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Tennessee's Super-DMCA Rises From The Grave

Posted by timothy on Wed Oct 29, 2003 04:28 AM
from the kudzu-of-cluelessness dept.
Tsar writes "Members of the Tennessee Digital Freedom Network turned out in force as Tennessee's Super-DMCA Bill, its hour come round at last, slouched back to Nashville's Legislative Plaza. The industry heavyweights made their pitches, but were thwarted by thoughtful, intelligent comments and questions from the newly-formed Joint Committee on Communications Security. My favorite quote of the day: 'I stand here before you as representing the MPAA, one of the leading advocates of First Amendment rights...' I think I blacked out for a minute after that."
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  • When will it end? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bl1st3r (464353) <eric.ryan.harrison@k03.SAFE> on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:30AM (#7336272)
    (http://www.k03.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 03 2004, @06:36AM)
    I'm an American. I love my country and I love the freedoms we have. But when will the copyright crap end? Its getting to the point where enough is enough, and the next president should be considering what to do about the situation.

    On one hand, you have 60 million American felons, on the other hand, you wrestle control away from fat, rich corporations. It seems like a no-brainer.
    • what freedom do u guys actually have? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:49AM
      • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by bl1st3r (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:52AM
        • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by fruity1983 (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:59AM
          • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:33AM (#7336397)
            Freedom. It really does feel more free. I now have lived in the Netherlands long enough that I have grown used to the society and love it. But what became clear is that the Netherlands is, in many ways, a very controlled society (self control, government control, etc.). In that sense I feel more free in America. This goes hand in hand with the common belief that anything is possible (i.e. "I want to be an Astronaut!", response: "Great! go for it!"). You can argue that this is overly optimistic, but in the end this attitude often leads to life satisfaction. I honestly believe that the quality of life is good when living in America; yes, better than many places. Switzerland also seems quite nice, if you're Swiss.

            Now America's actions on the international scene are simply awful, no question.

            If you believe your choice of media (often) protraying the difficulties of living in America (e.g. everyone's mother was a crack whore, crime is terrible), then you're simply missing part of the picture.

            The same bias is applied to the Netherlands: many people seem to think that the Netherlands is very liberal, supporting prostitution, soft drugs, etc. when, in fact, the society is quite conservative. The laws governing the "liberal" things are really just (good) ways of dealing with problems. Leagalizing hash and a war-on-drugs are simply different ways of dealing with an unavoidable market.
            [ Parent ]
            • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:59AM
            • by dipipanone (570849) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @07:04AM (#7336552)
              If you believe your choice of media (often) protraying the difficulties of living in America (e.g. everyone's mother was a crack whore, crime is terrible), then you're simply missing part of the picture.

              I'm pretty familiar with both the USA and the Netherlands, and have spent some time in both countries every year for the last ten years or so.

              The thing about the USA is that it appears more free if you're an orthodox sort of person that fits in with everyone else around you and doesn't actually want to make any choices that the rest of your culture think are somehow immoral or improper.

              What the USA doesn't do very well, in my opinion, is brook difference or dissent -- and to me, a culture that is able to tolerate or embrace those those things is one that meets my idea of a free.

              There's no equivalent of Rush Limbaugh or Pat Buchanan in the Netherlands, spewing hate across the airwaves. And if you want to smoke pot or have some kind of unorthodox sex, the state doesn't feel it has any role in policing those areas of private morality.

              So while I think your main point is essentially correct -- the Netherlands is a conservative country, and the culture and many of its institutions are also somewhat conservative, but its profound and deep-rooted tolerance for me makes it a much freer environment than the USA could ever be.

              That said, what you do have in the USA is a much greater degree of economic freedom -- be that the freedom to make a million, or the freedom to sleep under a bridge because minimum wage jobs don't pay enough to both feed and accomodate you.
              [ Parent ]
            • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by symbolic (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @01:16PM
            • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by HiThere (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @07:03PM
          • by jlanthripp (244362) <jeff.lanthrippNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:41AM (#7336498)
            (Last Journal: Wednesday January 11 2006, @09:23PM)
            Just a sampling from the top of my head, though not everything on this list appeals to everybody, and there are some things in this list that are in peril under the current administration:

            • Freedom of the press - you can print pretty much anything you want, and nobody can toss you in jail for it. The only exceptions I can think of are for libel, slander, and revealing classified information (because if you have classified information you either got it illegally or you signed a statement saying that you promised to not reveal it, understood the National Security Act, and understood that violating that act lands you in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison).
            • Freedom of speech - see above, only it applies to verbal communication as opposed to written.
            • Freedom of association (now severely curtailed by the Patriot Act, which will hopefully be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court).
            • The right to not be subject to search and seizure without a warrant, issued by a judge, supported by an affidavit sworn under oath under penalty of perjury (also heavily eroded by the Patriot Act and various laws passed under the pretense of cracking down on drug dealers, which will also hopefully be declared unconstitutional).
            • One of the lowest overall tax burdens (for all income levels) in the industrialized world.
            • Nubile Southern Women (Southern USA Women, that is).
            • Wal Mart. You too can buy a riding lawnmower, a barbecue grill, an oil filter for your car, some clothes, and next week's groceries at 3am on Saturday.
            • Almost limitless opportunities for socio-economic advancement. My father's family got indoor plumbing for the first time in 1965 when he was 15 - and though they qualified, neither my grandparents nor my parents nor I have ever applied for or received one cent in government aid. He made over $80,000 in 1990, putting him in the wealthiest 5% of the nation. And he never had a management position with a title any more glamorous than "Mechanical Maintenance Foreman". To me, that illustrates the fact that with hard work, self-discipline, and determination, anyone in America can overcome a "lower-class" background. My house (a modest cottage) and my truck are paid for, and I get by just fine on a part-time job - to me, time to spend with my family is more important than money, and though I can afford everything I need, I am by no means rich. I am, however, housed, clothed, fed, and happy - and thus I'm better off than most people in the world, for which I'm thankful.
            • Backyard cookouts, tailgate parties, barbecued chicken with Texas toast. "Plugged" watermelon (cut hole in melon, pour rum into melon, eat).
            • Deserts, beaches, mountains, forests, grassy plains, swamps, bayous, rivers and lakes - all within a day or two driving time, and all the hotels accept Visa and Mastercard.
            • American Indians (aka Native Americans), Anglo-Americans, African Americans, Irish Americans, Scots-Irish Americans, Indian-Americans, Spanish-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Asian-Americans, Polynesian-Americans, Arab-Americans, Palistinian-Americans, French-Canadian-Americans, mixtures of all the above and then some.
            • Near-total confidence of invulnerability from hostile invasion, even if military spending were cut by 2/3 (which isn't a bad idea).
            • Even the American "poor" are wealthy by the standards of many other nations - death by starvation is almost unheard of, for example.
            • The right to legal counsel if accused of a crime, the right to trial by jury, and the right to appeal an unjust criminal conviction. (Yes, I know about the people at Camp X-Ray - they are recent developments, exceptions to the rule, and with any luck a judge somewhere will order that they be given their day in court or set free)
            • Freedom to practice any religion, or no religion - so long as said practice doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.
            • Travis Tritt, Rob Zombie, System of a Down, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, the New York Symphony O
            [ Parent ]
            • by jlanthripp (244362) <jeff.lanthrippNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday October 29 2003, @10:45AM (#7338077)
              (Last Journal: Wednesday January 11 2006, @09:23PM)
              I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where I claimed that the US has a monopoly on freedom of speech, press, and religion.

              Small mistake. USA has approx 12% of its population living below the poverty line. That is absolutely unheard of in western europe for example.

              Ah, I see - the world consists of Western Europe and North America, and the rest of the world doesn't count. My bad.

              But I didn't mention poverty level, did I? I mentioned death by starvation. According to the World Health Organization [who.int], Protein-Energy Malnutrition (PEM), the most lethal form of malnutrition, affects 1 out of every 4 children worldwide. "...more than 70% of PEM children live in Asia, 26% in Africa and 4% in Latin America and the Caribbean." The United States isn't mentioned. Neither is Europe. If I were a child, I'd rather live in the US or Europe than, say, Asia or Africa - nevermind the climate, I'd like to eat on a regular basis!

              Now let's take a look at that 12% figure. If you'll reread my previous post, you'll notice that I said that even the poor of America might be considered wealthy by the standards of many other nations. According to the US Census Bureau, 12.6% of all Americans over the age of 15 earn less than or equal to the dollar amount which it says defines the "poverty level" income of an individual. This excludes government aid payments, and every person is counted - including non-working teens aged 15-18 who live with their parents (even if those parents are wealthy), people who need not work because their spouses make money by the bushel, retired people who live on pensions, savings, and Social Security retirement benefits, permanently and temporarily disabled people who live on Social Security disability benefits and private disability insurance, and those whose wages are paid "under the table" and do not report or pay taxes on their income.

