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Overseas Crooks Abuse TTY Phone Service
Posted by
michael
on Fri Apr 09, 2004 02:14 PM
from the there-are-no-words dept.
from the there-are-no-words dept.
Rick Zeman writes "The Arizona Daily Star is reporting on how 419 scammers and credit card thieves are abusing the US' TTY service which enables hearing-impaired citizens to make phone calls with the help of an intermediary operator. 'The callers try to use stolen credit-card numbers to make big purchases of merchandise from American companies. The operators often suspect fraud, but they can't just hang up. Federal rules require them to make the calls and keep the contents strictly confidential.' Yes, Virginia, they have no shame...."
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Overseas Crooks Abuse TTY Phone Service
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No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)
No government in the USA hands out handcapped parking permits to everyone who asks. There's a documentation process to certify that one is entitled to it. Sure, that process sometimes gets fooled into giving a permit to somebody not entitled to it, but as least there's a paper trail created by such a fraud that can be followed once it is discovered.
Free TTY services be allowed to issue usernames and passwords to their customers, keep text logs of the conversations, and able to revoke the access of those who abuse their accounts. Basically, the laws that are requiring them to be open are also regulating this service to its death. This needs to be fixed quick.
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday June 29 2005, @09:39PM)
http://www.access-board.gov/telecomm/marketrep/app endices/ttyvm.htm
That's 200000-700000 people using an older type of tty terminal. Maintaining a database and logs for this many users alone is a fair-sized task, and the offices are distributed nationwide.
I'm afraid a cost-benefit analysis would reveal that it's (currently) cheaper to let the scammers scam:(
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Informative)
Since this is
This hardware requirement why internet relays are so nice - you can just use a regular computer without messing with extra gear and you can call from just about anywhere. Furthermore, you can now access the internet relays via smartphones and PDAs, thus giving users a truly mobile option.
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't be serious... Would you advocate keeping a log of every voice call as well, and revoking phone service from those who "abuse their accounts"???
Who's going to define "abuse"? Can a TTY user have phone sex, or is this something the deaf shouldn't be allowed to access?
-bs
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.gh-sts.com/HOWTO | Last Journal: Tuesday November 01 2005, @09:39PM)
Insightful? Last I checked, phone sex was not illegal whereas credit card and wire fraud are.
I do, however, agree that logging calls is a very, very Bad Thing to do. The companies being scammed need to have safeguards in place to make sure they can not only recognize problems, but go back and figure out what happened, who did it, and where they are with the help of law enforcement.
TTY ops are intermediaries. Their job is not to protect companies on one side of the line from fraud and vice versa. They are there to channel information, not concern themselves with its content.
Log today, spam tomorrow (or worse) (Score:5, Insightful)
keep text logs of the conversations
This one doesn't make sense to me. Do the people who issue handicapped parking permits keep a list of the places people park? These conversations are often intensely personal; it's literally the only way some of these people can use a telephone. I agree completely with authentication, but keeping records seems intrusive and demeaning. And if they are kept, sooner or later the deaf will start getting "targeted" TTY advertisements...
"You recently mentioned to your mother that you're thinking of moving. Contact Local Realtors Inc for a free consulation!", etc.
To say nothing of the legal implications; a warrentless wiretap on thousands of American phones, always running, in plain-text, east-to-search format.
I don't think you understand (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto)
How would you put a password protection on this? Would every hearing person have to register a spoken password to be able to call a deaf person?
The point of the relay service is to allow deaf and hearing people equal access to the phone system. If I need a password to call a deaf person but not a hearing person, that's hardly equal access.
Deaf people would never stand for such unequal treatment. They would be even more insulted if you said that they can't take care of themselves by screening their own scammers as hearing people do.
Re:No authentication leads to abuse... (Score:5, Informative)
(Last Journal: Thursday March 15 2007, @12:56PM)
Yes. Requiring some sort of proof that the service is needed as you suggest might also be desirable.
keep text logs of the conversations,
No.
