Every 5th Call At Dell Is Spyware-Related 559
prostoalex writes "Financial Express quotes a Dell executive saying that spyware is installed on roughly 90% computers out there. Right now 20% of all Dell phone support calls are spyware-related. University of Washington research this March published a moderate estimate of 5.1% PCs running spyware."
Okay (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Okay (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it could be 5% or 90%. I look after machines in the towns round here for home users and businesses. Over the last few months about 90% of the jobs I have done for home users have been removing spyware or viruses, but only 5% or 10% of jobs for businesses have been spyware related.
The Interpretation (Score:4, Funny)
M$: So?
Dell: It all came from IE, your browser. Now we have to bundle Firebox and disable IE for all shipped Dell products.
M$: No. IE is superior. Windows is superior. Suck my left nut.
Dell: What?
M$: Get back to work or we take away windows licensing.
Dell: Ok. Would you like some coffee sir?
Re:Okay (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Okay (Score:4, Funny)
you almost pray someone will call you that has deleted random registry keys or doesn't know how to use a mouse.
:
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I use my firewall as a snitch. Not only do plenty of apps phone home but so many of them that do still work perfectly well despite being blockaded from the internet. I do however get quite annoyed by applications that you configure to not use the internet that then still go ahead and try to access the internet.
App: Time to phone scumsuckingspywhere.com at port 12231
Firewall: Sorry, I can't let you do that. *writes log message*
App: How about phoning scumsuckingspywhere.com at port 80?
Firew
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:3, Informative)
App: How about phoning scumsuckingspywhere.com at port 80?
Firewall: Sorry, I can't let you do that. *writes log message*
Me: *Viewing logs* Ah, another spywhere program blocked!
While there are global settings blocking common ports, network access must also assigned to individual programs before they are allowed to access the network, otherwise they are blocked! Plus there are port controls on the individual programs themselves should I so wish it, and wish it I
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:3, Interesting)
While there are global settings blocking common ports, network access must also assigned to individual programs before they are allowed to access the network, otherwise they are blocked! Plus there are port controls on the individual programs themselves should I so wish it, and wish it I do.
Nitpick:
If it is a software firewall on the same machine, there are ways to circumvent it. I don't know of any spywhere that does so at this moment, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way. What happens whe
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:4, Informative)
Some of the better ones even recognise \myapp\iexplorer.exe as being different than \yourapp\iexplorer.exe. Even if someone tried to write an app named the same as one allowed to access the internet, they still couldn't get through.
I am worried, however, about an app using system calls to route itself through explorer.exe without actually launching it.
Re:Well 10%.... (Score:5, Insightful)
IMO, more than 20% if well maintained systems... (Score:5, Informative)
Spyware is the chronic disorder of Windows today (Score:5, Insightful)
A worm outbreak today is an acute disorder -- the bulk of the damage is done in one day, even a handful of hours or minutes. Even though recovering a business or department from it can take longer, the outbreak itself burns through the vulnerable population pretty quickly, and starves itself. Spyware, because it's rooted in long-standing bad security practices both by Microsoft and by Windows users, is a chronic disorder -- it doesn't just shut you down for a day or so; it degrades your online life over a long, nasty time.
To extend the analogy perhaps too far: A flash worm is like Ebola: it kills its victims quickly and messily and leaves a disgusting corpse. Everyone knows when it's in town because of the gory sacks of flesh lying around the streets. Spyware is like cirrhosis of the liver. It comes from doing something bad over a long period of time. It doesn't spread to others materially, though long-term excessive drinking (which causes it) can "spread" memetically in a population, as do bad Windows security practices. And, eventually, it causes the affected organ to be overwhelmed and just shut down.
The spyware situation today is one created by a nexus of influences:
The first two are well-known and I will not address them further. The latter are not.
What I call contract date-rape is the evil represented by so-called "end-user license agreements" and other documents which purport to represent agreements between software publishers and computer owners. The unethical business practice of software publishers is as follows: The computer owner buys a piece of software and installs it, only to find that it is designed so that it cannot be run without "accepting" an "agreement" which waives the owner's rights -- such as resale rights, rights to a refund for defective merchandise, or even free-speech rights. Then, when the software does something harmful and the owner seeks recourse, he is told that he "consented" to whatever harm was done, simply by the act of using what he purchased.
