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Privacy United States Your Rights Online

Passenger Risk Database to be Implemented in U.S. 510

Posted by michael from the bend-over dept.
bluephile writes "CNN is running an article on the The Transport Security Administration's (TSA) renewed efforts to implement the CAPPS II color-coded passenger risk-assessment program, despite outcries by numerous privacy activism groups at the program's collection and redistribution of personal information. The TSA has made several claims that the system respects passengers' privacy, but their track record isn't impressive. Congress suspended the program last year in order to investigate its privacy implications. One MIT paper suggests that CAPPS II could make flying MORE dangerous, rather than less."
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Passenger Risk Database to be Implemented in U.S. More

Passenger Risk Database to be Implemented in U.S.

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  • What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by m3j00 ( 606453 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [uoyeem]> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:39PM (#7967092)
    Airplanes can't be hijacked anymore after 9/11. People now realize that it's not a matter of demanding your comrade be released from prison, but instead a matter of taking control of the world's biggest bomb. Nobody is going to yield to a terrorist carrying anything short of an automatic firearm.

    • Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by crow ( 16139 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:50PM (#7967227) Homepage Journal
      Exactly. The point isn't to improve security. The point is to make the public belive that they are secure and the the government is taking action.

      Initially after 11 September, people were afraid to fly, so the government did everything possible to save the airline industry by providing the appearance of security. Now we're reaching the point where the added security is discouraging people from flying, so the government is looking for new ways of handling security. Unfortunately, they don't understand that it's not just a matter of how much time the checkpoints take, but the overall feeling of being treated as a suspect. Also, the people in the new DoHS want to feel important, so they want to have new security measures to show that they're doing something.

    • Re:What's the point? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:56PM (#7967310) Homepage Journal
      I don't know why you ended up posting at "0", unless your post is a kernel of corn in a pile of shit... I hope at least you get moderated up. You are quite right!

      As soon as the passengers of Flight 93 found out what was going on (thank god for cell phones), they jumped the terrorists and undoubtedly prevented more death and destruction.

      As soon passangers on Flight 63 noticed Richard Reid trying to light his shoe on fire, he was jumped, pinned, and prevented an explosion which most likely would have killed everyone on board.

      The terrorists got their free shot. It's not going to be so easy next time.
    • You're right. After 9/11, airplanes are perfectly safe places for terrorists to be. Why do we even bother checking for IDs at all? Terrorists should be free to fly anywhere they want.

  • As the Daily Show recommended (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:39PM (#7967095)
    The solution to stopping terrorism on flights is two-fold. One, everyone travels naked, without carrying thing on the plane. Two, luggage goes on a second plane operated by robots.

  • Oooh, Color-Coded!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by lucabrasi999 ( 585141 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:40PM (#7967106) Journal
    color-coded passenger risk-assessment program

    Color Coded, eh? Now I can sleep easier at night, knowing I am protectected by a color coded system. I wonder if this will be about as useless as our fabled Homeland Security "Orange Alerts"?


    • Right on! Imagine how much more effective computers would be if they represented all data in terms of reds and greens instead of ones and zeros!
    • The color coding system is here so that Bush can CYA in front of the media when the next terrorist attack hits: "see, we told you it wasn't green".

      It also allows Bush and Fox News to label anyone criticizing the system "weak on national security issues" and therefore "not presidential" for the next election.

      Thanks Mr Ridge, may I have another?

    • Re:Oooh, Color-Coded!!! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Carnildo ( 712617 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:59PM (#7967353) Homepage Journal
      I wonder if this will be about as useless as our fabled Homeland Security "Orange Alerts"?

      In order for this to be as useless as the Homeland Security system, they'd need to ground all airplanes every time someone gets red-flagged. The Homeland Security system is so broad in its effects, every time the security level is raised, police throughout the country, even in places terrorists couldn't care less about, need to put in overtime guarding pointless "targets". For example, a village with a population of 50 in the middle of Wyoming would be required to have a full-time guard on the water tower!

