Explaining Open Source Software 182
scubacuda writes "Mark Webbink, Red Hat's general counsel, has written an informative article explaining free and open source software. Geared towards attorneys, he explains the various licenses and addresses several myths about OSS." One to bookmark.
Lawyers (Score:2, Funny)
Derivative work (Score:1, Redundant)
The law on derivative works in software is not well established. The U.S. Copyright Act does not specifically address derivative works in software, and there are no U.S. Supreme Court cases immediately on point.
SCO?
Re:Derivative work (Score:2)
No. SCO has not taken any derivative work claims to court, they're just yapping their mouth, trying to spread FUD and get their stocks high.
Their case against IBM is a contract violation, not copyright.
Great overview! (Score:4, Interesting)
Thanks again, Groklaw. It's so wonderful having some lawyers on *our* side!
Difficult for lawyers to grasp.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Difficult for lawyers to grasp.. (Score:1)
In the two years since though they have made noticeable progress.
So yes, it really was difficult for lawyers (and editors and accountants and parliamentarians and others) to grasp, and partly this was becuase of the effort to keep it obscure by the PR of the closed source suppliers.
THe latter continues, and needs to be countered on an individual basis with each journalist one meets or gets to know. Carefully.
One possible explanation (Score:4, Funny)
"Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic."
Re:One possible explanation (Score:2)
Typical lawyer misdirection ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Mild humor value aside
How many icebergs did the Ark bounce off of? And if we are accepting the Ark and Flood we have to also accept that God was piloting the Ark, have to take the entire story or none at all , and piloting was the problem with Titanic not construction. That is we are being fair and objective.
Personally if the pro Open Source lawyer is making statements like the above the document's credibility comes into question. Where there is one piece of spin and misdirection there may be more. I would prefer a objective unbiased legal analysis. The author should hold the jokes for the conference presentations.
That statement was not from the lawyer (Score:4, Informative)
Innovation != popularity (Score:2)
I have to disagree with the paper's answer to the question of Open Source not producing innovation. My reasoning is that the answer cites Apache and SendMail, states that they are popular, therefore they are innovative.
This sounds like a Microsoft definition of innovation.
Was apache the first web server software? No.
Is it innovative to make a cheaper version of something that is already availabl
Re:Typical lawyer misdirection ... (Score:5, Funny)
- How many icebergs did the Ark bounce off of?
The Ark survived at least as many iceberg strikes as the Titanic.Re:Typical lawyer misdirection ... (Score:2)
Eh? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Eh? (Score:1)
Here's the hard part in a short: if you give your product away for free, where's the profit?
Re:Eh? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Water is a $5 billion industry.
Seems simple enough.
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
You don't live in Colorado and its maze of twisty little water rights regulations, do you? :)
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Y'all ever hear about what happens when you melt snow? Just stay away from the yellow stuff...
--K.
P.S. Just to prove I was kidding...I was pulling for Denver today. Congrats Colts fans.
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Earth. Been coming out of the sky for oh, 3.2 billion years or so.
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Re:Eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Perfect analogy. Rainwater is about as pure as water gets. Water is an industry because it's more convenient to pay for water than it is to set up basins on the patio.
Purified water cannot be "copied" ad infinitum.
As a matter of fact, there is so much water available that "copying" it is a non-issue. In fact, it's a red herring.
Anyone who claims that there is money to made selling Open Source software is daft.
Red Hat's market
Re:Water analogy (Score:2)
To stretch the analogy a little further, if you are using only Microsoft software, then it's like drinking no water - only Coke.
So, does that make the Mac RC Cola?
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Re:Eh? (Score:1)
you know, the big money makers already...
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
Re:Eh? (Score:2, Informative)
Not everything has to be free as in speech and beer, otherwise how would Red Hat/Suse/whoever be able to charge money for their Linux distributions (among all the completely free distro's out there) and not immediately fold?