It is contract date-rape which puts the lie to that old FUD about open-source software: "But whom do you sue when it breaks and doesn't get fixed?" The owner of a computer using proprietary software under a Microsoft-style EULA does not have any enforceable rights against the publisher. Windows does break in many ways that Microsoft doesn't fix, but nobody is suing Microsoft for it. Why? Whether the EULA is in fact legally binding or not, both Microsoft and computer owners regard it as leaving Microsoft with no obligations.
(Of course, software was not always sold on "as-is" terms that were intended in law for used and defective products. Nor was it sold on terms that used copyright law as a cudgel with which to deprive users of rights such as fair comment and resale. Contract date-rape is not an endemic problem of proprietary software; it is one that proprietary software publishers have chosen for themselves.)
And it is the methodical use of contract date-rape which leads to the situation we have with spyware today. Spyware gets into a computer owner's property unannounced, alongside some piece of (presumably) desired software. It is a Trojan horse in the original sense -- sooner or later, it bursts open and out pour the soldiers of the enemy, who go about merrily burning w
In defense of M$FT - have to disagree on one item (Score:5, Insightful)
The spyware situation today is one created by a nexus of influences:
I can't argue with 3) or 4). But as for 1) [and it touches a little on 2)], we've been running Windows NT & Windows 2000 for more than five years now, and we've NEVER had a SINGLE piece of spyware installed on any of our systems. [Never had a virus or a worm either, although I hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying that.]
You know why? BECAUSE NONE OF OUR END-USERS LOG ON AS ADMINISTRATORS!!! That's it - it's that simple. They don't have Administrative rights, and they can't install spyware [or viruses, or worms]. [Of course, yours truly installs the latest security patches as soon as they appear, and has always had all of his users behind a fire wall, but that's not the important point here.]
If you surf the web as an Administrator [Root] on OSX, or if you surf the web as an Administrator [Root] on Linux, you're every bit as prone to this stuff as any Microsoft user surfing the web as an Administrator [or you would be, if those operating systems had large enough market share for the spyware people to be bothered with writing spyware for them].
I tried (Score:5, Insightful)
I tried to set my friends up that way. It isn't hard, XP comes with that ability, even in the home version. Setting up is easy enough. Making it work is another matter though. Nearly half of the programs my friends want to run do not work correctly without administrator rights. This includes software for XP from Microsoft!
In the end I gave up, ideally they wouldn't use the administrator account except when needed, but practically their computer didn't work without it. Switching users takes time and is a pain. Not hard, and it doesn't take long, but annoying enough that I can't call it a solution.
Remember this is a home environment, not a work environment. They don't have someone checking out software from various competitors to see if it meets requirements. If Best Buy sells it they buy it, and expect it to work. (note that you can almost never return software after finding out that it doesn't work without administrator rights)
Re:I tried (Score:3, Informative)
just because they don't "allow" it, doesn't make it legal.
when they say "sorry sir, we can't accept that" you should be ready with "oh, but I'm afraid you can, under the terms of [insert appropriate legislation here]"
for us in the UK it is "The Sale of Goods Act 1976"
if the assistant refuses, ask for a higher up
if he refuses call in your local Trading Standards Agency (or whatever your area calls them) and maybe even your local newspaper, tv station, radio station - local media love "area man takes on b
Not quite (Score:3, Interesting)
Not quite. I don't know about OS X, but I know in GNU/Linux the user must manually set an executable bit before a binary can be run. You can't automatical
Re:In defense of M$FT - have to disagree on one it (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong. I see this allegation all the time from people who never use the system in question, but OS X has this wonderful notion that you ought to consen
Re:Spyware is the chronic disorder of Windows toda (Score:4, Insightful)
I absolutely agree with you that spyware is without doubt the most grevious problem afflicting home Windows user today. However, it is not only the shear numbers of spyware and lack of unified solution to these problems that makes spyware the critical problem it is, but the threat and damage that can be caused by spyware, in my opinion far exceeds what I would consider aggrevation.
