Aus. Gov't Considers Fines for Online Suicide Info 674
downundarob writes "The Australian federal government is once again showing its cluelessness regarding the workings of the Internet. The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week, corporations would be fined up to AU$500,000 and individuals AU$100,000 if they use the Internet to incite or promote suicide methods. In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide."
Step 1: Get eaten by dingoes. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Step 1: Get eaten by dingoes. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:HELP..... (Score:3, Informative)
I dunno. It was a big big big news event when I was growing up (I was a kid then, in junior high school). If she was in my age group, I'd say she would have copped hell at school. Australian kids (no, wait, all kids!!) in her age group weren't even born then, so chances are that they'd no more know the significance of 'Azar
Final solution? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Final solution? (Score:4, Funny)
Fines ? (Score:4, Insightful)
If I were to look again, I think I'd offer one $ more than the fine amount to the one who'd help me.
Re:Fines ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please do get in touch with someone who can help, friends, family. If you feel comfortable revealing your address on
Re:Fines ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Suicide is a permanent solution to suffering, but it also stops love, joy, etc.
The time when suicide is a good option is when you are absolutely sure the suffering is permanent and no amount of love or joy can mitigate it. Depression is not one of those times; depression is temporary. A painful, debilitating, degenerative, permanent medical condition may cause suicide to be a good option. Only the person herself can make that decision.
Re:Fines ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, so a condition such as depression then?
*nods* (Score:2)
Re:*nods* (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Fines ? (Score:3, Interesting)
People depressed enough to commit suicide generally don't have any love or joy in their lives, and no prospect of it. Depression isn't a temporary thing, it lasts for years, decades. When you've been completely miserable for years and years, without a single enjoyable memory or anything to look forward to, no friends, no relationships, no ambitions or expectations, then you can make an intelligent prediction that your life is n
Re:Fines ? (Score:3, Informative)
Emotions aren't rational, they're chemical. As immensely stupid as it might sound, if you're not eating properly, sleeping well, and getting exercise, that might be a good place to start.
You should probably mention your feelings to a therapist. The social stigma regarding mental illness is horrible, but you shouldn't let that stop you if you're not happy and you think something's wrong. They can also help with permanent chemical imbalances which are part of clinical depression.
It's hard to make that
Re:Fines ? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why religions classify suicide as a terrible sin is quite different. The religions that survive today are those that do best at promoting their own survival. This is why religions try to take control over the sex lives and deaths of their believers. They wish to control sex because they want to ensure that sex serves one purpose - increasing the flock, and they wish to control death because they need to ensure that any death results in the recruitment of more followers eg. martyrdom rather than quiet suicide.
Re:Fines ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah, but sex does so much more than that for those religions that put controls on it. If the religious-based morals surrounding sex are broken (and they are usually impossible not to break, i.e. Matthew 5:28), they provide a massive supply of guilt, which disempowers that person (I'm so worthless, I can't even control my biologically driven thoughts), empowering the religion and the religion's leaders.
T
Re:Fines ? (Score:3, Funny)
If you need ideas on how... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not about ideas (Score:3, Insightful)
People with suicidal thoughts need to speak to someone who can show them the good things in their life and can help them solve all their problems, they don't need to be speaking to someone who talks them into it.
details (Score:3, Informative)
I wrote "I had" becase it's over.
I'm cured.
I was having a bad time: I lost a job which I actually hated, and I also considered changing my life.
I then had the following strategy : Waiting until the temperature would fall below -10C and sleep naked in my balcony.
The cold came... but too late.
I did not want to end it abruptly because I am married with a delicious woman and I wanted it to look like an accident.
Finally, I decided to
Re:details (Score:5, Insightful)
If she wasnt already dead I'd kill her for the pain and suffering she has cause me and especially my parents (and of course the rest of the family)
Suicide is never an option, unless maybe you are some hermit who no one loves. Nothing would be worth doing that to your wife. It would ruin her life forever.
I realize you're cured but you dont really seem to grasp how much it affects the people around you.
My parents are fucked up, my grades have gone to shit, and the whole family seems to just be permanently melancholie.
My advice to anyone contemplating suicide..DONT. Nothing is worth ruining the lives of your loved ones.
Re:details (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, thats exactly the sort of moral blackmail that holds our society together.