Customer support is a part of that, but so is offering the package in an easily installable, usable and maintainable set. Look at some of the really Newbie-Friendly distros (xandros and Lindows), both offer easy-to-use versions of Debian (avai
Re:Eh? (Score:3, Informative)
This is really a problem of copyright law in general and companies that collaborate (source only open to the parties involved) can get into trouble deciding who owns the resultant work, but most closed-source licenses are pretty simple: I can distribute object form only of the Metaware libraries, I can do anything with the input or output of their compiler (my code) and my work which uses their libr
Re:Eh? (Score:2, Interesting)
FSF claims, in their FAQ and the preamble to the LGPL, that any linking to a GPL library makes the whole program derived. However, they do not give reference to any statute or judicial interpretation that supports their statement. IMHO, linking does not necessarily make a derived work.
I decided to distribute my library (tkgeomap.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net]) under the GPL with some trepidation. It is a library, and I worried that FSF's statements about linking would scare away proprietary developers, who have hel
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
That's not a very useful definition to me. While you might use it only for your program, it doesn't seem generally applicable. What application can run without an OS under it? What OS can run without driver to help it talk to hardware? What GUI app can run without widget/drawing libraries?
Re:Eh? (Score:2)
How about telling this to RedHat? They're charging for open source software (AKA RHEL). Don't give me "There's always Fedora". That doesn't change the fact that they're charging for other people's work. And don't give me the "They're charging for support" line either. If they're charging for support then they can give away RHEL and sell service contracts. RedHat just did an end run around the GPL. If I were an OSS developer I would be mad as hell that someone is making money off of my software with compens
More ways to prevent people from doing their job (Score:4, Interesting)
At least for me, this would severly hamper my ability to do work. For example, I sometimes use perl to parse through MAP files. So, if I wanted to download a FREE version of perl and run it, I have to go to some lawyer to explain why I want to use it? I can think of a hundred other reasons this would be a bloody pain, and result in a lot of bureaucratic hassle for engineers.
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:3, Interesting)
On The Other Hand (Score:5, Insightful)
And remember, once the GPL, MPL, Artistic License, etc, have been cleared through legal, anything under those licenses is no longer barred from downloading.
Re:On The Other Hand (Score:1)
Yep, viruses/worms think they are already cleared due to their premissive distribution license and saves you the bother of downloading/distributing it yourself.
Re:On The Other Hand (Score:2)
By the SYSADMIN of course, NOT the users. Users should never be installing software in a work environment.
Re:On The Other Hand (Score:3, Informative)
Most companies don't have developers for starters. And although developers need to install software, they DON'T need to install it on the corporate network. You give you them a few computers, a switch, a hub, and 2pc's worth of spare parts, and an annual budget of about $100 for it. If they break it and can't fix it, it's their own problem.
After
Re:On The Other Hand (Score:2)
I'd better not ask for a copy of Resourcer, or a non-free bug tracking tool, or Visual Studio.
I'm a software developer at a big company with a bunch of idiotic sys admins.
Re:On The Other Hand (Score:2)
I don't think they have to made for your whims and preferences. "I prefer tool x, even though the shop and other programmers use tool y", that's the kind of thing that doesn't need to fly.
As for the $100, that's for the test network, not your development software. Anything special you need there shouldn't come out of my budget at all, it should come out of the budget for your project, st
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:5, Insightful)
So for example, don't let your employees use GPL software until you understand what the GPL is. Fair enough. After you approve the GPL license terms, people are free to use GPL software.
Did you interpret this to mean that you would need approval for each piece of open source software? Because yes, that would be a huge pain! I don't think that is what the guideline meant. Getting an open source license approved once isn't a big deal.
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the entirety of justficiation for the existence of most "corporate" "departments." It's also a very efficient way to ensure universal mediocrity.