Although I am a fulltime workstation administrator for a tech company and often times pick up home user workstation support on the side and they are almost always problems related to spyware. I recently agreed to work on a women's computer that was no longer able to connect to the internet as well as set up a home wireless network for her. She told me that it was "her daughters toy and as long as she can get connected to the internet and chat at night it keeps her daughter out of her hair" they both remain happy. The daughter is 13 years old and has taken to chatting with her friends at night, passing around links to salacious little horoscope programs, gossip programs, ad nauseum . . . After two hours of working on the computer I had removed over 500 instances of spyware (files, reg keys, programs, etc NOT INCLUDING COOKIES!). My obvious diagnosis was that Windows XP home needed to be reloaded but for now she could get back on the internet. When I returned a week later after recovery disks had been obtained there was even more spyware than before & a mysterious bridged internet connection that I assumed was being used to turn the machine into a slave for God knows what. Additionally, I found approx. 5000 illegal song downloads (automatic prison time there), limewire and kazaa and an AIM add-on that was keeping documented records of all IM conversations. I quickly learned that this could not possibly have been the daughters choice as the one converstation I opened while investigating revealed explicit discussion of sexual activities. To me, the potential for abuse in this case goes far beyond the loss of data, or even identity theft. A hacker with access to this machine would be able to know all of this girls personal information, name, address, appearance, school schedule and what place her volleyball team achieved at districts. Needless to say, I did my very best to try to educate this women about the dangers of these surfing habits even referencing the recent
Well, yes and no (Score:3, Insightful)
"The spyware is there on that disk because Microsoft security is bad, yes."
Actually, no. Yes, I know, it's slashdot. Daring say that there's something (e.g., AIDS or world hunger) which MS isn't to blame for, is bad for your karma. Blaming MS for _anything_ rakes in the big karma points on
Now Micro
Re:Well, yes and no (Score:3, Insightful)
Alternatively, assuming $HOME/bin/ exists and is in your path, start the process with PREFIX=$HOME ./configure to install there. You may also need $HOME/lib if you hit dependency issues.
Hello (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hello (Score:5, Funny)
-Apu
Re:Hello (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hello (Score:4, Insightful)
And besides, there is some truth to it. The problem is we in India, though are tought english from the first grade, rarely use it in everyday converstaion , so our conversation skills are limited.
We can't create simple short meaningful sentences. We use words like "basically", "actually", "technically" etc. ad nauseam and all at wrong places.
If we really want to keep these "outsourced" jobs we need to buckle up and improve our skills , rather than accuse Americans of being racist.
From my prespective we should rather do RnD stuff, for our own benefits rather than pacify some pissed of customer 7 seas across, who can barely figure out what we are speaking.
In that case... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:In that case... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In that case... (Score:5, Funny)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
I wouldn't trust the average user to make toast without burning down the house.
Re:In that case... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In that case... (Score:3, Insightful)
Although rare, Gazillo said it wasn't the first time he has investigated a fire caused by a lizard and a heat lamp. [floridatoday.com]
I know you're being funny. But in reality, the reason college students aren't allowed to cook is A: Hot plates present a ceartin risk regardless of their operator (my george foreman grill just electrocuted me about an hour ago). And B: Support overpriced college meal plans!
RE: select "yes"? Not the whole answer.... (Score:3, Informative)
Education, in a general, overall sense, is *always* the best answer. If you really *know* how to avoid all the problems, then you shouldn't have any of them.
But that's as much a "cop out" as anything, if you're trying to offer up workable solutions to the current spyware/malware epidemic we're seeing on Windows-based machines.
Quite a bit of spyware I've run across initially gets on machines because users installed an ot
Re:In that case... (Score:5, Funny)
Funny thing, I read that article and a popup for spyware comes up, defying even Firefox's popup blocker. Ironically, the popup said that the computer has spyware installed.
Eh.
Re:In that case... (Score:5, Funny)
You pull up in your drive way and everything seems normal. But then you walk in the house and see a hot girl sitting on your couch. She walks over and gives you a passionate kiss and tells you dinner is ready. You know something is seriously wrong the universe.
In this parallel world, *your* favorite Linux distribution is King. As is your favorite Window Manager, toolkit, and so on. 90% of the world runs it.
Now my question is - what would prevent spyware authors from writing and sucessfully deploying spyware on your Operating System?
