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A Background of a 'Background Checker' 277

Posted by Hemos from the or-dirt-digger dept.
pamri writes "The Times of India profiles Jay Patel, of Abika, a firm that specializes in background checks, personality profiles, satellite or aerial Photos of any location besides other services in the US. It is now venturing into other countries including Canada and India. Abika is already facing protests from Canadian Privacy groups for breaching the Canadian Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act"
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A Background of a 'Background Checker' More

A Background of a 'Background Checker'

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  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:04AM (#11007803)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Personality profile? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So.. How're your tropical fish doing..? :)

    • Re:Personality profile? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:08AM (#11007846)
      And that's exactly what companies do when they interview you. I have personally had three interviews and found that typically *after* you have the interview a Google referrer shows up in your logs from the interviewing company.

      I know one guy on IRC that interviewed with a company and they spent a good amount of time passing around the link to his gallery (mostly pertaining to the pictures of the large gauges in his ears).

      One interviewer checked my site before I came in (and I knew it) and he said that they didn't hire pot smokers. He assumed I was a pot smoker because I was a Grateful Dead fan.

      Just remember that you may or may not be hired due to interpretations of your "web presence" regardless of whether or not it's actually how you live your life.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:21AM (#11007971)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Seriously, who the hell have you been interviewing for??

          I would assume he applied somewhere where they actually take some effort in their hiring decisions. What he described is not uncommon.

          -Aaron
      • One interviewer checked my site before I came in (and I knew it) and he said that they didn't hire pot smokers. He assumed I was a pot smoker because I was a Grateful Dead fan.

        Did you respond that it was fine since you never work for people who beat their wives anyway?

        -ben
      • I have personally had three interviews and found that typically *after* you have the interview a Google referrer shows up in your logs from the interviewing company.

        How do you draw the connection? You have a web site? And Google sends you someone, so you assume some connection between that and recent job interview? And, how many job interviews have you had recently?

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re:Personality profile? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by abysmilliard ( 557352 ) <graye AT livejournal DOT com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:44AM (#11008211) Homepage Journal
        This is one incident where being named Jones makes me happy.

        I can never find myself on Google, even with my full name. Sometimes not even with the city I'm in.

        All those years bemoaning the mundanity of my name, and it turns out it may someday become my greatest defense against the All-Seeing Eye of Google

        • Re:Personality profile? (Score:2, Interesting)

          by stevey ( 64018 )

          I come top when you search google for my name [google.com].

          My website has images of my tattoos [steve.org.uk], graphic mentions of my body piercings, and a lot of free software [steve.org.uk].

          I'm happy if people rule me out on the ground of piercings/tattoos whatever. At the end of the day the kind of environment where those things are unaceptable (no matter how discriminatory they are) I'm not going to want to work.

          I think that my achievements [gnump3d.org] stand on their own technical merits.

          Hopefully somebody who's looking for a Debian Administrator [debian-adm...ration.org] woul

      • "One interviewer checked my site before I came in (and I knew it) and he said that they didn't hire pot smokers. He assumed I was a pot smoker because I was a Grateful Dead fan"

        Sounds like a case of slander and/or deflamation of character to me. There are very strict rules about what can be said/asked in an interview (or on the job, or when firing, etc), and they are enforced pretty seriously. I know of one person who actually got in a little bit of trouble for giving a negative reference for an old employ
    • Hell, Google will do a damn good job of that. Hundreds of USENET posts and forum posts and website things, you can find most of my life out there on big ol' web.....

      Actual conversation:
      "Dad, did you write something about masturbation on the web a long time ago?"

      "What? No! Waitaminute, yes. Not on the web, on a newsgroup. But it was just a metaphor! It was about intellectual masturbation."

      "My friends think you're so cool!"