      • Re:Oooh, Color-Coded!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Polyphemis ( 450226 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @07:06PM (#7968047)
        For example, a village with a population of 50 in the middle of Wyoming would be required to have a full-time guard on the water tower!

        Great example. That reminds me of something I found interesting. Earlier this year, I got in a conversation with someone that worked for the Oklahoma Department of Transportation whose job became miserable because of these terror alerts. Every time one came down the wire, they had to send crews out to every major overpass in Oklahoma every hour as well as performing mass inspections over all the major roads in the state every single day. Everyone there had to work overtime all the time to keep all that going for every alert. The alerts became so frequent and proved to be so pointless that the entire department actually started deliberately ignoring the warnings because it cost them SO much time, effort money to respond to them while other, more important things weren't getting done.
  • be put on the list.

    If they didn't hate America they wouldn't be on the list. ;)

  • Only for one flight... (Score:5, Funny)

    by c4seyj0nes ( 669515 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:40PM (#7967112)
    Well they'll only get me for one flight...As i move to Canada...
    • Well they'll only get me for one flight...As i move to Canada...

      I'm not going to fly. I've got too much stuff that the luggage screeners would object to -- if they were paying attention.
  • The links actually post to the same paper in MIT. Perhaps the second link was fupped ?

  • Last two links both lead to the same page!

    Proofreading is optional in internet journalism, apparently.

  • Thank god for DVD players in cars now... That will make those 3 day trips cross country with the family much quieter.

    --
    This sig has a bad credit report

  • This is just ONE of the reasons I don't fly. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AgTiger ( 458268 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:46PM (#7967176) Homepage
    This may be obvious, but this is yet one more reason that re-affirms my pre-9/11 decision to not fly anymore unless I'm absolutely forced into it, and I'm very inventive about finding justification for other means (such as driving).

    I've had it with the airline industry and their rather poor attempt at feel-good security (which isn't security at all). I have no intention of becoming part of the grand experiment of how an agency or company can screw up and compromise my financial records and my privacy even more. I simply will not be their guinea pig.

    The more complex they make these systems, the more points of failure they add.

    I'm lucky in that I'm at a job that doesn't require me to fly, and anywhere I need to reach in North America, I can do so with my car. Properly planned without a panic-timeframe schedule, such trips can actually be enjoyable, in and of themselves.

    • Properly planned without a panic-timeframe schedule, such trips can actually be enjoyable, in and of themselves.

      You obviously have no need to drive to L.A. then, eh?

    • Re:This is just ONE of the reasons I don't fly. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Domino ( 12558 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:59PM (#7967354) Homepage
      I've had it with the airline industry and their rather poor attempt at feel-good security (which isn't security at all). I have no intention of becoming part of the grand experiment of how an agency or company can screw up and compromise my financial records and my privacy even more. I simply will not be their guinea pig.

      So what will you when every toll road you travel on by car passes your travel details automatically to law enforcement based on your license plate? Or when one day every intersection has a camera collecting this kind of information? Or when there's a camera doing face recognition on every street corner, evaluating whether you are a terrorist or not? Will you just stay at home all day? I think a more proactive stance is needed here. Just boycotting the airline industry is not going to do much at all.

      Getting the general public to understand the privacy implications of these systems so they stop voting for people that put them in place is probably a lot more effective.

    • "...and anywhere I need to reach in North America, I can do so with my car.

      Shhhhh!!! The "terrorists" might read this!!!

  • Fax your legislators! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Omega ( 1602 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:46PM (#7967181) Homepage
    Bluephile [aclu.org] forgot [aclu.org] the [aclu.org] most [aclu.org] important [aclu.org] link [aclu.org].

    Click here [aclu.org] to do something about this.

  • CHECK YOUR CREDIT SCORE BEFORE YOU FLY (Score:5, Funny)

    by clevelandguru ( 612010 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:46PM (#7967183)
    If you have a bad credit score, be prepared for a full body cavity search.

  • Idiocy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:48PM (#7967196)
    If the idea is to test whether CAPPS II can accurately determine the risk level of a potential flyer, I don't see how they can accomplish this with data from old passengers. Don't they also need data on how much each of those passengers ended up BEING a RISK?

