Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Euro Patent Restart Demand Repeated by Parliament

Posted by Zonk on Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:50 PM
from the once-more-into-the-breach dept.
sebFlyte writes "ZDNet UK is reporting that the European Parliament's Conference of Presidents has ratified and repeated the demands of the Parliament for the computer-implemented inventions directive to be sent back to the drawing board, even though the Commission has refused to re-start it after previous demands. From the article: "It is not certain that the Commission will comply with the request of the Parliament, nor that it will use the opportunity to draft a good text ... The new Commission is not obliged to follow the Parliament's request and they might still try to keep all options open and ask the Council to adopt the agreement of last May without a new vote, so as to gain even more options for themselves."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Profit Anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LordPhantom (763327) on Thursday February 17 2005, @12:53PM (#11701938)
    FTA [i]Hugo Lueders, the director of public policy at pro-patent organisation CompTIA, is also unsure what will happen next. He contends that software patents are needed to ensure that the EU can keep to the goals set by the "Lisbon Agenda" --- that the EU will become the most competitive and dynamic knowledge-driven economy by 2010.[/i] Does that comment sound like: 1. Establish Software Patents 2. ??????? 3. Thriving and Inventive Computer Industry (ha!) 4. Profit! to anyone else?!?
      • Re:Profit Anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mOdQuArK! (87332) on Thursday February 17 2005, @06:40PM (#11706224)
        Actually, history indicates the exact opposite.

        The U.S. grew its industry rapidly by running roughshod over attempts by the European countries to control trade secrets & other forms of intellectual property. The U.S. wouldn't be where it is today economically if it had taken European whining about patents, copyright & such, seriously. It's only recently, as the primary economic superpower, that Americans suddenly think it's a good idea for everyone to let them control the flow of ideas & technology throughout the world.

        Software & business model patents are being used to crush competition, rather than provide any kind of innovation for society's benefit. True entrepreneurs make money by providing desired goods & services, not by getting laws passed which let them earn money through extortion.
  • Twats (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gowen (141411) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Thursday February 17 2005, @12:54PM (#11701946) Homepage Journal
    I consider myself a pro-European Brit, but the intransigence and power of the unelected Commision to act in the face of the elected Parliament makes me foam at the mouth like Norman Tebbit. Is it really so hard for them to see that those with a mandate should be sovereign?

    I want a close and strong European Union -- I just don't want this European Union.
    • Re:Twats (Score:5, Funny)

      by stupidfoo (836212) <strictfoo-ignorant AT yahoo DOT com> on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:14PM (#11702255) Homepage
      I think an oversight committee elected by members of Parliment to oversee the members of the unelected commission is clearly in order!
      • Re:Twats (Score:4, Funny)

        by AllUsernamesAreGone (688381) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:36PM (#11702574)
        Or, forget about employing yet more bloody civil servants and change the rules so that when Parliament says something the commission has no choice in the matter.

        Except that isn't going to happen because civil servants are the very last people to actually let politicians influence government. ... And people thought Yes Minister was cynical...
  • by ackthpt (218170) * on Thursday February 17 2005, @12:57PM (#11702011) Homepage Journal
    I'd patent Paper-Shuffling, foot-dragging and obfuscation, but I see there's Prior Art.

    The players:

    European Parliament's Conference of Presidents

    the Commission

    the Parliament

    The new Commission

    the Council

    Ok, I'm lost. Though I think I can see why nothing's happening.

    It reminds me of a The Committee Game someone wrote on our PDP11 about 25 years ago. (The committee forms to form a plan of action to deal with the nefarious Kally Spaeth, but first they head up to McDonalds for refreshments in the arcane Dodge Dart, and generally it's a lot of running around without actually doing anything about the nefarious Kally Spaeth. I think it was in parody.)

  • by delta_avi_delta (813412) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (yhprum.evad)> on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:02PM (#11702076)
    ...when a body which purports to be democratic does not listen to those who represent the people. We have spoken, we have shouted, we have sent you nasty emails. If the bill gets carried, it will indicate that the European Union is designed to give people the appearance of having democratic power with the parliament, while the real power resides with commission, who seem emminantly influenced by big business.
    • Anti-EU people take this example to denigrate the integration process, but in fact it shows that MORE integration is necessary.

      For instance the parliament still has little power, but without it this directive would have been passed months ago. Without EU at all, it would have been passed years ago under pressure from US-based megacorporations.

      I'd say that even though the situation is dangerous, it shows that the European parliament is perfectly doing its job and representing the will of the European people, and counterbalancing the ivory power that is the Commission. In particular, kudos to Michel Rocard, former French Prime Minister and one of the main forces in this legislative fight. A friend of mine met him when he was just starting to discover the issue; and he was pleasantly suprised to find how he listened to anti patent arguments and quickly acquired knowledge and decided to act.
  • OK, question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:07PM (#11702150)
    If the commish ignored the last demand, why would they pay attention to this one? Or is this just for the parliament to make their objections absolutely clear?