              "Poverty level" is defined by the US Census Bureau strictly by individual income per year, and doesn't take into account the income of other family members, government aid income, or "allowances" such as the $5,000/month Little Rich Johnny gets from his parents every month while he attends college out of town.

              Note that I didn't say that American poor were wealthy by the standards of the United Kingdom, or France, or Sweden - I said "many nations". Places like Ethiopia, Somalia, Laos, Cambodia, Bhutan, Malawi, Haiti, and so forth. Places where you're likely to see Sally Struthers pitching another Save The Children fund-raising campaign.

              Now, let's take a look at someone who is part of that 12.6% who's under the poverty level - me. My income put me below the "poverty level" last year, as well as 2001, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1994, and every year from 1988-1993. I will probably just barely clear the poverty level this year, but only if the Dow Jones doesn't close out for the year any lower than its level as of last Friday (capital losses due to drops in stock prices deduct from your Adjusted Gross Income dollar-per-dollar). I own a modest but nice 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom house with a mixture of new hardwood floors and new carpet, on a 1/2-acre level lot, in a good neighborhood. I own it outright - no mortgage. I own a 1996 Ford full-sized pickup truck outright, no payments. I have 4 computers, a cellular phone, thousands of dollars worth of books, cable television with 300 or so channels, high-bandwidth internet access, a refrigerator full of food, a Ridgeway grandfather clock/curio cabinet made from cherry wood, and about $9500 in savings. But according to the US Census Bureau, I've been hovering right around the poverty level since I became old enough to be included in the statistics, with the exception of 2 years when I lucked out and made a "middle-class" income. According to the rhetoric spewed forth by the liberals, I've been screwed over by the rich, and should be getting big fat checks every month, financed by the "wealthiest 10%" - which, BTW, means those making about $65,000

              [ Parent ]
            • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by jlanthripp (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @11:36AM
            • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by jlanthripp (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @11:50AM
            • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:36AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by YanceyAI (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:37AM
        • by WIAKywbfatw (307557) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:01AM (#7337038)
          (Last Journal: Tuesday September 06 2005, @12:39PM)
          What do you mean by "too much classism in England"?

          If by that you mean we have a royal family (which we share with Canada and a whole lot of other countries too, by the way), then you're right.

          But I hardly see how that's relevant. In the UK, our head of state is the Queen, who in many ways has fewer rights than the average citizen (for one thing, she can't vote), and has only a minor consitutional role - she has no say in how the country is governed, in deciding the law, etc.

          In fact, for all practical purposes, the Queen is just a glorified ambassador, which is all I want from my head of state. The real power lies with the Prime Minister and the Cabinet, all elected officials.

          There's arguably more of a class system in America than in Britain. In the US, if you're poor and need expensive medical treatment then you're probably shit out of luck. But in Britain, or almost anywhere else in Europe, you'll get it (perhaps not straight away, but you will get it).

          Also, further education is more attainable in Britain than it is in the US. It might not be as free as it once was, but British students don't need six figure bank balances to get there degrees. If you're from a poor background but smart, where would you rather be? A country that wants to see your green before it lets you realise your potential or one that is happy to help you attain it?

          Want to attain office? Well, better hope that daddy and his friends have deep pockets. The fathers of our last three Prime Ministers were a shopkeeper, a circus performer and a university lecturer. A humble start in life doesn't stop you from running the country over here but can you say the same in the US? Heck, if you don't have millions of dollars to your name you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of even running for Congress, let alone be elected!

          There are other examples but I'll only bore you further. Suffice to say class (or, to give it it's proper name, wealth) is more of a barrier in the US as it is in UK or elsewhere.
          [ Parent ]
      • Re:what freedom do u guys actually have? by seraph93 (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @02:37PM
    • Re:When will it end? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:56AM (#7336336)
      Our Founding Fathers viewed exclusive ownership of "intellectual property" not as a right, but as a sharply time-limited privilege temporarily granted by the Government. Copyrights and patents were not intended to last more than a couple of decades of years.

      We are now living in a society which is growing increasingly at odds with the original intent of those who created this nation. We are subjugated by the twin pathological powers of corporate special interest cartels and judicial tyranny.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:When will it end? by spectecjr (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:17AM
        • Re:When will it end? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by redhog (15207) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:52AM (#7336422)
          (http://redhog.org/)
          I think that the point is, that it does not matte. At all. If the founding father's pointt was that after a _limited_ time, eveyone should be allowed to copy a work, then it does not matter they did not know how easy or hard it would be in hunded yeas to copy that work _after_ the limited time had elapsed.

