Swedish Pirate Demo 537
Arioch of Chaos writes "In Sweden, May 1 is still a day when many people get out on the streets to take part in the traditional demonstrations. Today, the Swedish site Piratbyrån organised demonstrations in several Swedish towns, demanding more bandwith and the abolition of intellectual property laws. This picture is just great. More pictures here." Congratulations to whoever made the AYBABTU sign.
Let me be the first to say... (Score:5, Funny)
Mirror , just in case (Score:4, Informative)
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/umea/DSCF002
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.piratbyran
The mirror of http://www.piratbyran.org/1majbilder/sthlm/DSCF00
The mirror of http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/20040430/inde
The mirror of http://www.dailywireless.com/modules.php?name=New
The mirror of http://www.kismetwireless.net/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.kismetwire
The mirror of http://www.stumbler.net/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_154/www.stumbler.n
The mirror of http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040430/image
Cease and desist (Score:4, Funny)
Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:4, Insightful)
16And he told them this parable: "The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. 17He thought to himself, 'What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.' 18"Then he said, 'This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry." ' 20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?' 21"This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God."
And bear in mind that this is concerning physical property only, the very concept of owning an idea was so beyond the comprehension of anyone at that time that there is *NO* mention of Intellectual property or *Any* justification thereof in the bible as far as I am aware. If you can find such, point it out, but otherwise withdraw your statement. Disclaimer: IANAT (Theologian)
Posted anonymously in a (probably vain) attempt to avoid the atheist zealots causing yet another flame war (my argument is one of historical and textual reference, not a religious one per se.)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:4, Funny)
Bullshit
Slashdotus 23:45 Thou shalt not confuse stealing with copyright infringement
Haven't you read the Very New Testament?
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Insightful)
So everything is relative and ruled by the mob? If 99% of the people believe slavery is moral, then slavery is moral? Nope don't buy it. There are many ways to find an ethical compass, and I will not argue the positive (right now); however, you
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Insightful)
So. Back to the topic. Why is capitalism a "universal law"? Because it's the only real way a large-scale society can function efficiently, by putting the burden not on the society as a communism does, but the individuals. It has nothing to do with the bible, but rather it's a pretty damn efficient way of making sure society does whats best for society most of the time, and for the most part it works.
If you want to get into socialism, or Laisse-Fair, that's a different subject, but the point stands.
The real problem with real communism (Score:4, Insightful)
The fundamental limiting factor to Marxism is the idea the "the workers own the means of production", which fails miserably in an Industrial Age society, and implodes in an Information Age society.
Consider a chip fab plant - they cost BILLIONS of dollars to build. Now, how many people work at a chip fab? Even if 10,000 people worked at a fab, that would mean that each worker's portion of the plan would come to about 100,000 dollars. Compare that to a furnature factory - which set of workers has to be worth more?
And that is the key problem - some workers need to be worth more than other workers - anathema to the Marxist. And since things like chip plants, auto (or tractor) factories and suchlike cannot be funded by the workers, *something* must come in to fund them. So you either have a) rich people (again, anathema to Marxists) or b) "The State" come in to create the plants. But if "The State" owns the plant, the workers don't own it, and "The State" is not going to give it up.
That was what prevented the Communist nations from being able to scale - Marxism didn't work, they went to "The State", and inefficency prevented them from getting anywhere.
(-- boy I wish
That said, I agree with the parent - and this bunch of wastes of flesh are posterchildren for the free rider problem. And even if we assume the cost of copying software is 0, even if we assume that all electronic content should be Free (in the RMS sense), there is still the little problem that you simply cannot say "router = new Cisco; fiber = new Fiber;" - these are physical things that somebody had to expend resouces to create.
Re:The real problem with real communism (Score:3, Insightful)
That was what prevented the Communi
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Funny)
Piratbyrån demonstrerade i tre städer
Inlagd: 2004-05-02 00:49
I tre städer demonstrerade idag anhängare till Piratbyrån under paroller som "Välfärdssamhället börjar vid 100 Mbit" och "Avskaffa upphovsrätten". I Stockholm demonstrerade närmare 200 personer, i Umeå ett hundratal och i Malmö ett tappert halvdussin.