Re:details (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems your family weren't there for her when she was alive, but now you're criticising her? You're saying that she should stay alive and suffer for your sake, but you don't have to do anything for
From a Bi-Polar (Giving up Points!) (Score:5, Insightful)
I lost all of my friends and ruined relationships I thought would, and might have, lasted forever and have pretty much retreated from the world. For about two years I went through a severe depressed episode, the whole time almost getting help here and there. I truely thought all things were lost and started to slowly kill myself with any type of controlled substance I could get my hands on.
Ok, that was a severe exaggeration, but I was binging on everything. I started to do stupid (fun) things that would later set me up for a lot of trouble until something changed. I didn't get help, I just had a conversion. It happened to be a religious conversion but it wasn't religion that saved me. Well, I went through three religions before I settled on one I liked and incorporated everything else I learned.
During all of this I realized on the side that I was going to face bad days. I was going to be depressed and that my life wasn't going to end up the way I had always dreamed (which is a understatement-I barely function). But you know, I realized that hurting everyone else was pretty petty considering if I waited it out I would feel better some day. My chance of feeling like that forever was zero; so why not just say "Fuck it" and move on?
Not only is suicide the worst way to treat depression it is never the answer to any problem. Drugs, crime, shame, anything.... it's happened to someone before, lots of people. Some of them made it out. Shit, even if you are on crack - smoke that and say fuck it and live. You won't get a chance to do it again. I'm not even going to get on a high horse and tell you to quit the pipe - that is something to live for, it's a start.
Re:details (Score:3, Insightful)
Telling somebody who is unhappy to go on living to make you or someone else happy is similar to telling someone to do something to benefit you but not
Re:my condolences on your loss... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:details (Score:5, Informative)
Upper middle class family, dad started his own company, but by the time my sister was around he was home a lot.
No abuse, parents rarely fought..When I was growing up we were pretty poor (company just getting started and all) but when my sister was growing up we were decently well off.
My dad's side of the family is european, and all had very strong family values...
Parents seem to believe in god, but not enough to go to church, and never preached it to us, letting us make our own decision when we got old enough (me and her both decided it was a lot of hooey).
My parents every other year save up all year and take me and my sister on a trip to mexico. Sometimes every year if the money is good enough.
Not sure really how our family life could have been improved. Everyone i see around me has divorced parents, dysfunctinal relationships with the parents they do have...etc
I had a good relationship with her, but I moved out early because I love living on my own.
The sad thing is, because of the strong family values and that my sister had a good personality and everyone liked her..if she would have let on the tinyest bit that she was suicidal, anyone in the family would have done ANYTHING to stop this from happening. Myself included.
She left no note or indication of why she did it. She blocked me on msn that night, i assume so i wouldnt see her name she put "fuck you all, i'm gonna say goodbye" or something along those lines.
She has some really shitty drug addict freinds, i assume that couldnt have helped. The tox report came back negative for everything except a little bit of alcohol.
Either way, all of that beeing said..I am angry at her, but i still love her. I came off sounding madder at her than i am. Just trying to convince the grandgrandparent that suicide was a stupid thing to do because of the consequences it has for everyone.
Maybe she did have her reasons to die, but they werent worth the misery they caused.
A lot of people thus far have called me selfish etc, but i cant imagine what would be more selfish than what my sister did. I'm thinking of the welfare of my entire family. Now my parents marriage is on the rocks, my grades have gone to shit, and the rest of the family is totally depressed (all like i said before).
I think it must have been illness, but she didnt display any of the signs. She didnt get happier towards the end like some do, she didnt look super depressed. She had a low self image, like most teen girls...but none of this seems like suicide material to me...I guess it must have been illness.
Ah too much typing, just trying to get across to you that our family life was really great, and i dont have a single regret about my childhood. My sister was more spoiled than I was i guess because we had more money, maybe that contributed.
And its okay dont bother sparing my feelings, I'm near impossible to offend.
Re:details (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I'm not sure I should say anything. I'm sorry about your sister. I don't know you, but I'm sorry.
Anyway, as a guy who once counted it and it turned out around 10 girls had cried on my shoulder that fall (only two of wich were my fault, I'd swear they were telling each other to come to me to cry...), I had this thought:
No abuse
How would you know?
No offense, but, I was the only person, aside from the victim and the abuse
deterrant (Score:5, Funny)
Re:deterrant (Score:2)
Re:deterrant (Score:2)
Done. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/27/train.derailment / [cnn.com].