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:4, Insightful)
You missed the point ... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:You missed the point ... (Score:3, Interesting)
There are certainly issues that do require discussion with a lawyer and conference with a legal department or outside counsel. If you p
Re:You missed the point ... (Score:2)
Nope. That would already be on the list of approved products whose licences have been reviewed by legal. Also part of a standard set of development tools installed onto a developers system by IT. The IT department tracks the site/corporate license and increase the license as needed.
Or whether emacs needs to be purchased before it's used?
Nope. Part of a pre-approved Linux a
Re:You missed the point ... (Score:2)
Pre-sale contracts or licenses, the distinction is very blurry, are different. You know t
Re:You missed the point ... (Score:2)
How do you know what they say until they are read. Some zealot could have slipped something weird into a license, "not to be used by military contractors" for example. I've seen idiots suggest such nonsense on several different occasions around here. Someone at the company has to read it, why n
Re:You missed the point ... (Score:2)
> You don't want developers working for you who don't understand basic principles of copyright law
Well, it's an arguable point, but I have enough trouble hiring good people to bother with quizzing them about copyright law, even in this market. As long as the leads know where everything is coming from, it's usually not a huge problem, and I certainly understand the "Programmer's Privilege" mentality wrt paying for software. Furthermore, my guess is that most of the slashdotters debating finer points of
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:2)
Which is precisely why it would never happen in the standard five-foot-wide-ass bureaucracy. Anyone who must have "knowledge" of something must also have "approval" authority, and therefore nothing will ever be accomplished.
When the ratio of the mass of an organization to its IQ reaches a certain value, the organization stops moving. Period. It's as certain as th
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:1)
It's the same thing where I work. Currently, all engineers are allowed to install whatever programs they want without consulting with anyone, but the management is considering a change to this. Personally, I think it should be as it is; we should be able to assume that professional software engineers know how the licensing works. However, the greatest concern is not that people might listen to pirated mp3s, but that someone by mistake would use GPL'd stuff in the release code. As the company makes proprieta
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:2)
Lincoln urban legend (Score:2)
Sorry to burst your bubble... but (contrary to popular belief) Lincoln's primary motive in issuing the Emancipation Proclamation was not a moral judgement on the institution of slavery. Lincoln's primary motivation was always the preservation of the Union - nothing more, nothing less. Issuing the Emancipation Proclimation was nothing more or less than a strategic decision designed to help end the war.
In his own words:
You exaggerate the hassle ... (Score:2)
You exaggerate the hampering. Getting a set of development tools approved is a one time event and should already be in place. I've gotten legal approval for an open source library in a day. I think our lawyer could handle ActiveState Perl for Windows even f
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:2)
At this point you have perl, so the sysadmin leaves it on your machine (Because of course, you shouldn't be uninstalling software either as a user, this should be a moot point since the sysadmin should have made doing this impossible for you).
Re:More ways to prevent people from doing their jo (Score:2)
It's not like you'll really need more than one or two tools that aren't already provided and it's not like those will ever have to be installed again.
If this actually results in a significant amount of time on an ongoing basis then obviously it's more productive for you to use the tools you have than to save 2 seconds by using
The SCO lawyer said... (Score:1)
Excellent article, but long... (Score:4, Interesting)
I suggest excerpting the article, to start with the "Myths of Open Source Section", as that looks short enough for most CXOs to handle, and then go with the rest if the CXO expresses further interest.
Re:Excellent article, but long... (Score:2)
In any case the article has a major mistake:
Re:Excellent article, but long... (Score:2)
There are some subjects that cannot be properly explained in an elevator pitch. People would be incredulous if they realized the gargantuan amounts of money that are spent on the basis of a 30 second presentation.
Want to know why something sucks? It was probably designed with an elevator pitch. Oh, and middle management was probably involved too.
And how this relates to our favorite /. topic... (Score:1)
But is this really "News for Nerds"? Most of us know about the GPL and BSD Liscenses at least. More like "News for Suits".