As I recall my sign language instructor explaining, the TTY Relay Service operator (and, I suppose, anything they might keep a hypothetical log with) is legally considered to be part of the telephone. They are NOT allowed to discuss anthing they hear; and any testimony they give about anything they have heard prior to a wiretap warrant being issued is legally inadmissable. You can be planning a murder, and the operator just has to relay the messages back and forth. It's a condition of legal privilege similar to those of spouses, doctors, lawyers, and the Secret Service.
Allowing mandatory logging would effectively put a bug into the phone of every deaf person who has need of this service. Any regulation or legislation permitting this would be struck down in court as a violation of the equal protection and reasonable search clauses.
As for the phone companies doing it themselves, they are under what is called "common carrier protection"-- they make no judgements over what to carry, they just send the voices back and forth, whether it's a call to mom or a death threat. Yes, harrassing calls are illegal, but the phone company only can take action AFTER the recipient complains. Logging, and revoking access based on use, would remove the Telco common carrier protection, and they REALLY don't want to do that. Not to mention the incidental that this might get them sued for civil rights violations under that pesky equal protection clause again.
This report does lead me to wonder, however. I recall being informed by a professor who specializes in history of computing that the phone phreak community back in the 1970's to 1990s was had a very large blind community. While speculations on the cause of that are moot to the matter at hand, there might actually be a group of deaf/hard-of-hearing folk who are gathering around this new (and even less moral) illegal activity. If so, it would be depressing.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I just argue with one.
What a horrible job. (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Sunday November 12 2006, @07:08PM)
Let's describe the job of a Relay Operator:
No matter what the phone call, or what the content of that phone call is, the Relay Operator must, by law continue the conversation.
When a deaf person is feeling lonely they might decide to call a phone entertainment line, man or woman, having to type this in, and say what the deaf person types.
Like the job of a relay operator isn't bad enough, now the operators have to deal with Nigerian poor grammer while perpetrating fraud.
Re:What a horrible job. (Score:4, Informative)
(http://janneinosaka.blogspot.com/)
Assistants to disabled people have dealt with this for a long time; there is even accepted codes of conduct for various situations (basically, assistants should have a similar moral outlook as their bosses, or they will likely not be able to work together over time).
Re:What a horrible job. (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~stefan)
Mind you, this wasn't normal tty relay. This was IP-Relay, which allows anyone with a computer to use it as a tty basically.
Because I've signed NDA's and don't really want to break federal law, I can't go into detail about any calls, but I think I can safely say that what the article describes is pretty accurate.
Also, As for sex lines, that's not too common with IP-Relay. What is common though is bored high school kids calling each other and being very creative with what they make you say/type.
It's funny for a while, and not that bad of a job, but a lot of it is tedious, dull, and annoying (Touchtone menus...AARGH).
Doesn't surprise me (Score:1)
(http://www.dailywireless.com/ | Last Journal: Friday April 09 2004, @09:00PM)
No different (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://janneinosaka.blogspot.com/)
I would be a lot more worried about the idea of an outside party filtering my incoming calls without any control from me.
More specifically, it is hard to have fun with phone salesmen or religious door-knockers once they learn to avoid you.
We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.abrocomputers.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 19 2004, @02:43AM)
Do you sell laptops?
No, we don't sell any laptops.
How about desktops?
Yes, we do desktops.
Will you ship overseas?
No, no overseas shipments.
Ok..ok...how about Los Angeles.
We can do that.
Ok, I have credit card, I can pay now.
We'd need some sort of verification that you are the cardholder.
The conversation goes downhill from there. The first few times we took it seriously, but since then we've refused to take relay calls. If we hear the operator say "This is a relay call" we interrupt and say "Sorry, we don't take relay calls" and then HANG UP. If you don't hang up, the operator will say "hold" while they type out the message and then wait for a response. Waste..of...goddamn...time. Slamming the reciever down helps. If there's any people who genuinely use the service...sorry, we just can't afford to spend hours wading through these phone calls to get to you.
