Public vs. Private Libraries (Score:2)
Re:Public vs. Private Libraries (Score:2)
It's their job! (Score:2)
The Real Question (Score:3)
The real question is what is a public library funded with public dollars doing by being in the business of censorship. Adult-oriented material should be freely accessible from publicly-funded. In some cases, libraries should implement measures to ensure that non-adults are not exposed to adult-oriented material but, then again, there are no limitations on what books one may check out from a public library, regardless of age.
Re:The Real Question (Score:3, Insightful)
If I had known (Score:2)
It's Florida! (Score:3, Funny)
As usual, the summary doesn't tell the whole story (Score:5, Insightful)
"The director of the Valparaiso (Fla.) Community Library was suspended without pay in early August after city officials found that a registered sex offender had used library computers to access pornographic websites."
Since I don't know what really happened I won't dispute whether the librarian is at fault. I'll just note that filters really don't work well and for libraries it's either the choice of internet or no internet. Nothing much in between.
If internet access is so much of an issue, perhaps the computers should be put in a seperate room where you have to be over 16 or 18 to enter and use or have your parents sign a permission slip.
Personally I think it's all that streak of classic American puritanicism anyway, TV shows violence with people's heads and other body parts blown off every night of the week, or have realistic grotesque autopsies on CIS-like shows, or real grotesque surguries/diseases/etcetera on the scientific channels, or animals mating on any NationalGeographic or discovery channel yet a kid can't handle a glimpse of people doing the same?
If the sex offender viewed that stuff, put responsibility where it belongs and haul his ass to jail if he violated parole or whatever.
Re:As usual, the summary doesn't tell the whole st (Score:2)
Anyway, how is a librarian's responsibility to track whether a computer user is a sex offender or not?
You must be new here.
Obvious answer: make sexual offender wear ID (Score:3, Interesting)
And yes, I'm totally ki
Retaliation (Score:2)
Damned if you do... (Score:4, Insightful)
Librarians are not allowed by federal law to restrict what people view on the Internet.
Now, the librarians can be suspended/fired for NOT restricting what people view on the Internet.
What the hell is she supposed to do? Punt?
Don't you see!! It's all part of the plan.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Here's the lovely Catch-22 that's been set up for this librarian: Librarians are not allowed by federal law to restrict what people view on the Internet. Now, the librarians can be suspended/fired for NOT restricting what people view on the Internet. What the hell is she supposed to do?
She supposed to do what every other good fanatical amerikan is supposed to do, and just 'shut-up' and make believe that she is guilty-- on BOTH aspects of 'The Law'.
This 'catch 22' is now the norm, with 'the governement'
Re:Damned if you do... (Score:3, Informative)
Which federal law? As I recall, the federal government tried to pull the purse strings on libraries that didn't install internet filters.
(Luckily, they didn't put any clauses in the law requiring that the filter actually work to any standard. A content-neutral proxy would have counted as a "filter.")
This sounds like something a patron of The Gord [actsofgord.com] might say.
Re:Damned if you do... (Score:3, Interesting)
You mean nano-filaments, don't you?
Library budgets are right down there on the bottom rung with schools, parks and recreation and all the things society fears least and values most.
Great! (Score:3, Insightful)
Just more nonsense (Score:2)
When will it end? Somehow I'm thining "probably never." *sigh*
What a ridiculous response. (Score:2)
If a man stabs his wife while visiting his parents, are his parents responsible?
If a police officer shoots an innocent man while in the presence of his superior, is the superior responsible?
None of these make any sense. Why should a head librarian be responsible for something that happened in his or her presence that he or she had no control over whatsoever?
Librarians (Score:3, Insightful)
My reaction (Score:2)
Note the sarcasm in there... the internet is more than just a big reference. This isn't a card catalog with the dewey decimal system.
After reading how they prevent these incidents, it's pretty pathetic. Imagine "Martin" in the article is head of IT instead of head librarian:
The Sun quoted a letter Martin had written to Billingsley in which she explained, "We continually enforce our policy by monitoring all
Typical Current Attitude (Score:2)
Its always someone else's fault, they are just victims.
shouting 'fire' to crowd a theater... (Score:2)
Fire first (while the local headlines are hot), and ask questions later...
Big Brother Internet (Score:3, Insightful)
I will take my Internet service without Big Brother government watching, thanks.
It is legal, but not working (Score:2)
But filters don't work. I worked at MSI [sorehands.com] during the development of CyberPatrol. You just can't keep up with the amount of porn on the internet. And of course, one of the other programmers who worked on it didn't implment proper coding techniques. He was fast, but sloppy. Why do you that was developped so easily. [tbtf.com]
Gahd, America is fucked up! (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't it time you started demanding that things change?