      Who knew when we were writing that stuff 15 years ago that it would be around FO

    • Permanent record (Score:5, Funny)

      by Jakhel ( 808204 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:33AM (#11008084)
      Forget google, what about all those times in elementary, middle, and high school when teachers told us that "this will go on your permanent record"? I guess they really WEREN'T bullshitting us after all. :(

    • Re:Personality profile? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Inda ( 580031 ) <slash.20.inda@spamgourmet.com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @12:00PM (#11008395) Journal
      RE: R. E. Bloomfield Personality Profile

      Hi! Remember me? Remember when we robbed the local 24hr garage? I still think about the blood pouring from that blind old aged pensioner in the wheelchair. I thought her head was going to pop when you stamped on it for the third time!

      Did you ever get away with the drug smuggling operation you were running? I told the police that you were the lowest on the ladder - I think they bought it. I didn't read any newspaper stories so I'm guessing you're OK..?

      Who would have thought that, after all these years, I'd find you through Google.

      How's the job hunting going?

  • My Fortress of Solitude (Score:4, Funny)

    by 10101001011 ( 744876 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:04AM (#11007804) Homepage
    Of Ice, Snow and the Eskimo (Inuit) is finally succumbing to being invaded by Americans (for flu vaccine, for our natural resources, and now for our privacy). Oh great, we get to become the 52nd State!

    (Iraq is 51st ;) )

  • Recourse (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Savant-Ben ( 829204 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:05AM (#11007810)
    People may be shouting about it, but what international laws prevent this? Espionage? Isn't that for state bodies though.

    • Re:Recourse (Score:2, Informative)

      by 10101001011 ( 744876 )
      It isn't necessarily INTERNATIONAL laws that prevent this, rather it is national laws that keep tabs on it. In Canada in any case we have the Privacy Act which basically means people cannot keep your personal information without your consent. Granted, I am doubtful there is a clause that says:

      All font point sizes must exceed size -1...
    • Makes you wonder who owns the satellite they're spying with.

  • Outsourcing Privacy. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:05AM (#11007812)
    "It is now venturing into other countries including Canada and India. Abika is already facing protests from Canadian Privacy groups for breaching the Canadian Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act"

    So in other words. Privacy (getting around) is being outsourced.

    Welcome to the Brave New World. Hope everyone brought an antacid?

    • Re:Outsourcing Privacy. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:11AM (#11007876)
      Who cares. Our credit card companies have more information about us than you can imagine.

      • I have no:
        Driver's License
        Credit Card
        Valid Bank Account

        The ONLY two sources that have any sizable information on me are the government due to birth records and social insurance number (which I might add cannot be easily linked to my current address).

        Face it, I have no need to worry about my privacy; my life on the other hand, could use some serious pyschiatric evaluation.
        • Yeah, but if you ever need to drive to the airport and get on a plane, you're screwed...
        • Oh how I love our Data Protection Act in the UK ;) It is illegal for any personal information to be shared between companies (and even divisions of government) without a good reason, that has been ok'd by the subject first - that's right, the Police are not allowed to get your Health records unless it's either a criminal investigation or they have your permission - they can't look "just in case", and neither can anyone else...

  • This was bound to happen (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Large Bogon Collider ( 815523 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:06AM (#11007822)
    Since they are not a Canadian enitiy, they are not bound by Canadian laws. As such, they are not accountable to any but likely much less strict Indian laws. So how does one deal with this? Either 1) Make whomever uses the service (in Canada) be liable, 2) enact international laws via UN or such, or 3) stick head in ground and hope problems go away. This is another problem that comes with being a global community.

    • Re:This was bound to happen (Score:5, Informative)

      by 10101001011 ( 744876 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:10AM (#11007864) Homepage
      I am not sure I understand what you are saying; the Canadian Privacy Act forces ALL corporate entities to destroy any personal data, regardless of where your main office is. If they intend to merely profile Canadians for their business venture, then they would be liable to any laws that are imposed on people conducting business in Canada that are from outside the country.
    • This person does not have privileged access to information about me. He is just collecting what is out there. This is just a snow storm in a teapot. You can sue if you are being defamed.