Yes, Hang up! (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~stefan)
If the person calls back 2 or 3 times, you might want to take the call, however. The scammers/people who aren't who they say they are won't have you do that. The real deaf people are used to that, so they have you call back a few times in hopes to get a different person who will take the call, or give you a chance to convince the person to talk.
But if you still have no intention of taking the call, just hang up, saying as little as possible.
It saves the operators a lot of trouble.
Re:We've gotten this (Score:4, Funny)
I don't sell laptops and I don't ship overseas. If the caller asks why, I say that I am a retail store and prefer that my customers pick up their merchandise in person. My final defense, which I haven't had to use yet, is to say that I only sell the Commodore Amiga.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~stefan)
Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.demaagd.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 27 2002, @06:53PM)
Thankfully, legitimate deaf people can use the internet to make their orders, a lot quicker I would guess.
Re:We've gotten this (Score:5, Informative)
That being said, I would recommend at least listening to the first sentence of the caller before thinking about hanging up. Just yesterday I called a local computer shop to check the price of a power supply, and the conversation was quick and polite. (I doubt nigerian scammers would want to buy a $60 power supply and ask about the store hours). Here's approximately how a conversation goes: (other end begins with a colon)
: dialing... 1... 2... answered... (male) thank you for calling computershop inc. how can i help you q ga
hello. what is your lowest price on a 500 watt power supply q ga
: let me check one moment (hold music) I have one for 59 90 ga
thank you. and what time are you open until tonight q ga
: 6 pm ga
thanks a lot ga to sk
: thank you (call ended)
: ga or sk
ca thank you sk
: sksk
A little terminology: "ga" means "go ahead", "q ga" is asking a question, "ga to sk" is signaling that you wish to end the conversation ("sk" meaning "stop keying"), "ga or sk" is essentially the CA asking "is there anything else I can do for you?", at which point I thank him/her and signal the end of the conversation. "sksk" is the final signal that the conversation is over.
playing by the rules (Score:1, Insightful)
for everyone, be they terrorists, scammers or
script kiddies.
It takes a lot of work to make something, abuse
or destruction is so much easier.
Free matter for the blind. (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.reames.org/)
I read about it several (over 15) years ago in some magazine. Basically when mailing a letter instead of a stamp you just write free matter for the blind.
I think I may have tried it once back then to send myself a letter just to see if it worked. Can't remember if it did though.
Some Good Examples of Deaf Relay (TTY) Abuse (Score:2, Informative)
http://phonelosers.org/sound.html [phonelosers.org]
Specifcally this one which would probably get you a trip to camp X-ray today
Phone_Losers_of_America_0118_Deaf_Relay_Commuter_
419 Scammers ? (Score:3, Funny)
Mh, I wonder how they counted that there were precisely 419 of them.
I've had this happen where I work. (Score:3, Interesting)
The most annoying part was the amount of time it took to complete the calls. I can't be rude to a
funny idea (Score:1)
ofcourse (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/)
You know how difficult (and expensive) it is to both track down the people and get a conviction? Laws are made on a national level, institutions such as police and justice departements are also pretty much bound to their specific country (unless you just act as if you own the world), hence international crime has little or no resistance. I mean, why would you care if the crime has been committed elsewhere?...
Same with spam, really. Most spam I receive comes from scumbags on US soil, and it's pretty hard to harm them from here. As opposed to local spammers: a friend of mine once made a real-life visit when he received a spam email from a company not far from where he lives. He didn't get any spam anymore from that company.
That might be a viable solution to the spam problem anyway: just a global team-up of people willing to visit spammers living close to their own home. I'm not implying a violent posse here. Even a criminal would get a clue when there's suddenly a bunch of very pissed off people in front of his/her door.
Simple Fix... (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday October 02 2002, @10:14PM)
Here's a simple fix:
Change the TTY/Realy number to a 1-900 numner and charge calls from whereever ther're made. Say $1.00 a minuite.
Then every month - Registered and bonified deaf people can submit a copy of their telephone invoice to the Federal Government and get a refund check for the amount used.
People who abuse the system without being daaf get to pay for it - deaf people get this vital service for free.