Deltagarna skanderade nypåkomna slagord som "Use the force - Open Source" och "Vi vill ha sex, vi vill ha sex, vi vill ha 600 Mbit", och bar på hemgjorda banderoller med pirat- eller fildelningstema. I Stockholm genomfördes också historiens första Copyswap, där de som hade med sig egenbrända skivor med film eller musik delade med sig till sina nyfunna vänner. I Umeå delades det ut pris till demonstrationens bäst utklädde pirat, en alldeles äkta hårddisk.
Både i Stockholm och Umeå fokuserade talen på den nyligen avslutade kampanjen "Stoppa Fluktarna", som syftar till att sätta press på internetleverantörerna att inte acceptera branschorganisationernas maffiametoder när de bland annat spionerar på internetanvändare för att sedemera kunna anmäla dem till deras leverantörer.
I Umeå tågade demonstrationen förbi tre stora internetleverantörer som har kontor i staden, och i Stockholm var slutdestinationen Datainspektionen där 23.000 namnunderskrifter lämnades in - brända på CD-Rom. Datainspektionen ansåg sig inte ha tid för Piratbyrån, så listan lämnades i deras postfack.
Piratbyrån vill tacka alla som anslöt sig till demonstrationerna idag. Vi visade att vi faktiskt finns på riktigt, och att vi är en kraft att räkna med. Tills nästa arrangemang - fortsätt piratkopiera!
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Funny)
Yea... right.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Funny)
Yea... right
Observe how information about what is being said leads to quick breaking of cryptosystems.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:4, Funny)
More like: "Vi vill ha porn, vi vill ha porn, vi vill ha 600 Mbit"
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Informative)
"Piratbyrån (the pirate bureau) demonstrated on three locations
Submitted: 2004, May the 2nd, 00:49
In three cities supporters of the Pirate Bureau demonstrated under slogans like "The welfare society starts at 100 Mbit" and "abolish copyright". In Stockholm almost 200 persons demonstrated, in Umeå about a hundred and in Malmö a bold handful. The participants chanted newmade slogans like "Use the force - Open Source" and "We want six, we want six, we want 600 Mbit" (pun lost in translation), and carried homemade banners with piracy and file sharing themes. In Stockholm the first Copyswap ever was pulled off, where people exchanged their privately burned discs with film or music with their new friends. In Umeå a price was awarded to the best dressed pirate; a real harddrive.
Both in Stockholm and Umeå there was particular focus on the newly finished campaign "Stoppa Fluktarna" (stop what? Will some Swedes help me out?), aiming to put pressure on the ISPs, so that they will not accept the media industry's mafia methods; spying on Internet users and subsequently reporting them to their ISPs.
In Umeå the demonstration marched by three large ISPs having offices in Umeå, and in Stockholm the final destination was Datainspektionen where 23000 signatures was passed over - burned on CDROM. Datainspektionen couldn't be bothered, so the list was put in their mailbox.
The Pirate Bureau wishes to thank everybody that participated in the demonstrations today. We showed that we exist for real, and that we have a force to be reckoned with. Until the next happening - keep on pirating!
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Insightful)
Public institutions, the government, 'län' and 'kommuns' should make sure that everyone has access to good communications (Internet or otherwise). Most people are more than willing to pay for that through their taxes.
Broadband connections may not be a human right, but having great communications definitely gives the economy an advantage and helps to boost research and development.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:3, Interesting)
You don't seem to understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the flipside of the higher taxes is they expect more services. A free government is supposed to be one that serves its people. The reason that they take money from the people is to give them services that they all need and want such as transportation, public safety, health care and so on.
So, if people pay taxes to the government with the understanding they will be used to build broadband infastructure, it is not unreasonable to demand that they actually recieve the broadband as a result.
Just because we here in the US think that broadband ought to be in the hands of private (well, sort of private) corperations does not mean that the rest of the free world shares those views. What's more, if the US government levied a tax to provide unviersal boradband availability, as they levy a tax to provide universal phone availability, I would expect to recieve broadband as a result, as I expect to recieve phone service.
Re:You don't seem to understand (Score:4, Informative)
BUT.
We do not have a specific "broadband tax" in sweden, which means that the first things you should make sure is properly funded by the government should be important things like schools and healthcare (which arent properly funded). Not silly things like fiberlinks to every house. And thankyou for clearing up who the hell these people where when I saw them yesterday. I couldnt hear what the hell the nerd was mumbling into his microphone (I live in the town on the picture that is "just great"... yay Umeå!).
You totally missed the point. (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't confuse democracy with freedom. They aren't the same unless you mean the majority is free to do whatever it wants to the minority.
