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MIT's New Music Sharing Network
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Oct 27, 2003 08:00 AM
from the share-the-music dept.
from the share-the-music dept.
tessaiga writes "The New York Times has an article about a new project at MIT to replace music file sharing over P2P with sharing over cable TV (reg free link). The Library Access To Music Project relies on the more relaxed copyright restrictions on analog transmission formats like cable. From the article: "M.I.T. students, faculty and staff can choose from 16 channels of music and can schedule 80-minute blocks of time to control a channel. The high-tech D.J. can select, rewind or fast-forward the songs via an Internet-based control panel. Mr. Winstein and Mr. Mandel created the collection of CD's after polling students." The article goes on to point out that this is (hopefully) legal under current laws because MIT already has a blanket license to broadcast music over analog media, and recording songs played over this system "would be no different from recording songs from conventional FM broadcasts"."
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God help them! (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Monday August 22 2005, @11:02AM)
-
That's all nice and well (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.syswear.com/)
Maybe i'm just cynical.
Re:That's all nice and well (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.ceyah.org/~jandrese/ | Last Journal: Thursday September 13, @11:11AM)
This MIT system seems to put a lot of power in the hands of the students, which is just the sort of thing the RIAA hates.
Re:That's all nice and well (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.oscillatory.org)
Some of these are the kinds of restrictions that are being imposed on licensed webcasters, including e.g. webcast from a college radio station
Broadcast radio has no such restrictions except as self-imposed by bad corporate radio
Similar to the streaming fees? (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.carotids.com/)
Anybody remember this?
Re:That's all nice and well (Score:5, Interesting)
However, this may pose a political problem. RIAA's argument is that they are not trying to retract existing privileges, such as recording music off the radio. Rather, they argue, the ability of digital technology to make "perfect" copies is a unique threat that must be combatted with restrictions specifically directed to the digital format. So to go after MIT, they basically have to admit that this argument is basically a load of crap, and that they are trying to impose new restrictions on what people can do with broadcast music. Of course, the reality is that nobody but a minority of audiophiles cares about "perfect" copies, and they aren't interested in trading compressed formats like mp3, anyway. The MIT initiative offers what the average student really wants--the ability to select the music they want.
Scratch ? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://linuxette.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 26 2005, @07:00AM)
Can he do it fast enough to reproduce the vinyl scratch effect ?
the sue cycle (Score:1, Interesting)
and you rip off the mask... (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft Funded (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.carotids.com/)
LAMP is funded by the iCampus Alliance (MIT/Microsoft Research)
http://lamp.mit.edu [mit.edu]
Okay, slashdot... does Microsoft get any props here?
(oh, sh!t, there goes my Karma.)
Davak
Re:Microsoft Funded (Score:4, Informative)
Maan
Re:Microsoft Funded (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, no matter how it appears, certainly if you ask MS or MIT they will tell you there is a grand plan - for sure. But relax, Microsoft have been throwing funding at universities for 'wired campus' style projects on a regular basis as far as I know, and as yet it has met with limited success from their perspective. They would love to own the education market, of course. They just haven't got a decent grip on it yet, and not for lack of trying.
You have to realise that research and industrial funding is an uneasy alliance at best. Good researchers attract funding whilst controlling the conditions under which it is given; bad researchers accept funding that comes with strings. In this case, MIT are, I suspect, in the driver's seat. This makes them relatively unusual; many researchers are rather naive and, on receipt of a few flattering comments and hints of 'long term collaborations', 'special relationships' or similar, will immediately go for it no matter what the conditions. Some even believe that they are the ones doing the 'using'. Having worked for one of these types, I can assure you that these researchers are wrong (do I sound disillusioned? Oh well).
