AIM's New Terms Of Service

acaben writes "AOL has posted new terms of service for AIM, that include the right for AOL to use anything and everything you send through AIM in any way they see fit, without informing you. A sample passage: '...by posting Content on an AIM Product, you grant AOL, its parent, affiliates, subsidiaries, assigns, agents and licensees the irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote this Content in any medium. You waive any right to privacy.'"

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

More like All your Rights are belong to us

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

Which is why I've always used strong encryption [newsforge.com] to IM my friends. If AOL wants to break my 4096-bit RSA key to sell my "lol"s, then they're welcome to.

Technology is the solution to the erosion of our rights. If it's mathematically impossible to find out what you said, then... they won't know what you said. (Same for P2P. If you use Freenet you can legally share anything. Why? Because nobody knows (or can ever know) what you're sharing and what you're downloading. Laws don't solve problems!)

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

Which is why I've always used strong encryption to IM my friends. If AOL wants to break my 4096-bit RSA key to sell my "lol"s, then they're welcome to...

Hmmm...wonder how long before any encrypted messages are blocked? After all, it is THEIR servers the messages are going through, so they can filter.

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

Hmmm...wonder how long before any encrypted messages are blocked?

I'll say *never*.

base64/uu encoding of messages produces all standard characters. Unless AOL is going to try doing fuzzy-logic dictionary look-ups, and/or statistical analysis on ALL messages, there's no way they would even know the difference between encrypted and unencrypted messages.

The above methods would be impractical, and even if not, they would have to be very, very careful not to accidentally drop an unencrypted (though unintelligable) conversation.

Personally, I think AOL is going to eliminate encryption the same way the NSA did for e-mail... Just wait silently behind the curtain, and when there hasn't been any sign of evesdroping for some time, apathy will kick-in, and encryption will just fade-out on it's own.

dictionary look-ups?

Dictionary look-ups on AIMers? You're kidding, right? Normal AIM messages look like a base64 encoded file anyways.

Re:dictionary look-ups?

wtf r u tlkn abt? stfu, stupd n00b.

(ts a jk. laf)

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

If you use Freenet you can legally share anything. Why? Because nobody knows (or can ever know) what you're sharing and what you're downloading.

So if you break a law and don't get caught, it's legal? Riiiiiiight.

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

If you don't get caught, you don't get punished. Thus, the end result is that the same thing happens to a law-breaker that happens to a non-law-breaker (i.e. nothing). Therefore, effectively, a law was not violated.

So what you're saying is that Jack the Ripper, effectively, never broke the law?

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

More like "All your old news are belong to Slashdot"

The following terms and conditions apply to all users who either registered for AIM services or downloaded AIM updates or software on or after February 5, 2004. AIM users who do not register for AIM services or download AIM updates or software on or after February 5, 2004 and are members of the Netscape Network will remain bound by Netscape's terms and conditions. All other AIM users are bound by the aol.com terms and conditions.

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

I'm going to have to send the up the bomb then...

-kaplanfx

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

No, you fool! You'll just give AOL, its parent, affiliates, subsidiaries, assigns, agents and licensees the irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote the bomb as they see fit!

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

You had better stop worrying and learn to love the bomb, then!

Re:New Terms in A Nutshell

No, the new terms are:

"Remember, it's not rape if you click 'yes'".

: )

Fine, then

I suppose if they want the rights to some irreversibly encrypted garbage, they can go right ahead.

Re:Fine, then

In Trillian 3.1 Basic: Open up your Connection Preferences for the AIM connection. Click on the Miscellaneous tab. At the bottom, check the following: "Activate SecureIM capabilities", and "When possible, make a best effort to automatically maintain a SecureIM session with my contacts." HTH.

Re:Fine, then

The problem is that while I might be willing to use encryption, some of my friends are not so comfortable with computers and technology. Some of them don't take the time to remove that aim.com window that pops up with the startup of the default AIM client. I somehow doubt that I could convince them to do something as complicating-sounding as encryption. Just my opinion though.

Help a College Student [macminis4free.com]

Re:Fine, then

That's no surprise. Is that bug still there where AIM completely ignores the preference to not show that at login unless you click on junk in the AIM.com window at least once?

At least their preferences are laid out in a sensible Netscape-style window with the categories on the left. The problem is that there's just too many damn useless features to configure, as well as the fact that the actual preferences menu item is buried deep within a pull-down menu titled "My AIM". What the fuck does that tell me as a category and what options are under it? With the narrow amount of space in the menu area, it would be much better off with an "Actions" menu for everyday functions and a "Tools" menu for all the extra wacky features that nobody uses.

Re:Fine, then

I think GAIM is a much better client than some piece of proprietary bloatware encumbered with crapware and a nasty eula.

Do you really trust AOL to have choosen and CORRECTLY implemented a good crypto system? Do you trust they haven't backdoored it? Do you think any home-rolled cryptosystem (or even implementation of a solid design) can be trusted without peer review?