Second, if there was enough money available by those that would use such a system, then a private company would step in to provide the service. If there is no such company, then obviously t
You don't understand freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't up for debate, this is what a free country means. You may feel that isn't enough freedom, but that doesn't change how the word is used. In your point of view, there would be NO free countries since they all tell you what you can and can't do, and levy some taxes. Under what seems to be your view, the only real freedom is Anarchy (the absence of government).
Re:You don't understand freedom (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You don't understand freedom (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You don't understand freedom (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Infrastructure. (Score:3, Interesting)
There are all sorts of conveniences you could apply this same logic to. Why not have a ministry of washing machines, for example? Wouldn't it be a convenienc
Re:You don't seem to understand (Score:3, Insightful)
Europe has lower crime, longer lifespans, lower infant mortality, you name it they've got it. Go back to reading "USA Today" and keep dreaming that you live in utopia.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Informative)
Stupid question (Score:3, Interesting)
How much does bandwidth itself cost? I mean, once you lay the line, aren't your costs pretty much fixed, regardless of how much bandwidth you use?
On a pipe, you pay for:
Router, or other form of access --> one time cost
The line itself --> one time cost
Person/people to maintain it --> ongoing fixed cost
Internal switches --> one time cost
Servers --> one time cost, till they go down. Going down is going to happen regardless of
Re:Stupid question (Score:3, Interesting)
The cost of everything you mentioned is amortized. Optic cable costs $X/meter to lay, especially if roads need to be dug up, or if it needs to be laid across the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean for example. Charging the first guy the billions of dollars it really cost so that everyone else can have it for the cost of ongoing maintenance isn't going to work very well.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:2)
I'd love to see an organization that works similar to, say, Debian, take care of the infrastructures.
Re:Demanding bandwidth? (Score:2)
Why should the net be any different? If you can't afford it, go to a cafe, or the library, or a friends house.
Warez the Future (Score:2)
Value? (Score:2, Insightful)
Silly Pirates Play With Reality (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Value? (Score:2)
and... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Value? (Score:2, Interesting)
Funny... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Funny... (Score:2)
The original was 1600x1200 weighing in at 769kb. I reduced it to 800x600 and 128kb.
Click here [forest.net] to view it.
Re:Funny... (Score:3, Funny)
No ship? No beard? (Score:3, Funny)
The rise in the landlubber:pirate ratio is very bad, Arr.
Demonstration (Score:4, Funny)
My imagination cooked up some confusing stuff in the short times before my eyes made their way down to the description. A game where you are a Swedish pirate raiding Danish ships? A new P2P program written by a Swede? Maybe something involving a Swedish demolition guy?
Anyway, that's pretty neat that there were organized demonstrations. Hopefully it'll get some press (outside of the
Re:Demonstration (Score:2, Interesting)
Let me guess... (Score:3, Interesting)
I still fail to see why people want the abolition of IP laws. If you don't want to pay for the music/game/movie, then don't copy it either. The reason for the charge is to pay peoples wages, buy equipment, etc.
Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make whatever it was.
Re:Let me guess... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let me guess... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Let me guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh boy,here we go again... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh boy,here we go again... (Score:4, Funny)
I think it was slashdot.
Re:Oh boy,here we go again... (Score:2)
*pukesoverthesideoftheboatandmanagestoscareaway
Sigh... yes... piratbyrån (Score:5, Informative)
Piratbyrån (roughly translated to "The bureau of piracy") was formed as a childish response to the lawyerfilled "Antipiratbyrån" (I think you can take a guess at the translation).
The "members" are mostly 14 year old kids, who just discovered that "heeey! i can use kazaa to download pr0n! wow!", and shortly after discovered "what do you mean it's illegal? I'll pirate anyway, motherbitches!" and is as of thus filled with these crying fools. Noone with half a brain takes them seriously, and I hope none of you do either.
I'm not, repeat not, som kind of guardian of antipiratbyrån, but piratbyrån uses just the kind of methods that makes antipiratbyrån look like the good guys. Unfortunate indeed.
Re:Sigh... yes... piratbyrån (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry . . . But I did submit it under "It's Funny, Laugh" ;-) Basically, I agree with you but I do think it's good that someone starts making some noise. I am not against IP but I do think that we need a discussion about it in society. Nowadays, all you hear (except on /. and a few other sites) is the people crying "theft".
too bad it's not iceland (Score:5, Funny)
Re:too bad it's not iceland (Score:3, Informative)
Why I don't take this organization seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think there's a line between fighting for freedom (software patents and so on), and fighting for piracy, and these guys crossed it.