Lets make the assumption that people in this parallel universe are just as careless as they are in the real universe.
Re:In that case... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the old "Windows-gets-attacked-because-it's-popular" myth.
So Apache gets attacked more than IIS?
When always-run-as-root-and-never-install-security-pat
Re:In that case... (Score:3, Interesting)
Most spyware comes trojaned on to little shareware and 'freeware' utilities that are downloaded to add functionality to windows. In general, these same features are available on GNU/Linux as free software, so there's no need to mess around with untrustable shareware.
Yes, there exists free software for windows, but not with the same ubiquity as GNU/Linux. And yes, an
Re:In that case... (Score:5, Insightful)
Once installed an extension can do anything the user can do. Normally that might be to stick a button onto the browser, but there's nothing to stop the extension searching your drive and uploading data, acting as spyware or installing a root kit etc.
Just like ActiveX, XPI files are meant to be signed so you can establish trust. But no one digitally signs their Firefox extensions! Therefore users are 'trained' to install untrusted XPI extensions. Untrusted means you have no idea who wrote it, or if it's been tampered with.
Firefox 1.0pr1 has introduced a small band-aid. Now have to indicate you 'trust' a site before you can install an XPI from it. It's better than nothing but it still won't authenticate or repudiate the XPI as being from that site - someone could have replaced the genuine XPI with a malicious one, or intercepted the entire site entirely.
The XPI model either needs to enforce certs and give contributors a way to get them conveniently and cheaply. Or it should move over to PGP signatures and a web of trust model. In some ways the latter is more beneficial since people don't have to fork out ludicrous sums to Verisign to authenticate that they wrote the extension.
In any case, I'm just indicating that a naive user could install something on Linux that they would later regret.
Re:Spyware cannot run on Linux. (Score:3, Funny)
Dell saves $$$ pre-installing firefox (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dell saves $$$ pre-installing firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
Stuart
Re:Dell saves $$$ pre-installing firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Dell saves $$$ pre-installing firefox (Score:3, Funny)
20% is only the call volume from Dell (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember, people only call when they are aware of a problem.
And even then, most people will "get by" until the problem is so pronounced they are forced to do something about it.
85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Dell is going to do some small case studies of selling the average user a machine loaded with linux and see if it becomes cheaper to support them.
Re:85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:3, Funny)
dont believe the hippy-left-wing-pinko-commie-hype!
It's not cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and if your customers buy new hardware and it doesn't work, you can't pawn them off on the manufacturer (no Linux support, you see). Yeah, hardware Dell didn't sell you isn't supported. Try telling that to the average jerk who just bought a $30 dollar digital Camera. He's not gonna care if you support it or not, and he's just gonna get pissed and buy a Windows PC next time.
You're underestimating the value that $50 bucks buys an OEM.
Re:85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been using DOS then Windows since 1984 and have never had spyware or a virus either. In fact I don't even run checkers constantly, just every few weeks to double check. (And for the record I have been doing Linux since late 1991 and not had anything there either).
If you are prepared to put the time and effort into it, it is all pretty easy. You don't blindly run or view stuff from other sources, you don't steal software (if you don't have the originals then you have no idea what you are actually getting), you pay attention to the dialog boxes that various programs display etc. Heck I even read the contents of those dialog boxes with legal agreements in them before clicking Ok or Cancel. Most people just don't do that, and as a result their computers end up with more "helpful" software than they otherwise anticipated.
To say that Linux by design is invulnerable is nonsense. It doesn't take too much to infect an individual user (remember they aren't reading those dialog boxes either). And notice how on many Linuxen, when you try to run an admin tool on your ordinary user desktop, prompt for your (sudo) or the root password and which then leaves a key icon in your panel. That is one thing that can be abused to go from ordinary user to root. In many cases a piece of malware could probably just prompt and the average user would type in the necessary password.
Quite frankly I don't know the answer. Signing stuff doesn't work. User education is futile - why should someone have to know about the internals of their computer, operating system, access and authorisation models? It probably comes down the programmers and user interface. Every time the software has to ask a question, it is being stupid. We need to continually work on the software meeting the user's goals without needing to be babysat, and especially without them having to make these decisions all the time.
Re:85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:3, Interesting)
"Quite frankly I don't know the answer."