Come on, mobilize already!
Your religious right is going to completely fubar your society and culture if you don't start demanding better. You can't afford to sit on your fat asses pretending that this stuff doesn't hurt you.
Librarians (Score:4, Interesting)
Let me tell you, if they have time to sit around and monitor users internet access all day, they are not doing their job.
You have a lot of responsibilities at that job, and one wrong step and everyone's clamoring for your resignation.
Consequently, she refused to use filtering software. Mainly because it was easy to get around and way too restrictive. Monitoring the internet usage should be done by the assistant librarians, but the head librarian is more worried about other stuff, like you know, making sure the library stays open.
Librarians, not baby sitters (Score:2)
Why limit it? (Score:2)
Well, if we're going to start blaming librarians for the actions of patrons on public terminals, why stop there? Why not broaden out the blame and let librarians take the rap for everything that's bothering us:
The war in Iraq - The Bush administration isn't accepting any responsibility for going to war on falsified pre-war intelligence, so let's blame those damn librarians! After all, if they we
Bigger picture (Score:5, Insightful)
The bottom line is that when something remotely sex related is found on a public access terminal in Florida, there is a kneejerk reaction to find a scapegoat and lynch that person as quick as possible.
If this were anywhere else in the nation, there would have been a Gaelic shrug and beefier security procedures put into place, no one getting crucified over it.
Why can't we look at "adult" images at the library (Score:4, Interesting)
In a million years, when the alien archeologists are picking through the remains of our society, they're going to have a hard time figuring out how we reproduced. "Well Xzgralfap, they documented the reproductive practices of every other species on the planet and labeled it 'biology'. But they're own reproductive practices were labeled 'pornography' and forbidden to be documented and studied by the ignorant."
I'm tired of it. Mary Carey for President, 2008. Her and Bill Clinton are the only two pro-pornography candidates I can think of. Don't forget to order your save the court [justicesunday.com] kit, today!
I used to work at a public library and... (Score:4, Interesting)
And, they had what I consider to be one of the most sensible policies for monitoring children I've ever seen: for children under 13, a parent or other guardian *must* be present for the kid to be allowed to use the computers.
The rationale was, well, rational: as a parent, you know what you consider to be inappropriate for your child, so it's up to the parent to make the judgment call.
I haven't been back to Sioux City in quite some time, and I certainly haven't been in the library, so I'm not sure if they've changed their policies. What I really liked about their policies is that they accounted for the unspoken question of appropriateness: appropriate for whom? The courts are never going to be able to decide what little Johnny's parents think is appropriate for him, so let/force them to decide. That's why I think it's crazy that librarians are expected to parent other people's children for them while they're at the library.
wrong question (Score:3, Insightful)
And the obvious questions... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) *what* investigators?
2) *why* were there investigators?
3) who sent them?
And a hearty thanks to all those who voted Republican, and so supported Christian neo-fascist "political correctness".
mark "and libertarian votes help the GOP"
Darwinism at work (Score:3, Insightful)
Even IF the librarian had a written contract guaranteeing perfect surveillance and control of the Internet kiosks, it is most likely a minor footnote compared to all the good done for the community. Or to put it another way, the inability to restrain suspicious conduct by a felon was found to outweigh all other contributions. Maybe an accounting of the tasks that were done instead of policing the kiosks would be illuminating.
Possibly there is a secret war against sex offenders that requires the public library to be some kind of gauntlet the newly released offender has to run. Not sure if that wouldn't in fact count as entrapment but.. heck Florida doesn't think libraries and custodians of knowledge are that important so screw 'em! There's a limited number of slots in the Ivies and Big 10 schools anyway.
Re:Suspended? (Score:2)
Re:Typical Hoosier reaction (Score:2)
Re:Between a rock and a hard place (Score:2)
But one thing that has not been mentioned... apparently Sue Martin was a lawyer, and a good one... good luck to the City Commission.
Speaking with my mother who is a librarian in the next town, they have NO filtering software because people complain about limitation of their rights. They *can* kick people out and revoke their computer priveleges, but supposedly they cannot actually go through users' histories because it invades their privacy!
Re:From TFA: (Score:4, Insightful)
If your duties are, by definition, limited and near impossible, you are doomed to defy those duties.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you allow full access, the users tend to run amok. If you prevent full access, then it's a challenge and those who circumvent the prevention are lauded as creative and gifted.
Re:By a show of hands... (Score:2)
Now, it would be polite of library patrons to use a terminal that wouldn't be visible to other patrons when viewing things that might offend others.
But I think librarians should be fired for interfering with the rights of patrons to read or view anything they want on the net. If a public library provides a resource, as a government entity it shouldn't be allowed to censor that resource under any circumstance.