Easy solution? (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.geekinformed.com/)
A possible solution (Score:2)
What am I missing here?
legality of aiding in illgeal things (Score:2, Interesting)
(http://www.anreabhloid.org/)
is the opperator still required to facilitate the conversation and keep quiet? isn't that then like, being an accessory to the crime, maybe even conspiricy? If they call the police, then is that evidence or witness testimony inadmissible for breaking the confidentiality of the service?
Big money maker for companies providing relay (Score:3, Insightful)
Relay companies get paid XX amount of dollars per day, assuming they can meet a certain service level. They have to answer calls queued into their system within a certain period of time. Every call that isn't answered is counted against their running total.
If a relay company falls below a certain percent (it's around 80% or so in a 24 hour period of time), they receive NO MONEY for that day. For the company I worked at, they had 1 day last year where they failed to maintain the standard. The amount of money lost for 1 day? Approaching $3 million according to management.
Anyone saying that business isn't a money making enterprise is full of BS.
You think you have it bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.financialaidpodcast.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday April 11 2004, @05:45PM)
It's really sad, but there will always be those whose work ethic embodies the tragedy of the commons to the fullest.
sites fighting the 419 scammers (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.isthe.com/chongo/index.html | Last Journal: Saturday December 25 2004, @08:19AM)
- Websites Fighting the Nigerian Scam/419 [rica.net]
- Nigerian Advance Fee Scam [scambusters.org]
- US Secret Service on 419 [secretservice.gov]
- Break The Chain [breakthechain.org]
- 419 Coalition [rica.net] (as noted in the article)
Here are a few sites dedicated to exposing 419 scammers in an interesting and/or amusing way:this reminds me... (Score:1)
So, basically this is nothing new.
by the way, it's at http://www.sprintrelayonline.com/
Why? (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Saturday October 27, @04:36PM)
I suppose the scammers realize their accents or (relatively) poor grasp of English might make the recipient of the calls suspicious, but it seems that TTY calls are rare enough to garner attention of their own. Are the scammers that short-sighted?
Or is it related to Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [penny-arcade.com] and the scammers don't have the nerve to try pulling the scam "face-to-face"?
At any rate, how much to these TTY terminals cost?
I'm a Sprint Relay operator, here's my take: (Score:1, Interesting)
First of all we are not supposed to process International calls. If the CA determines the user is from outside the US there is a phrase that is typed. The problem is trying to convince a supervisor that 80.179 is Israel. They barely know what an IP address is let alone the use of whois to determine the ownership of a block of IP's.
The problem is they can't! The FCC has everything all fucked up.
Improve the entire system , make it a hate crime? (Score:1)
(http://slashdot.org/)
There should be double the punishment for committing the crime of ID fraud than there is now. Thrice when done under the guise of using services for the disabled -- a hate crime of sorts.
A scammer stole a vital resource to an upright member of society; a call to a doctor perhaps for urgent assistance, calling for a ride for personal saftety reasons (night, weather, etc). This would constitute a double theft and causing a societal safety issue that makes it a hate crime as it exploits a protected group, the disabled.
Also many watchdogs urge that society demand that _Free_ credit reports be given to victims of credit/ID theft be given for 5 years after each & every breach. For repeated breaches (when not the user's fault) the credit agency and merchant _not_ the consumer should be held accountable.
Both merchants that took stolen numbers and the credit agencies should be fine each other heavily till they start insisting the everyone improve the authentication mechanisms of their credit systems.
Merchants and Credit bureaus should not by legislation be allowed to pass monetary loss onto consumers.
I'm suspecting that soon TTY centers will have the international calling flags installed like most credit card processing centers. These typically let the operator know the call is somehow not originating from inside the country.
Although with outsourcing this is going to be sticky to impliment.