I know the answer, and the answer is fixed functionality, ala something like WebTV.
Joe Average goes to the store and buys himself a PC-Appliance, it has a webbrowser, an email client, an office suite, media players and whatever else you like, but none of these things are upgradeable at all. The core OS and application space is on non-writeable media. The only things that can be written to the appliance by the end user are document files. No exececutables or script
Re:85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:3, Interesting)
demonstration:
put spyware in some directory that looks innocuous,
like ~/.gnome
then get the shell to execute the following command:
echo ~/.gnome/spyware \& | cat
bam! instant spyware. It can interface with the Window manager (and pop up internet ads in konqueror or whatever), it can monitor keystrokes, mouseclicks, and even send a picture of the desktop to a remote location.
Re:85% of all support calls I get are from spyware (Score:3, Funny)
Due to awareness? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this because users are now more aware of the existance of spyware, rather than the actual 19% increase?
For instance, in 2003, Joe-granpa probably didn't know/care why his modem's blinking non-stop, but he does now.
numbers? (Score:3, Insightful)
90% of Windows machines connected to the Internet is absolutely believable. I don't know anyone who hasn't gotten some. I've never had a virus on any machine, but got spyware on a Windows box by accident when the little "yes/no?" box pops up while I'm typing in a password (hit enter just at the wrong time...)
90% of Dell support calls - NOT 90% of all (Score:3, Informative)
What's hilarious is the way techs are told "document everything" and "don't fix spyware and virii issues" but then get chastised (and even written up) if their average goes
Windows XP =? Spyware (Score:3, Funny)
* slow down the systems
* phones home to centeral servers
* long click though eula the nobody reads
* pushed on unwitting consumers
* claims to improve system security
* only avaliable on PC
To see if you have spyware... (Score:5, Informative)
Spybot Search&Destroy http://spybot.safer-networking.de/ [safer-networking.de]
and Ad-Aware http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ [lavasoftusa.com]
BTW, be sure to update the definitions or you're going to miss a lot of spyware.
Re:To see if you have spyware... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/downloads.html [spywareinfo.com]
I support quite a few home systems. Currently, the majority of my time is spent cleaning spyware and virus infestations. After installing Ad-Aware, HijackThis and Spybot, my clients stop having problems. As well, a working virus scanner is important. I've encountered several systems where the virus scanner has been deactivated. Therefore, I've been putting the EICAR test virus on all my systems.
http://www.eicar.org/anti_virus_test_file.htm [eicar.org]
Spyware used to be most bots from hackers, now it seems it's all marketing crap from big business. Isn't greed grand?
Re:To see if you have spyware... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:To see if you have spyware... (Score:3, Informative)
Wow (Score:5, Funny)
They really went the distance to get the results they wanted...
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
Techs should feel fortunate (Score:5, Interesting)
UW report - read it carefully (Score:5, Informative)
It didn't answer how many of the computers were infected with any spyware program, just those four.
Hmm... (Score:3, Funny)
Using Linux as a file server at home: Free.
Using Solaris in our data-center: Pricey.
Not having to put up with viruses, zero-day exploits and assorted other bullshit: Priceless.
Apple, Sun & IBM make Microsoft look like the Red Sox, a lot of talk with zero action backing it up.
The obvious question: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The obvious question: (Score:3, Informative)
As such, most installations of foistware were voluntarily accepted in some way by a fool clickin on an "I accept this software" click button, and the virus companies are very reluctant to start ripping it out by the roots
Will they help remove it? (Score:5, Interesting)
By the way, I love the "Your browser has blocked a popup" image over the article text. Really helps in the journalistic integrity department.
Re:Will they help remove it? (Score:3, Informative)
Internet Exploder (Score:3, Interesting)
The only reason I give a rip is because I have relatives who buy these machines and end up whining about it to me. Hmph.
As a local (retail) PC Tech... (Score:5, Informative)
At least 8 of the 10 computers that I fix follow this routine:
Update and run AV program, if possible.
Install Adaware, update, run.
Install Spybot S&D, update, run.
Run CWShredder.
Fire up a HijackThis! log and manually remove the leftovers.
I'm getting pretty damn good at filtering out the hijackthis logs, too.