It's worth keeping your eyes open, anyway; if you see anything using tablet PCs, MS DRM, heavy use of
Don't know if that helps.
they'll use it (Score:2, Interesting)
(http://www.apreche.net/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 08 2005, @11:17PM)
I would use it to record all the songs I didn't already have on mp3. And for all the songs I couldn't get through this system, I would still hit the p2p. I don't supposed they have Super Eurobeat [avexnet.or.jp] or garage bands [cdbaby.com] music do they? No? The store doesn't either? Downloads for me.
Way to go. Not. (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Tuesday September 06 2005, @12:39PM)
The way to combat RIAA, etc isn't by shouting from the rooftops that you'll pirate/whatever you want to call it their music from now till doomsday. The way to combat them is by supporting non-RIAA artists, by supporting innovative legitimate music-buying options such as the Apple iTunes store, by buying second-hand CDs, etc.
Giving someone the very ammunition that they need to shoot you down is suicide. Perhaps when you graduate to the real world you'll learn that lesson.
Re:Way to go. Not. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Way to go. Not. (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Tuesday September 06 2005, @12:39PM)
If in twelve months time, 10, 15 or even 20 percent (to use arbitrary figures off the top of my head) of the music being bought by 10-25 year-olds is through online buy-just-what-you-want stores, then that'll be a very big wake-up call to RIAA and the major labels.
In that scenario (which most probably happen eventually), the big boys will have to re-evaluate how they package, present and sell music on a wider scale. Right now, they probably look at iTunes as in interesting exercise, just as IBM once looked at PC clones in the same way. But sooner or later, just like IBM and those clones, RIAA et al will have to embrace a future that's not entirely of their making.
And the less involvement that RIAA has in the music industry of the future, the better for us all, regardless of where we live and/or our musical tastes.
Re:Way to go. Not. (Score:4, Informative)
(http://blogs.ckdhr.com/dag/)
This is not some random student project. MIT has intellectual property lawyers.
Music need not be purchased to be heard. MIT has paid ASCAP et al for blanket transmission licenses, like radio stations use. (BTW, the campus radio station, WMBR, used to be called the "Tech Broadcasting System" or WTBS, until some guy in Atlanta bought the call letters from them...now it stands for Walker Memorial Basement Radio, for its location.)
See their FAQ [mit.edu], particularly the questions "Is this really legal? How?" and "Did you have lawyers look at this?"
MIT likes Britney (Score:4, Funny)
boston.com link: no reg req (Score:3, Informative)
we all know how lawmaking in the US works, right? (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.grep.be/)
If this becomes popular, my bet is that the RIAA will buy themselves a law which will outlaw this. If it indeed is legal right now, that is...
Won't last long (Score:3, Insightful)
Analog file sharing. (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.progressivepenguin.ru/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 22 2007, @07:49PM)
This Time Next Week... (Score:2, Funny)
(Last Journal: Friday November 30, @03:32PM)
*sigh*
Analogue vs Digital (Score:5, Informative)
(In the uk at least, if you wish to broadcast music, there are controls on how many tracks from one album / label etc you can broadcast in a set period of time. )
great idea if it's legal though.
All we need now (Score:1, Flamebait)
So it's a free version of this? (Score:2, Interesting)
MIT and Pirated Files? (Score:1)
It won't stay free for long. (Score:3, Insightful)
stealing or a thesis? (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.areyoueye.net/)
TiVo to the iPod (Score:2, Funny)
Hell's frozen over, folks. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hell's frozen over, folks. (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Tuesday June 27 2006, @08:05AM)
I listened to this story on NPR this morning, and when they asked the guy what type of music he liked, he said... (drumroll please) he was a big fan of show tunes. I think I can safely say that he probably isn't interested in some sexually deprived (or depraved for that matter) freshman girl. He's probably more interested in her brother.
No need to register (Score:2)
You
So analog is allowed? (Score:1)
Just watch your ethernet cabling with an oscilloscope while pumping mp3's over the net.
Looks like analog signals to me.