    I don't know how you'd even begin to come up with such data. But if you can't figure out how much of a risk each passenger actually was, how can you see whether this correlates with the risk score CAPPS spits out? As far as I can see, this massive breach of passenger confidentiality will do nothing to test the efficacy of CAPPS.

    (As far as I know, no terrorist acts have been committed on JetBlue, so all passengers who have flown on JetBlue should have been given the "Green" CAPPS rating. Hence once they feed this passenger data through CAPPS, it better spit out low risk for everybody. Otherwise, this profiling obviously isn't working.)

  • Credit reports? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Experiment 626 ( 698257 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:48PM (#7967199)

    Credit reports? Yes, I'll admit it, I got my car payment in the mail late last February. Is that really a sign that I'm part of an Al-Qaeda hijacking conspiracy?

    • Re:Credit reports? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by BitterOak ( 537666 )
      People with bad credit ratings aren't the ones who are going to be flagged by this system. It's the people with little or no credit ratings. It's not the people who are late with car payments, but rather the people who paid cash for their car that are in trouble.

      • "It's the people with little or no credit ratings."

        So you mean if I choose to live my life 'offline', I'm now a security risk? You mean if I'm a teenager or in my early 20s and haven't bought anything of significant value (in terms of that which would require credit application), then I'm a terrorist? Personally, I don't have much credit at all. I'm in my 20s, haven't bought a home, have paid cash for all three cars I've owned, and don't use credit cards. Please explain why stopping me and the tens of tho

    • Re:Credit reports? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by pcraven ( 191172 )
      I would guess it works something like SpamAssassin. You've got a bunch of attributes and it goes to your score.

      Like if you are 40 years old, and you have a credit report that shows you never taking a loan or having an account balance, that would be unusual.

      If you have had a house mortgage for the last 20 years, that would lower your score.

    • Re:Credit reports? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jelle ( 14827 )
      What I'm worried about is that every time they pull your credit report, your rating goes down. Lower ratings means higher interest on any loan/mortgage/etc.

      If they pull a credit report for each ticket, then personally I prefer a luggage search over a higher interest rate. Otherwise it makes those airplane tickets rather expensive...

      But I haven't seen a confirmation yet that they are actually pulling a credit report from one of 'the three'. Maybe they're using an intermediate company that collects copies o

  • So what if I'm a student? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AnotherFreakboy ( 730662 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:48PM (#7967206)

    1. I have no credit history because I have little income and can't get a credit card.
    2. I pay cash because I can get a discount
    3. I buy a one way ticket because I wont be returning until I have earned enough money to afford a return journey
    Will I be barred from travel? I think I might. At the very least I'm likely to be detained for further questioning.
    • OK Osama, take off your mask!

    • Now, try imagining you meet those three criteria and also have semetic features and an Arab or muslim name.

    • Re:So what if I'm a student? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:16PM (#7967534)
      > 1.I have no credit history because I have little income and can't get a credit card.
      > 2.I pay cash because I can get a discount
      > 3.I buy a one way ticket because I wont be returning until I have earned enough money to afford a return journey
      >
      > Will I be barred from travel? I think I might. At the very least I'm likely to be detained for further questioning.

      If it were up to me, "no". Your profile (low income, student, poor credit history) is consistent with each other and with the profile of law-abiding people who purchase one-way tickets with cash. Shit happens to good folks, and if you're buying a last-minute one-way ticket with cash, it's probably because that's the only way you're going to be able to afford your trip.

      I'm on the opposite end of that scale. Middle-class income, well-documented employment history, great credit rating. If I showed up at an airline counter asking for a one-way ticket and paying with cash, I'd fully expect the royal treatment, up to and including the body cavity search. Because the act of paying cash for a one-way ticket is inconsistent with everything else in my profile. So if I buy a last-minute one-way ticket with cash, I'm probably trying to hide something.