    • Re:This was bound to happen (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:34AM (#11008099)
      Are you a a lawyer? I'm not. But I am a Canadian law student. So I probably know more about the law, particularly Canadian law, than 99% of the posters on this board. Which isn't saying much, I admit.

      That said, with respect, you're very wrong.

      As a matter of law, you can always bring a claim against a foreign defendant in your own jurisdiction. The threshold issue will be whether your jurisdiction is the appropriate venue to pursue the claim.

      Incidentally, I don't think the problem is so much PIPEDA as defamation. If someone publishes inaccurate and defamatory information about me, I can sue their pants off, whether I'm in Canada or the US. But I'd probably want to do it in Canada, since US libel laws are pretty defendant-friendly.

      If you succeed, however, you'd have to enforce the judgment in the defendant's jurisdiction, which could be problematic.

      Incidentally, although the Times of India is profiling this fellow, the company is based in Wyoming (or so claims their WHOIS record). One would go after the corporate person, I would think, so at the very least, people can sue the corp under Wyoming/US law.

      If, for any reason, you think I'm full of it, then note that Americans regularly sue Canadians in American courts. Right now there's a great case about a junkyard owner in Virginia suing CIBC (one of Canada's largest banks) in negligence for mistakenly sending faxes containing the bank's customers' information to his business.

      However, IANAL. None of the foregoing is legal advice.
      • I think the principle is that unless there is a good reason not to allow it, everybody should be able to petition their courts when they are treated unjustly. After all, their local courts are the ones which they would tend to trust to judge their case fairly (since they comply with local views of right and wrong and civil rights).

        When a sensitive issue of diplomacy is involved, the local state department or equivalent may file briefs with the court to address these issues as well. Once a judgement is ma
    • Oooooooooooooh ooooh I know I know, 3!
      Do I win?

  • Video (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I actually remember that the CBC did a piece on this topic. Here's the video. [worldonline.nl]

  • he just doesn't get it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <tuxette&gmail,com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:09AM (#11007848) Homepage Journal
    Patel though sees it differently. The root cause of insecurity and intolerance in this world, he argues, is that we know so little about each other. If everyone knew everything about everyone else, or at least had access to such information, there would be less problems. Besides, why try and hide things, when it is becoming harder and harder to do so?

    Perhaps the reason why we know so little about each other is that people feel the need to sneak around and dig up dirt on others and then use that information against them? If you truly wanted to know more about someone, then open your mouth and ask that someone.

    • Re:he just doesn't get it (Score:4, Interesting)

      by The Cydonian ( 603441 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:27AM (#11008027) Homepage Journal
      If you truly wanted to know more about someone, then open your mouth and ask that someone.
      Heheh. I speak as an Indian of course, but I believe this is more a cultural thing than anything else; somehow, as the Brit-born Indian author Ruskin Bond puts it, being nosey is a sign of friendship among Indians. You can immediately notice it if you, say, enter an intra-city bus in India; you get scanned from head to toe by everyone around. Most international travellers get spooked by that, but really, curiousity is, apparently, a sign of friendship.

      Of course, intra-bus cultural nuances get complicated once you extrapolate them to the Internet and get professional about all this snooping.

      • I don't care if someone scans me up and down when I travel. I do care when some stranger digs up all kinds of information about me and then confronts me with it. Especially when that information is used to paint a very incorrect picture of me.

  • how much longer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wcitechnologies ( 836709 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:09AM (#11007849)
    How much longer will it be until we have a worldwide "people" database? How long until it has 6.x billion entries?

    I hate to be the one running around with a tin foil hat here, but I don't like this idea one bit. Although some see huge privacy implications in this, my personal reasons are more religious.

    How long until each entry has an X, Y, and Z associated with it?

    • will it be run on mysql? (Score:4, Funny)

      by mgkimsal2 ( 200677 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:13AM (#11007902) Homepage
      select * from people where id=666;

    • How much longer will it be until we have a worldwide "people" database?