Re:Fine, then

The systray icon was finally updated with version 1.1.2 recently....full color and everything :)

Re:Fine, then

I suppose if they want the rights to some irreversibly encrypted garbage, they can go right head.

Absolutely. Go right ahead and plan on your average AOL user getting on board the clue train and encrypting their messages. Oh yeah. Really.

Re:Fine, then

AOL users already incrypt all their transmissions. Take the simple sentence "Hey dude. What are you doing later? I was thinking we should go to the mall." which becomes incrypted as:

HEY DUDE11!!!1 OMG WUT R U DONG L8R????!?? LOL I WAS THINKNG W3 SHUD GO 2 DA MAL!!1!1!11 WTF LOL

Damned if I can decrypt that

Re:Fine, then

I suppose if they want the rights to some irreversibly encrypted garbage, they can go right ahead.

UUEncode Windows and send it to yourself over AIM.

Let Microsoft and AOL club each other to death :-)

No encryption necessary

99% of what goes over AIM is garbage anyway.

(I know, I produce a lot of it)

Posts - not IM

You encrypt your posts? How will people read them?

I hate to sound like an AOL sympathizer, but the TOS specifically refers to "posts." Besides IM, AIM also provides message board services (or so I'm told by people who don't use Trillian, Gaim, or Psi).

Does "posts" refer to regular IM usage? AOL implies not, referring to "message board posts, chat participation, and homepages."

My reading of this is that AOL retains usage rights to everything you post on their static forums... forums which basically anyone can access. While I would feel better if this were not the case, that is a good bit better than AOL reading the I.M.'s you send to your co-workers.

It sounds like CYA to me. As if AOL were giving themselves the right to decide to add access to the chat forums online or through AOL's proprietary service. It's the kind of CYA that inspired them to prohibit people from using AIM "while driving, operating hazardous equipment, or engaging in other forms of hazardous activities."

On the other hand, go ahead and tell everyone on AIM about the TOS, without explaining that it's only posts. Then try to switch everyone over to Jabber. Please. The whole I.M. universe right now is about as convienient as sending E-mails from CompuServe to AOL in 1992.

Re:In response...

gaim-encryption.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net] provides an easy-to-use wrapper for NSS. It's available for both *nix and win32 and works quite well. I like the fact they didn't try to re-implement the crypto, but rather use someone else's proper (and well reviewed) implementation.

Folks, it is time to start putting your letters in an envelope. You can no longer trust the letter carrier to protect your privacy. Envelopes are cheap...so start using them.

Re:Third Party Clients

Actually, the new TOS specifically states that it only applies if you:
1) Registered for AIM after February 5, 2005
2) Downloaded AIM updates or software after February 5, 2005

Unless I'm drastically misreading that, that means none of the terms apply to people who've been registered for more than a month or so and use a third party client.

-ShadowRanger

Re:Third Party Clients

You are drastically misreading that. As the date on the TOS is "February 5, 2004"

Re:Third Party Clients

it'll be interesting to see how AOL claims to prove that any non AIM client users can assertively agree to this license. Last time i heard you cant agree to a contract by inaction. And to the best of my knowledge, i dont think any of the 'these terms may change at any time' have been tested in court by 'agreement by inaction'

so it remains to be seen.

I use Trillian...

and any information I care about goes through their SecureIM service.

So to AOL: I say this much, exploit fjkd;arjaiwor398u233209u''rju98e32 any way you want guys!

Re:I use Trillian...

So to AOL: I say this much, exploit fjkd;arjaiwor398u233209u''rju98e32 any way you want guys!

"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."?

I'm just guessing,

I'm just guessing, but I think they dont want customers. I'm not sending much thru AIM with those terms of Service.

Also, what about users of GAIM, et al, that havent agreed to those terms? Can they enforce this there?

Re:I'm just guessing,

I disagree. I use iChat on a Mac. I have a .mac account. I never signed up for an AIM account nor agreed to their terms of service.

All this means...

...Is that any smart business will not send proprietary information through AIM.

Of course, I say any smart business because I know some dumb ones will. Doesn't Microsoft have a similar policy with Hotmail?

I also really doubt if this were ever tested in court that it would stand. This is evil, but about what I'd expect from AOL.

New "reality tv"?

Perhaps we're about to see AOL/Time Warner roll out a new tv show... When 12 year old girls chat to each other over AIM - Uncut and Raw!

Re:New "reality tv"?

The FBI might have a problem with the conversations of their Special Agen...um... 12 year old girls, being broadcasted on late night cable.

Re:Not really surprising

Does it mean that USPS has a right to open all your mail, and then copy and use the contents as it wishes?

AOL is not any different from a mail carrier service because they do the same thing - deliver messages from one person to another.

You do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy when using it.

Why not? Many people abuse telephone network by tying up lines for hours at a time, so what? It does not allow the phone company to record and sell conversations.

New terms of service?

I dunno, but that sounds like typical terms of service for something like Instant Messenger, and doesn't sound very surprising or new at all. Granted, I haven't thoroughly read their ToS before... They're supposedly used so that they can distribute your messages (IMs) without any possibility of "infringement," but who knows?