      The right thing to do in all cases (credit card, round-trip, cash, or one-way) is to ask questions like "When will you be returning?" "Where are you going?" "What are you doing there?" "Who are you meeting there?" "How will you be returning?" Maybe a few "control" questions there like "what's the weather like in $CITY" or "What's going on in $CITY?" - the interrogator doesn't have to know the answer to any of the questions, he/she is merely looking for evasive behavior in the face of the target.

      Odds are that you'll have a much better set of answers ("Dude! I need a discount to see my aunt in Peoria and I'll get the money to get back from her! Haven't you ever had to do that before? And the Hot Rawk Dawgz are teh UBER Peoria bar band! Whaddya mean you've never heard of HRD? Go to hotrawkdawgz.com, they've got MP3z there an' everything!") than I will.

      ("Umm, I... I'm seeing... uh, my... friend... yeah, friend, we're gonna see the... Eiffel Tower! What? The Eiffel Tower's not in Peoria?! But my girlfriend has a dildo shaped just li-oh, shit, that slipped, look, my wife's gonna kill me, she thinks I'm traveling on company business, just get me on the goddamn plane, willya?")

      End result: We both get to go to Peoria. But any astute observer would have realized that I was lying long before I even slipped up and mentioned the Eiffel Tower.

      The problem with the system as envisioned is that it still requires an astute observer. The drone at the ticket counter certainly doesn't qualify. And I'm afraid that most of the TSA folks don't qualify either.

      I hope that the interrogators for folks who do match the enemy's profile, are trained to detect evasiveness.

      • Re:So what if I'm a student? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Loki_1929 ( 550940 ) * on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @07:00PM (#7968010) Journal
        "I'd fully expect the royal treatment, up to and including the body cavity search."

        Why? The right to travel is a fundamental liberty. To be subject to interrogation and invasive searchs is contrary to every principle upon which this nation was founded.

        "So if I buy a last-minute one-way ticket with cash, I'm probably trying to hide something."

        Where is it written that you must purchase a ticket at a certain time in a certain way? By the way, did it ever occurr to you that Al Qaeda or other similar groups could easily defeat this by using a high-interest credit card to purchase the ticket in advance? The fact that some have done it one way doesn't mean that all have or will. What will you do if terrorists change their buying patterns? Let the cash-paying people on fast so you have plenty of time to strip-search the people who bought tickets in advance with credit cards? Brilliant idea.

        "ask questions like"

        [TSA Lackey]: "When will you be returning?"
        [Me]: "Whenever I feel like it."
        [TSA Lacket]: "Where are you going?"
        [Me]: "If it were any of your business, I'd tell you to look at the ticket. But it's not, so I won't."
        [TSA Lackey]: "What are you doing there?"
        [Me]: "Figured I'd rent some porn, jack off, maybe get a hooker or two. What the hell business is it of your's what I do in my personal life, on my personal time?"
        [TSA Lackey]: "Who are you meeting there?"
        [Me]: "Tony Blair and Pope John Paul the second. Again, your question is irrelevant, invasive, and pointless."
        [TSA Lackey]: "How will you be returning?"
        [Me]: (Getting pissed off)"By row boat."
        [TSA Lackey]: "what's the weather like in $CITY"
        [Me]: "Don't know, I can't see that far. Why don't you try checking the Weather Channel instead of bugging me."

        "I hope that the interrogators for folks who do match the enemy's profile, are trained to detect evasiveness."

        Enemy's profile? And just what would that be? John Walker Lindh was a young, suburban, American white male. Osama bin Ladin is an older male Arab. The guys who tried to bring bombs into the US to blow things up during the Y2K celebrations were middle-aged Algerians. So let's see, the enemy is either black, white, or brown - is either American, African, or Middle Eastern - is either young, middle-aged, or older - are we getting the picture yet? What's the profile? What does my enemy look like? What language does my enemy speak? English? German? Arabic? All of the above? What's the profile?