Hey! (Score:1)
(http://www.leprechaun.ca/)
Other side of Cambridge, MA (Score:1, Funny)
Why you people just dont get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
(the term "bright lining" means doing some activity with a full knowledge of where the law or regulation is and doing something right up to this regulation, this living up to the letter of the law, though, the implication is, not the spirit.)
Copyright is a socially constructed concept. Basically, copyrightholders are entitled to a monopoly of sorts for a limited time on their work. most people agree that the primary reason for this is to encourage more creation of works.
When people talk in terms of "it's legally okay to copy a song from the radio" or "it's legally okay to copy three pages, but not the whole book", then they are basically referring to PRAGMATIC copyright interpreations and rulings based on past technological and social circumstance. as technology and social circumstance change, it may become necessary to change (usually tighten) what is allowed in order to best preserve the spirit and intention of copyright, which, again, is to encourage authors.
here's a really obvious sign of when the spirit of copyright is broken--i call it the "extrapolation" argument. basically, somebody takes an existing interpretation and tries to "scale it up":
- sharing music with your kid sister is ok, so sharing music with everybody's kid sister is (Napster)
- photocopying one page is ok, so let's set up a distributed system via amazon's new full-text thing by which everybody downloads one page and somehow they are combined again (slashdot/amazon)
- MIT has a blanket license for analog music / copying music from existing analog sources of music is ok (radio - unscheduled recordings, includes ads, not complete songs), so let's play a clever trick by which people can get whatever they want in a high quality, but analog format (MIT)
All three of these will work, in the short term. And all three will generate stricter interpretations and a clamp-down, because they are so clearly against the spirit of the socially beneficial copyright law (oh, shut up already, completely-anti-copyright anarcho-libertarians - go and do a little historical research about every attempt to do away with copyrights and patents completely). The end result of this will be stricted interpretations and more bitching and whining on slashdot. What is the root cause of this? The evil RIAA and MPAA? Yes, they occasionally go overboard (the mickey mouse extension act is pretty egregious), but generally they are in the right.The root cause is those who think that they're being clever by bright-lining copyright interpretations without realizing that they are interpretations that are subject to reasonable modification as circumstances warrant, not god-given cast-in-stone truths. or, in other words, more technological sense than social understanding.
Disagree? reply, not mod down.
Re:Why you people just dont get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
"It's almost an act of performance art," Mr. Zittrain said. Mr. Winstein, he said, has "arrayed the gerbils under the hood so it appears to meet the statutory requirement" - and has shown how badly the system of copyright needs sensible revamping.
My interpretation of this is that the system the MIT guys have developed is supposed to demonstrate that you can build a feasible, centralized, (somewhat) random-access music distribution system within the framework of existing law. You can do this using technical slight-of-hand and the particular legal circumstances regarding analog transmissions.
When people realize that you can have this almost-Napster legally, which provides a similar service, the point is to realize that the new laws are broken. There's a huge distinction, technically, between a P2P network and this project... however to an end-user the effect is much the same - you can dial up some music, when you want, from a big selection, somewhere else. So really - what's the point in making a distinction legally between analog and digital transmission rights, if you can accomplish much the same thing with either?
Maybe I'm off-base but that's what I got out of it.
By the way, when you say:
The evil RIAA and MPAA? Yes, they occasionally go overboard (the mickey mouse extension act is pretty egregious), but generally they are in the right.
In the right legally, perhaps. Morally and logically, not so much.
Here's what their PDF says about sound quality. (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Friday April 04 2003, @12:49AM)
Hmm. I love 8 bit mods, but I doubt this system sounds too hot. It also sounded like it was mono at this point. If that was the case, I'd say the students at MIT would be better off just downloading stuff that is high quality and freely available without restrictions. There's plenty of it.
On the other hand, I check Kazaa the other day and I noticed that there's still about four million users. Maybe they rigged up the counter.
Almost there... (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Of course, if you want digital quality, that will still cost you $10 per month.