          What has changed is _not_ only technology, but goal and policy. Our culture is by large not our anymore. Our knowledge is neither.

          We the people, need to take back what is our.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:When will it end? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by whereiswaldo (459052) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:21AM (#7337153)
            (Last Journal: Thursday October 19 2006, @09:26PM)

            It would be interesting to trace back to see who got the ball rolling to change copyright laws and so on. I'd bet good money it was the mega companies of the US, and not the citizens. Why would citizens be pushing to get less control over their property? Goes to show who really runs the country. All they (companies, govt) need us for is to fill their pockets with money. Oh, and human interest stories to make them smell rosy after all is said and done.
            [ Parent ]
        • Red herring (Score:5, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:52AM (#7336516)
          Jefferson certainly knew about the writings of the Denis Diderot and the Marquis de Condorcet. Diderot was commissioned in 1763 by the Paris Book Guild to argue for a copyright equivalent to physical property; he went so far as to claim that works of authorship were in fact a truer form of property, as they were entirely the product of their creator, while physical property could be formed only from natural resources and the work of other men. Condorcet held that ideas originated in nature and, unlike real property, could be cultivated by all without diminishment; on the contrary, he wrote, the dissemination of ideas benefitted the common good. Diderot portrayed the artist as a creator; Condorcet saw a discoverer. Diderot perceived ideas to exist for the benefit of one man, Condorcet wished them to enrich every man.

          Had the framers intended a Diderotian system, they would have implemented one. Instead, the American institution of copyright was informed by Condorcet and Locke. But if you want to speculate about Jefferson's mind, why not ask the man himself?

          He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from anybody.... -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Isaac McPherson, 1813
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:Red herring by cpt kangarooski (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @02:01PM
            • Re:Red herring by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Friday October 31 2003, @07:16PM
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          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:When will it end? by ceeam (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @07:47AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:When will it end? by Colonel Cholling (Score:3) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:34AM
        • Re:When will it end? by Awptimus Prime (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:42AM
        • Founding Fathers (Score:5, Insightful)

          by solprovider (628033) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @10:24AM (#7337845)
          (http://solprovider.com/)
          It is true that the "Founding Fathers" were divided about just about every issue. The whole State power versus Federal power took 2 tries because the States won the first time, but the Articles of Confederation proved impractical.

          But when referring to the Constitution, we assume the "Founding Fathers" were the ones whose ideals were codified. Many of the ones about copyrights orginated with Thomas Jefferson, just like the banking system came from Alexander Hamilton. Jefferson and the rest of the Founding Fathers were able to find compromises between those who believed free spread of information was important, and those who believed that business would suffer without the monopolies granted by copyright. These compromises are what made our system flexible enough to survive. In this instance, the compromise was that there would be monopolies, they would be granted to the creators (rather than the publishers), and they would exist for a LIMITED time.

          Today, we are violating the spirit of this. Big business has wrested control of many of the copyrights from the creators for music, and made a good effort to do the same for books back in the 1970s. And the time limit is almost useless. Rather than 17 years with one possible renewal, it is now life + 50 years and growing. We have also contracted with Europe to defend this practice, so it is unlikely that the U.S. can fix it internally.

          Many stories published on the early internet came with copyright notices that allowed the works to become public domain after 120 days. There is little reason for computer books to keep their copyrights beyond a decade, as the technology could be obsolete in 4 years. Creators can limit their own copyrights, and many do. Big business will never relinquish anything unless forced by law. It will probably take another revolution for the public to win back control of ideas.

          Technology has changed the need for copyrights. Historically, they were granted to a specific publisher to prevent other publishers from stealing popular works. Then they were granted to the creators, to encourage them to create more. Then the publishers bought them from the creators. But every law assumes that the COPYING takes effort, and that is no longer true. I did not need to publish this as a pamphlet and try to sell them on street corners for a penny each. I wrote it; I published it; you are reading it, and any costs in the process are subsumed in the overhead of having a computer attached to the internet.