From story: ...Initially, Alvarez intended to commit suicide, police said, but he changed his mind. He exited his sport utility vehicle and watched as the Metrolink train hit it, derailed, ran into a northbound Metrolink commuter train and crashed into a parked Union Pacific train, police said .... charged with 11 counts of murder .... Prosecutor: No decision yet on whether to pursue death penal
Re:deterrant (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:deterrant (Score:5, Insightful)
My own opinion is that people should have the right to decide what to do with their own lives, and that includes deciding how to die.
However, I still find suicide to be the ultimately selfish act. I was on a ski trip a few years back. One guy who came along (aquaintance of an aquaintance) talked a lot about having been depressed and still occasionally considering suicide. His closest friend on the trip said "Ok, but you will leave your children without a father, and emotionally devastated. Also consider what an example you are setting for them. You will show them that suicide is an acceptable situation when they are depressed. Consider that first."
The guy became very silent after that. I felt sorry for him of course. While true, the guilt might have been another emotional burden for him.
teenagers.. (Score:3, Funny)
High school girl arrested for telling her boyfriend to 'drink bleach and die'
If this were Fark, we'd need an 'Aussie' tag.
Re:teenagers.. (Score:3, Informative)
Hmmm... Let's see:
"Wacky News?" check.
Flamebait headline?... check.
Single link to short article?... check.
Trolling?... check.
This is ironic (Score:3, Insightful)
Find A Taller Building (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Find A Taller Building (Score:4, Insightful)
I've noticed that everyone who is for death penalty has not been executed - me.
Never take for granted the rights.... (Score:3, Insightful)
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.
Suicide and sedition: the only crimes where those who suceed aren't prosecuted.
--
Free iPod? Try a free Mac Mini [freeminimacs.com]
Or a free Nintendo DS, GC, PS2, Xbox [freegamingsystems.com]
Wired article as proof [wired.com]
Re:Never take for granted the rights.... (Score:2)
There is a thin line between the protection the first ammendment gives and the amount of right guarentied to a citizen. It generaly fluctuates with the sediment of the peop
Re:Never take for granted the rights.... (Score:2)
Yes, like white supremacist groups inciting their members to murder [nytimes.com] judges and their families?
We all value free speech but the rest of the world thinks the US takes free speech too far (and remember, the US doesn't have the best record for civil liberties for non-whites, or racial harmony, so preaching that free speech trumps everything else seems, well strange).
Do we? (Score:2)
How about Churchill from CU?
As to other rights, I am amazed that Gov. Owens who fights against Quota's for race (Cool), is pushing to have Quota's at Universities based on Political Belief. Worse, he wants the Colorado Universities to only extend tenure to those who profess a conservative belief. And had the republicans controlled the colorado congress, they would have passed that.
Re:Never take for granted the rights.... (Score:2)
Re:Never take for granted the rights.... (Score:2)
objectionable material definition (Score:5, Insightful)
Different in terms of why it is objectionable, but the same reasons lie behind why governments legislate against kiddy pr0n, pull down sites with bomb making instructions, incitements for hatred (in many countries).
Australians Have a Viable Income Source.... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Justice Minister Chris Ellison says the laws
Well I'm sorry, but I don't think you can take down a site that says "Life sucks, kill yourself" without violating free speech.
Rich coming from Australia (Score:2, Funny)
Now I'm screwed (Score:2)
Re:Now I'm screwed (Score:3, Informative)
(Metalica before they became obvious money grubing pussies)
Re:Now I'm screwed (Score:2)
Ob. Simpsons (Score:2)
Good thing Maddox doesn't live in AU (Score:3, Funny)
How to kill yourself like a man [thebestpag...iverse.net]
Dammit! (Score:2)
11,456,324 Slashdotters didn't read the fucking article.
Suicide jokes (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh piss off (Score:3, Insightful)
People objecting to pornography, violence on TV. Sex education in schools etc etc. It's always to protect other people from corruption. Who are these mythical people, with cheese for brains? Nobody ever demands it's removal to protect themselves.
"Think of the children" blah blah
Hmm... (Score:2)
Thing is, I don't believe that they actually want to die. They just want to get saved and get attention. If you will, a rather extreme RL variant of what we call "trolling" on the net: causing grief to get attention.
E.g., sorry, I don't believe that a school mate "suiciding" on sleeping pills while her mom and family were at home can count as a honest suicide attempt. And for such a blatant
Re:Hmm... (Score:2)
I hope you're joking/trolling. If not please consider recommending them on to a counselor instead. Thanks.