      Isn't that what Orkut has tried to attempt?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • presumably if it's a free market then we just sit back and let commercial organisations do it? Or do we ask our national governments to pass national and international legislation limiting data collection and data privacy? Or are there other ways to control who keeps data on us (apart from becoming some hardcore-retreat-to-the woods-with-ma-guns survivalist?)
    • I would love to have access to such a database. It would be very informative to know everyone's religious and political affiliations. This data could then be used to manipulate people, or possibly convert them.

      I'm all for collecting more data as long as everyone gets access to it.

      But privacy would be nice...
      Peace would be nice...
      Freedom would be nice...
      There are many things that would be nice if people didn't have to go and fuck 'em up.

  • not bound by laws? eh? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 192939495969798999 ( 58312 ) <info AT devinmoore DOT com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:09AM (#11007857) Homepage Journal
    Other comments have said basically that anyone whose company's not based in country X doesn't have to abide by the laws of country X when acting within the borders of country X. Granted, aerial photos is a bit of a grey area, but within the concept that in order to take a picture of Canada to that resolution, you'd pretty much be intentionally invading Canadian airspace, at least in principle, then it's pretty much like jaywalking in Germany but saying that since you're American, you don't have to abide by German laws.
    • Two forms of commercial-grade aerial photos... taken from satellite, and taken from airplane.

      It's relatively cheap and easy to get satellite photos of around 1 meter resolution for almost anywhere in the world. You can get them from a company like Space Imaging [spaceimaging.com]. Two caveats:

      1) the US government will often purchase the rights to "black out" an entire region of coverage. It would be next to impossible to get current air photos of Iraq or Afghanistan, for example

      2) It can be tricky to get satellite phot
      • Highly true, and good point.

        I work on a popular WiFi/GIS site [wifimaps.com], and it is difficult to get free data of any time related relevance. TIGER is not very accurate.

        How soon is it that there are free repositories of updated spatial data, and when does that cross the privacy line? How do we make sure others don't cross that line?

        From our end, we've made sure not to associate APs listed in our maps from being associated wtih street adresses, and we hide MAC addresses from being displayed. We're making an effo

    • to take a picture of Canada to that resolution, you'd pretty much be intentionally invading Canadian airspace

      Sorry, not right. Since we are talking about satellites here "airspace" does not apply. This from a US Navy law page:

      The upper limit of airspace subject to national jurisdiction has not been authoritatively defined by international law. International practice has established that airspace terminates at some point below the point at which artificial satellites can be placed in orbit without free

  • This guy hates privacy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:11AM (#11007875) Homepage Journal
    If everyone knew everything about everyone else, or at least had access to such information, there would be less problems.

    Name one that would be solved this way.

    Besides, why try and hide things, when it is becoming harder and harder to do so?

    Because I don't wan't everyone knowing a lot about me. I like people not knowing stuff about me. Particularly things like my income (why should anyone care buy me and the IRS), ex-wives, speeding tickets, where I live when I don't know them, who I talk to and a whole host of other things. If I choose to tell someone or post something on the internet that is fine by me. But I don't want them finding out info any other way.

    At least when I submit to a government background check I have to give them permision first.
    • My local county and many others around here make tax assessment records of private property available via the web.

      In my case I could, without any requirements, look up the value of a piece of property and the value of improvements (ie the house), and the registered owner by address, lot/plot, or name. You can even wildcard these searches.

      In two counties I checked you can search the past and present court dockets to see if someone has been in the system lately.

      Of course non-government sources include any
    • Name one that would be solved this way.

      Females.
    • [If everyone knew everything about everyone else, or at least had access to such information, there would be less problems. ]

      Name one that would be solved this way.

      People would no longer get eyestrain from watching too much TV since they would have to spend all evening, every evening, reading reports on everyone else.:-)

      I like people not knowing stuff about me.[...] ex-wives, speeding tickets[...]