Seriously, if you familiarize yourself with spyware removal, you could make a killing on the home PC market. Manufacturers won't help you with spyware. It's getting to the point where the retail chains and PC shops won't deal with it either; they'll simply offer you a format/reinstall.
Prevention (Score:5, Insightful)
But avoiding spyware on the whole is very simple, and comes down to a few simple steps, based on prevention is better than cure, i.e. it's better not to get something bad at all, than to get something bad and then have to get rid of it.
Make sure their computers are behind some kind of hardware or software firewall which blocks all incoming TCP connection requests. Yes, there is more to it, but this one step is a huge improvement on not having a firewall.
Install another browser such as Mozilla Firefox, and show them how to use it. Only use Internet Explorer for specific sites that you trust, if it has to be used at all. Remember that many users need Flash and Java, so consider installing these as well to stop them going back to IE as soon as they hit a site requiring one or the other.
Spend a few minutes educating your users about malicious software. Explain that a computer simply follows instructions with little concept of good or bad, and that it only takes a double click on one file containing such instructions (eg a .exe file) to contaminate the system.
Yes, there's more: software updates, strong passwords, encryption, using more secure software and all the rest of it. Unfortunately most of our users aren't interested in becoming computer security experts. If you can get those three above points hammered in, and let them know that that there is more to securing their computer, you're making a big step in the right direction.
This is partly Dell's fault. (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell do they expect to happen, when they won't let the techs solve the problem?
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Dell's OEM Windows OS' come with spywares... (Score:5, Interesting)
Five Percent! Hahahaha! (Score:3, Interesting)
There's one ultra Death Star customer and they got a virus from a security camera server installed by a contractor. ROFL! Soon as they plugged it in it went nuts infecting other machines.
Five percent...hahahahaha!
Very true... (Score:4, Interesting)
I see it all the time (Score:5, Insightful)
1) They accidently click on something they didn't mean to, because of a popup. It goes downhill from there, since many spyware programs act like virii and have some friends join the fray.
2) Users that hit porn sites. These are the black hole of spyware, and while I've told them "stop looking at the porn and you wont get this crap", and they say they don't, yet I see their Internet Explorer history and its just filled with porn urls.
While my parents are largely #1, I've switched them to firefox and its gone down dramatically. I still catch them using IE for things like OWA and a few other IE-sites (and they will re-use the browser window to do other things).
I simply got tired of deal with them calling me about "CoolWebSearch" and tons of other junk that pisses me off.
I use Internet Explorer *and* firefox to browse the web, and I never get *any* spyware - I just know what to look out for. I'd say at least 80% of the people out there don't.
It also helps if you surf the web as a non-priveldged account - those are, for the most part, invulnerable to spyware. Just as none of you would use any web browser on linux as root -
agressiv
HP Pavilions (Score:4, Interesting)
It's pretty bad if your grandmother downloads and installs some screensaver with this shit on it, but HP should not be doing this to its customers. Having to deal with a recovery CD is bad enough, without having to clean out the extra "value added" shit (aka sweetheart deals that make them mo money). HP is stabbing their customers in the back.
(Unrelated to this, kinda, but when I was ordering this recovery CD from the HP drone on the phone, I asked him the price.
He said "between $20 and $40."
So I said, "Can you be more specific?"
He said, "I'll need the model number first."
So I gave it to him and said "So what's the price?"
"Between $20 and $40, depending on the model number."
"I just gave you the model number! What's the price?"
"You need to order it first."
"Tell me the price first."
"You need to order it before I can tell you the price."
"You mean you can't, or won't, tell me the price?"
"Just order it, and if you don't like the price, I'll cancel the order."
"Fine. Whatever."
I ended up ordering it anyway, but I have never seen such a stupid system where you can't know the price until you order.)
Simple equation (Score:3, Interesting)
Spyware made money for me (Score:3, Interesting)
Gator used to be one of the worst ones.
installed spyware (Score:5, Interesting)
We've seen Dell+Spyware before (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, nice to see it coming around to byte you, eh, Dell?
Sounds about right (Score:3)
Anecdote (Score:3, Interesting)
Jaysyn
It's definitely more than 5%... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm just glad that I normally don't run Windows at home.
