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Censorship Privacy Your Rights Online

Indian Police Demand Internet Monitoring In Bombay 33

h4rm0ny writes "Both the BBC and the Houston Chronicle are running stories about planned monitoring of customers at cyber cafes in Bombay. Cafe owners have responded by organising into a group to oppose the moves.
The police want cafes to demand photo id, a home address and maintain records of access for at least a year. The Great Deamons of Justification have been invoked - Terrorism, Paedophillia, Hackers and in this case Users of Adult Sites. On the cafe owner's part - they are countering with questions of liability for verifying customer details and the issues of privacy.
India remains a country with a very low percentage of the population having their own internet connection. Bombay's 3000 cafes are used by approximately 1.5 million people so these new laws would give the police much larger scope to monitor people's online behaviour than in other countries.
Other Indian cities are watching the results closely."
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Indian Police Demand Internet Monitoring In Bombay

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  • I can't imagine that there is a way that this can actually stop anything. Laws and censorship never work in any country. What makes India different? And if not, why should cafe owners be forced to pay extra for filters? "If you take away the right to say fuck, you take away the right to say 'fuck the government'" - Lenny Bruce -Kosher Beef Jerky (Two For One Deal!)
    • Re:Censorship (Score:2, Informative)

      by senzafine ( 630873 )
      India's government and police don't work on much of a checks and balances system. So they can do whatever they want really. Last time I went to india I had to pay an extra $100 cash because I was taking in electronics and the customs police knew I was from the US. I didn't have an option of going to a supervisor...because the supervisor was in on a cut of the $100.
  • Do you get your own room to masturbate to online porn? Do you do it out in the open?
  • Broadband (Score:3, Informative)

    by baywulf ( 214371 ) on Tuesday January 27, 2004 @11:59PM (#8109475)
    I went to India late last year for a visit and found out that two or three of the medium sized cities that I visited to my surprise had cable modems available to the general population. Pricing was at par with the US taking into account currency conversion rate and cost of living. Not many people subscribe though because computers are not common except with the tech savvy people.
  • by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @12:07AM (#8109544) Journal
    Other Indian cities are watching the results closely.

    Hell, I'm watching it closely. How is this too different from what presidential candidate Howard Dean proposed for this country? [metafilter.com]

    Oh, right, Dean proposed that all computers, whether in an internet cafe or in your home, be equipped with a card reader to scan your national id card* prior to letting you access the internet.

    * Ok, inter-operable state-issued id cards.

    (Please note, up until hearing about this I was leaning Dean in my search for the right "Anybody But Bush" candidate. But since my major problem with Bush is his administration's willingness to abrogate our civil rights, I want to be sure that the Democrat I vote for will protect our traditional American rights. And Dean had already raised concerns with Vermont's ACLU when he announced that views about privacy would change post 9-11.)
    • Vote Clark. You'll be glad you did. Here's some snippets from his Manufacturing Plan [clark04.com]:

      STOP REWARDING COMPANIES THAT MOVE JOBS OVERSEAS AND START REWARDING COMPANIES THAT PRODUCE IN AMERICA

      Require companies to disclose layoffs in America and job increases overseas. Consumer, investors, and workers all have the right to know which companies are moving which jobs overseas. As President, Wes Clark would work to develop a system of timely reporting to ensure that we have timely and accurate information on com
      • Sorry, but anyone with the belief that abortion should be legal up to 2 seconds before birth is an idiot.

        "Clark told a New Hampshire newspaper that "life begins with the mother's decision," adding that abortion should be allowed all the way up through the baby's head coming out of the womb."
    • Ok, I get this comment in M2, and I'm thinking "troll, and not a very good one, either." But I'm curious, so I check out the com.com.com.com source [com.com] for the blog entry:

      Dean also suggested that computer makers such as Apple Computer, Dell, Gateway and Sony should be required to include an ID card reader in PCs--and Americans would have to insert their uniform IDs into the reader before they could log on. "One state's smart-card driver's license must be identifiable by another state's card reader," Dean sai
  • I *literally* heared of this via the 'Go Digiatal' [bbc.co.uk] stream [bbc.co.uk].
    • what this story, but which 'Go Digital' didn't miss was that they have only FOUR people employed to monitor these cafes

      kinda makes you wonder how they'll try to implement this with success.