        You want a better solution to the problems? Let's see, how about we search ALL baggage that's going on to an airplane with good, sound bomb, chemical, and weapons detection devices. Ones with possible problem materials or ones that cannot be properly scanned can be pulled aside for further analysis, including hand searches where required. All baggage is tied to a particular individual, with a thumbprint stamped on the tags for the bag at the counter, like what many banks are now doing with checks. (Basically, you put your thumb on an ink pad, then roll your print onto a spot on the tag). The print would not be taken digitally, and would be used only to verify a bag's owner should there be a problem with the baggage. All passengers must go through a metal detector. Qualified, well-trained security personnel man every terminal. All entrances to the tarmac are monitored 24/7. All airport personnel must undergo background screenings. Those that fail to meet certain minimum requirements are removed immediately. All cockpits are equiped with thick, steel doors that cannot be opened during flight. A simple pressure sensor located somewhere on the plane, in an unreachable(during flight) location could determine the plane's status. Well-trained air marshals travel with every flight, with one visible and one or more in plain clothes.

        Does this guarantee safety? No, but neither does any
  • Hurray! Once again, let's make this country safer by scaring the piss outta everyone in it! First they brought us convenient color codes to tell us just how much we should be crapping in our pants on any given day but now we can even pick our friends based on their red orange or blue status! Don't worry, the government treats everyone equally.

    And what will the mantra be this time? "Be suspicious of the red-banded cohorts... but don't change your plans." Just like the "Terrorism Alert Level"; be nice

    • Re:3 Cheers for Senseless Panic! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LoztInSpace ( 593234 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:58PM (#7967341)
      I think "scaring the piss outta everyone" is a well used device that shakey governments employ to increase their chances of re-election. It's pretty clear that a determined terrorist can do what they want to do if they put their mind to it, even if everyone is asked if they packed their own bags. This is just FUD, and expensive & inconvinient FUD at that.
    • in quoting Martin Luther King, Jr. "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today." Now we just need to modify it to also the color that they have been assigned.

  • Flying to the US this week... (Score:3, Funny)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:50PM (#7967239) Homepage

    And yet again I will stand there while the person behind the counter asks questions repeatedly and sees 14 things on his screen that he has to check.

    "Have you been involved in an armed robbery in Des Moines?"

    And all of this after the green form that asks you if you are a terrorist or drug smuggler.

    I know this is a moan, but really what the hell information will they ACTUALLY use to colour code people ? I have a common name, there are people with that name who have done bad things, does this mean yet more delays for me?
  • You know who else had flare? The Nazis also had flare. They made the Jews wear it. -Office Space -

  • Total Information Awareness (Score:3, Insightful)

    by So Called Expert ( 670571 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:52PM (#7967250)
    Ok, if I agree to let the gubmint watch my every move, do background checks on me, read my email, and follow my tracks online, can I get it in writing that I'm 100% protected from terrorism?

    What?! You said NO??

    Well, give me liberty or give me death then!

    This would not have stopped 9-11. Making me wait in security lines an extra hour at the airport would not have stopped 9-11. Making old ladies take their shoes off before boarding planes would not have stopped 9-11.

    I know that my personal files are interesting, but I'd rather keep them private, thankyouverymuch.

  • Al Queda retires (Score:5, Funny)

    by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:59PM (#7967350) Homepage Journal
    In other news, Al Queda agents and officials retired en masse today. Evidentally, the U.S. government is now doing a far better job of making Americans fearful and submissive than Al Queda could hope to do with the techniques they have. "We did a lot of damage and killed a lot of people," said one unnamed source. "But Americans responded only with defiance and belligerence. Within a couple of months, they'd gotten on with their lives. The DHS, on the other hand, can frighten the American people practically at will, just by announcing rumors or cancelling a plane flight. In this climate, we can't hope to compete."

    Representatives of the Bush Administration called the mass retirement a possible ruse, and urged people to remember all the rumored attacks that might have been thwarted had Al Queda attempted any attack on U.S. soil since domestic security initiatives were put in place.

    • Re:Al Queda retires (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Malcontent ( 40834 )
      Your post is funny but it also makes a very good point.