I'm still at a loss (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://forums.boiledfrog.us/ | Last Journal: Friday February 21 2003, @01:08PM)
Different from FM (Score:1, Insightful)
This is precisely how it is different from an FM broadcast. This is the provision that the copyright lawyers will go after.
LAMP! (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Thursday December 08 2005, @04:33PM)
But LAMP is Linux Apache Mysql {Perl, Python, Php}
eg http://www.onlamp.com/
They call that music sharing? (Score:1)
(http://bas.scheffers.net)
Of course it is legal, there is no law stopping radio/TV stations allowing anyone they choose to pick what to play and this is no different.
Joint project with law school? (Score:2)
An implication that this brings up... (Score:1)
Since all radio stations are now licensed for analog broadcast of MPAA materials under ASCAP/BMI/SESAC (the major artist licensing groups that make up MPAA, along with the recording industry itself), does this not mean that all stations will now have to apply for and pay to get license/permission to play materials in digital formats?
This could wipe out a lot of small stations, both commercial and non-commercial, and allow the megacorps like Clear Channel to control all such media, and essentially censor by exclusion any music that they deem to be "unfriendly".
---
A whole lot of work for the same thing (Score:2)
(http://www.furtivecode.com/)
a similar internet-based application (Score:1)
(http://www.boojit.com/)
Drop me a line if you want a temporary login to try the system out...
DaC
Misleading Headline (Score:1)
Obligatory link (Score:3, Funny)
Hurray for fair use (Score:2, Insightful)
If I've got a party with 150 people at it, I'm not required to pay royalties.
am I missing something??? (Score:2, Interesting)
How is this a good thing? (Score:2, Interesting)
And this is supposed to be a good thing?
No wonder Microsoft is funding the research... creating "innovations" that make people's lives worse instead of better seems to be their specialty.
The only "benefit" I can see from the MIT system over P2P file sharing is that the MIT system allows the RIAA executives to continue to harvest extreme wealth from the creativity of underpaid artists and the greed of contribution-hungry politician.
Instead of creating technical kludges that make our lives worse instead of better, would it not be better to junk the DMCA and other obsolete copyright laws bought and paid for by the RIAA and friends?
Great! (Score:1)
(http://www.opentorrent.org/)
Moving things around is not going to hinder the massively funded music and movie industries. If anything this will close the noose that much tighter around our technology creativity and what is viewed as fair use.
I would expect more and REAL projects from MIT.
Grammar Nazi to the Rescue! (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Friday August 29 2003, @12:02AM)
Mr. Winstein said that the equipment cost about $10,000, and the music, which was bought through a company that provides music on hard drives for the radio industry, for about $25,000.
Nice job, NY Times.
Good idea, but solves nothing (Score:2)
(http://belgand.livejournal.com/)
Of course, this won't do a damn thing about piracy. I have very little choice in what to listen to, I must rely entirely on what they chose, I need a tv and cable (not certain if that's standard for students or not) when more students are likely to have a computer than a tv, and I sure as hell can't put it on my iPod and listen to on my way to class.
All they've really done is make a newer, more user-controlled campus radio station. Sure, 10 points for improving slightly on an old idea (at least, for some) but absolutely zero for doing anything about kids who can't be bothered to respect people's intellectual property rights.
Re:Good Luck.. Risky venture (Score:4, Insightful)
What the hell are you rambling about?
Part of the legal power that is being exerted is the very fact that its NOT analog signals..
LAMP broadcasts analog signals over cable, as permitted by MIT's licenses with ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.
Since they are moving the audio do digital format, they potentially are asking for trouble.
That's backwards. Audio from CD's, which are digital, is being broadcast as analog, just like any radio station does.
Plus AFAIK a license to broadcast analog doesn't automatically give you a license to broadcast digital ( it makes sense that you should be able too, but when does law have to make sense? )
The audio is not being broadcast digitally.
Re:A rose by any other name... (Score:1)