Re:And how this relates to our favorite /. topic.. (Score:1, Troll)
We need translation to and from legalese. (Score:5, Interesting)
This has been long-needed. We demand that legalese be put into "plain English," should we not expect attorneys to require the same?
We need Open Source and related licenses explained for dummies (pehaps a book, anyone? Open Source For Dummies), for the those of us knee-deep in all of this who have a grasp of what is going on, and for the legal entities who will ultimately decide the case.
This case will never be won so long as people believe that SCO can claim
Yes, we need more articles like this one.
An interesting battle being waged (Score:1)
I'm noticing a trend of regurgitated BS coming out of the SCO camp, but intelligent, well-thought arguments coming from the otherside of this battle.
Makes me wonder why one little company would try to take on the world of opensource? The mindshare that SCO is fighting has to be exponentially larger than anything SCO has,
No link to the Groklaw discussion? (Score:1, Redundant)
After all, they covered this last thursday...
Re:No link to the Groklaw discussion? (Score:1, Redundant)
That should teach me to not click on all the links.
Does
(Then again, if it did, there probably wouldn't be much posted around here...
Not News (Score:2, Informative)
*sigh*
Re:Not News (Score:3, Insightful)
Soko
Simple (Score:1, Funny)
Say what you will about Communism itself, but what it failed to do for Soviet Russia, it has succeeded in doing for the Open Source movement.
Free is good.
Re:Simple (Score:2)
The same way that "..of the people, by the people, for the people" == communisim?
Non-technical explanation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Something like this:
- Open source and free software is like disk space. You used to pay $1000 for 1GB, today you get 1Gb for $1.
- This is possible because the Internet has made communications so cheap that the traditional huge costs of making software - design, management and infrastructure - have been largely eliminated.
- "Closed software" businesses like Microsoft would very much like you to continue paying 1970's prices for software.
- But the fact is that your competitors are benefiting from high-quality free packages like OpenOffice, Apache, PHP, Linux, and MySQL.
- You should really be switching your IT budgets from paying for software licenses to paying for support and custom development: this is the best way to keep an edge in the market.
Every dollar spent on buying overblown commercial software that has a free equivalent is a dollar wasted. Are you sure you want to waste your money?
Re:Non-technical explanation? (Score:2)
Re:Non-technical explanation? (Score:3, Informative)
From what I remember, MySQL isn't GPL'd and requires a commercial license.
You can get it with a GPL license, or pay for another one.
Bonus points (Score:2)
beauty of the GPL (Score:3, Interesting)
But which is riskier, licensing practices that are constantly being challenged or those that, in their simplicity and effectiveness, have avoided challenge.
This is why the GPL, BSD, etc licenses are so wonderful. They are aligned with the user's needs. It's really tough to violate them as an end-user. You just download the software, use it, and you never even have to *accept* the license at all!
Just like anything else in life.. you buy a car, the car company doesn't really care what you do with it. Now, if you take it apart, learn how it works, and start selling copies for half price, they might want to chat with you.. but only a very small percentage of car drivers would do that. Even the ones that do work on their cars do it for their own personal enjoyment. Same with the GPL.. hack as much as you want, just keep your eye on the terms when you start re-distributing.
Once legal departments start to figure this out, free software will make bigger and bigger inroads. "Wait, you mean with FreeBSD we never have to worry about being targeted by the BSA? Whoa.. *mind blown*".
Re:beauty of the GPL (Score:2)
If they aren't and are a third party then they WANT you targetted by the BSA because that's how they get paid.
Please: NO!!! (Score:1)
Re:Please: NO!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
I wish. Unfortunately the lawyer resorts to the same GPL FUD I see all the time:
BZZZT, wrong Lawyer-man. Pointing out that "Protective LicensesSo if "Protective" licenses offer no additional protection for my code than "Non-Protective" licenses, the question is what is the difference and why is Lawyer-man lying about it?
I know the answer, do you?
