Costa Rica May Criminalize VoIP 407
chia_monkey writes "Here's an interesting little tidbit about the 'free' Internet. Seems Costa Rica may make it a crime to make Internet-based phone calls. It would be a shame if this sets a precedent of setting legistlation that would seriously stunt the growth of these emerging technologies that should be making communication cheaper and easier, not harder and illegal."
Crime ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Where do you draw the line? (Score:4, Interesting)
Vonage over SSH? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Where do you draw the line? (Score:4, Insightful)
Furthermore, there is no such thing as unbiased. I believe that the 'unbiased technical people' you would have liked to have been consulted would actually have been biased towards unregulated VoIP. Just because you agree with them doesn't mean that they're unbiased.
Re:Not only GPRS (Score:3, Insightful)
Not just a crime... (Score:3, Interesting)
of the WTO and have small/fledgling national
industries to protect from unplanned for (and
unregulated) competition, you make it illegal.
You might say that Costa Rica has adopted the
very same measures that the USA's "**AA" have
implimented in the face of new media distribution
modes, and similar tactics that the big regional
USA phone companies have adopted (with big
government help) to protect them from government/
community WiFi competition.
That being said, it seem
Re:Not just a crime... (Score:2, Interesting)
What seems to be happeni
Not a crime; just a badly written article (Score:5, Insightful)
The real point of the article is that the Costa Rican national telephone company wants VOIP regulated as a service, like the other phone lines are. We are having the same debate in the United States. The phone company here was originally designed as a monopoly, and universal service meant subsidies. Find a way around the monopoly, and there's no way to fund the subsidies. So you either regulate it enough to collect taxes or do away with the phone service in rural areas (which is often the basis of internet service in those areas as well.)
Costa Rica has similar regulatory issues. So they're in the phase of "Hey, this ought to be regulated." The regulations are completely undefined as yet, so some reporter speculates that they could in some ludicrous limit case result in criminalizing VOIP and then mentions it in the headline, the lead line, and then precisely once in the actual body of the article.
Whereupon Slashdot copies the headline, and focuses the summary on it. Read into the rest of the article and you might find that most of the time when the Slashdot response to an article is "How could anybody be so incredibly stupid?" the answer is usually, "They're not, they've just been taken out of context."
It may well be that any regulation of VOIP is a bad idea, that the Internet wants to be free, and if it outcompetes the old regime then we'll have to come up with a new plan. In Costa Rica's case, if they lose too much tax money from POTS to VOIP, they'll have to raise taxes elsewhere. Perhaps they'd raise a sales tax or income tax. But talk of criminalizing VOIP strikes me as a hysterical response to a subject that requires actual thought.
Costa Rica has always had an army (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Costa Rica has always had an army (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Costa Rica has always had an army (Score:3, Interesting)
Panama/Paraguay? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Panama/Paraguay? (Score:2, Interesting)
Believe it or not they can still do it cheaper than the national phone company.
Belarus (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/19/belarus_bu
About Costa Rica (Score:3, Informative)
OK, everyone seems to have some wrong ideas about what kind of country Costa Rica is, so here's a little info from someone who's actually lived there.
CR is not communist, or poverty stricken. It is in fact the most stable and economically successful latin american country, yes, it beats Mexico and Brazil as well.
Most Costa Ricans have cellphones, and DSL internet access either at home, a library, or in the neighborhood internet cafe.
The country is democratic, and very pro-technology. Many US technolog
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Now, really, could you post some data to support such claims?
Mexico and Brazil may have lots of social problems - and maybe in this aspect it could be possible that Costa Rica had some better indexes. But as far as I have heard, it does not get even close when talking about GDP, market size, level of industrialization, native technology, universities, scientific work, just to name a few...
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't say CR is the most stable and economically successful latin american country...
That's just hilarious. Maybe central american country; and still, that's not something we should feel proud of.
Don't confuse the general situation of the country with the way people like to live. Sadly, we have adopted the american way of buy now, pay forever... But that doesn't mean everyone is wealthy...