          ---
          I would like to use a well-thought license that allows works to enter public domain for most purposes within 20 years, but still allows me to benefit if Disney decides to turn my work into a movie. Of course, this clause in itself would prevent Disney from making a movie from my books, because they only publish material if they can retain all the profits. They wouldn't publish something like Star Wars because Lucas insisted on keeping the associated toy franchise. Why should they make my book into a movie when there are still tons of material already in the public domain from before their efforts to extend copyright into eternity?
          [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:When will it end? by linzeal (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:48AM
    • Re:When will it end? by Lumpy (Score:3) Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:40AM
    • Re:When will it end? by alexo (Score:2) Friday October 31 2003, @10:51AM
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  • Don't you dare comment! (Score:5, Informative)

    If you're taking the time to write a comment on this story, DON'T. Instead, take that same amount of time to write a one page, reasoned, intelligent letter to your Senators (you have two, you know that?) telling them that you disapprove of this bill, telling them WHY (privacy violation, overextension of copyright, and so forth are good places to start), and encouraging them to work against it. Not tomorrow morning, RIGHT NOW. Get away from that Submit button and go write a letter to someone who could actually do something. Then send it snail mail to their LOCAL office (not DC office), or fax it. (Not email. Many offices don't pay attention to email, although some do.)

    I don't want to see any replies to this post. Get away from Slashdot and do something other than whine, or you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

    Are you still here? Stop reading and start acting!
    • Some more info, while I'm at it by Michael's a Jerk! (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:43AM
      • Re:Some more info, while I'm at it (Score:4, Informative)

        by Cpt_Kirks (37296) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:28AM (#7337200)
        I live outside Memphis. Mark Norris is my State Senator. When this first came up, I sent him an email calmly explaining why I thought this was a bad bill. He replied that he was already doing research and looking at info from the EFF. They backed the lobbyist into a corner, asking questions he *DID NOT* want to answer. It went away, but a staffer told me it would come back later.

        I will have to check with him again when I get home, but it looks like (for now) they are doing a good job in grilling the lobbyists again.

        Norris seems like a good guy. He had pretty good grasp of the issues and understood why the bill was bad as written.

        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by t4b00 (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:46AM
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by geeveees (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:49AM
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by arvindn (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:17AM
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by zoefff (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:49AM
    • by putaro (235078) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:13AM (#7336450)
      (Last Journal: Monday June 30 2003, @09:41PM)
      It's not a federal bill. Unless you live in Tennessee those senators are not real interested in your input.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by Darth_Foo (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @07:54AM
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by rf600r (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:12AM
      • Re:Don't you dare comment! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ajs318 (655362) <{sd_resp2} {at} {earthshod.co.uk}> on Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:34AM (#7337270)
        This isn't about stealing, troll. It's about the right to use goods you bought, paid for and own, in such a manner as you think fit.

        I really thought I had stumbled onto a piece of horror sci-fi when I saw the full extent what the DMCA was about to criminalise. If I own a DVD, IMHO I have paid for the right to watch the content on that DVD. All means to the same end are equally valid - nobody {except the irreversible laws of Nature; and she's reckoned to be a deity precisely because it doesn't do mortals any good arguing with her} can dictate to me how I may watch that DVD. Only in a fascist police state would it be considered "theft" to use software received as a gift with the blessing of the author, to watch a paid-for DVD, on equipment you already own. The only thing you haven't done is paid money to some DVD player manufacturer, but as you haven't made any use of their goods or services, you don't owe them anything. That would be like a consortium of bra manufacturers calling Charlie Dimmock [google.co.uk] a thief!

        And, of course, it's totally unenforceable - unless you actually spend more money on enforcing a stupid law than you would have lost through it getting broken in the first place. But you do get to blame it on "criminals", even although it was only your law that made them criminals in the first place.

        And then, of course, you have to remember that it could be the thin end of the wedge. How long till the Bakery Products Association of America start busting bread machine users?
        [ Parent ]
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by Bendebecker (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:29AM
    • Re:Don't you dare comment! by p3d0 (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:32AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Slashdotted (Score:2, Informative)

    by Pingular (670773) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:34AM (#7336285)
    I can't access the file, so here's a link to the .pdf, HB0457.pdf [state.mt.us].
    • Re:Slashdotted by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:56AM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Uh oh... (Score:4, Funny)

    by darnok (650458) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:41AM (#7336298)
    > the newly-formed Joint Committee on Communications
    > Security...

    It seems that whenever the term "security" is part of the name of a government body in the US, something bad is about to happen.

    • Re:Uh oh... by vidarh (Score:3) Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:47AM
    • Re:Uh oh... by SweenyTod (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:19AM
      • Re:Uh oh... by darnok (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:42AM
  • Firs Amendment advocates.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by t4b00 (715501) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:41AM (#7336299)
    'I stand here before you as representing the MPAA, one of the leading advocates of First Amendment rights...