    Also, question: Is the EU parliament in the end going to be, or are they right now, as pissed off about this as Slashdot seems to be? I mean, whether the parliament cares about patents or not, you'd think. In the U.S. if a branch of government got outright snubbed like this they'd probably wind up doing everything in their power to kill the idea of software patents forever, even if they didn't really care about software patents, just out of spite
    • Re:OK, question (Score:5, Informative)

      by iabervon (1971) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:53PM (#11702817) Homepage Journal
      IIRC, the Parliament can dissolve the Council (or Commission?) with a vote of no confidence. They obviously wouldn't do that just on a whim, but they might if the other bodies ignore repeated demands from different portions of the Parliament.

      This is a bit like the US legislature. They can pass laws, but the Justice Department can fail to enforce them (or the FCC can ignore them, etc.). If the Executive Branch department fails to respond, they can complain to the President, who can fire people. If the President fails to do anything, they can impeach him. This is, in fact, what happened to Andrew Johnson (backwards; he fired an executive for doing what Congress wanted), although he was acquitted by one vote.

      So this is another step with which the Parliament can try to exert influence on the other branches without actually going all the way and using their actual power, which would be enormously disruptive to everything.

      Note that the Parliament can also reject the directive on the second reading, but it's difficult and depends on enough MEPs actually showing up that day; if Parliament complains enough beforehand, the Commission is more likely to think that enough MEPs will show up to the vote to kill it, and the less interested they are in pushing the Council's text through (the Commission's mandate is to get some directive passed on software patents, because the current situation is broken, and their job is to get broken situations resolved in some way or other). If it's going to get killed in the second reading, they would rather save face and restart the process; if it's not going to get killed in the second reading, they want to get it done.
  • What the ?????? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Asprin (545477) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {dlonrasg}> on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:10PM (#11702197) Homepage Journal

    Does the EU even *have* a government? This is so confusing! Motions that can be executed with no vote, organizational groups that do what they want regardless of the vote? What gives? It's like the thing was designed *by*, bureucrats *for* bureaucrats, and voting is just a technicality.

    Can somebody help to make me less ignorant and point me at an online EU-civics 101 tutorial that outlines how the EU government is organized, what are the responsibilities of the major components and a general overview of the rules?

    Please?
    • Re:What the ?????? (Score:5, Informative)

      by I confirm I'm not a (720413) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:20PM (#11702350) Journal

      It's like the thing was designed *by*, bureucrats *for* bureaucrats

      Well, and I don't mean this in a bad-way, that's pretty much how the EU was set-up - or, more accurately, that's how the fore-runner(s) of the EU were set-up. Six European nations decided to have a coal and steel agreement. One thing led to another, over a long period, and with other nations joining at semi-regular intervals. The decisions were taken by career politicians and bureaucrats. It's comparatively recent that we've even had a parliament, and still more recent that we've actually been permitted to elect the members of said parliament.

      Re: EU-civics-101. I'll second that. We - even those of us in Europe - desperately need to know how the hell our continent is run.

    • Re:What the ?????? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:39PM (#11702613)
      The EU explains itself:

      http://europa.eu.int/institutions/index_en.htm [eu.int]
      Take a look at the dropdown box in the upper right side of your browser window for different languages.
    • Re:What the ?????? (Score:4, Informative)

      by henni16 (586412) on Thursday February 17 2005, @02:03PM (#11702961)
      Does the EU even *have* a government?
      No, At least not a democratic one.

      It's like the thing was designed *by*, bureucrats *for* bureaucrats
      That's essentially true.
      Also, there's the parliament that is
      a) a nursing home for politicians that some national party can't get rid off because of prior achievements or
      b) has to move out of sight for a couple of years because of national affairs.
      c) Also "parliament" sounds somewhat democratic; but don't give them real power because otherwise they might stop you from getting things done -
      like introducing software patents against Europe's interests.


      and point me at an online EU-civics 101 tutorial that outlines how the EU government is organized
      This [dadalos-europe.org] looks promising (from the "International UNESCO Education Server for Civic, Peace and Human Rights Education").
      Also, there is a very short overview [eu.int] on the(?) EU site.
  • EU Law Trails? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:10PM (#11702199) Homepage Journal
    Would someone please clarify the players in EU lawmaking, and their role in the process? America at least has floated cartoons [school-house-rock.com] making our quaint process clear to naive schoolchildren (of any age). Where do members of the following bodies come from: election by people per nation / across the EU; or sent as representatives of national governments; or selected by the EU government itself? Where do the laws/regulations/rules/treaties/agreements they produce come from: national governments; EU government subdivisions; independent citizens; overseas committees like the US; nongovernment foreign or European policy organizations? And where do the rules they produce go: to another body for decision, to national governments for ratification, or just into effect as law?