And to say something about the topic, what else can you expect from a government controlled company that owns the monopoly on telecommunications and technology? It is true that a lot of people have cellphones, but that's a status symbol, you should be here to see the AWFUL service we get, both on TDMA and GSM.
Let alone talking about Costa Rica being pro-technology, that's just NOT true; only 6 months ago DLS started to be accessible and still the service is just below average.
I read this news on local newspaper a few days ago and I just laughed. Ignorance is a bliss.
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:reasons americans go to costa rica (Score:2, Informative)
Costa Rican Businesses (Score:2)
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the only place I disagree with you. Costa Rica is hardly like the States, nor even supports it. When Bush went on about the Coalition of the Willing, Costa Rica asked that their name be removed. Costa Rica has no army. They concentrate on making their own country better without meddling in the affairs of other countries.
The article states that the ICE is a monopoly, but that's how they keep things in check. In English, the ICE is the Costa Rican Institute of Elect
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:2, Informative)
That's odd. The Cold War has been over for 10+ years.
First, Second and Third world designations are NOT [nationsonline.org] economic designations! They were used during the Cold War to describe the various alliances and blocs. The "First World" was the US/Western Europe and anyone allied with them. The "Second World" was USSR/East Europe and sometimes China. The "Third World" was everyone else. Since most poorer nations had their own problems to worry abo
wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
The expression "tiers monde" dates back to 1952, and has been forged by demographer Alfred Sauvy, to designate poor countries, implying that the "tiers monde" is being despised and exploited just as the "tiers état" used to be.
See
http://www.linternaute.com/histoire/motcle/2923/a
Re:wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
But of course no one said that the English expression "third world" will always have the same meaning : the meaning of expressions evolves with time.
If you're right, then the couple "third world"/"tiers monde" should be added to the list of false cognates [about.com], like
actual/actuel
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, but the original post said (paraphrased) "Costa Rica has only been a first world country for 10 years". I guess my problem isn't so much that Third world = poor to most people, but that people have taken the First/Second/Third trichotomy (is that a word?) and forced a rich/poor dichotomy on top of it. If first = rich and third = poor.. where did second go? It just doesn't make sense, and rea
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:5, Informative)
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:2, Interesting)
When I had DSL in CR, I got it from Racsa in San Jose, the capital city. It's not fast DSL, but DSL it is. I had a friend of mine get DSL in her home so she could better communicate with other international parts of our company, and it seemed that Racsa is more inclined to get things done if you mention it's for business. The price was high by costa rican standards, but not unaffordable by individuals.
Re:About Costa Rica (Score:3, Informative)
You are smoking crack. I saw very few cellphones in this country -- even in San Jose (the most metropolitain city I visited). Internet in the home is way over the pay scale of most Costa Ricans. In San Jose, broadband does exist, but you pay for it. In most oth
it's not yet (Score:3, Informative)
sadly enough... (Score:5, Insightful)
similar to states that tax alcohol and it's a crime to bring (over a very limited qty) it into the state from other states.
eric
Re:sadly enough... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not a crime to bring over however much alcohol you like. You just have to pay the taxes. How do you think the CH_3CH_2OH made it into your state in the first place?
I'm assuming here that your local law (US?) is not totally insane
true enough, but (Score:3, Insightful)
eric
Re:sadly enough... (Score:2)
Interstate commerce be damned.
Great news from impoverished island... (Score:2, Insightful)
at least some verizon asshat didn't write that law. i'll take politicians writing stupid laws over corporate fascists any day.
Re:Great news from impoverished island... (Score:2)
Costa Rica is not particularly impoverished (at least compared to all of its neighbors), and it isn't an island.
Re:Great news from impoverished island... (Score:2, Informative)
Costa Rica is NOT an island.
Second: It's not at all impoverished, in fact it's flourishing.
For many years, the state owned infrstructure did benefit society. Cellular and telephone rates are affordable at local prices, if you can obtain them. Now, it's a make-work project, inefficient, top-heavy, and on the edge of being privatised.
Small step (Score:4, Insightful)
But hey, I'm not worried - I still have an acoustic modem somewhere in my house...