It's a legit stance (Score:5, Insightful)
Information is not a physical good, and shouldn't be treated as such. It costs virtually nothing to make a copy and spread information, and all of that cost is incured by the copier. Thus there should be no ownership of information, it should be free to all to promote progress and free thinking.
Now, I'm not saying there aren't problems with this point of view, but there certianly seem to be problems with the current views on intellectual property. This is a legit stance and one that can certianly be taken seriously. I don't think it's the right answer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it as not serious.
The more laws there are, the more crime there is (Score:2)
Re:Why I don't take this organization seriously... (Score:3, Interesting)
1865: People put down their lives to end slavery.
1945: Millions die to stop Hitler and preserve freedom.
1970: Massive protests for civil rights.
2004: Protest for the right to steal other's work.
Nah, this generation isn't spoiled. What makes you think so?
Yarrr (Score:4, Funny)
And not a peg leg amongst the lot of 'em. These swabbies aren't much for piratin, but I ain't never met me a pirate worth his salt hailing from Sweden.
Back when I was earnin me sea-legs we'd be out a rapin' and a pillagin' and a downloading our warez over 28baud
Yarrr, more rapin and a pillagin and a downloadin' and less parades say me.
Vikings (Score:2, Interesting)
Aaah, it's good the young ones keep up the traditions. 1st of May is even today the day to drink copious amounts of mead.
why May 1 as the 'traditional' day of protest? (Score:5, Informative)
Riiiight. (Score:3, Funny)
It's like inviting the WHOLE frikkin' horde of Viking^H^H^H^H^H^HSlashdot barbarians to bang on their gates. In the words of a certain GalaxyQuest character: "Those poor people..."
</humor>
AYBABTU (Score:2)
At any rate, shouldn't they be using something a little more piratey, such as "all your doubloon are belong to us?"
-a
This is a joke (Score:2, Interesting)
Some facts about the Swedes (Score:3, Informative)
BTW, if anybody has tried Direct Connect P2P program they'll quickly find out that the 7151.97 TB [neo-modus.com] online are almost hosted alone by Swedes...
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Swedish Pirates (Score:5, Funny)
In a sense, the Vikings were the original free trade lobbyists.
Mirryarrr (Score:2, Informative)
fetched, (yaaa)rarred, served. enjoy
I'm looking at those pictures (Score:2, Funny)
More bandwidth?? (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not coincidence that 50%+ of all DC servers are(atleast was) located in Sweden...
Only in sweden (and maybe a couple others) (Score:3, Insightful)
If you try this in the US, you would have RI/MP AA hitman after you. Im sorry i mean FBI agents working under a hidden clasue of the DMCA that prevents any attempt to undermine copyright.
Satire aside, if they do succeed, they will probably manage to create an IP anarchy. Content providers outside of Sweden would do what they could to prevent content from going into sweden. THose content providers in sweden that dont support this anarchist dream, would probably leave. So what you get in the end, is a place where content is free to all, but there is no content being created. Well except for a few anarchists.
That said, i dont support a place with no ip laws. But i also dont support the path the US has been taking recetnly. IP holders posses alot more power than IP consumers. We need to find a point of balance. IP holders need to allow market forces to shape the the market. Not make thier consumers criminals.
We really need to do a 180 as far as ip law is concerned. Copyright law needs to be reaxamed and balanced in favor of both interests. I suppose this is not going to happen when most people dont know the diffrence. We can vote with our dollars, but most of the dollars are still going the wrong way out of ignorance.
Done ranting... or whatever...
Better AYBABTU picture (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyone else noticed, that at first the article linked to a picture which wasn't very good. But a short while after the article came on slashdot they swapped around two of the pictures on the server, such that now the link point to a better picture of their sign. DSCF0023.JPG [piratbyran.org] DSCF0033.JPG [piratbyran.org]
Media attention (Score:5, Informative)
Dagens Nyheter, morning paper [www.dn.se]
Svenska Dagbladet, morning paper [www.svd.se]
Aftonbladet, tabloid [aftonbladet.se]
Computter Sweden [www.idg.se] (paying subscribers only)
Yelah [yelah.net]
Gnuheter, /. clone [gnuheter.org]
A little explanation of their views (Score:4, Insightful)
Well. Piratbyrån (the bureau of piracy organization) has the opinion that the current IP-Laws does not help and/or protect content creators / artists, they protect the publishers, record companies and stifle innovation. Many artists only want to spread their music and play concerts (where many small artists make most of their money anyway).