Internal IP-Relay memo regarding certain threats: (Score:1, Informative)
Design Date: 08/01/01
Designer: Face
CALL SET-UP
Condition: Caller states there is a bomb
Follow Center procedure to call supervisor
Ask WHEN WILL BOMB EXPLODE Q GA
Ask WHERE IS BOMB NOW QQ GA
Ask WHAT DOES BOMB LOOK LIKE Q GA
Ask WHAT KIND OF BOMB IS IT QQ GA
Ask WHAT WILL CAUSE BOMB TO EXPLODE Q GA
Ask DID YOU PLACE THE BOMB QQ GA
Ask WHY Q GA
Ask WHAT IS UR ADDRESS Q GA
Ask WHAT IS UR NAME Q GA
NOTE Tone of voice/background sounds/type of language used
Allow Operations manager/supervisor to take over
IF DURING A CALL, A CALLER STATES THERE IS A BOMB IN THE RELAY CENTER
Relay call as usual
Remember CONFIDENTIALITY IS A FEDERAL MANDATE!
GETTING STARTED CALL PROCESSING BILLING OPTIONS TROUBLE SHOOTING ABBREVIATIONS BOMB THREAT
Had direct experience with this... (Score:1)
(http://goodbloglive.blogspot.com/)
I remember one call where I told them "We have a system that costs $900." They immediately responded with "Yes, we want twenty of those." No haggling, no questions about CPU, RAM, or anything else. I just told them the price and they said they wanted twenty. At this point I told the operator to tell them to stop calling us, and that we're not stupid enough to fall for their scam (I think that was the third time I'd talked to them).
Holy Crap!!! (Score:1)
I wonder where they draw the line.
Are people upset that the calls can't be logged?
Are people upset that the users don't have to register and log in?
I've heard so many people complain about these issues in other contexts, and its funny to see people here advocate the other side, just because of one puny article!
Hahahahaha...
TTY scamming nothing new (Score:2)
(http://vftp.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday December 09 2006, @09:52PM)
This apparently has been going on for the last several years, so it's nothing new. I was surprised just how many of these calls we get - there must be quite a few scammers out there running through the phonebooks looking for a mark.
Reverse DNS??? (Score:1)
I, sirs, am a relay operator. (Score:3, Informative)
BUT:
I work for MCI Worldcom as a relay operator. More specifically, the California Relay Service (CRS). Our center handles calls from IP-RELAY.com (so do the Arizona Relay, the Tennessee Relay, and the Wisconsin Relay, if anyone cares). So all day, it's prank calls and Nigerian scammers. There are a few deaf people using the service, but not many. The signal-to-noise ratio is much too low, so to speak. I make a few measly dollars and hour to put up with this sort of shit. (But at least the health benefits are okay)
It's always Ghanans and Nigerians. Every single fucking time. Not Koreans or Israelis or anyone else. Most are in Accra, Ghana.
They buy very few computers, despite what the article says. Mostly, they call printing shops to order blank T-shirts. I'm not really very sure why printing, silkscreening, and embroidery shops would even sell blank white T-shirts in the first place, but they do. Did I mention it's always XXL and XXXL shirts? Don't let those Sally Struthers commercials fool you; people in Ghana are fucking CHUBBY.
Today, it was wedding dresses. I'm curious why people don't get suspicious when someone wants to order 6 wedding gowns over the phone. Especially when they don't care what sizes or styles, just the price. Not extra large, though, oddly enough, so maybe they're not all as chubby as it seems.
Some days it's shoes. Some days it's designer perfume. Or gold wristwatches. And some days it is in fact computers.
And 99% of the time, the credit card is declined. And 90% of the time when that happens, the fucking moron at whichever shop I'm calling will actually ask the person if they have another card. They always have a spare, sometimes with a completely different name.
Things to look for, if you're a store:
- The scammer will always ask to have the shop run the credit card while they are on the line. This means, in stores with only one line, that the credit card machine will AUTOMATICALLY approve the card if it passes whatever obscure checksum process they go through. Nice trick.
- The scammer will, if pressed for a phone number, say that it's not currently working. They don't claim to be deaf and have no phone, which is actually pretty common among the deaf. Instead, they give a phone number with too many digits to be a US number, or an email address. This email address will be composed of a foreign-sounding name, but it will NOT match the name the person gave on the card.