Cheers
Stor
Looks like Microsoft is in trouble! (Score:5, Funny)
Goofy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Goofy (Score:2)
Re:Goofy (Score:2, Informative)
Illegal to succeed at suicide? (Score:5, Funny)
I can see it now...
Is it illegal to do it via spoken word? (Score:2)
Re:Is it illegal to do it via spoken word? (Score:3, Funny)
respect their decision. (Score:5, Insightful)
When I go through my suicidal phases, what helps most is talking to close friends who have dealt with similar issues, especially if they listen to you ranting (which really feels good). Not $random_person telling me it's a bad idea, blah blah.
Sorry for ranting.
uh... (Score:3, Insightful)
Been there, tried that (Score:5, Insightful)
What I didn't know is what methods would assuredly kill me. Or, if they wouldn't necessarily kill me, leave me without lasting harm. The Internet told me. There are all kinds of websites out there talking about the various suicide methods, with recommendations. You can easily order Final Exit, or even find the text online.
Moreover, the Internet provides knowledge for where to obtain lethal substances, and substances that put you in a state making it easier to kill yourself.
I am quite confident that I would never have attempted suicide if I didn't have access to the Internet. The method I chose would not have even occurred to me if I hadn't read about it online. Indeed, it was the most recommended method on the net, and I wouldn't have thought it.
So I think it's obvious that the Internet lowers the bar to committing suicide.
But that said, it's ridiculous to consider sensoring this information. There are the obvious free speech issues which I'm sure other people here will discuss. What I want to note, however, is that for me, research suicide options was also therapeutic. People think how terrible it is that someone would contemplate suicide, but they don't realize how much thinking about it can relieve the pain that you're in. I could lose all control of my thought processes, spiarling downward, but when I started imagining shooting myself, I felt *better*. In this way, the research I did on suicide was also soothing. Instead of curling up in a ball on the floor, I could focus my mind on this subject, and this subject alone, and I would calm down and feel relief.
So it's a two-edged sword. The knowledge I gained on the Internet did enable my attempt. But being able to research that material made me feel better, better than I would have otherwise.
Final disclaimer: All happy people are more or less the same, but all depressed people are depressed in their own way. So this is my experience only. (Yes, I've been doing well for some time--thanks for asking!)
Re:Been there, tried that (Score:2)
Re:Been there, tried that (Score:3, Informative)
- Slicing wrists: damage to tendons
- Slicing the veins in armpit: takes ages to drain the blood and it's really freaky to see that blood gushing out of you...
- medicines: risks of overdose or not high enough dose, plus the potential to really damage something if you survive...
- plastic bag: uncomfortable, takes AGES, plus you look like an idiot...
- hanging: asphixy is not a way I'd like to die of...
- bullets: if you can get hold of a gun (not necessarily easy outside the US), let's get
has this even passed yet? (Score:2, Insightful)
that says to me that it's just legislation that will be introduced and hasn't become a law yet.
not that i claim any familiarity with the australian system of government, but here in the states when new legislation is introduced it's not that amazing, it's if it passes in the house and senate and passes the president's veto power that it becomes law...
can anyone shed further light?
If Trying to Kill Yourself is Illegal There (Score:5, Funny)
And if there's one thing that guy's taught us, it's that Australia is full of critters that will happily kill you if you just piss them off a little. It's probably much easier to kill yourself off there than it is here in the states (Although we also have our share of poisonous nasties.) Most of the methods you can find on the internet are much more pedestrian than "Walk down to the local river, get a drink and be eaten by a crocodile." Now THAT's a great way to go, eh? Just make sure it gets you by the head and not by a leg or something...
Re:If Trying to Kill Yourself is Illegal There (Score:3, Interesting)
I doubt you'll be given a choice in the matter.
Cheers
Stor
not clueless... (Score:2, Insightful)
They are just saying their citizens and coporations should not be promoting the material. It is not a difficult law to enforce. If company X is selling pills to kill yourself with, and providing instructions on how to use them, Australia will fine them.
Well... (Score:2)
I heard a comment from someone the other day, saying how if the state endorsed it, people would ask the elderly who are a burden to commit suicide. I suppose if its financial and the family is hurting, but damn...
On cases of cancer and such, if I was dieing and in pain, and with the outlaw of drugs that could help, one could be tempted...
Now imagine you need to commit suici
Your right to die? (Score:2, Insightful)
Ones right to live is the same right to die.