      Al Quada by spending a few hundred thousand dollars has caused the US economy hundreds of billions of dollars. As a direct result of smashing three airplanes into three buildings then have wiped out the US surplus.

      More troubling they have added untold amount of friction into the economy. The govt and commercial sector now spend enourmous amounts of money on security and background checks. Business is more risk averse. The real long term effects are no

  • lighten up and fly right (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:00PM (#7967369) Homepage Journal
    Until there's a better way, air passengers should ship their baggage ahead of time, on cargo planes. Once their baggage is received at their destination, they receive an email/voicemail receipt, or ship another on a priority cargo flight. Carryon is limited to stuff like books or magazines - AV entertainment is supplied by the airline, if at all. This plan minimizes not only the risk of weapons, but also the schlepping of crap through airports. Everything is simplified and made cheaper, as well as increasing the passenger capacity of planes.
    • Everything is simplified and made cheaper...

      ...except for the part about multiplying the volume of air freight, and making travel logistics way more complicated.

      ...as well as increasing the passenger capacity of planes.

      Are we going to start packing passengers into the cargo hold now? And where are these extra passengers going to come from, now that your plan has made flying even more of a hassle?

      -Isaac

  • Problem solved: don't fly to America (Score:3, Interesting)

    by torpor ( 458 ) <ibisumNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:02PM (#7967393) Homepage Journal

    And hey, before you go nuts, I lived there and have very good friends there, but with the current government scenario, I no longer wish to participate in the smoke and mirror parade which is the American dream, in any respect, and thus I'm not going to the States again until it changes.

    You'll see. The American flight industry will suffer from this, grandly...

  • Incoming possible match! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:03PM (#7967406) Journal

    TIA v1.2 up and running; using SCO UnixWare.

    Trace log: Started.

    Begin log of target: Dark Lord Seth
    Commence trace: Done, tracing . . .
    Warning!
    * Target is known to disagree with US politics!
    * Target is known to hold non-conformist views!
    * Target is known to skip commercials during TV!
    * Target is known to download from P2P networks!
    ( This feature is copyright (C) RIAA )
    * Target is prone to thinking before acting!
    Estimated level of threat: High
    Trace done.
    Suggested course of action: Interception of target
    Scanning for near by air force base . . Air force base found.
    Andrews AFB contacted, awaiting confirmation fo scramble . . . . . Negative.
    Andrews AFB contacted, awaiting confirmation fo scramble . . . . . Negative.
    Andrews AFB contacted, awaiting confirmation fo scramble . . . . . Negative.
    Andrews AFB contact time-out, checking current status
    Andrews AFB:
    * Base facilities: Operational
    * Aircraft: Operational and ready
    * Infrastructure: Operational
    * Staffing: Barely adequate, less budget cuts suggested
    * Fighter crews: Asleep
    Status check done.
    Awaking crews . . . . . Negative.
    Andrews AFB: checking current locations of key items
    * Lieutenant M. Reeves: Asleep
    * Captain S. Wagely: Asleep
    * Lieutenant J. K. McSoughtly: Passed out on toilet due to cheap beer
    * Major R. Malda: Awake, using silly news site for nerds.
    * Alarm clock for fighter crew: Negative.
    * Deep-scanning for alarm clock: Succes.
    Alarm clock's position found to be matching that of aquarium, underwater castle and "Puffy" the goldfish.
    Lost contact with target: Dark Lord Seth
    Transfering Major R. Malda to spankatorium . . Transfered.
    Stop log of target: Dark Lord Seth

    Trace log: Complete

  • Everyone complained about the airlines getting bail-outs [free-market.net] of government money. Well, now they're really going to need them.

    Hopefully, on the positive side, now that everyone with half a brain has decided to stop flying in protest, I'll be able to get those cheap seats to Cancun! Viva La Dumbass!
  • First off, I strongly doubt this system can work.

    For it to be feasible, the number of false positives has to be very, very low. If more than say a tenth of one percent of travellers come up "red," then it's broken.

    Let's say that at any given time there are 60,000 people flying in the USA. On Sep. 11, 2001, 19 of those people, or .03% were "red." Since then, there have been a handful of other "red" passengers (shoe bomber, maybe one or two others.)