- The total price will be just shy of $10,000 to avoid hitting the card's limit, OR it will be some multiple of that, and the scammer will have several cards.
So, every now and then the scammer gets someone to ship him something, be it a half dozen BMW radiators or a $9000.00 Bernina commercial grade sewing machine. He gets his payoff. Congratulations, you stupid sons of bitches, you've successfully stolen things. What do you do with the money?
You give it to terrorists, of course, so they can go to pilot school. Allah Akbar! (or whatever) Thank goodness for weak extradition treaties, otherwise this wouldn't be possible.
So do the executives at MCI know about all of this? Of course. The government is giving them a whole fucking load of money every day to keep the relay centers open. Hope it's worth it, guys. As for me, I'm out of there as soon as I get my book written (never).
Only one of many ways (Score:1, Interesting)
Logging conversations for later access would be an immense privacy violation, putting the TTY-using deaf/dumb population at yet another disadvantage. A lot of it wouldn't even be useful with the only traceable information being the IP address of the Internet connection (unless some reference was made in the call... which could easily be fabricated).
It does seem logical to verify that the users of this system are deaf/dumb & are in need of this service. But this would add a whole new layer of nessesary infrastructure to the TTY system. I can think of no foolproof test {online or in person} for the lack of speech or hearing, which can both be faked without too much effort. Even if we were able to obtain such information perfectly, it is unlikely that much useful could be done with it. A government listing of hearing impaired persons & unique ID numbers? With this time of nationwide government database integration & information mining, it would be wise to consider the effects of yet another well-seeming database & its effects in strenghtening the informational power of the feds over the populace. Consider this too: the assignment of "hearing impared" authorization #s or IDs will not significantly hinder criminals who already make a business of illegally obtaining similar uniquely-identifying, supposedly confidential, information.
The responsibility rests on both ends of the transaction. The middleman simply does not have the resources to effectively intervene, nor the responsibility for what is being anonymously forwarded.
a bit confused... (Score:1, Informative)
I think i'm missing something..
Moreover, I'd like to add, as a child of 2 deaf parents, that is extremely frustrating and saddening when companies hang up on the relay service. Deaf people are PEOPLE. Would you hang up on a hearing person for trying to place an order? Extremely, extremely rude..
I *figured* that was what was going on.... (Score:1)
(http://frenchytheyanqui.easyjournal.com/)
We got another one prior to this, although not through a TTY service, by a guy who claimed to be a U.S. soldier stationed at Guantanamo Bay, and he needed a satellite service setup. He wanted us, though, to ship it only to New York. Not only did I think it extremely likely that a US soldier would need us to send him a satellite setup, and even less likely that he'd be allowed to admit he was at Gitmo, but he didn't even introduce himself officially - it came out later in the conversaton. Suspicious, I began asking for a lot of information - like an email address, and he gave me a Yahoo one, rather than a US military address. I told him we couldn't help him out, and that night I reported it to the FBI.
The boss told me later he'd almost been duped by one of these guys, although the product never got shipped because he began to smell a scam and he cancelled the order at the last minute (my boss did, not the scammer). Our sort of unofficial policy now is we don't ship out of state unless it's for a customer we already know.
Re:That's just cruel (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/)
It's also logical. Do you steal a lolly pop from a kid, or from a big-ass professional boxer?
I mean, you can't really expect thieves to have a superior sense of morality, do you...
Re:DEAF AND DUMB (Score:1, Offtopic)
(http://www.jenkatgames.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 07 2003, @03:00AM)
Death person? Is that another term for Zombie?
Ok... here goes... a smart death person:
John Kerry
Re:DEAF AND DUMB (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.networkmirror.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 05, @04:34PM)
Re:TTY stands for (Score:2, Informative)
Re:DEAF AND DUMB (Score:1)
Although I guess I'm not all that smart - I bothered reply to a troll post on a slashdot article, when I usually read at 4+.
'death'. I dearly hope your spelling is the worst of your faults.