      Speeding tickets are a matter between you and the people who own the road you were speeding on, and fo

    • What's scary is that this guy honestly believes that total transparency makes for a better, more civil, society. Well I say let him put up or shut up. Try buying a full profile on Jay Patel, founder of Akiba. You think they'll sell it to you? The classic question here is who watches the watchers? If the watchers submit to the same public scrutiny as the database subjects, it's somewhat less of a problem than if the watchers reserved privacy for themselves.
    • There is a school of thought which says that privacy is only necessary to keep people equal. With ubiquitous monitoring, privacy would not even be something people would want. The usual privacy concern is that our secrets will be used against us. If someone knew I had a gold-plated toilet they would steal it or mock me.

      With ubiquitous monitoring the theft of the toilet would be recorded and the information on the event would be available to everyone. Since I would also know the embarressing things abou
  • A lot of the discussion, yet again, centres around which country's laws apply.

    Lawson believes Canadian privacy law should apply to Abika since it is selling Canadians' information about themselves, but there are hurdles because the firm is based in the United States.

    In the UK we have strong data protection laws as well. However, many companies that take our data make us waive the right by saying that we are aware that the data may be moved outside the UK (Bank call centres in India?) and our rights do

    • In the UK we have strong data protection laws as well. However, many companies that take our data make us waive the right by saying that we are aware that the data may be moved outside the UK (Bank call centres in India?) and our rights do not apply.

      I think India's far from one of the worst offenders. Companies don't have to say anything about what they're doing with their data, as long as the data protection laws give you at least as much protection as the UK laws do.

      For that reason, it is illegal fo

  • Expectation of Privacy, Revisited the 1000th Time (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Onimaru ( 773331 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:13AM (#11007896)

    Okay, so let me get this straight. A company is searching through and compiling publicly available information, and then making some TheSpark-style random conjectures based on these data?

    Where is the expectation of privacy here? Do I have a (reasonable) expectation that data about me on the internet are private? Even my grandmother can tell you that that's ridiculous. This is the cyberspace equivalent of looking through my garbage, not breaking into my house. I hope this action falls on its face, because people providing information aggregation of all kinds are a very valuable, growing part of the coolness the internet has to offer and I want to encourage them in any way possible, even if it does mean that someone might know I bought a USB Christmas tree off ThinkGeek.

    Two qualifications, though:

    1. I hope this site also logs visits to...this site. It would be neat to know if my prospective employer is vetting prospective employees without telling them. That would speak to their trustworthiness, I would think.
    2. I also hope that the fact that their "psychological profiles" are basically for-fun-only personality tests is stated plainly. This is one place where legal weasel-words would make me very happy. This goes under the generic heading of "You can be as stupid as you want, but please don't make other people stupid, too."

    • you don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <tuxette&gmail,com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:16AM (#11007931) Homepage Journal
      The problem is putting this bit and that bit of information about you in a profile and making an assumption about your personality and behavior based on this profile. Keep in mind that these bits of information are more often than not collected non-contextually. And more often than not, using this information against you.

      For example, borrowing a good example used here earlier, if you are a big Grateful Dead fan who goes to all their concerts and runs a website dedicated to them, you are a pot smoker.

      • But would you want to work for a company that was this stupid. Or a manager that relies on crude psychological evaluation from an unreliable and non-contextual source to excuse the fact that he can't find his arse with both hands and a map.
    • A company is searching through and compiling publicly available information
      The Canadian law actualy says

      1. The following information and classes of information are specified for the purposes of paragraphs 7(1)(d), (2)(c.1) and (3)(h.1) of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act:

      (a) personal information consisting of the name, address and telephone number of a subscriber that appears in a telephone directory that is available to the public, where the subscriber can refuse to have

  • Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jakhel ( 808204 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:20AM (#11007959)