      PS - I DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE *old news.. for $sme*

  • by _LORAX_ ( 4790 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @12:12AM (#8109587) Homepage

    It sounds crappy but this could lead, finally, to the understanding that anything plaintext can be tapped/subpoena'ed/copied and that the only true way to protect your identity and your communications is with encryption.

    Police snooping will only further legitimize encryption in your day to day communications (for the average citizen).
  • Hmmm (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by $exyNerdie ( 683214 )
    I don't know how good it will be even with the basic encryption used to communicate. If two parties decide that word "x" means "y" and so on and then just use their new language to communicate, it will be very difficult to decipher because most of the real indian talent is either in private industries or in western countries. The people who work in IT for Bombay police etc. probably don't even understand TCP/IP very well..... I believe this will be misused more than really used for anything good for society
  • Apparently (halfway down the screen on my monitor) Bombay is now called Mumbai.
  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @01:42AM (#8110079) Homepage
    Well of course the police want more powers. Their job is to "fight crime" and they believe that power to search will help.

    On individual cases, it might. Unfortunately, the cost to greater society in terms of intimidation and abuse are higher than the benefits of solving the crime.

    Freedom isn't just philosophically attractive, it is also extremely pragmatic. It increases human happiness and productivity. Unfortunately. police are seldom happy people and cannot recognize this value.

    I cannot think of any major criminal activity that can be done on the Internet, still less in the restricted environment of a cybercafe. Sure, threats and extortion can be communicated, but these are accessory to the crime contemplated/committed.

    • I cannot think of any major criminal activity that can be done on the Internet, still less in the restricted environment of a cybercafe. Sure, threats and extortion can be communicated, but these are accessory to the crime contemplated/committed.

      Try Fraud and Identity Theft.
  • The Great Deamons of Justification have been invoked - Terrorism, Paedophillia, Hackers and in this case Users of Adult Sites.

    I think you were trying to write daemon [google.com], but in this context, it's just demon [google.com].
  • Won't happen. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by The Cydonian ( 603441 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @03:47AM (#8110639) Homepage Journal
    Trust me, if the cyber-cafe-owners have organised themselves, then there's no power out there who can stop them, especially the police. Not to cheer these cartel groups mind you, just pointing out how things work in India.

    Incidentally, if I recall correctly, the city police in Hyderabad did try to bring in a similar move some two years back or so; the cyber-cafe-owners association there apparently resisted the measure successfully. The police now only insist that the computers be placed in cubicles with clear windows, mainly to discourage folks from browsing porn.

    Personally, I think stuff like this (much like that earlier banning of that insurgent group's YahooGroups thing) is indicative of two things urgently required in India:-

    a) An EFF-like group to charter and fight for maintaining the constitution's libertarian values,
    b) Greater awareness among the Indian public of the issues involved, particularly, the right to privacy and other cyber-legal issues.

    (Or if there already is such a group, I'd be great if someone could, perhaps, point their URL out or something.)

  • This is the same country that recently banned yahoogroups [rediff.com].

    Cencorship and monitoring are standard fare in India and the only reason it isn't much more widespread is that the population is huge and the government isn't tech savvy enough to do anything 1984-ish.

    • Re:Remember (Score:3, Interesting)

      Here is a relevant article [outlookindia.com] on the challenges to free speech faced by independent India. The short summary:- Article 19 (our Fundamental Right to free speech) faces a greater danger in India from mob-raj and special interest groups, rather than Bade Bhai (Big Brother in Hindi), although the danger does exist to a limited extent.

      In any case, the YahooGroups incident, methinks, is actually shows that the situation isn't as dire as you might think; consider, for instance, the fact that CERT-India's discussion

  • Two points (Score:3, Informative)

    by L-s-L69 ( 700599 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @05:31AM (#8111019)
    I read this yesterday morning on the BBC news site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3431645.stm compared to what China is involved in this is peanuts http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3434 115.stm
  • one word: HTTPort (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by js7a ( 579872 ) *
    It looks like India could be joining Saudi Arabia and China [bbc.co.uk] in the list of countries where HTTPort [ssimicro.com] is an essential install.
  • ...according to the California Court of Appeal, it's perfectly Constitutional to require videotaping of cyber cafe patrons in Garden Grove, California [ca.gov] unless the California Supreme Court or the U.S. Supreme Court decides otherwise.

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