    The players:
    - EU Parliament
    - EU Commission
    - EU Council
    - Any others (like, eg, some kind of "EU Parliament/Council Reconciliation Committe")?
  • by hazee (728152) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:10PM (#11702203)
    The BBC coverage [bbc.co.uk] of this issue states that "The open source movement, of which Linux is the flagbearer, eschews notions of property and instead allows anyone to examine and tinker with the inner workings of software."

    As a BBC license payer, I'm incensed that they could be spreading such FUD. Since when has Linux "eschewed the notion of property"?

    Just because the open source community is vehemently opposed to software patents, doesn't mean that they don't support the "notion of property". Without such notions as copyright for instance, the GPL would be impossible.
    • by hazee (728152) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:24PM (#11702410)
      My complaint to the BBC:

      As a BBC license payer, I'm appalled by the factual inaccuracy in the "EU software patent law faces axe" article.

      The statement is made that "The open source movement, of which Linux is the flagbearer, eschews notions of property and instead allows anyone to examine and tinker with the inner workings of software."

      This is nonsense, verging on the libellous. The open source movement has no such stance. Even minimal fact checking would quickly reveal that the Gnu Public License, under which much of today's open source software, including Linux, is released, depends fundamentally on the protections and rights granted by copyright.

      The concept that the open source movement seeks to destroy any sense of property is precisely the sort of scare story being pushed by large computer manufacturers in their attempt to railroad the software patents directive through the European parliament.

      I expect better from a supposedly neutral and unbiased news organisation.
  • EU structure (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bfields (66644) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:12PM (#11702232) Homepage

    Conference of Presidents, Council, Commission, Parliament.... For the poor confused Americans among us, could somebody draw us the European equivalent of the "how a bill becomes law" flow chart? I'm completely lost.

    --Bruce Fields

    • by Mr_Icon (124425) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:34PM (#11702543) Homepage
      Conference of Presidents, Council, Commission, Parliament.... For the poor confused Americans among us, could somebody draw us the European equivalent of the "how a bill becomes law" flow chart? I'm completely lost.

      Dear sir:
      Thank you for your interest in the political structure of the European Union! To better accommodate your request, we have set up a comission who will meet and discuss the best possible way to handle your inquiry. The committee will hold its first meeting whenever the participating local councils meet to select the representatives needed for the first meeting of the committee.

      With kindest regards,
      The helpdesk committee

  • by Husgaard (858362) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:23PM (#11702395)
    I think this is one of the worst cases showing the democratic problems in the EU.

    Nobody wanted this in the first place - except patent lawyers, patent offices and a few large software companies.

    Before the directive was proposed by the European Commission, software patents were rejected twice by governments at international diplomat conferences on the change of the European Patent Convention.

    Before the directive was proposed the European Commission held a public hearing. 91% of those responding were against software patents. 47% of the rest were patent lawyers and patent offices.

    When the European Commission proposed the directive they sent out a press release saying the directive was to make software less patentable (liars!).

    The only elected institution in EU is the European Parliament. Here the proposed directive was amended to not allowing unlimited patentability of all software and business metods.

    Later the European Counsil amended the directive again, undoing most of the amendments the the Parliament did.

    And now the European Commission and the Counsil (both non-elected, but appointed) are pressing to go through with the directive, completely ignoring the rights of the European Parliament.

  • An EU primer (Score:4, Informative)

    by tigre (178245) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:35PM (#11702557)
    As an ignorant American, I found this description of the various EU institutions [eu.int] very helpful. Interesting to note that the Parliament can dismiss the Commission if it desires to do so, and it would be interesting to see this happen, or at least have the threat of it issued to enforce Parliament's request/demand.
    • by NiceGeek (126629) on Thursday February 17 2005, @12:55PM (#11701963)
      no because the GPL'ed software is copyrighted not patented. Not the same thing.
    • by SmokeHalo (783772) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:01PM (#11702064)
      There's a difference between a patent and a copyright. Berkeley Labs [lbl.gov] has a nice "noob" summary for people like me. From there:
      ...patent protection can apply to the method or process. Remember that copyright protection does not protect the method, but the expression of the method. Patent law, on the other hand, can protect the method as well.
    • by k98sven (324383) on Thursday February 17 2005, @01:54PM (#11702836) Journal
      Making a 'commercial product' out of something GPL-licensed doesn't 'negate' the GPL in any way.

      The GPL does not make any distinction between 'commercial' or 'non-commercial' distribution. Any and all distribution must follow the terms of the GPL. Commercial or not doesn't enter the picture.

      Don't you know there are commercial linux distributions out there?

      And patents and copyrights are completely different forms of protection. You can't patent music. But that doesn't mean it isn't protected by copyright.