    With Advocates like you, who needs adversaries?
  • Why black out? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Forge (2456) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:42AM (#7336301)
    (http://www.afflictedyard.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday January 26 2006, @03:07PM)
    The statement was true. The MPAA and RIAA for that mater promote 1st amendment rights. They advocate free speech for musicians and movie producers. They aggressively block attempts to sensor what they want to say.

    Sure they spend millions trying to fight our attempts to freely use the stuff we have bought. However they spend billions producing junk^M^M^M^M^art that aught to be sensord for the preservation of what little intellect remains on this planet.
  • That is fscking comedy. I'm seriously laughing out loud (which has nothing to do with that queer euphamism, "lol", I see so often just about everywhere nowadays).

    -bZj
  • we like the 1st amandment.. (Score:2, Funny)

    by gl4ss (559668) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:52AM (#7336326)
    (http://--/ | Last Journal: Monday December 09 2002, @05:12PM)
    ..as long nobody tells things about us or our tech that we don't like.

    and by the way, that korean manual on your vcr is a 'copyprotection device', so don't press that button with a red circle.
    -

  • Your Typical Tin-Foil Hat Rant (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Excen (686416) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:55AM (#7336331)
    (http://www.fark.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday September 13 2003, @11:46PM)
    In all seriousness, the people of Tennessee need to stomp this law into the dirt, before it can spread throughout the country. You may deny it, and say that only the hicks, to use a generalization that would only be relevant in NYC and LA, would approve of something like this, but it's only a matter of time before a whole bunch of states pass this kind of legislation.

    On a side note, the -IAA crowd couldn't buy off Congress all at once to get their way, so they're purchasing state legislatures one-at-a-time now? Why don't they just save up for a few months or years or whatever to get what they want? It's what the rest of us have to do!
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  • by Debian Troll's Best (678194) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:55AM (#7336334)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday January 28 2004, @09:49PM)
    In a previous job I was the system administrator for a small legal firm (taking care of their Debian-based legal document tracking and retrieval database server). Hence, I've been taking more than a passing interest in the proceedings of the various DMCA related court actions. If I'm understanding things correctly, then this latest case in Tennessee will be a real threat to open source software, and especially Debian.

    The thing with the DMCA is that it's all about trying to thwart people from cracking copy protection mechanisms. And a key step in the process of breaking protection is its eventual transmission from its original source to its eventual destination. IANAL, but from my readings, the DMCA will be coming down as hard on mechanisms which facilitate the transmission of protected materials as much as the mechanisms which are used to circumvent that protection in the first place. Now, let me describe to you the perfect DMCA-circumvention transport tool. It's simple to use. It moves data (software especially) with a minimum of fuss. It can check for differences between the source and the sink, and make appropriate changes to what's being grabbed. And you can use it to upgrade Debian.

    Yep, it's apt-get I'm talking about. This is something which has started to get some serious consideration on the Debian mailing lists. What if apt-get is in contravention of the DMCA? What is apt-get is considered to be a tool for the transmission, installing and dist upgrading of pirated/cracked data protected under the DMCA? It's something which is keeping people like Ian Murdoch, Bruce Perens and Joel 'Espy' Klecker up late at night talking with their lawyers just in case the worst does happen.

    So fellow apt-get users...please take a moment to consider the precarious position we are all in as a result of this DMCA madness. Write your local congressman. They need to know how evil the DMCA is. And send them a Debian CD-ROM while you're at it...maybe we can win over some Windows users in the process!

    apt-get peace out, comrades!

  • Excuse me???? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rock_climbing_guy (630276) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @04:59AM (#7336345)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday October 22 2003, @03:09AM)
    I started reading this and the following statement caught my attention:

    She then introduced the next two speakers, who she said "speak around the country on this specific piece of legislation." Senator Trail asked her why we needed this legislation at all since we already had laws that made cable theft illegal. She stated that the existing law only covers analog, not digital cable theft--giving the impression that, without this new bill, digital cable theft is legal. In responding to Senator Trail's continuing questions about this, she also admitted that the primary goal of the new legislation was getting stronger civil penalties.

    Are they actually claiming that it's legal to steal cable TV if the cable is digital?????? WTF???????

  • Well these things happen. (Score:2, Funny)

    by barcodez (580516) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:01AM (#7336350)
    This is what happens when you don't democratically elect a leader.
    • Re:Well these things happen. by Glock27 (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:25AM
    • Wrong Statement (Score:4, Insightful)

      I'm sorry, but this have nothing to do with the president (we all know who we are all talking about). This is about the faillings of this so called democratic govenment.