    Comprehensive Background Checks, typically return Subject's Name, Aliases, AKA's Age Month & year of birth Date and Location where SSN issued. Others associated with SSN 22 year address/phone history B&W Satellite Photo of current location Nationwide Bankruptcy Search - Nationwide Judgments, Liens Search Nationwide Real Property Search Property Assessments Others listed at subjects address Possible Associates Relatives summary, names & phone numbers Voter Registrations Records Current Neighbors, Names, addresses, phones Court cases involving subject FAA registrations Drug Enforcement Agency Search FAA Airmen, FAA Aircraft Social Security Death Index Professional Licenses Internet Domain Ownership Corporate affiliations UCC filings (Business Loans) Aircraft Ownership Vessels Ownership Motor Vehicles, Motorcycles, Boats Ownership (FL, ME, MN, MS, MP, NE, NC, OH, TX, WI) Drivers License Info (FL, ID, MN, MO, OH, TX, WI) Concealed Weapons Permit (AR, FL, IN, LA, ME, ND, VA) Hunting & Fishing Permits (AK, AL, AR, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, MA, MS, MO, MT, ND, NV, NJ, NC, OH, OK, UT, VA, WI)

    It looks like IT hasn't been the only victim of offshoring. Who would have thought that BIG BROTHER would be outsourced to India too..and you can have all that information AND a psychological profile based on past actions for $140. It's like a credit report of your ENTIRE LIFE. I'm almost tempted to get one just to see why I get hired/turned down for the jobs I apply to.

    • Some of their other services include.. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Jakhel ( 808204 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:23AM (#11007987)

      Basic Background Search (Public Records) (USA) $9.98

      General Background Check (USA) $49.98

      Comprehensive Background Check (USA) $69.98

      Background Check including Psychological Profile (Includes Behavior History and more) (USA) $139.98

      Background Search with Nationwide Criminal Record Search $99.98

      Background Search with Statewide Criminal Record Search $79.98

      Find / Locate this Person (Public records search only) $29.98

      Verify Employment (each) $24.98

      Verify Income $39.95

      Property Search $24.98

      Civil Court Records Search (each Court) $29.98

      State Criminal Records Search (First Name, Last Name, DOB required) $39.98

      County Criminal Records Search (each County) $29.98

      Copies of Court Documents for criminal and civil court records $39.98

      Police Reports, Accident Reports Search by County, City or License Plate Number $69.98

      Search History of Employment (Public Records) (Searches Public Records and Work Databases) $49.98

      Current Employment Search $149.98

      Search / Verify Education & College Degrees $59.98

      Find email or IM from physical address $49.95

      Find Cell Phone Number, Address & Name from SSN $169.98

      Search Date of Birth of this person $14.98

      Search Possible Girlfriends/Boyfriends/Spouses/Roommates $99.95

      Search Social Security Number $139.98

      Search Utility Records (Trace person by searching Electric or Gas utility accounts) $79.98

      Find Relatives (Through Public Records) $49.98

      Search Family Tree Returns info on Ancestors $139.98

      Physical Address from P.O.Box & Name $89.98

      USA Nationwide Criminal Records Search (First Name, Last Name, DOB required) $59.98

      Unconventional Behavior Search $89.98

      Background Check for Canada (Please click on above link for info on this search) $119.98

      Sex Offender Search (each state) $17.98

      International Background Check (Each Country, Please click on above link for info on this search) $139.98

      Medical Records $89.98

      Statewide Marriage Records Search (CA, CO, KY, TX, ME, NV, FL) $24.98

      Statewide Divorce Records Search $179.98

      Statewide Marriage Records Search (Any other state except CA, CO, KY, TX, ME, NV, FL) $179.96

      Find Person by their First Name & Age $39.98

      Find Person by their Maiden Name $49.98

      Sexual Orientation Search (Name, Address, DOB required) $49.98

      Cheating Search (Relationships) (Name, Address, DOB required) $89.98

      Verify Name, DOB from Picture (Checks if Name & DOB belongs to the person in the picture) $89.98

      28 Hour Rush Delivery $39.95

  • During a television interview... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DougDew ( 94589 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:23AM (#11007984)
    ...that was aired recently, the founder of Abika claimed that privacy is stupid and that he doesn't believe in it. In short, he declared his hostility to the very notion of privacy.

    Perhaps it would be possible to publish some of his family's private information on the web to test his conviction that privacy is stupid. Perhaps this could be done in the same way that folks published some facts from Poindexter's private life as a response to the Total Information Awareness initiative.