An example of todays bad IP-laws; After the artists death the copyright is still valid up to 70(?) years after. That is not protecting the rights of the artist, that is protecting the rights of the owner of the copyrights. - and those are separate issues.
Piratbyrån is of the opinion that the laws of today is formed by and for the major owners of copyrights - such as publishers and record companies, and therefor they want to abolish these laws.
Please note that I am not a member of piratbyrån, if there are someone from piratbyrån here; please explain it a little further.
Cassette Tape and Cross Bones? (Score:3, Interesting)
Phun (Score:5, Informative)
(piratbyrån = piracy agency)
The absolutely scariest part of this article... (Score:3, Funny)
Kjella
Piracy is Civil Disobedience (Score:3, Troll)
The fat corporations represented by the MPAA and RIAA have been fleecing the public for years. They are the real criminals.
Now, as the people are becoming empowered by technology, those same corporations are fighting a propaganda war in a desperate attempt to derail a future in which they have no place. Let us celebrate their imminent demise!
Check out Downhill Battle [downhillbattle.org]. They have the same sort of skull and crossbones logo.
Re:The letter Å (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The letter Å (Score:2)
Re:The letter (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The letter Å (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The letter Å (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, as a Brit living in Sweden I think Swedes demonstrating over a lack of bandwidth is a bit like Saudis protesting over a lack of sand. Get outta it! Most people in the cities have access to 10/100Mbit connections and
Re:abolition of laws (Score:2)
Re:abolition of laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Sound familiar?
There is a serious issue with IP law in the digital age; it's designed to prevent and deal with a whole different class of issues, ones that barely seem relevant when I can copy the entire Library of Congress's contents in a day or two. IP law is an attempt to impose an artificial scarcity on a commodity that not only doesn't need to be scarce, but by its very nature is easier to assume common.
Do you want *proof* that IP laws are quite probably unnecessary?
Look at Linux. Who would ever write a huge undertaking like an operating system only to give it away for free; to more or less mandate that it must be given away for no more than the cost of distribution? Apparently, lots of people. I know, from several years of working in the radio and music industries, more than a few musicians who could give a shit about their music being copied; as long as people are listening to it, they're happy.
As bandwidth becomes larger and cheaper, storage becomes larger and cheaper, etc, etc, we have to find a *better* way to encourage creation *and* consumption. Eventually, we'll have to do it for real objects, if we ever figure out how to do assemblers. But we need to acknowledge that our IP laws are broken in the modern era, and rather than trying to nudge and tweak and suspender up their sagging morass, we need to figure out a sensible approach.
Who cares about what worked for printing presses? Let's figure out what works for GB/s pipes and TB of disk.
Re:abolition of laws (Score:5, Insightful)
If it were not for copyright law, you could just ignore the license and take the code anyway.
Now for the musician point of view, whilst those musician friends of yours might be happy having people listen to their music, whether they payed for it or not, how would they feel if the next mass produced plastic pop star made some record company millions by singing one of their songs without permission, accreditation or compensation?
IP and copyright are about more than some 15 year old kid downloading songs with Kazaa.
I can accept that there are problems with some aspects of current law (duration being the bigest one), but the original intent of the laws are sound. If an artist or coder wants to give away their work they can. Those that don't want to, shouldn't have to.
Re:abolition of laws (Score:3, Insightful)
Also - think outside the box - what about a law that's allows co
Re:abolition of laws (Score:2)
IMHO (also, IANAL), that's not necessarily true. In the absence of IP laws, everything could be distributed (whether sold, rented, or viewed) under contracts. Want to buy that latest Robbie Williams CD or Tom Clancy's latest read? Sure, just sign this here contract that you won't copy or redistribute it.
Re:woohoo! (Score:2)
Re:Abolition of IP laws would be disasterous (Score:3, Interesting)
Your Anonymous statements require proof.
"your invention is unprotected and copied and you make no money, the consequence is simple: no one invents any more."
I doubt that, needs would still exist and there would still be money to be made by filling those needs.
What would change is that 'invention' would become a different proposition going from get rich quick, and retire, to invent more often to produce an income.
Current IP law is becoming too cumbersome with innovation being killed by trivial paten