Re:Small step (Score:2)
As if one country could withstand change (Score:3, Interesting)
Thank you (Score:2)
You proved my theory that Canadians are idiots.
Re:As if one country could withstand change (Score:2, Insightful)
Good luck... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Good luck... (Score:2, Informative)
It depends of the new law.
In this moment is aready ilegal to use the ICE's data network for VoIP trafic because it competes with the ICE's voice network (ICE has a monopoly on voice trafic). However, the problem is not the personal use of it, the problem begins when you want to profit on it, because it would be unfair competence:
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
What? You thought "A penny for your thought" meant they wanted to pay you?
You thought your two cents worth was going to be a revenue stream rather than an expense?
You must be a terrorist.
Why do you hate Freedom?
Nationalised telephone company (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nationalised telephone company (Score:4, Interesting)
Can you say "Nothing to see here. Move Along"?
Re:Nationalised telephone company (Score:2, Interesting)
Illegal in South Africa till Feb 05 (Score:5, Interesting)
VOIP became legal on Feb 1005 only after the Telkom (national telco) regulator started to break up Telkom's monopoly.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Improvements to South African phone system (Score:2, Funny)
The South African system was made all the more robust by improvements that were forced on them just a few years before this by Y1K compliance.
Let me guess (Score:2)
Maybe the real reason? (Score:3, Interesting)
For a country that needs this income to build its hospitals, social infrastructure (yes and Army, corruption etc) it is a big blow.
If this is the reason I can actually support this. Despite what seem like the majority of the Slashdot crowd think, there is more to life that getting 'free' services from the Internet.
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2, Interesting)
Um, Costa Rica doesn't have an army. It's probably one of the least corrupt countries in Central America...
Not that banning VoIP is good idea or anything - just be careful about what you say (especially when you have no idea what you're talking about
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2)
Which is like being the least dead person in the cemetary.
Of course, I haven't been there in about 7-8 years so maybe things have changed.
Awsome vacation place, though, VoIP or no.
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2)
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2)
A very good friend of mine did her PhD on Costa Rica, so I've heard a bit about it over the years.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Maybe the real reason? (Score:2)
That's NOT the reason they want to do it. The national phone company monopoly has been doing badly for years, they employee too many people, are a national make-work project, and are on the verge of being privatized. This is just one more death-cry from a dying com
simpler solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:simpler solution (Score:2)
Good idea (Score:5, Funny)
Egypt did it first (Score:2, Informative)
Already the case here. (Score:5, Informative)
Min
Re:Already the case here. (Score:2, Informative)
Horray for capitalism! (Score:2)
Re:Horray for capitalism! (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean, isn't a state-run anything more socialist than capitalist, despite the fact that it's still working for money?
Re:Horray for capitalism! (Score:2)
BTW. A state isn't inherently capitalistic or socialistic.
Hopefully not a problem. (Score:2)
Some countries allready have people in jail. (Score:2)
Just Politics (Score:3, Insightful)
Costa Rica? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's Costa Rica for crying out loud. They're not capable of setting a global economic precedent except for maybe the price of coffee.
-S
Re:Costa Rica? (Score:2)
"something done or said that may serve as an example"
Why can this not serve as an example for other countries?
And in the US, it's municipal Wi-Fi (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, it's all about the telecom industry, both in the US, and abroad, trying to consolidate power, and shut out open access, whether it's data or voice.
Re:And in the US, it's municipal Wi-Fi (Score:2)
And what happens when you have municipal wifi and they ban it (along with a lot of other stuff) because it's not "community friendly" or it wastes too much bandwith?
Anyone looking at premium VoIP? (Score:2)
Many *cough* numbers in some magazines terminate in S.American countries... If everyone gets used to 'net based comms, free data exchange etc, how will these sex lines survive?
At least ISP support lines would still work
I have the word VoIP... just call it streaming audio.
ok.
Advantages of VoIP? (Score:2)
As a self-proclaimed geek, I've totally missed on the VoIP bandwagon. Other than the fact that VoIP is currently cheaper, what are the advantages for customers who choose VoIP vs. POTS.
I've thought about getting it, but just for the geekyness factor of it all and to save a few bucks but I wonder if I'm just missing something.