    Also, Abika's business model depends upon privacy. In other words, in the upper right hand side of http://www.abika.com, there is a "private, confidential, guaranteed" logo, which makes sense as Abika's services would be far less attractive to customers without such a guarantee. If Jay Patel really believes that privacy is stupid, then I challenge him to publish on his website the results of all background checks. More importantly, I challenge Jay Patel to inform the targets of background checks when checks are being performed and also of the identity of the requesters of the checks. After all, the major credit reporting agencies such as TRW are now being forced to report such information to the targets of credit checks, so why should Abika be permitted to operate any differently?

    • The inside scoop on "Jay Patel" (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      (Posting as AC for privacy reasons.)

      1) Jay Patel is an alias for Sanjay Amin [google.com]. (More on this in a bit)
      2) Sanjay Amin started out a company called Entropy Systems [archive.org], which offered a perpetual motion machine [wired.com] to paying customers. This was after he defaulted from school loans at the University of Minnesota. (He left the university and the state due to some disagreements with the university about his engine)
      3) Using the millions of dollars he bilked out of various people and organizations primarily in the Yo

  • and another thing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <tuxette&gmail,com> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:26AM (#11008022) Homepage Journal
    He noted her name tag, came home, and using his knowledge of databases and search techniques, riffled through the Internet looking up information on her. He went back a few days later and surprised Angela with details about her life. He also told her how he had found out. Three weeks later, in a story that could make a script for a date-movie, they were married.

    What was it he dug up on her that made her marry a sneaky bastard like him in three short weeks? And how desperately did he need his Green Card? Or is that "none of our business?"

  • Globalization and communications (Score:3, Insightful)

    by YetAnotherName ( 168064 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:29AM (#11008043) Homepage
    More and more the technology for communications are breaking down barriers both physical and national. And it's precisely a "national game" that I see service providers like this playing more and more effectively. Previously it was just a megacorp that could set up operations in a foreign country, but with services become virtualized and products becoming not much more than information, even small fries can use their national benefits to provide what can't be gotten locally.

    What'll come next? Probably nations realizing that they're losing control that they thought they once had, and finally coming together. To globalize and equalize citizenship? Goodness, no ... to control all this potential with WIPO-like legislation and freedom-sapping rules.

  • Data Rape (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ObsessiveMathsFreak ( 773371 ) <obsessivemathsfr ... om.net minus bsd> on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:34AM (#11008092) Homepage Journal
    This is just data rape, pure and simple. This company is gathering vasts amounts of your personal, public and private dealings over several years and then peddling that information to souless private companies.

    This is wrong pure and simple.

    I don't question someone's right to have access to "specific" data about me. i.e my GP needs to know my blood type, the taxman needs to know my income, the pizza delivery boys needs to know my address. But the wholesale collection and amalgamation of every possible facet of my life by people who have no business knowing anything about me, disgusts me to my very core. No doubt Mr Patel wets himself over the prospect of getting access to embedded RFID telemetry as well.

    Stalking is a crime. When stalkers are caught with pictures, diaries and details of people's whereabouts and dealings, this is usually used against them in a court case. why shouldn't the same apply to Mt Patel and his kind?

    This behaviour is inexcusable. Noone needs to know this much about anyone else and those that do should be prosecuted. Persons and Companies should have the minimum amount of data possible on any one person. Data is on a need to know basis, and they don't need to know.

    Of course, these dirty data raping fiends will argue on grounds of civil liberty(which they threaten), free speech(which they help to chill) and of course they play the happy smiley, "Our motives are purely innocent, you have nothing to fear" PR card, that will fool so many people.(That whole three week marraige story is probobly just a PR stunt) .They'll also bitch about how we have no right to privacy(while keeping their own records out of the public eye).