There's peope harvesting botted systems (Score:5, Interesting)
There's someone who does an organized scan of my ISP's IP space every morning at 8:42 and 9:42 EDT. When I have two DHCP IPs, both get hit with an average of eight bots each trying ports 5554, 1023, 9898 and 445. The IPs it comes from are usually Korean or Japanese. When I listen at the ports, they try various exploits on bots which do listen on those ports to download their own bot software.
I suspect that "8:42 Zombie Charlie" scans a lot more than my ISP's space. So it looks like someone is running a very organized and *punctual* effort to harvest a whole lot of botted machines for unknown purposes. Joy. (Actually, it's kind of fun. I wrote a sound effects program from my firewall, and I drink my coffee listening to the chorus of sounds as the ports are checked. Too bad I can't arrange to be checked a little earlier in the morning.)
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Dell wouldn't have it any other way...here's wh (Score:3, Interesting)
This is, however, exactly what happened to my wife's computer. While we're a Mac household, her employer lent her a computer a few months ago, to be able to use a web app that only works using IE6. Being vaguely aware of all the malware on Windows, I told her not to use the Windows machine for email, assuming web browsing was relatively safe. However, after
Has 'spyware' actually happened to you? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a great (and true) anecdote about a Professor who inadvertantly splashed pr0n up on a 4m x 4m screen before an audience of MBA students, managers and Execs, but I don't have a good anecdote for the spyware and phisching parts of the series.
Have you (or do you know anyone) who has been caught out by (i) a keylogger or similar spyware or (ii) a phisching attack, either of which caused some quantifiable loss (ie: $$$ got pinched from their online back account, identity re-used somewhere else, etc, etc)
All I need is a short email description so that I'm quoting a valid/verifiable source instead of making things up.
I'd appreciate an email from an actual victim please, I'm happy to cite your name or be anonymous as required. Thanks.
about:me I'm a geek who works at university, becoming increasingly frustrated at the last year or so's worth of worms, phishing and general microsoft-induced hell and I'd had some degree of success at getting myself published on a range of geek topics. By no means a journalist or anything like that though!
They get what they deserve (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe they will begin to ship machines with a more secure initial configuration. They might start wit some changes suggested by last month's article at The Register [theregister.co.uk].
Possible spyware cure? (Score:5, Interesting)
What I envision is a screen saver that we load on all the machines we can get our hands on. This screen saver then contacts these spyware sites and uploads random info. The aggressiveness could be controlled by the user, allowing it not to flood any Internet connection. The screen saver could have spyware lists, just like anti-virus software that could be updated. Imagine having millions of pcs uploading junk to coolwebsearch. How long would you say these guys would stay in business? Would those that are buying this info continue to do so even if it full of garbage?
Obviously this would be OSS, but we could license it in such a way as to allow folks like Dell to preload this and set it as default.
So folks, what do you think? Is this the way to kill these guys or is the recent criminalization enough to stem the tide?
Re:I make a good living cleaning spyware... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Perhaps Dell should pre-install less spyware. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Perhaps Dell should pre-install less spyware. (Score:4, Informative)
The very fact that you have been modded informative serves to demonstrate that Dell + RedHat is not an obvious option and most people remain blissfully unaware that it exists.
Dell only offer Linux as an option to appease the Linux crowd. They certainly don't want to be hit by a backlash from the rabid Linux fanboys. But at the same time they are keeping on BillG's good side by sticking "Dell recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP" graphics all over their webstore and ensuring that the Linux option is kept pretty much hidden from the general publics view.
Try going to the Dell website and browsing to a PC with Linux. Don't do a site search for Linux, as that defeats the purpose. Joe Average won't be doing that after all. I just tried looking around for a few minutes. You would think that if you were to check out the "Learn more about operating systems" links on most of their store pages you might see a mention of the Linux option?. No, there is no mention of Linux in there, just descriptions of XP Home vs XP Professional. Yay! It's as if Linux doesn't even exist.
Dell might technically sell you Linux if you ask for it, but they sure go out of their way to make sure you don't ask about it.
Re:Perhaps Dell should pre-install less spyware. (Score:3, Interesting)
Great, if the average PC user didn't want windows pre-installed.
The sort of people clogged up with spyware aren't the technical users who want to use something other then widows, or install any OS themselves.