Re:Advantages of VoIP? (Score:2)
Costa Rica has Internet back? (Score:2, Insightful)
You'd think they'd have learned something from that about monopolies.
Brother-in-law Political System (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been to Costa Rica four or five times to visit friends. When I was there on my honeymoon fives years back, there were big protests because the government was about to hand the phone system over to the president's brother-in-law - or something like that.
At any rate, the Costa Rican political system tends to be pretty corrupt in the sense that those in power tend to give big favors to their friends in family. I'll bet something like this is going on.
Re:Brother-in-law Political System (Score:2)
Re:Brother-in-law Political System (Score:2, Flamebait)
oh wait................
Re:Brother-in-law Political System (Score:3, Interesting)
We're talking about the phone system in this very article. Do you see any connection...? Hmm...
What will this mean for Phil Hughes? (Score:3, Interesting)
Get the wirecutters! (Score:2)
Kinda like... (Score:3, Insightful)
Costa Rica is supposedly very free.. (Score:2)
Not different than amateur radio (Score:2)
I'm not sure
Words of a Costa Rica citizen (Score:2, Informative)
That company holds all the permissions to grant electricity, phone and internet access, and in fact, one of the
Wider issues (Score:2)
But it does raise some interesting questions. For example, the world currently pays a lot for (voice) telephone service; some places more than others, of course, but there's still a lot of revenue there.
What if all that traffic were to move over to IP? Lots of revenue lost, of course, but would the Internet cope at reasonable quality? Would it need lots more infrastructure to handle the extra traffic? If so, how does that get built
Telkom - yes!!! (Score:3, Informative)
For those of you that don't know the situation; Telkom is the only landline provider in South Africa, but also handily makes the rules deciding who can do what with any telecommunication business. Neat huh?
OK, I'm Costa Rican, Here's the Deal: (Score:3, Informative)
So what's happening is that there is a constitutionally mandated monopoly on telecommunications. What's happening that a bunch of old farts, the kind that have no fucking clue and are holding the country back, are figuring that VoiP would technically be in violation of said monopoly.
To be honest, it's amazing that there is such a big software industry in Costa Rica, considering that internet access is so crappy and regulated. A lot of people are trying to challenge the ICE monopoly, but it's hard going against the old guard. That's what Costa Rican nerds have to put up with.
Stealth Phone (Score:2)
I don't know the whole story... (Score:2)
And/or drug runners/dealers/czars are using VOIP todo their business... thus if they catch them using VOIP they can at least charge them for *something* i.e why the US government generally gets mobsters on stuff like tax evasion and not for cutting people in half with a chainsaw...
I live here and there is 1 telco (Score:5, Insightful)
They provide internet, phone landline and cell.
Just to give an idea, GSM network just ran out of free lines, waiting period for a landline in suburban (not off the grid) areas is 6+ months.
I am renting an office to have net, because at my place there is no landline, nor 2-way cable (so you need a modem with dial up and cable, the latter DL the phone for upstream comms)
Back to the topic: Costa Rica has ONLINE casinos, sportsbooks, bingo halls, and they ALL use VOIP.
Call centers use VOIP.
If you make an emergency call int he states and do not speek english, there is a chance, that the call is directed here to a translator OVER VOIP.
I use VOIP to talk to good ol' europe, since the minute rate is $1 + to e.g. Hungary, and almost 2$ the other way.
ICE people do not like to work. They like to strike, and every time they mention privatizing the company, they go to the street and there is no service (there is phone, but no customer service, so if a line breaks or whatever pain you have, you are fsckd)
Well but hey, there is no snowstorms here, just occasional quakes
Ahm why they won't put it thru? The casino industry gives 1000s of jobs to students, so do other companyes who USE VOIP.
I am not worried
Funny telcos (and not just the states ones) (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:C'mon people (Score:2)
Yes, but how would anti-trust laws help you against a state-owned communications monopoly?
Re:What's the problem? (Score:2)
You just can't justify it. Not by the numbers.
Second, you're placing too much faith in the human condition. See, people don't just go to wor...