    Well guess what. I have a right to dignity. And if some private company starts selling off every minutes detail about me, every action I have ever done, every rumour, everything I've said or been remotely involved in, be it happy, sad, embarrassing, glad, hopeful, disparing or just plain private, to every slobbering data hungry slimeball that comes looking for it, I consider that a pretty big dent in my personal dignity pal! See you in court!

  • This is only the warm up act (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:34AM (#11008094) Homepage
    Consolidating all this information off shore facilities is going to be a real boon to the Chinese and Indian governments. All that juicy data on those fat and stupid Americans. And it won't cost them a penny. They'll simply help themselves to copies. No one in the companies would dare complain or refuse.

    This guy is doing it here, but as the off shore trend increases the information is going to become more available to potentially hostile foreign governments.

    Manage it now or pay the price later. We're already paying the price with companies like this one cropping up. This is nothing less than domestic spying.

  • At least from the perspective of someone living in a Untied State, none of the information available on the akiba website is all that private. My name is in the phone book, and in the yellow pages next to my firm. My house is much like others on my block so the value is easy to guess. Any crime I commit gets published in the local newspaper.

    I gues the short of it is, everyone in town already knows all of this stuff about me. The akiba site does not appear to search small financial transactions in my ba

    • I gues the short of it is, everyone in town already knows all of this stuff about me.

      Everyone in town knows how much income you have, your political party affiliation, and whether or not you have a concealed weapons permit??? Where exactly do you live?

      I think you are drastically underestimating the potential abuses of this database. Do you really want the crackhead on the corner to know everything about you? Now think about this in ten years when everyone has access to the internet all the time, and

  • Identity theft made easy... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zro Point Two ( 699505 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:50AM (#11008280)
    I havn't seen anyone mention this yet, but this was the first thing I thought of.

    Pay a couple bucks to this company, get complete background on someone, and then take over their life....you now know everything about them and their past, you don't even have to create things. This means that anything you say about your past can be verified as true.

    The other thing that really got me going was this comment...
    "Patel questions the need for restrictions on personal information, saying lack of data about people is what breeds fear and ignorance. "Most people don't care about privacy. It's the media that makes it a big hype.""

    I'm sure that there are LOTS of people that care about privacy...why do you think we have curtains on our windows?

  • that data is available because we sent it there! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wotevah ( 620758 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @11:53AM (#11008317) Journal

    I believe they can do this in India because we are sending all our information there for processing in the first place. Once it's there, it doesn't take too much to bribe someone to get those records.

    There should be laws that prevent any company from sending US citizen's private information overseas (with a very broad definition of "private", to prevent abuse). This not only will stop this leak, it will also keep some jobs here (medical transcriptions, marketing and all "data mining" business as it relates to person's activity or credit).

    • I don't know if I've misread, but to me it appears that they are NOT doing this from India. Abika is based in Wyoming, and the only reason as to why this was profiled in Times of India was because "Patel says he is writing this week to Jagdish Tytler, the Minister for Overseas Indians, offering his services in such a way that it can be done free for the neediest."
  • Abika the . . . P2P Search Engine [aspfree.com]!?
  • Countries that dont have a Data Protection Act like *cough* the USA need to get one, and countries that do need to add a clause to stop any stupid loop-holes. Oh and also kick people like Blunkett out who want to shit all over the DPA for no reason.
    • Countries that dont have a Data Protection Act like *cough* the USA need to get one, and countries that do need to add a clause to stop any stupid loop-holes. Oh and also kick people like Blunkett out who want to shit all over the DPA for no reason.

      WTF are you talking about? It sounds pretty clear to me that there is money in this - industrial/commercial money. It's a service business that could relocate to any location where the laws permit it - taking its tax dollars along for the trip. A democracy s

  • Patel sounds like a Class-A citizen. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by lysium ( 644252 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @12:08PM (#11008452)
    The article mentions that Jay Patel saw his wife-to-be at the mall, went home and researched her on the Internet, and then returned to the mall to recite her personal life back to her. They married three weeks later.

    The guy sounds like a real creep, and now he offers services like "Sexual Orientation Check." Truly disgusting.

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