Re:Please: NO!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Sorry, it's your misinterpretation. (Score:3, Interesting)
He's talking about derivative works. And derivative works of BSD code can be neither open nor free. This is the core difference between the BSD and GPL "class" of licences, and I find the classification good and the statement accurate.
Like it or not, this is very very important to corporations. You might not care that someone else is profiting
Re:Sorry, it's your misinterpretation. (Score:2)
He's talking about derivative works.
I know. I just find the statement "the code will always remain open/free" vague and misleading. I'll explain further with help from the rest of your reply.
Alternately, they'd like to get compensated in another way - in form of the modifications others have made. The GPL licence is giving them a reason
Re:Please: NO!!! (Score:2)
This statement is easily amended to be 100% accurate.
"Open source licenses m
Re:Please: NO!!! (Score:2)
"Open source licenses may be broadly categorized into the following types: (1) those that apply no restrictions on the distribution of derivative works (we will call these Non-Protective Licenses because they do not protect the code from being used in non-Open Source applications); and (2) those that do apply such restrictions (we will call these Protective Licenses because they do protect the code from being used in non-Open Source applications)."
C
Re:Please: NO!!! (Score:2)
Whether you term it restrict or protect is really a glass half full or glass half empty.
Basically it's a matter of whether or not your a programmer. If your not a programmer (or a company who produces programs or has the ability to hire programmers) it makes no difference whatsoever. If you are a programmer (or company who produces program or has the ability to hire programmers) then
On OSS and FSF... (Score:2)
The difference principally arises from so-called license compatibility, but in large measure the differences are principally philosophical and not substantial.
Webbink's article is vastly overrated. (Score:2)
Webbink's article gives the open source movement a lot of undeserved credit (GNU Emacs an "open source" program even though it was written initially by RMS and Guy Steele in the pursuit of software freedom years before the name "open source" was ever coined?) and the logic behind some of Webbink's points is in gross conflict with the FSF's stated logic (outside of a license manager program or encryption, copyright licenses are not what allow you to use a program [gnu.org]; of the powers copyright regulates that have
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:1)
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:1)
So you don't believe in years of embedded systems, systems programming, pretty much all routing protocols, and all operating systems other than windows (I have no idea what MS Windows is written in).
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:3, Funny)
Windows is written in the lowest pits of hell!
; )
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:2)
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:2)
Re:My Experience with the Linux (Score:2)
Yep-Here [securityfocus.com] and here [google.com] and here [fark.com] and here [zone-h.com]
Ahh, go look for yourself:
Here [dogpile.com]
Re:Not only that (Score:2)
Re:This is sad ... (Score:2, Insightful)
I think you mean hysterical.
Calm down. The GPL is a GNU project licence, i.e. it was created as part of the GNU project. So the Linux kernel uses a GNU licence. That is all...
Re:This is sad ... (Score:2)
The proper term for a generic distribution with the linux kernel at it's core is *gasp* Linux. Whether that distribution happens to include GNU application software or not (there is no reason it does, there are a number of utils that replace them, including the BSD versions) is really rather irrelevant. The operating system (ie the kernel in the case of a macro kernel system) is linux. So a distribution of applications along w
Re:This is sad ... (Score:3, Informative)
What's so "anti-freesoftware" about Red Hat? Their distribution is entirely GPL, including their installer, hardware detection, and every other part of it excepting their trademark logo. Progeny, definitely a GNU/Linux company, has borrowed Red Hat's installer, Anaconda, as an installer for Debian. This would not be possible if it wasn't for a real commitme
Re:Being bound to the GPL license (Score:2)
Tough shit, it doesn't work that way, any who distributes under the gpl isn't giving you something for nothing unless your an end user. They are giving you something for something. I don't want money, I want source code. Deal with it.
Re:It didn't answer any important questions (Score:3, Informative)
There is nothing which stops you from no longer providing licenses under the GPL (in which your case your development from that point for wouldn't be open to all), nor is there anything preventing someone else from taking what you had released up to that point and forking it, providing updates to it as well since the