Responsiblity (Score:3, Insightful)
Suicide is not illegal in Australia (Score:5, Informative)
In related news... (Score:2)
Sigh. (Score:2)
It is incredible to see some of these people say, with a straight face, that such and such a law won't hinder free speech when it is kinda obvious. Let's take a quick look at this.
1. I am able to post x online without being fined.
2. If I post x online, I get fined.
Fucki
Suicide is legal in Australia (Score:5, Interesting)
Will this affect ISPs? (Score:2)
It is NOT illegal to commit suicide in Australia (Score:2, Informative)
from http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti52.pdf [aic.gov.au]
"In all jurisdictions, suicide is no longer a crime and, except in the Northern Territory, the crime of attempted suicide has also been abolished. It is, however, still an offence for a person to assist another person to commit suicide or to attempt to commit suicide"
No point fining them (Score:2)
Rich.
One ticket to Hull now please ...
Résumé (Score:4, Insightful)
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smell awful;
You might as well live.
--Dorothy Parker, 1926.
Japanese suicide clubs (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder how much of this action in AU is related to JP suicide clubs [bbc.co.uk]?
"In Japan, the internet has been blamed for a spate of group suicides which appear to have been arranged in online chat rooms."
It appears that often the people facilitating these suicides are in fact sadists, who have no intention themselves of carrying through a suicide, but instead derive perverse pleasure from being instrumental in the death of another. If a similar phenomenon exists in AU, it would give the authorities an opportunity to intervene--and based on the text of TFA, this appears closer to their intent.
Morbid curiosity (Score:3, Insightful)
Would some ausie enlighten me on how the former crime is prosecuted. Do they have special coffins with metal bars or something?
Death Penalty (Score:3, Funny)
So is it a capital offense to attempt to commit suicide? Does such an attempt automatically get you the death penalty?
Re:Suicide illegality rationalization (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Suicide illegality rationalization (Score:2)
In addition, planning a crime is illegal in sweden, but as suicide isn't a crime, planning for your own suicide isn't a crime naither...
Personally, I think suicide should be on the list of Human Rights.
Re:Suicide illegality rationalization (Score:2)
Re:Suicide illegality rationalization (Score:2)
Yes, this is exactly why so many countries made it illegal to have accidents. If accidentally cutting yourself with a knife, shooting yourself in the foot, or swerving on a patch of ice and hitting another car weren't punishable by strict fines or incarceration under the law, they
Re:Suicide illegality rationalization (Score:3, Funny)
First consider that (maybe I am being a bit simplistic here) federal legislation starts with the government. Then look at this picture [gg.gov.au]. Then consider that the federal leader is the short guy left of the middle up the front. Yes, the funny-looking one who doesn't quite qualify to enter a serious baldness contest. Yes, he's the captain of the team pictured.
Would you expect anything different?
Laws and "A Practical Guide to Suicide".... (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone sent the link to me a while back, interesting read.
Also, it is interesting to note that in Japan, if you commit suicide using the "jump in front of commuter train" method, your FAMILY gets the fines if you succeed (and you do if you fail). The fines consists of the clean up costs, any property damages you cause, and some amount to cover "the inconvience to other commuters" fine on top of it. This apparently works fairly well in Jap
Typo? (Score:2, Funny)
I presume you meant "please don't assume that our politicians are thinking"...
Re:If you are using the net.. (Score:2)
Re:If you are using the net.. (Score:2)
one [nireland.com]
two [hpbt.org]
three [wikimedia.org]
Re:If you are using the net.. (Score:2)
What's so painful about knocking out your garage wall with your car? *ba-dum tsssshhhh!*
Re:If you are using the net.. (Score:2)
Even if you cut your wrists vertically, the chances are the blood will clot before you actually die. Taking drugs that thin the blood and doing it in a warm bath will help, but your chances are still pretty slim. Even getting past that, each wrist, if done properly, will bleed a *lot*. Cutting the second wrist would be very difficult under those circumstances -- you can easily pass out and then wake up.
Cutting your throat from ear to ear certainly loses
Re:Illegal (Score:2)
Re:illegal to commit? (Score:2)
Please wait where you are for a police officer to take you into custody.
Re:Once someone has killed themselves (Score:2)
Messed up, I know, but this is coming from a place where somebody will hand you their medical bill or sue for their broken ribs after you save their life performing CPR on them.