DVDCCA Sues Maker of Luxury DVD Jukebox
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Dec 08, 2004 04:41 PM
from the cut-off-nose-spite-face dept.
from the cut-off-nose-spite-face dept.
McSpew writes "The DVD Copy Control Association has decided to sue Kaleidescape for violating its CSS license. Kaleidescape's crime? They make a super-high-end (~$27k) DVD jukebox system that caches DVD movies onto a server (3.3TB of disk space). Kaleidescape says they've complied with the terms of their CSS license and they're considering countersuing. I want one, but I'm not a pro athlete, rapper or movie star, so I'll probably have to roll my own."
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Legitimate uses forbidden now? (Score:5, Interesting)
Note: I'm using 9G average, figuring on the odd 2 disc set balancing out the typical 7G on a disc.
Re:Legitimate uses forbidden now? (Score:4, Informative)
As i read the article, the target is people who violate the license agreement they signed, not their customers.
Re:Legitimate uses forbidden now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legitimate uses forbidden now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legitimate uses forbidden now? (Score:3, Insightful)
It could be used in a multi-user houshold, but there
Multiple copies (Score:5, Funny)
They just need a different license (Score:5, Insightful)
If they had, they could have made a seperate, more restrictive, more expensive license.
Shooting themselves in the foot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless of the legality of the suit, the DCCA seems to be suing a company that caters to the most loyal DVD purchasers in the world. Such a misguided move can only have negative effects upon the DVD industry.
Re:Shooting themselves in the foot? (Score:5, Funny)
Not at all. They're simply taking business lessons from Darl McBride.
All my DVDs are "cached" too (Score:5, Interesting)
Have I exercised fair use? Definitely. Have I broken some laws? Probably. But I'm not going to give up the fair use as a result.
And yeah, I should post this anonymously, in case the MPAA reads Slashdot comments, but dammit, we've gotta stand up!
Re:All my DVDs are "cached" too (Score:3, Informative)
The term fair use is a legal term. If you have exercised fair use in your copying DVD's to your RAID, then by definition, you
Exact Copy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Exact Copy? (Score:5, Informative)
Kaliededscape Server [kaleidescape.com]
Been drooling over one of these since they were announced... pity that our liticious society no is treading on fair use AFTER issuing a license to do exactly what they're suing over.
jdepew
You're not alone (Score:5, Funny)
Dude! I think they roll their own too:
Ricky Williams [mpp.org]
Snoop Dog [usatoday.com]
Woody Harrelson [mapinc.org]
Re:All college drop-outs, and Bill too (Score:4, Interesting)
Computers:
Bill Gates (Microsoft) dropped out of Harvard, 1976
Steve Jobs (Apple, NeXT, Pixar) left Reed College in Portland, Oregon, after 1 semester
Steve Wozniak (with Jobs, founded Apple Computer)
Lawrence Ellison (Oracle Computer)
Michael Dell (Dell Computer) dropped out of the University of Texas
Other Business:
David Geffen (Geffen Records, Dreamworks SKG) flunked out of University of Texas, Austin, AND Brooklyn College, NY
H Wayne Huizenga (Blockbuster Video millionaire, owner of Miami Dolphins, Florida Panthers and Florida Marlins) attended Calvin College, Grand Rapids, Michigan, for 3 semesters
Ted Turner (media mogul) -kicked out, I hear!
Ron Popeil (tv huckster, RONCO)
William Hanna (Hanna-Barbera)
To see the complete list, go to http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/7734/cdoaa.h
from the Kaleidescape FAQ (Score:5, Informative)
A: Most DVDs are protected by the Content Scramble System ("CSS"), a method used to encrypt the video and audio data. Manufacturers of legitimate DVD playback products must obtain a license from the DVD Copy Control Association (the "DVD CCA") to remove CSS encryption. Kaleidescape has obtained such a license, and Kaleidescape scrupulously adheres to its required procedures and restrictions. For example, when playing back DVD content, the System only allows the audio and video outputs permitted by the CSS License Agreement. The System's analog video outputs are further protected by certain Macrovision technology, which was obtained pursuant to a separate license from Macrovision Corporation. The CSS License Agreement does not prohibit the copying of CSS-protected DVD data into memory or onto a hard disk. However, in order to comply with the CSS License Agreement, any such copying must be done without exposing certain types of DVD data (keys or unscrambled audio/video data) on "user-accessible buses," such as the PCI bus in a personal computer. The Kaleidescape System complies with this restriction by virtue of being a closed system comprised of proprietary hardware and software that Kaleidescape designed from the ground up with content security as a major design objective.
Return to Top
Q: Can I share movies loaded on my Kaleidescape System with other users or other homes?
A: The Kaleidescape System is designed and licensed solely for use in a single-family dwelling. Kaleidescape's security architecture prevents movies from being accessed or transmitted over the Internet, or to computers inside or outside of the home. The movies on a Server are only accessible to Kaleidescape Movie Players that are attached to the same Ethernet LAN.
$27,000 for a 3.3TB system?? (Score:5, Informative)
Hardware breakdown
Server:
Case and dual power supplies ($500)
Mobo + Processor + RAM ($600)
DVD Drive ($50)
3Ware RAID-5 12-port card ($800)
12 400GB Seagate SATA Drives ($3600) (10 data, 1 parity, 1 hot spare) for 4TB.
Total: $5550 + SH + Taxes
Client:
Shuttle SFF box ($300)
CPU, RAM ($300)
40GB HD ($70)
DVD Drive ($50)
RF or IR keyboard/mouse ($70)
Total: $790 for each client
So I'm thinking the DVDCCA license is REALLY expensive if they charge $27,000 per unit.