      In a democratic government we have people electing their representatives so they can have their interests defended and laws supporting their needs and opinions. The way US government is organized it just doesn't happen this way.

      The legislative is mostly supported by huge corporations that use their power and money to buy the ones that was supposed to defend the people interests.

      And what happens then? Then we have draconian laws that protect most corporations, harming just a few of them, aproved, even if them simply don't bring any good to the people. That's the case of DMCA, for examplo.

      What can be done? We can try changing the way we vote, and the way we participate, avoiding being confused and manipulated by huge organizations and voting in politicians that really represent us.

      IMO we need even more. Politicians should not be allowed to be paid by corporations. Corporations should not even participate in politcs decisions. Politics campains should be maid on the streets, squares, not on TV. We should be able to contact in person our representatives.

      Will that be true someday?

      [ Parent ]
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  • by tetrahedrassface (675645) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:20AM (#7336380)
    I live in Chattanooga TN and I can tell you that most people dont know that this is even going on. Hell, Tennessee has astronomical rates on T1 lines and we wonder why we dont have more computer industry. The truth is that our politicians don't want us to know that in the name of freedom our real freedoms are being taken away. I love Tennessee, especially Chatt, but this just goes to show you how stupid our poiliticians are. In fact after reading the bill, it seems that only coorportations are having their rights protected. I understand not breaking the law and i dont, but it seems like this bill will be abused.
  • Proving Damages and Loss (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Slur (61510) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @05:59AM (#7336430)
    (http://thinkyhead.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday October 28 2004, @04:32AM)
    In the world of electronic data transmission the notion of theft is much blurrier than it used to be. A company that sold onions could point to an onion thief and say "he stole seven onions so we want seven equivalent onions as a remedy." They could easily prove damages because they have physical goods on hand.

    The issue becomes blurrier in the case where - at the end of their season - the onion company ends up with a lot of rotten onions that they can't sell. They cannot claim unequivocally that the individual onion thief caused them any damage. They would have to know whether the onion thief would have bought the onions he stole, or whether those seven onions would have rotted with the rest.

    In the case of cable tv or music downloads, it seems to me that a company has to be able to show that a given individual thief would have bought the item in question.

    In other words, a million dollars in "theft" probably only amounts to a thousand dollars in actual damages. And that's a generous estimate.

    Obviously companies have to sustain themselves somehow. However, it ought to be done in ways that make creative use of the newest technologies. It ought to be done through adaptation, not through shortsighted legal scheming.

    If I were the President of Show Business I'd tell the music and movie folks to suck it up and send the lawyers home. The present may seem scary, but there's no need to panic and start making kooky demands. In the longer view this is just a little bump in the road.
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  • Flat-rate charging the culprit? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Phil Karn (14620) <karn@kELIOTa9q.net minus poet> on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:11AM (#7336446)
    (http://www.ka9q.net/)
    Seems to me the cable companies and telcos want this bill mainly to protect a fundamentally flawed business model -- the flat rate broadband plan.

    Yes, residential customers really like flat rate plans because they know exactly how much they'll spend every month. But they have a Faustian downside: they give the carriers an excuse to severely limit and control how you use the service. Just as all-you-can-eat cafeterias have rules that regular restaurants do not (e.g., against sharing food or taking it home) most flat-rate broadband plans prohibit connection sharing, business use, running servers, etc.

    If the carriers instead charged by usage for the shared part of their network, then they would have far less of an arguable case (i.e., none whatsoever) for claiming that a NAT box, even if you use it to provide service to your neighbor, constitutes "theft of service". If you pay for those bits, they're clearly yours to give away.

    I know it's unpopular to argue for usage-based billing. But if I'm forced to choose (and I think I will be) between flat rate plans with lots of heavy-handed restrictions and a pay-as-you-go plan with no restrictions at all, I know what I'd do.

    Groups like those opposing the Tennessee bill should educate their lawmakers that it's simply not their job to protect unsustainable business models. Although broadband service is frequently provided over cable TV facilities, it is nothing like cable TV. With usage-based billing, even your average legislator might see how analogies between NAT boxes, which support a two-way telecommunications service, and illegal cable descramblers, which gain access to a one-way broadcast service, simply don't apply.

    Imagine also the public outrage that would finally be directed against Microsoft when end-users have to pay for all the traffic generated by their worm-infested machines. Not only might that create an incentive to get such machines quickly off the net, we just might see a lot of ordinary Joes defenestrating their copies of Windows. Clearly a good thing.