    Here's a test that I bet will never be performed: Feed

  • Making changes to your color (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sebastopol ( 189276 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:07PM (#7967456) Homepage
    So what if I'm accidentally tagged as red/orange? How impossible would it be for me to clear up the mistake? Or can I do 20 years of community service to have my color lowered to yellow.

    Bad, bad, BAD idea.
  • Why don't some of you come up with better systems, instead of complaining what a tragedy this is. I would be willing to bet that most of those complaining about this don't fly now as it is.

    As I read the articles about CAPPS II, or whatever this thing is called, I sense that this project is trying to rectify the excessive false red flags of the current system. Isn't that something that should be welcomed? How many of you are really so important that you need anonymity when you travel, and would be inconv

  • Conspiracy theory of the day! (Score:3)

    by cafebabe ( 151509 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:12PM (#7967507)
    Ahhh...I love the Internet. You never have to worry about being the craziest person in the room.

    We've been discussing the latest airport security measures on one of my technology mailing lists. The posts tend to be either about technical issues that need to be considered when constructing such a system or the program's implications on privacy. I think it's overly intrusive and I don't like the idea of our government aggregating all of that data on us, but one of the people on the list has taken it to the next level. She has developed a theory that the airport security measures are just one piece in a bigger scheme. According to her, the airport security system is actually a precurser to reinstating the draft. It's real purpose isn't to keep out terrorists but to prevent people of draft age from leaving the country once the legislation is passed. As soon as the draft goes into effect, all eligible citizens will be banned from international travel.

    It's the queers. They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay martians....
  • ... that you aren't doing racial profiling, do you really want to create a "color-coded" system?

  • Everyone Knows Already (Score:4, Insightful)

    by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:20PM (#7967576)
    >>Per CNN: Under CAPPS II, TSA will obtain the passenger's full name, home address, home telephone number, birth date and some information about that passenger's itinerary.

    Except for the flight itinerary, this kind of information isn't really private. Everything is already a matter of public record. Once something is public, why worry about privacy?
  • ...so, I take it the reinforced doors aren't that "reinforced"?

    Why do we need more than this? To protect them from the guns that we have placed on the planes on purpose in the form of marshalls? Can a box cutter get through them? If not, then why do they check for them on check in? It seems that if "they" can't get to the controls, and they know it, then why would someone attempt a hijack? Even if the dumbasses did attempt a hijack, the aircraft couldn't be "commandeered" ala not getting to the cockpit,

  • In Soviet Russia... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mal Reynolds ( 676267 ) <Michael_stev80@@@hotmail...com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:24PM (#7967626)
    Government inspected you...
    and determined whether you were able to travel freely within your own country.

    Not funny? No, it isn't.

  • New Jersey uses this (Score:3, Funny)

    by Herkum01 ( 592704 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:52PM (#7967934)

    Nothing new here, the police Already use a color coded system! [about.com]

  • pattern searching is really dangerous (i.e. stupid (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ghostlibrary ( 450718 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @08:28PM (#7968852) Homepage Journal
    During 'code orange', the center I worked out stopped me _every time_ I entered, because I had a non-picture ("temporary") badge. Despite that said badge requires an accompanying photo id and just getting the 'temp' badge took all the paperwork and processing that goes into the photo ones, and is valid for 3 months at a time.

    I became very familiar with the search procedure. I knew exactly when and how the search went. Being searched twice a day for 2 weeks will do that for you.

    An _effective_ search strategy would have been, oh, give the guards new instructions daily like 'today, search all green cars' or 'today, check all plates beginning with '1'".

    Those ('true randoms', i.e. avoiding selection bias by guards and avoiding profiling holes), a no-goodnik wouldn't be able to predict, and yet it also wouldn't hit any one person frequently that they'd be intimately familiar with (and thus able to easily circumvent) the security protocols.

    So yeah, CAPS II is worse than being 'a hassle', it's a hassle that provides _worse_ security than you get without it.

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