I do too (Score:5, Funny)
Just make sure you don't get too exotic with chemical-dipping or cross-breeding of the commoddity product. I've heard that the formeldahyde can do nasty stuff to the safety factor and cross-pollination can introduce impurities in the final product. And try not to use bleached papers too because the chemicals released could cause damage.
A quote to note (Score:5, Insightful)
I had to read that a couple times just to make sure that I was seeing what I was seeing. The CSS system was explicitly made to prevent people from exercising fair use backups of their legally purchased DVDs? I thought it was to prevent piracy? Moreover, after paying all those congressmen all that money, they just turn a cold shoulder to their darling, the DMCA.
Kinda seems lazy on their part. At least they could properly cite the corrupt, consumer-hostile law they explicitly created to castrate fair use.
Easiest Target... (Score:4, Insightful)
Seen these and they are a joke (Score:5, Informative)
These units are pretty damn cool. I say units plural because you need three components. 1) Ripper 2) Storage/Server 3) Player
They all look really sleek, black cases with blue lighting. So as the SoCal sales rep was demo'ing the units, I was a bit confused why they seperated the ripper and server, the rep responded with "Many of our clients would prefer to have a slimmer component in their library or den and the server can be in the basement." What? The server is the size of a rackmount case and the ripper is a little bit smaller. Why not save some money and combine them? I asked how much the units cost and for a 1 room set up with 1.5 TB storage was around $27,000. A few people started laughing, and a few others just got up and walked out.
Why so expensive? Well for starters they include something like 50 DVDs already preloaded, which of course you are already paying for, but have no choice in what is preloaded other than 2-3 different packages. You can't buy the unit without the pre-loads. Also, the company decided to design the OS from scratch! Linux would be perfect for something like this, but nope, they said they've spent years developing a proprietary OS specifically for this unit. Stupid decision.
While demo'ing the unit, the rep had a difficult time browsing around, like he'd never used one before! There were also some noticable bugs in the GUI too that one of the company engineers had a difficult time working around. We sometimes sat there for 5-10 minutes while they sorted out these issues. It was really unbelievable that they were charging this insane amount for a unit I could build for around $1,000. I'm in IT sales and this guy was a prety bad salesman so I was shocked that they put him in charge of what should be the territory that has 90% of their sales, Southern California.
In speaking with many other companies showing off their latest media centers, PVRs, etc..., I saw some pretty impressive ones well priced too. Speaking with their reps, Kaliedescape was apparently the joke of the expo. They loved laughing and joking about that company.
Bottom line is it was a cool unit, but waaay over-priced as other have noted before me. What makes it even worse is the reps at the expo included their main sales reps and some engineers, who were trying to sell us to be dealers, were brutal. So I'm not sure what that says about the company as a whole, but it is probably not a good thing. I don't see any way this company survives unless they get a ton of athletes/movie stars buying them left and right. At this point, they've apparently only sold a few dozen and its been on the market for I believe about a year. He seemed rather proud of that but making probably $5,000 per system, that isn't going to cut it to support an entire company.
To answer a question I saw earlier about what's stopping the user from renting blockbuster movies to be ripped and returned. Nothing is stopping them. I asked that same question and the rep snobbishly laughed and explained that their clients don't rent movies, they buy them. Which is probably true. I also asked about how this is legal for them to do, and they said it took years of getting the movie indutry's backing, but they were finally able to do it. Looks like that might not have been the case after all. Now their clients all can be sued. Probably won't happen, but with the MPAA, you never know.
I'm an avid anti-*AA person (DVDCCA is close enough). But in this case, I really don't care. I think it's funny actually. I'll laugh if they sue this company in to bankruptcy. They're going to die off anyways, why not speed up the process.
Re:Seen these and they are a joke (Score:4, Informative)
While demo'ing the unit, our sales rep (Jody) was using the IR controller that I provided for him for the first time. It was a mistake on my part as he wasn't familiar with it. Additionally, I had set up the network in the room with a router that was failing. This difficult circumstance (exacerbated by the very short time we had to set up) led to a poor technology demo. If you noticed, I rebooted the router, re-acquired an IP address and the demo was functioning again. I was sitting in the back of the room for most of the demo and not a single person walked out.
We wrote our own OS from scratch because other available OS's (such as Linux) did not meet our needs from either a technical or a legal standpoint. This is not necessarily to say that Linux would not be up to the task, but the legal requirements of the GNU may be incompatible with other licenses that we require, and it would be difficult if not impossible to comply with the DVD CCA's CSS license agreement using a general-purpose operating system. Additionally, it did not take us "years" to create our own OS.
As the only engineer who attended EH Expo, I apologize if I came across as being "brutal". I'm passionate about this product, and sometimes that passion comes across too strong. Many others feel this passion as well, as we've sold hundreds, not just "a few dozen" units.
Ian Epperson
Software Engineer
Kaleidescape, Inc.
Re:The problem (Score:4, Insightful)
The short answer: nothing. But that doesn't mean that these "DVD jukeboxes" should be outlawed, since the *potential* for abuse is not good enough grounds to make something illegal.
To offer an anaolgy: Knives can be used to commit murder as easily as they can be used for legitimaate uses (say, to chop vegetables.) But no one is suggesting that we make knives illegal, since their benefit in legal use far outweighs the danger that someone might use them to stab another person. In the same way, the benefit that hardware or software that can be used to backup DVD's has in the realm of fair use far outweighs the harm that can come from a few lazy nitwits renting movies from Blockbuster and making copies of them.
Re:The problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The $27K pricetag??
You're right though. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, they're probably moving to block the precedent before so
Re:The problem (Score:3, Interesting)
What software is that? Surely you don't mean DeCSS [lemuria.org], they dropped that battle. And there's absolutely nothing stopping you from ripping a DVD to your hard drive now, a