    Even the MPAA and RIAA couldn't complain, since usage-sensitive billing would discourage file sharing. (We don't have to tell them that everyone would simply revert to the way music was widely pirated long before the Internet: by exchanging physical media.)

    Oh, and the spammers would have to pay more, too. Wouldn't that alone make it worthwhile?

  • Edmund.. (Score:1)

    by Atescha (602547) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:39AM (#7336489)
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Somehow, this came to mind after reading the first comment :)
    • Re:Edmund.. by Overzeetop (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:39AM
      • Re:Edmund.. by Overzeetop (Score:2) Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:45AM
  • by Aldric (642394) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @06:50AM (#7336513)
    But I'm starting to think that big corporations will only stop stamping on peoples rights when top executives start getting shot by the people they are screwing over.
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  • I've already said it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pan T. Hose (707794) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:01AM (#7336751)
    (http://plato.stanford.edu/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 15 2005, @10:46AM)
    I've already said it countless times, but if you haven't already read The Right to Read [gnu.org], do it now while you still have the right to do it. From what I witness it might change in the near future. That's funny that we all were laughing out loud at Richard when he wrote his "stupid dystopian science fiction which will never happen outside of a paranoid mind foolishly guarded with a tinfoil hat" and at the same time we all kept allowing it to slowly happen. And who looks like a fool now? Sadly, not Richard but us. It certainly doesn't make me feel proud at all. The DMCA is the fruit of our own inaction, our own inertia, our own plain stupidity. We all have to remember that. We have to take the responsibility if we ever want to overthrow the law system we don't agree with. The DMCA was introduced democratically and it can be fought only democratically, where everyone takes the responsibility for the will of the majority. It is a great time to renew our EFF memberships [eff.org] because that is our freedom at risk.
  • Today is a good day... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BigBir3d (454486) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:12AM (#7336779)
    (Last Journal: Sunday October 09 2005, @12:15AM)
    ...to be proud that I was born in Knoxville.

    I guess hicks don't like oppressive legislation, regardless of it's focus.
  • the important question here is... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jonwil (467024) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:21AM (#7336822)
    Just what constitutes a "communications service".
    For example, does the "communications service" end at your cable/DSL/dialup modem?
    Or does it end at your web-browser?
    Or what?

    If we cant get these new bills overturned completly, we should push for clear definitions of just what a "communications service" is to be enshrined into the bills. That way, they can only be applied in the ways that the law-makers intend.

    My take on why these bills are being pushed for:
    1.to enable companies providing "communications services" (e.g. cable providers, telcos etc) to go after people who are stealing service (e.g. cable pirates, phone phreakers etc)
    2.to enable those same providers to have greater controlls over the networks (for example, cable companies can make it illegal to plug digital recorders into their networks and record stuff)
  • by apexchin (622309) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @08:39AM (#7336913)
    As a TN resident, I was rather surprised to learn of a "Super DCMA" bill; this is the first I've heard of it.

    Now, I just skimmed down through the bill itself (which I doubt many else here have done), and I'm wondering what specific provisions are objectionable. This bill seems to be aimed squarely at those who pirate satellite, cable, and/or telephone services and those who sell or make the equipment enabling such activities. Frankly, I don't have much of a problem with that.

    The only objectionably provision I see in the bill is the one which states that to "Knowingly assist others in committing any of the acts prohibited by this section." Under the most liberal interpretation, this can be construed as a DCMA-style anti-free-speech provisions, but I doubt very seriously future case law will show it as such.

    I saw nothing at all regarding copyrights, patents, and p2p. So again, I ask, what am I missing?

    Jeff

    • Re:Someone clue me in... by DavidH_Mphs (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @09:58AM
    • Re:Someone clue me in... by theFreeRadical (Score:1) Wednesday October 29 2003, @10:21AM
    • Re:Someone clue me in... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Motherfucking Shit (636021) on Wednesday October 29 2003, @02:29PM (#7340230)
      (http://shaunc.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday June 18 2005, @01:47AM)
      How about this, right at the top of the bill:
      (a) It is an offense for any person knowingly to:


      (1) Possess, use, make, develop, assemble, sell, distribute, lease, license, transfer, import into this state or offer, promote, or advertise any unlawful communication device:

      (A) For the unauthorized acquisition or theft of any communication service or to receive, intercept, disrupt, transmit, re-transmit, decrypt, acquire, or facilitate the receipt, interception, disruption, transmission, re-transmission, decryption, or acquisition of any communication service without the express consent or express authorization of the commun